Well, it's over. Get your goodbyes ready
- Thread starter folsomfella
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I want to be positive, ignore all the endless gloom and doom, I really do, but reality keeps mugging me. Today, was a torcherous mugging reality check. I really think the economy as bad as it is and likely in the dumps for many months (years?) is not keeping Kings franchise relocation from happening. To the contrary, if Kings have no up to NBA standards arena - they will be forced by the league to leave town. Again, reality check. The NCAA has already declared Kings Arena not suitable (meaning unsafe) for collegiate basketball. All of this points to the likelihood that Maloof's sell - simple as that. March 1st looms. I mentioned Ellison earlier as a possible suitor (there's some others) because I though he could easily make an intriguing big-time dollar offer. He's said to be miffed over having his $400 million bid for the Warriors rejected - claiming it was actually the highest. What a trip it would be if he got the Kings and decided to make it his dream to get back at W's for stiffing him. Maybe it's all incredibily wishful thinking (but I'm searching for any straws available) that he could swoop up this up and coming Kings dynamo, to enjoy the plastering of the Warriors, Lakers, and everyone else in the WC for years to come. Come on Larry, you're now 65 (although you seem like 40's), jump into the Sactown fray since those jealous Bay Area snobs have let you down. Ok, back to bottle of sauce...
Couple problems there...
1) The contract which has the Warriors playing in Oracle Arena runs through 2016. That would make for a kinda weird and uncomfortable situation.
2) Larry Ellison's personality is pretty well known among the IT community in Silicon Valley, and his rep is not pretty. "Tyrannical" and "megalomaniac" are the only applicable words I can use on a family-friendly board. For fear of being sued, I will limit myself to saying that, IN MY OPINION, he is by far the worst micromanager I have ever heard of in the business world. When you have thousands of employees in companies that you run or have acquired a majority share in, and insist on veto power over even the most trivial hires by those companies, and DO use it regularly to veto the decisions of hiring managers who have actually done the interviews and would be supervising the people, that is just effing insanity, IN MY OPINION.
IN MY OPINION, you sell someone like that an NBA team, and he's going to be micromanaging the bejeezus out of it. He will not just pick the players and coaching staff, he will tell them what breakfast cereal they're allowed to eat, and when they're allowed to eat it.
Really. You do NOT want that guy owning a team, unless it's the Lakers.
That said, as a 6th generation Northern Californian and current resident of Santa Clara, I can forgive a move by the team, as long as it stays in NorCal. If they must move, I'd welcome them to the south bay with great enthusiasm. But please, Maloofs, do not even THINK about selling them to Ellison!
1) The contract which has the Warriors playing in Oracle Arena runs through 2016. That would make for a kinda weird and uncomfortable situation.
2) Larry Ellison's personality is pretty well known among the IT community in Silicon Valley, and his rep is not pretty. "Tyrannical" and "megalomaniac" are the only applicable words I can use on a family-friendly board. For fear of being sued, I will limit myself to saying that, IN MY OPINION, he is by far the worst micromanager I have ever heard of in the business world. When you have thousands of employees in companies that you run or have acquired a majority share in, and insist on veto power over even the most trivial hires by those companies, and DO use it regularly to veto the decisions of hiring managers who have actually done the interviews and would be supervising the people, that is just effing insanity, IN MY OPINION.
IN MY OPINION, you sell someone like that an NBA team, and he's going to be micromanaging the bejeezus out of it. He will not just pick the players and coaching staff, he will tell them what breakfast cereal they're allowed to eat, and when they're allowed to eat it.
Really. You do NOT want that guy owning a team, unless it's the Lakers.
That said, as a 6th generation Northern Californian and current resident of Santa Clara, I can forgive a move by the team, as long as it stays in NorCal. If they must move, I'd welcome them to the south bay with great enthusiasm. But please, Maloofs, do not even THINK about selling them to Ellison!
Sacramento has lost the right to influence who owns the Kings or even if anybody owns them. You earn rights like those through conduct. You also lose them the same way. These decisions are now going to be made up at the big boys table amongst the adults. The pack of squabbling children are just going to have to live with whatever is decided.
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We might want to hold off on the sale/Ellison speculation until there's maybe a hint from the front office that they are considering selling the team. There isn't one right now. The Maloofs have repeatedly stated that they love owning an NBA franchise. They worked hard for about 20 years to get back in the NBA after the death of their father forced the sale of the Rockets, right? Now, sure, one can imagine that owners like that would move the team to a new city, but sell? Hardly. Nor is there any indication that the NBA would ever force them to sell. Force them to move? Maybe, but we're certainly not to that point yet. I mean, it's OK to be worried but the speculation here is pretty much over the top.
"Downtown developer David Taylor, who has been working with Kamilos, said the group proposing the land swap was already working on an alternative plan to get a new Kings arena built in the downtown arena, perhaps by developing the current Arco Arena site and using the proceeds for an arena in the railyard."
Whatever alternative plans Taylor has, I hope they're good ones.
The Cal Expo board members along with the naysayers need to realize that we were lucky to have Gregg Lukenbill and his partners purchase the Kings, brought the team to Sacramento and constructed two arenas without any public dollars.
Because of the Kings and Arco Arena, Natomas developed very quickly and brought many entertainment events.
I wonder if they realize what happened to Seattle or not. Despite losing their team, at least they do have the Seahawks and Mariners to fall back on.
We have the Rivercats and now the Mountain Lions. Where will we host WWE, MMA, Disney on Ice, graduations, concerts, etc.?
There's not much going on at Cal Expo and their biggest attraction is the State Fair, which runs for less than a month.
As a life long Sacramentan, I would rather have seen an amusement park built instead such as something similar to Great America. Can you imagine how many people would come to Sacramento just for that?
Then add in an arena in the rail yards area and now you're talking.
Instead of accepting a deal of a life time for a new and improved Cal Expo, things will remain status quo. Sad. Just sad.
Whatever alternative plans Taylor has, I hope they're good ones.
The Cal Expo board members along with the naysayers need to realize that we were lucky to have Gregg Lukenbill and his partners purchase the Kings, brought the team to Sacramento and constructed two arenas without any public dollars.
Because of the Kings and Arco Arena, Natomas developed very quickly and brought many entertainment events.
I wonder if they realize what happened to Seattle or not. Despite losing their team, at least they do have the Seahawks and Mariners to fall back on.
We have the Rivercats and now the Mountain Lions. Where will we host WWE, MMA, Disney on Ice, graduations, concerts, etc.?
There's not much going on at Cal Expo and their biggest attraction is the State Fair, which runs for less than a month.
As a life long Sacramentan, I would rather have seen an amusement park built instead such as something similar to Great America. Can you imagine how many people would come to Sacramento just for that?
Then add in an arena in the rail yards area and now you're talking.
Instead of accepting a deal of a life time for a new and improved Cal Expo, things will remain status quo. Sad. Just sad.
I would classify this not as a force them to move, but as eliminating any resistance to them moving. This was the NBA's own bailout plan that just failed. Its been a decade of incompetence and dawdling and nothing has worked. Nobody aside from a deluded few in Sacto's decisionmaking gaggle could claim at this point that the Maloofs have not given it the old college try. If they decide they have had enough this spring, or next spring, or the spring after that, there will be no resistance, no blame, anywhere in the country except Sacramento. There's rampant speculation on other messageboards all across the country, some do not even list Sacto as an NBA town anymore. If the Maloofs decide to move now it will just be a shrug and some wise old nodding. Sacramento has blown it so bad that there are no more allies and they can't even play the victim anymore. All the bungling has accomplished nothing except to put the city entirely at the Maloofs mercy now, while wonderfully embarrassing the city and making it look like a pack of stupid amateurs. Whatever the Maloofs decide to do, it'll be done, on their timetable, not the city's, and nobody will blame them. So Kings fans better start baking those cakes and sending them to the Maloofs' addresses, female fans better start pelting them with their panties at games, because whether it be foolish leaders or an ignorant reactionary populace, all you have managed to do is give away all your power and leave yourself totally at the mercy of people with precious little holding them in town.
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Just a note... nobody is going to use their money to privately build a new arena here. Just won't happen. I don't care if Ellison lights cigars with $100 bills. Besides, if he buys the team he would move them too.
The public support has to be there in the form of a rental car and hotel tax. That plus selling off property and developing Natomas and you can probably get some financing for a new arena. This plan works and it works in many cities. They did that in Seattle to build a couple of very nice downtown stadiums. They just hit their limit when the third pro team came to them with their hat in their hands. If this had been put to public vote way back when, we would be watching a new arena rising somewhere around this city. Residents don't give a damn about tourists. As long as it doesn't hit their pockets, they could have gotten that vote passed. Instead they got greedy and went for the home run with Q & R and struck out. Like people vote to tax themsleves!
The public support has to be there in the form of a rental car and hotel tax. That plus selling off property and developing Natomas and you can probably get some financing for a new arena. This plan works and it works in many cities. They did that in Seattle to build a couple of very nice downtown stadiums. They just hit their limit when the third pro team came to them with their hat in their hands. If this had been put to public vote way back when, we would be watching a new arena rising somewhere around this city. Residents don't give a damn about tourists. As long as it doesn't hit their pockets, they could have gotten that vote passed. Instead they got greedy and went for the home run with Q & R and struck out. Like people vote to tax themsleves!
Yep, we deserve whatever the hell we get. Just like the politicians you get are the ones you deserve - and look what the crew we've got has done to us. Now, I've really got a bad headache - the sauce is not helping at all. I guess we could make up some kind of poll on all this arena crap. My 90% sure prediction is Kings go on to have fun, competitive year of 40 or so wins (maybe grab a playoff spot) with nice crowds showing their undying enthusiasm, knowing it might be last NBA basketball season they ever see in Sacramento. Of course, it might just as easily be more of the same 10,000 or so paying customers on most nights. Then, as ominous calendar turns to March 1, 2011, Maloof's file for intent to relocate. No one will be able to blame them, although some may try. The NBA might even be secretly lobbying them by then to pull the plug on cowtown due to deteriorating condition of the arena. A host of other cities will come calling offering all kinds of goodies and prospective new owners will ask if the team is for sale - of course it is - if price is right. The Kings will be playing exciting B-ball into late winter and spring, so maybe even bigger crowds turn out for last few weeks of the season. That's ongoing nightmare as I see it, only getting much worse if a lockout ensues and somehow the Kings are still stuck Sac. Forget the poll, it's too depressing...
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The story in the Bee this morning suggests that, but that has always been considered nonviable and I think may be just more delusion and depseration. Myths like that have always been part of the problem in Sacramento. Renovating Arco, having the Maloofs build a new $400million building out of their own pockets, the Maloofs would never leave Sacto, after all we are the world's best fans! etc. Pipe dreams that have helped people lie to themselves for a solid decade until the time has finally run out.
Arco was built on the cheap 20 years ago. Its been repeatedly stated by people in the know that it really can't be renovated. Its just an outdated structure, and was never a terribly well built one even back in its heyday. If the Kings leave it will fall down on its own in a few years, and then Sacramento will face either further deterioration in its stature when it no longer even has an arena of its own for events and its populace has to shuffle off like a group of poor cousins to the real city by the bay if they want to see any of that newfangled entertainment stuff, or the same rats who have sunk the Kings ship will have to come crawling back out of the woodwork to do all the things they said they would never do while the Kings were there to build an arena on the public dime without any anchor tenant or greater aspiration than maybe if they are lucky scoring a Britney concert one day.
Arco was built on the cheap 20 years ago. Its been repeatedly stated by people in the know that it really can't be renovated. Its just an outdated structure, and was never a terribly well built one even back in its heyday. If the Kings leave it will fall down on its own in a few years, and then Sacramento will face either further deterioration in its stature when it no longer even has an arena of its own for events and its populace has to shuffle off like a group of poor cousins to the real city by the bay if they want to see any of that newfangled entertainment stuff, or the same rats who have sunk the Kings ship will have to come crawling back out of the woodwork to do all the things they said they would never do while the Kings were there to build an arena on the public dime without any anchor tenant or greater aspiration than maybe if they are lucky scoring a Britney concert one day.
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I'm not a native Sacramentan but I've lived here since early 1970's and in Nor Cal on and off since 1966. Spread around that time I've lived in Houston, TX, Tucson, AZ, Ventura County, CA - plus overseas during my life in parts of Europe, Mid East and Asia. Sacramento area is wonderful in many ways (probably best now if mainly hanging in El Dorado or Placer), especially with its Meditrannean-type weather, family friendly enviornment, relavive inexpensive standard of living compared to Bay Area, and some other positives. But the negatives, big glaring negatives, are weighing ball and chain heavy in 2010 - with no hope things will change anytime soon. The local city and county politics has always been pathetic, greedy, giddily self-centered, and all about them - not us. The dominate state captial job base here just does not cut it anymore. Loser sad sacs with their loser attitudes clone themselves here, compared to other much more positive and dynamic cities. I've never been in a urban area (and as indicated, I've been just about everywhere) with less ability to initiate steady, privately funded economic progress. Take Houston by comparison. In early 1970's that city had a population of about 1.5 million, roughly same size as current Sac metro area. It's gleeming downtown was a buzz-saw of activity then and has remained so since - even during boom and bust energy production times. Houston is now 4th largest city in US with 6 million people. Sactown has a population of less than half-million people. H-town must have at least half-dozen 70+ story skyscrappers -couple of giants going up every decade over past 30-40 years. Meanwhile, creepy, crudy downtown Sac has a dismal skyline with it's tallest building at 32 stories and construction on Wells Fargo Center was completed a quarter century ago. Our local skyline is about as impressive as little Tucson which is a dwarf compared to big brother Phoenix. In Tucson, there's a genuine local team spirit of comradere, centered around fanatical support for UofA collegiate sports, and a highly positive pro-biz attitude. I could go on in making other horribly depressing comparisons. Sac is sad, getting worse by the day - and those are just the sorry facts, sir. And for all those losers who say why don't you leave? I leave all the time, come back and go again. Every year I take 4-6 weeks and jet off somewhere on a sunny beach to get away from this small-minded place. It's the only way I can maintain any long-term sanity and not cop a local group-think depressed attitude about everything here in cowtown.
Oh I agree. I only use Ellison to make a point about why this is different from the SF Giants situation. That was mostly privately financed and only someone as rich as Ellison has the type of money to pull that off here and in reality, he wants to be in San Jose, where he doesn't even have to build an arena.
As for tourists, is there enough of them to raise money for an arena? It worked in KC but that arena broke ground over 5 years ago when it was still affordable. It's gonna cost almost double that to build an arena now and I just don't think it can raise enough money regardless of whether or not the citizens will vote for it or not.
As for tourists, is there enough of them to raise money for an arena? It worked in KC but that arena broke ground over 5 years ago when it was still affordable. It's gonna cost almost double that to build an arena now and I just don't think it can raise enough money regardless of whether or not the citizens will vote for it or not.
Also, this may be naive and overly optimistic, but where exactly would they petition to move? Las Vegas is a non starter from what I've heard, and doesn't exactly have an NBA-ready arena yet. Seattle has the same problems as Sacramento. San Jose and Anaheim have been the rumored destinations, but will the Warriors and Lakers/Clippers really allow another team in their turf? I don't think it will be that easy. But I've been wrong before.
I don't take offense at all and I live here and was born and raised here too. My beef has always been with the negative Nancy's that make up the city council and local 'leadership'. I have never once been been opposed to any of the plans that have been brought forth, I've always been against the local 'leaders' that reside in city hall that do nothing for the good of our city and don't realize smart growth when they see it. These people want Sacramento to revert to a 1978 mentality and are about to get their way.
KC makes the most sense but the Maloofs have said that they want to be close to Las Vegas.
A lot depends on what goes down in Las Vegas. While it seems like a long shot that they find financing for an arena, talks are heating up about how to go about it. If they beat the odds and break ground, I have to think that the Maloofs will strongly consider it. Stern doesn't want to be in Vegas but he's already said that he would leave it up to the board of governors and I doubt they would stop their fellow owners from relocating to a destination of their choice provided they can come up with the relocation fee.
A lot depends on what goes down in Las Vegas. While it seems like a long shot that they find financing for an arena, talks are heating up about how to go about it. If they beat the odds and break ground, I have to think that the Maloofs will strongly consider it. Stern doesn't want to be in Vegas but he's already said that he would leave it up to the board of governors and I doubt they would stop their fellow owners from relocating to a destination of their choice provided they can come up with the relocation fee.
Well I know that Stern doesn't want 3 teams in one metro area which would be the case if the Kings moved to Anaheim. Then again, I think it's lame that 2 teams share one arena so if the presence of the Kings were to kick start a move to relocate the Clippers then it's something to consider if there is no new arena in Sacramento's future.
First off, Sacramento is like a downtown movie theater that keeps showing the same cult movie over and over again every night. Every once in a while someone new will buy a ticket, but after a few showings, he or she will move on, and your left with the same group of people. You want to change the people, change the movie.. If you can't figure out my meaning, then you belong in sacramento.
I lived in sacramento for over 40 years, so I do have fond feelings for the town. But I can honestly say that in the forty some odd years I lived there the biggest change was the development of the interstate 80 and 50 interchange downtown. At least that made it easier for people from real cities to pass through quicker. Only one event brought sacramento to nation attention. The arrivial of the Kings. And their departure will allow the city to slide back into the oblivious state it came from.
On a selfish note, if they move to SoCal, I might actually get to go to a few games every year. If Santa Clara, it doesn't matter to me since I follow them from afar anyway. But I feel for the fans of sacramento. Regardless of where I've traveled, if I say I'm from sacramento, someone will bring up the Kings. Now sacramento will be remembered as the town that lost the Kings. And one final note! Don't blame the city council. They didn't elect themselves. You did!!!! If you don't like what their doing, then vote the bastards out, and replace them with people of like mind. Sorry for my rant, but I grew up in St. Louis. You know, a real city where things got done. By the way, to the people of St Louis, Kansas city is a cowtown. Both figuretivly and literaly. You can get great steaks there though.
I lived in sacramento for over 40 years, so I do have fond feelings for the town. But I can honestly say that in the forty some odd years I lived there the biggest change was the development of the interstate 80 and 50 interchange downtown. At least that made it easier for people from real cities to pass through quicker. Only one event brought sacramento to nation attention. The arrivial of the Kings. And their departure will allow the city to slide back into the oblivious state it came from.
On a selfish note, if they move to SoCal, I might actually get to go to a few games every year. If Santa Clara, it doesn't matter to me since I follow them from afar anyway. But I feel for the fans of sacramento. Regardless of where I've traveled, if I say I'm from sacramento, someone will bring up the Kings. Now sacramento will be remembered as the town that lost the Kings. And one final note! Don't blame the city council. They didn't elect themselves. You did!!!! If you don't like what their doing, then vote the bastards out, and replace them with people of like mind. Sorry for my rant, but I grew up in St. Louis. You know, a real city where things got done. By the way, to the people of St Louis, Kansas city is a cowtown. Both figuretivly and literaly. You can get great steaks there though.
I would like to know why equity seat rights is not being pursued as an option. It has worked and continues to work in other places.
Why not have the Maloofs and the city sell the Arco site. Once the Maloofs pay off the existing loan, use the balance towards a new arena in the railyards. That will not even come close to paying for a new arena. But that is where you could enter Kamilos with the backing from the Aussie bank to build a new arena using equity seat rights.
No votes. Minimal government intrusion.
Why not have the Maloofs and the city sell the Arco site. Once the Maloofs pay off the existing loan, use the balance towards a new arena in the railyards. That will not even come close to paying for a new arena. But that is where you could enter Kamilos with the backing from the Aussie bank to build a new arena using equity seat rights.
No votes. Minimal government intrusion.
Equity rights and PSL's helped pay for portions of stadiums but that was back in the 80's and 90's. It costs so much to build stadiums and arenas now that those methods would barely make a dent.
The idea was actually floated around a year ago but went nowhere. It works for colleges which was the basis of an article that started the debate but when compared to what type of income is needed for pro sports, the idea fell apart before it even really began.
Here is the thread we had on it...
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?33919-Is-this-realistic
The idea was actually floated around a year ago but went nowhere. It works for colleges which was the basis of an article that started the debate but when compared to what type of income is needed for pro sports, the idea fell apart before it even really began.
Here is the thread we had on it...
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?33919-Is-this-realistic
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http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_do_I_buy_Green_Bay_Packers_stock
Why can't we think outside and raise funds publicly through the fan base. I'll buy shares of the Kings if the Maloofs offered.
Why can't we think outside and raise funds publicly through the fan base. I'll buy shares of the Kings if the Maloofs offered.