Fire Paul Westphal
- Thread starter TheWileyVet
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Get him outta here.
I'm so happy to have stumbled upon this site, where there are people who are thinking what I have been thinking. I have found it increasingly difficult to even watch the Kings this year, and it's because I just want to scream at the television the entire time, all because of the unfathomable rotations and substitutions that Paul Westphal has been making.
This is what I wrote to Kings.com a day or two ago:
Hey, not sure if this is the proper forum or not, but I just have a question for any other Kings fans/writers/whoever.
I have been ridiculously confused and frustrated by Westphal's decisions/substitutions... over the course of this young season. I understand that we are still rebuilding, but if the team really wants to be taken seriously as a playoff contender again, why in the world is he playing ALL TWELVE MEN? No team does that. How can any player develop any sort of rhythm in a game when their minutes are so sporadic and spread around? How can any of our mainstays develop on court chemistry with each other when every single bench player plays minutes? In our recent inexcusable home loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves, why the hell is Antoine Wright playing signifigant minutes in the 4th quarter of a game that we're trying to play catch up in? He had been on the bench the entire game. Why, when we were down double digits in that same 4th quarter, is Jason Thompson playing the 3 spot, when we desperately needed 3 point shooters on the floor? Why is Jason Thompson EVER playing the 3 spot? In the loss against the Lakers, Luther Head was left in the game for FAR too long in the 4th quarter, despite the fact that his 3 point shots (his supposed specialty) were barely even grazing the rim, and on the defensive end he was covering KOBE BRYANT IN SINGLE COVERAGE. Really? Luther Head is the best defensive specialist we can put on the greatest player of this era in the decisive final quarter of a close divisional game? Please.
I have liked Paul Westphal so far, but this is a joke. At what point do we start acknowledging that he may not be the right man for this job? Or at least get Petrie or the Maloofs to get in his ear and tell him to stop treating his active roster like it's a god damned All Star game, with everyone needing their share of minutes. Pick your starters (Beno, Tyreke, Omri, Landry, Dalembert) and pick your bench (JT, Demarcus, Garcia) and stick with it. Otherwise, we are certain to just keep losing, and our star rookies/sophomores will be counting the days until they will be free agents.
Right?
I'm so happy to have stumbled upon this site, where there are people who are thinking what I have been thinking. I have found it increasingly difficult to even watch the Kings this year, and it's because I just want to scream at the television the entire time, all because of the unfathomable rotations and substitutions that Paul Westphal has been making.
This is what I wrote to Kings.com a day or two ago:
Hey, not sure if this is the proper forum or not, but I just have a question for any other Kings fans/writers/whoever.
I have been ridiculously confused and frustrated by Westphal's decisions/substitutions... over the course of this young season. I understand that we are still rebuilding, but if the team really wants to be taken seriously as a playoff contender again, why in the world is he playing ALL TWELVE MEN? No team does that. How can any player develop any sort of rhythm in a game when their minutes are so sporadic and spread around? How can any of our mainstays develop on court chemistry with each other when every single bench player plays minutes? In our recent inexcusable home loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves, why the hell is Antoine Wright playing signifigant minutes in the 4th quarter of a game that we're trying to play catch up in? He had been on the bench the entire game. Why, when we were down double digits in that same 4th quarter, is Jason Thompson playing the 3 spot, when we desperately needed 3 point shooters on the floor? Why is Jason Thompson EVER playing the 3 spot? In the loss against the Lakers, Luther Head was left in the game for FAR too long in the 4th quarter, despite the fact that his 3 point shots (his supposed specialty) were barely even grazing the rim, and on the defensive end he was covering KOBE BRYANT IN SINGLE COVERAGE. Really? Luther Head is the best defensive specialist we can put on the greatest player of this era in the decisive final quarter of a close divisional game? Please.
I have liked Paul Westphal so far, but this is a joke. At what point do we start acknowledging that he may not be the right man for this job? Or at least get Petrie or the Maloofs to get in his ear and tell him to stop treating his active roster like it's a god damned All Star game, with everyone needing their share of minutes. Pick your starters (Beno, Tyreke, Omri, Landry, Dalembert) and pick your bench (JT, Demarcus, Garcia) and stick with it. Otherwise, we are certain to just keep losing, and our star rookies/sophomores will be counting the days until they will be free agents.
Right?
Like many of us, we have come to the point where we are starting to get fed up with what Coach Westphal is doing with this team and it's players. I don't think this coach is the proper coach for this team when we are going to be contending again, but for now, we aren't really going to find anything better atleast for the time being. I'm not going to say fire him just yet, let's wait and see how we do and if we improve at all in rotation/starting line ups come All-Star break. If by then we see the same ol' head scratching rotations and lack of effective plays, then we can start discussing maybe it's time for a change.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I have never called Westphal intelligent. Not saying he's not! But I certainly criticized him last year with his constantly changing rotations and starting lineups. Having said that, I cut him some slack because of not have enough quality frontcourt players. Not so this year, so I expected to see more of a defined role for all the players. Insead I see Thompson being jerked all over the place, and some of the strangest rotation decisions I've ever seen in my 50 plus years of watching basketball. I'm not ready to fire him just yet, but I'm certainly upset with him.
Westphal, with his constant tinkering, is on the verge of losing this team. The Kings are a very young team with players that need to have some structure/consistency, in terms of minutes and positions, in order to develop. Instead, we have a head coach that doesn't know whether JT is a PF or a SF, whether Donte is a player who earned the starting SF position in Camp (at least that's what Westphal proclaimed) or if he's the 12th man on the team.
We all put up with this last year from Westphal, and chalked it up to him learning to push the right buttons with a new team. Remember how he started Desmond Mason and Sean May at the beginning of last year? Only to see Mason cut a few games later. Is he that bad at evaluating his talent? That at one point he will think that someone is good enough to start, only to find out a few games later that he shouldn't even be on the team or receive any minutes?
And then on to JT, who I believe is a good example to our younger players with his effort and determination, who gets yanked around. In the Jason Jones article today, Westphal says "he likes Thompson a lot". Since when does that translate into DNP-CD? I just don't get it.....
Darnell Jackson was allowed to brick jumper after jumper against Phoenix, yet JT couldn't even get a single minute to come in and see if he can provide a spark.
Yes, as other posters have pointed out, it's only 8 games into the season. However, this early part of the season is the softest part of our schedule. If we can't win in this stretch (by winning I mean beat teams like Minnesota and Memphis at home), we are not going to win more then 25 games this year. If you think attendance is bad now, wait till they lose a few more home games to bad teams.
The team is going through the motions, and is on edge. They don't have the structure (consistent rotations, consistent postions) that they need at this early stage in their careers. In addition, they have 0 veterans that can be looked up to. Dalembert? uhh no... Garcia? noooo
This my friends is how you lose a team......
We all put up with this last year from Westphal, and chalked it up to him learning to push the right buttons with a new team. Remember how he started Desmond Mason and Sean May at the beginning of last year? Only to see Mason cut a few games later. Is he that bad at evaluating his talent? That at one point he will think that someone is good enough to start, only to find out a few games later that he shouldn't even be on the team or receive any minutes?
And then on to JT, who I believe is a good example to our younger players with his effort and determination, who gets yanked around. In the Jason Jones article today, Westphal says "he likes Thompson a lot". Since when does that translate into DNP-CD? I just don't get it.....
Darnell Jackson was allowed to brick jumper after jumper against Phoenix, yet JT couldn't even get a single minute to come in and see if he can provide a spark.
Yes, as other posters have pointed out, it's only 8 games into the season. However, this early part of the season is the softest part of our schedule. If we can't win in this stretch (by winning I mean beat teams like Minnesota and Memphis at home), we are not going to win more then 25 games this year. If you think attendance is bad now, wait till they lose a few more home games to bad teams.
The team is going through the motions, and is on edge. They don't have the structure (consistent rotations, consistent postions) that they need at this early stage in their careers. In addition, they have 0 veterans that can be looked up to. Dalembert? uhh no... Garcia? noooo
This my friends is how you lose a team......
PW explained exactly why JT didn;t make it into the lineup against the Suns. Apparently you didn;t read his answer to that question.
Darnell got 4 offensive rebounds in 16 minutes against the Suns and only commited one foul- that's why he played. You're crucifying the guy for missing 3 jumpers (which had been VERY consistent and needed this year up to then).
JT is not playing as well as Darnell this year. Have you watched the games, or just making up your own theories about the coach?
Darnell got 4 offensive rebounds in 16 minutes against the Suns and only commited one foul- that's why he played. You're crucifying the guy for missing 3 jumpers (which had been VERY consistent and needed this year up to then).
JT is not playing as well as Darnell this year. Have you watched the games, or just making up your own theories about the coach?
I agree...I had this problem with Reggie Theus and his man crush on Mikki Moore. Anyway, Play the guys in their natural position (unless the player can play well in the other position), make a offense that works, and use players to their ability. Landry is a energy guy - use him off the bench. Get Donte in the game - especially when the guys "infront" of him aren't playing well.
I don't have a problem with the coach because I think it would be stupid to fire him. But he does need to work on a few things.
I don't have a problem with the coach because I think it would be stupid to fire him. But he does need to work on a few things.
The problem I have with Westphal right now is that he's making moves which seem counterproductive to the future development of the team. A big reason why Westphal was such a breath of fresh air last year is that, unlike his predecessors, he played the guys who needed to be played. Tyreke, Beno, Thompson, Casspi, Greene, Hawes -- all of them needed to play and get better since they represent our biggest roster assets and all of them got big minutes last year. Out of last season we ended up with another high draft pick and a favorable trade with Hawes and Nocioni. Beno recovered enough value that his contract no longer looks like an albatross. All of this led some of us to believe things were at least heading on the right track for once. We got younger and more talented and our core players were starting to develop some chemistry together.
So then this year starts and Greene is sent to the bench after one game as the starter (hardly a fair trial run) and remains buried there. Meanwhile our young PF who started most of last season, Jason Thompson, is averaging 15 minutes a game and spends a large chunk of it out of position at SF. Our star PG is playing most of his minutes at SG and guarding the other team's leading scorer for large stretches of the game. And two minimum contract roster-fillers, Luther Head and Darnell Jackson, have claimed big roles in the rotation at the expense of Greene and Thompson who should be blossoming right now in their third season but aren't even getting to play. That's a lot of confusing roster decisions and it's far too early in the season to panic and blow it up, but there is reason to be concerned. I don't think Westphal should be fired, certainly not with two more seasons on his contract, but his favorability rating is dropping rapidly right now and I'm starting to wonder if he should continue to be the coach of this team in two years. There's still plenty of time to turn it around of course.
So then this year starts and Greene is sent to the bench after one game as the starter (hardly a fair trial run) and remains buried there. Meanwhile our young PF who started most of last season, Jason Thompson, is averaging 15 minutes a game and spends a large chunk of it out of position at SF. Our star PG is playing most of his minutes at SG and guarding the other team's leading scorer for large stretches of the game. And two minimum contract roster-fillers, Luther Head and Darnell Jackson, have claimed big roles in the rotation at the expense of Greene and Thompson who should be blossoming right now in their third season but aren't even getting to play. That's a lot of confusing roster decisions and it's far too early in the season to panic and blow it up, but there is reason to be concerned. I don't think Westphal should be fired, certainly not with two more seasons on his contract, but his favorability rating is dropping rapidly right now and I'm starting to wonder if he should continue to be the coach of this team in two years. There's still plenty of time to turn it around of course.
Was doing a little research on Westphal when I stumbled across some info on another fourm. Interesting stuff. Westphal inherited the head coaching job from Cotton Fitzsimmons who moved into the front office of the Suns. In his first year he took them to the finals where they lost in 6 games. They made the playoffs every year he was the head coach, but the team never made it back to the finals and the won/loss record slowly declined. After a bad start he was fired by Fitzsimmons, who move back into the head coaching positions. The average age of the team was 29 years of age, and included Charles Barkley and Danny Anige.
He coached highschool ball for two years before getting the head coaching job in Seattle after George Karl was fired. Once again he inherited a talented vetrean team and once again he took them to the playoffs every year he was there. But once again the win/loss record declined every year under him. Once again after a bad start he was fired. The average age of the team was 31 years of age, with no one on the entire team under 27 years of age.
He then landed the head coaching job at Pepperdine. He also inherited a good basketball team. The team fought for the conference title with Gonzaga and was awarded a berth in the NCAA tournament where they lost in the first round to Wake Forest. He coached the team for 5 years, but the team declined very quickly.
So what we can gleen from this is that Westphal is at least a decent coach with a talented and experienced team. We also know that he eventually wears out his welcome for some reason, even with an experienced team. Judging from his experience at Pepperdine, it appears he's not nearly as good with very young players. This is the part that concerns me, since the Kings are a very young team. Last year I had concerns about his rotations and constant tinkering with the starting lineup, but at least he was giving playing time to those players that we percieved as our core players. So I'm confused with just exactly he's trying to do so far this year. Thompson has gone from starter to averaging 14 minutes a game. Greene has gone from sometime starter and regular rotation player to a DNP position on the bench.
Yeah I know that one could argue that Greene deserves his fate for coming into camp out of shape. I can also agree that his minutes should be cut back until he gets back into shape. But to not play him at all, I don't get. I know that some have argued that Thompson has been inconsistent so far. Really! In his first five game he had two that were very good games and three where he couldn't get anything going. Let me see. Landry had 6 games in a row where he stunk up the place and last time I checked he was still getting his minutes. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander as they say.
I'll tell you one thing about young people. They know BS when they see it. They know when there's one set of rules for one person and another set for everyone else. If the one player is Michael Jordan, you can get away with it. Last time I checked there aren't any Jordan's on this team. At least not yet. If you want to let your point guard dribble the ball for 15 seconds of every shot clock, thats fine. If your OK with having a PF that has no idea of what the word pass means and basicly shoots the ball every time he touches it, that also fine. Thats what you decided and your the head coach. But don't go into the locker room at half time and call out Cousins for being selfish with the ball, especially when he only touched the ball a few times and was otherwise effective. And this isn't about Cousins, its about hypocrisy. Vetrean players have all seen it before and don't pay that much attention to it. But young players actually believe in the coach and trust him. They'll also turn on him in a heartbeat if they suspect he's BS ing them.
Westphal needs to revise his approach to his rotations and the way he distributes the minutes. One thing a coach needs is respect and in turn loyality. If Westphal loses the respect of the players he's done.
He coached highschool ball for two years before getting the head coaching job in Seattle after George Karl was fired. Once again he inherited a talented vetrean team and once again he took them to the playoffs every year he was there. But once again the win/loss record declined every year under him. Once again after a bad start he was fired. The average age of the team was 31 years of age, with no one on the entire team under 27 years of age.
He then landed the head coaching job at Pepperdine. He also inherited a good basketball team. The team fought for the conference title with Gonzaga and was awarded a berth in the NCAA tournament where they lost in the first round to Wake Forest. He coached the team for 5 years, but the team declined very quickly.
So what we can gleen from this is that Westphal is at least a decent coach with a talented and experienced team. We also know that he eventually wears out his welcome for some reason, even with an experienced team. Judging from his experience at Pepperdine, it appears he's not nearly as good with very young players. This is the part that concerns me, since the Kings are a very young team. Last year I had concerns about his rotations and constant tinkering with the starting lineup, but at least he was giving playing time to those players that we percieved as our core players. So I'm confused with just exactly he's trying to do so far this year. Thompson has gone from starter to averaging 14 minutes a game. Greene has gone from sometime starter and regular rotation player to a DNP position on the bench.
Yeah I know that one could argue that Greene deserves his fate for coming into camp out of shape. I can also agree that his minutes should be cut back until he gets back into shape. But to not play him at all, I don't get. I know that some have argued that Thompson has been inconsistent so far. Really! In his first five game he had two that were very good games and three where he couldn't get anything going. Let me see. Landry had 6 games in a row where he stunk up the place and last time I checked he was still getting his minutes. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander as they say.
I'll tell you one thing about young people. They know BS when they see it. They know when there's one set of rules for one person and another set for everyone else. If the one player is Michael Jordan, you can get away with it. Last time I checked there aren't any Jordan's on this team. At least not yet. If you want to let your point guard dribble the ball for 15 seconds of every shot clock, thats fine. If your OK with having a PF that has no idea of what the word pass means and basicly shoots the ball every time he touches it, that also fine. Thats what you decided and your the head coach. But don't go into the locker room at half time and call out Cousins for being selfish with the ball, especially when he only touched the ball a few times and was otherwise effective. And this isn't about Cousins, its about hypocrisy. Vetrean players have all seen it before and don't pay that much attention to it. But young players actually believe in the coach and trust him. They'll also turn on him in a heartbeat if they suspect he's BS ing them.
Westphal needs to revise his approach to his rotations and the way he distributes the minutes. One thing a coach needs is respect and in turn loyality. If Westphal loses the respect of the players he's done.
K
About time somebody made this thread.
Westphal is a terrible coach. Yes, he did look like a genius at the beginning of last year compared to what we had with Kenny Natt but the problem is people are focusing on the things that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time Geoff hires a coach, he should ask himself "Are we on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like on this message board I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now.
Westphal is a terrible coach. Yes, he did look like a genius at the beginning of last year compared to what we had with Kenny Natt but the problem is people are focusing on the things that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time Geoff hires a coach, he should ask himself "Are we on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like on this message board I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now.
About time somebody made this thread.
Westphal is a terrible coach. Yes, he did look like a genius at the beginning of last year compared to what we had with Kenny Natt but the problem is people are focusing on the things that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time Geoff hires a coach, he should ask himself "Are we on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like on this message board I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now.
Westphal is a terrible coach. Yes, he did look like a genius at the beginning of last year compared to what we had with Kenny Natt but the problem is people are focusing on the things that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time Geoff hires a coach, he should ask himself "Are we on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like on this message board I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now.
There is some scary stuff in that post of yours Bajaden. I really believe that Douby, Hawes, and JT suffered because of bad coaching. All three of those players had potential (yes, even Douby), but we have one bust and two guys who have shown little improvement. With Reke, Cuz, Whiteside, Greene, and JT on the roster I really want to see our youngsters get some coaching. So far this season it almost seems like Reke has regressed a bit (although part of that could be his jacked up ankles), and how Westphal is handling JT, Greene, and Cousins leaves a lot to be desired.
We have some young talent on the roster here, I'd hate to see all that potential go out the window because we have some hypocritical egoist at the helm.
I vote Mario Elie for head coach
We have some young talent on the roster here, I'd hate to see all that potential go out the window because we have some hypocritical egoist at the helm.
I vote Mario Elie for head coach
Geez, people.
If the Kings even shot 33% from 3 pt land, we would be (top-of-the-head estimate) 6 and 3 now easy.
If they shoot 75% FT's, they're probably 8 and 1 if Nash and Beasley hadn't had insane games against us.
It's not like the 3ptrs have even been contested ones they're missing.
And FT's aren't contested, yet the Kings players keep missing them.
When the Kings players start remotely playing to their potential, and start hitting shots they absolutely should (on average) and they STILL lose?
Then you can start concluding the coach has to go.
If the Kings even shot 33% from 3 pt land, we would be (top-of-the-head estimate) 6 and 3 now easy.
If they shoot 75% FT's, they're probably 8 and 1 if Nash and Beasley hadn't had insane games against us.
It's not like the 3ptrs have even been contested ones they're missing.
And FT's aren't contested, yet the Kings players keep missing them.
When the Kings players start remotely playing to their potential, and start hitting shots they absolutely should (on average) and they STILL lose?
Then you can start concluding the coach has to go.
You try looking at the whole picture and you'll understand more what the others are complaining about Westphal. It is actually very far from just looking at those missed three-point shots and free throws.
These complaints about Westphal are somewhat or somehow legitimate. But it is a tad bit premature to ask for his head. There might be some other more important reasons why Westphal keeps on messing-up the line-up and rotation of players. But comes the middle of the season nothing comes out good of Westphal's strategy and we still have a very poor rotation of players, then definitely Westphal has to go.
These complaints about Westphal are somewhat or somehow legitimate. But it is a tad bit premature to ask for his head. There might be some other more important reasons why Westphal keeps on messing-up the line-up and rotation of players. But comes the middle of the season nothing comes out good of Westphal's strategy and we still have a very poor rotation of players, then definitely Westphal has to go.
The question is going to be are we going to gut our core before we make a leadership change or not. I thought people saying 24 to 27 wins this year were crazy but the more I see the more I think it might be possible after all... We have way to much talent and potential as a unit to have this record and not enough solo talent to play without better offensive sets and rotations.
I agree for the most part, however Thompson has proven that he's a bench player. His first two seasons, he was a league leader in fouls. He often couldn't keep his head on the right track, and got in foul trouble or frustrated to the point of futility on the court. Once he started coming off the bench, the load of staying out of foul trouble to remain in the game was off his shoulders, and he could just focus on doing the best he could in the time he was able to get on the floor. This made him a much more effective player at the end of last season, and seems to be where he best belongs.
24 wins might be the upper limit to our win total. We have had the second easiest schedule in the NBA, with the easiest being Cleveland:
http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS
Our expected win percentage of .294 comes out to 24 wins over an 82 game season. The Clippers at least have had the third hardest schedule in the NBA so far.
http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS
Our expected win percentage of .294 comes out to 24 wins over an 82 game season. The Clippers at least have had the third hardest schedule in the NBA so far.
I think it is too early to can the coach. 8 games into the season and the coaches
Are still trying to find out what they have. Dalembert is new and he is just getting
Used to his teammates and the coaching staff. It is premature to say the coach is holding the team back. I think if by the allstar break this team is near or at the bottom of the league record wise, then we can start holding the coaches accountable for the season. We can only hope that this group will improve over time and the youthful mistakes will start to be reduced. The defense needs to improve if the Kings are going to have any success at all. The turn around has to come on the defensive end, because the offense will come when the shots start falling, but defense is all about effort and teamwork. Until the Kings start stopping other teams fro scoring every time down the court, they are going to continue to lose. The free throws being missed is a confidence and focus issue. There will be more confidence when the team starts playing better and they start winning. They need to turn it around. I think that as Cousins gets better, the team will start playing better. But you gotta give this team and coach time to work out the bugs. This unit has only been together 8 games.
Are still trying to find out what they have. Dalembert is new and he is just getting
Used to his teammates and the coaching staff. It is premature to say the coach is holding the team back. I think if by the allstar break this team is near or at the bottom of the league record wise, then we can start holding the coaches accountable for the season. We can only hope that this group will improve over time and the youthful mistakes will start to be reduced. The defense needs to improve if the Kings are going to have any success at all. The turn around has to come on the defensive end, because the offense will come when the shots start falling, but defense is all about effort and teamwork. Until the Kings start stopping other teams fro scoring every time down the court, they are going to continue to lose. The free throws being missed is a confidence and focus issue. There will be more confidence when the team starts playing better and they start winning. They need to turn it around. I think that as Cousins gets better, the team will start playing better. But you gotta give this team and coach time to work out the bugs. This unit has only been together 8 games.
Correlation doesn't mean causation. Come on. High school? The talent is dependent on chance. College? The talent is dependent upon recruiting. This is a very sketchy argument. Even the NBA example. What were all the circumstances of that situation? Was Westphal the single variable in the equation?
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Without necessarily buying into the underlying argument, I must say you can use that argument to discredit a man's entire resume over the course of his career. Quite obviously NOTHING will ever be exactly the same, so we know nothing. Methinks you probably aren't a recruiter. "But I only stole money out of the register when I was working alone at the conveneince store! Now that I am working with others in clothing retail there's nothing to be concerned about. Appleas and oranges I say."
If we were losing because of youth making mistakes that would be one thing but we are losing because we are not taking advantage of mismatches not taking advantage of obvious size and length we are putting the wrong defenders on the wrong opposition we are not running schemes but rather driving dishing to the knees of someone on the 3 line or just plain isos and thats our offense.
Every team no matter who they are will have players with bad nights shooting and even nights were the entire team has trouble hitting the long ball but we have enough inside talent to get the ball down low almost at will. We have the tall personnel that can play the high post and hit the 15 foot jumper or pass well enough to even play our old early 2000s offense.
We are better then 3 wins in 9 games right now with the competition we have faced. We have parts that on paper fit together well and its coaching that fits it together on the court sometimes thats impossible but.... Right now we aren't getting better on the court. We are not gaining chemistry we are having good or bad shooting or rebound nights and that determines if we are in the game or not.
There is no way we can win a ring this year there was very little chance we would be over 500 this year and come close to the playoffs but we had the talent to get 35-40 on draft day with the guys from last year our rooks and dally. If we wait till the AS break we are more then 1/2 through the season and we are at the bottom of the league we are looking at an even more empty arco and no way to get people back in until next year. Can the Maloof's even last that long? Maybe our strat this year is to get a high draft pick next summer if so we are right on track.... its worked so well for us so far.
Further we aren't 1 trade away from being a contender so why are we shopping players we know can fill a role we need filled if they are used correctly? We know what we have from JT if you tell him to don't worry about fouling out just go and play hard he will play hard until he is out of the game. We have the size we can let him foul out sometimes these days but if we make our youngs timid we take away the only advantage we have youth and potential.
Every team no matter who they are will have players with bad nights shooting and even nights were the entire team has trouble hitting the long ball but we have enough inside talent to get the ball down low almost at will. We have the tall personnel that can play the high post and hit the 15 foot jumper or pass well enough to even play our old early 2000s offense.
We are better then 3 wins in 9 games right now with the competition we have faced. We have parts that on paper fit together well and its coaching that fits it together on the court sometimes thats impossible but.... Right now we aren't getting better on the court. We are not gaining chemistry we are having good or bad shooting or rebound nights and that determines if we are in the game or not.
There is no way we can win a ring this year there was very little chance we would be over 500 this year and come close to the playoffs but we had the talent to get 35-40 on draft day with the guys from last year our rooks and dally. If we wait till the AS break we are more then 1/2 through the season and we are at the bottom of the league we are looking at an even more empty arco and no way to get people back in until next year. Can the Maloof's even last that long? Maybe our strat this year is to get a high draft pick next summer if so we are right on track.... its worked so well for us so far.
Further we aren't 1 trade away from being a contender so why are we shopping players we know can fill a role we need filled if they are used correctly? We know what we have from JT if you tell him to don't worry about fouling out just go and play hard he will play hard until he is out of the game. We have the size we can let him foul out sometimes these days but if we make our youngs timid we take away the only advantage we have youth and potential.
Thompson's foul problems are his own, I agree with you there, but that's not the whole story. He's not playing 15 minutes a game because of foul trouble. With the exception of the Nets game where he had 5 fouls in 14 minutes (and even Carl Landry came close to fouling out in that one so officiating played a role) he hasn't had more than 3 fouls in any game this season. I don't care if he fouls out of every game, I'd rather he play 30 minutes than 15.
My take on Thompson is that his foul problem is just as correctable as our poor free throw shooting. Some of it is bad technique (reaching instead of moving his feet, going for the block instead of just impeding the shot) and some of it is mental. It's also been true for a long time that rookie big men get no respect from the referees. I remember watching Greg Oden play the Lakers last year and he was getting literally mugged by Andrew Bynum (hands around his neck) with no call yet if he came close to touching someone on defense the foul was called. Cousins has been getting some of this treatment as well. And Thompson is not going to earn any more respect sitting on the bench.
Carl Landry is by far the better offensive player right now, but Thompson is a better rebounder and a better defender despite the fouls and has better size for the position. Giving up on Thompson and his foul problem seems short-sighted and counter productive to me. He's with his third head coach already and that's tough on any player. I don't think we should assume his coach-ability is a problem. A young 6-11 PF with a decent skill level is a valuable commodity. He put up 12.5 and 8.5 last season. Those are respectable numbers for a second year player. I like Carl Landry. He's struggled a bit this season so far but he's a dependable veteran. But we have a size disadvantage whenever he's out there. It's better for this team long term if Thompson gets better and Thompson starts.
My take on Thompson is that his foul problem is just as correctable as our poor free throw shooting. Some of it is bad technique (reaching instead of moving his feet, going for the block instead of just impeding the shot) and some of it is mental. It's also been true for a long time that rookie big men get no respect from the referees. I remember watching Greg Oden play the Lakers last year and he was getting literally mugged by Andrew Bynum (hands around his neck) with no call yet if he came close to touching someone on defense the foul was called. Cousins has been getting some of this treatment as well. And Thompson is not going to earn any more respect sitting on the bench.
Carl Landry is by far the better offensive player right now, but Thompson is a better rebounder and a better defender despite the fouls and has better size for the position. Giving up on Thompson and his foul problem seems short-sighted and counter productive to me. He's with his third head coach already and that's tough on any player. I don't think we should assume his coach-ability is a problem. A young 6-11 PF with a decent skill level is a valuable commodity. He put up 12.5 and 8.5 last season. Those are respectable numbers for a second year player. I like Carl Landry. He's struggled a bit this season so far but he's a dependable veteran. But we have a size disadvantage whenever he's out there. It's better for this team long term if Thompson gets better and Thompson starts.
Actually, if you look at the track record of most bigs inthe league, it's normal to experience more foul problems in the first few years. It rarely is a career long problem.
Notice you didn't say anything abut his talent not being good enough to be a starter. Foul problems in your 2nd year don't "prove" you can't be a starter down the road.
You also didn't acknowledge who was starting at center next to JT last year. JT hasn't had a chance to start next to an nba starting center.
Notice you didn't say anything abut his talent not being good enough to be a starter. Foul problems in your 2nd year don't "prove" you can't be a starter down the road.
You also didn't acknowledge who was starting at center next to JT last year. JT hasn't had a chance to start next to an nba starting center.
Have you seen this article yet?
1-on-1 with Donte Greene
His responses here hint at exactly what we're afraid of.
The lack of communication from a head coach is inexcusable. If you're going to bench a guy, you should at least tell him what he needs to work on to earn his minutes back. That way they feel like they still control their own destiny instead of being subject to the day-to-day whims of someone with more power than them. This was sometimes a problem with Adelman too, by the way. And it's part of the reason he no longer coaches this team.
1-on-1 with Donte Greene
His responses here hint at exactly what we're afraid of.
The lack of communication from a head coach is inexcusable. If you're going to bench a guy, you should at least tell him what he needs to work on to earn his minutes back. That way they feel like they still control their own destiny instead of being subject to the day-to-day whims of someone with more power than them. This was sometimes a problem with Adelman too, by the way. And it's part of the reason he no longer coaches this team.