Kings to be involved in the Carmelo trade?
- Thread starter mr. moustache
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I dont know, I do think the Melo hate has gone a little too far .. I know were breaking off into a couple different threads here, but In another thread I mentioned how I would go after him if he was extended.
One argument is that Melo might not be a number 1 guy, thats fine though right? I mean, in ANY deal we would still have Evans. Is he a one dimensional player? I really dont think so. He's a good rebounder and good ball handler for his size. He's a bully .. kind of like Evans really ( which could be the biggest problem ) I love his game. He just wears down defenders, and while he isnt the best defender at his position, his physical offensive game deffinetly wears down whoever he is matched up against. And being the elite scorer that he is, making the other team have to figure out stopping him and Evans .. good luck.
He's also pretty versatile which fits in nicely with our whole roster really. He can play PF if we're forced into playing small ball, and the two if we decide to go big. If you dont think he is a top 5 players thats fine .. its just a number. He's certainly in the mix though.
Are there players I rather have on this team than him? sure. He's not the best fit, but can we guarentee a shot at ANYONE as talented and young as him becoming available any time soon? no way. Thats one of my biggest arguments for this trade .. we need another piece, another all star piece. I think most fans are in agreement with that, and Melo will probly be our best shot at getting that type of player.
One argument is that Melo might not be a number 1 guy, thats fine though right? I mean, in ANY deal we would still have Evans. Is he a one dimensional player? I really dont think so. He's a good rebounder and good ball handler for his size. He's a bully .. kind of like Evans really ( which could be the biggest problem ) I love his game. He just wears down defenders, and while he isnt the best defender at his position, his physical offensive game deffinetly wears down whoever he is matched up against. And being the elite scorer that he is, making the other team have to figure out stopping him and Evans .. good luck.
He's also pretty versatile which fits in nicely with our whole roster really. He can play PF if we're forced into playing small ball, and the two if we decide to go big. If you dont think he is a top 5 players thats fine .. its just a number. He's certainly in the mix though.
Are there players I rather have on this team than him? sure. He's not the best fit, but can we guarentee a shot at ANYONE as talented and young as him becoming available any time soon? no way. Thats one of my biggest arguments for this trade .. we need another piece, another all star piece. I think most fans are in agreement with that, and Melo will probly be our best shot at getting that type of player.
I don't think his game matches well with Tyreke's, especially as a complementary type player. That's the only reason I don't want him. I know he's not the guy that's gonna make you a championship contender, but I think we already have two of those, as the team continues to grow (assuming Reke and DMC reach their potential). If we only had DMC, I'd be all over a Melo deal, because of the inside-out potential of pairing those two together. But anything that takes the ball out of Reke's hands and puts in the hands of someone who doesn't make his teammates better (career 3 apg player) isn't good for the future of our franchise.
He'd add a dynamic scorer, but at the cost of the development of Tyreke and Cousins. And since it wouldn't be a big enough improvement to make us a top four team in the West, I don't think it's worth that cost.
He'd add a dynamic scorer, but at the cost of the development of Tyreke and Cousins. And since it wouldn't be a big enough improvement to make us a top four team in the West, I don't think it's worth that cost.
A couple years ago I was convinced Melo was never going to go anywhere in the league because he didn't care about defense. I've seen progress in that regard since then as well as some evidence of a developing killer-instinct in playoff series where he gets so hot he just cannot miss for whole quarters of a game no matter who is guarding him. Which is to say, I'm actually a little bit sold on the idea that Melo is not just a scorer but a guy who knows how to win who's just starting to grow into himself as a basketball player.
I still don't think you can win a championship with him as your number 1 guy, primarily because of the defensive shortcomings, but with Reke and Cousins already in the lineup for the forseeable future, would Melo be the number one guy in Sacramento? At best I think he'd be 1b to Tyreke's 1a and Cousins has got potential as a dominant big man in a league without very many of them to be 1b or 1c himself. In that scenario I think Melo's scoring might make the Tyreke/Cousins duo more well-rounded by taking some of the pressure of them to carry the scoring in every game.
But that's all contingent on Anthony accepting his role as part of an equal-weighted trio rather than being the star. I can see that happening in New York with Amare and Paul, but given the age/experience difference I'd be nervous about what happens to his ego when he goes from Denver where he was the man to Sacramento where sophmore Tyreke and rookie Cousins have just been enshrined as larger than life pillars of the franchise. I'd also be surprised if his wife wasn't in his ear in a year or two about finding a bigger city to live in. I like the basketball fit on paper, I think all three players can adjust and find a way to compliment each other, but the extraneous factors make this look like a no-go to me.
One last thought though, because the irony amuses me. As much as us basketball fans have complained about what Lebron's Miami decision is going to do to the league (and I've certainly done my fair share) it's funny to think that in this situation, what just happened in Miami might be one of the only factors working in our favor on this one. Lebron choosing Bosh/Wayne over "bright lights, big city" is just the sortof curveball which might get a New York hero like Melo to move to Sacramento instead of back home so he could play with two other developing stars.
I still don't think you can win a championship with him as your number 1 guy, primarily because of the defensive shortcomings, but with Reke and Cousins already in the lineup for the forseeable future, would Melo be the number one guy in Sacramento? At best I think he'd be 1b to Tyreke's 1a and Cousins has got potential as a dominant big man in a league without very many of them to be 1b or 1c himself. In that scenario I think Melo's scoring might make the Tyreke/Cousins duo more well-rounded by taking some of the pressure of them to carry the scoring in every game.
But that's all contingent on Anthony accepting his role as part of an equal-weighted trio rather than being the star. I can see that happening in New York with Amare and Paul, but given the age/experience difference I'd be nervous about what happens to his ego when he goes from Denver where he was the man to Sacramento where sophmore Tyreke and rookie Cousins have just been enshrined as larger than life pillars of the franchise. I'd also be surprised if his wife wasn't in his ear in a year or two about finding a bigger city to live in. I like the basketball fit on paper, I think all three players can adjust and find a way to compliment each other, but the extraneous factors make this look like a no-go to me.
One last thought though, because the irony amuses me. As much as us basketball fans have complained about what Lebron's Miami decision is going to do to the league (and I've certainly done my fair share) it's funny to think that in this situation, what just happened in Miami might be one of the only factors working in our favor on this one. Lebron choosing Bosh/Wayne over "bright lights, big city" is just the sortof curveball which might get a New York hero like Melo to move to Sacramento instead of back home so he could play with two other developing stars.
I don't understand the hesitation around here on getting Anthony. Even if he's not a superstar, just a scorer, not a good defender, passer etc. his track record speaks for itself. He has been in the playoffs every year as the number one option on his team. There are only a few guys in the league with that kind of talent, however you may feel about his attitude and playing style.
This reminds me of the Bulls a few years ago not wanting to let go of guys like Deng and Gordon in trades for Gasol or Kobe (if the trade rumors were actually true). At that point they thought they had an upcoming young team, and put way too much value on guys who had serious flaws in their game, and expected all the young guys on the team to develop and correct those flaws. Fast forward a couple years, Deng never learned to shoot the 3 and create for himself, Gordon developed any PG skills and became a bit of a chucker, Tyson Chandler never reached the ceiling they had projected, Curry got fat and fell apart (funny that he is the only one from that era who they actually got any value for). Hinrich just kinda sucked. Now Deng is on a horrible contract, Chandler, Hinrich and Gordon are all gone with nothing to show for it, and they fell back into the basement.
On the other hand, look at what Riley did with the Heat. They had a great young trio with Wade, Butler, and Odom, and huge momentum after Wade's rookie year, plus some good roleplayers, but instead of falling in love with a good, but not great bunch of guys, he cashed in on the value they had built, and parlayed in into a championship. Not saying that Carmelo is anywhere near Shaq, but the great teams go as far as their best players can take them. Boston is another example of this working out.
So in my opinion, if you can get Carmelo while still holding on to Cousins and Evans, even if you have to gut the rest of the team, then you do it. Fill in the roleplayers later, try to hold onto the best defenders out of the young guys, ala Boston, guys like Casspi, Landry, Thompson, Garcia, Beno, and Whiteside can all be replaced.
With all that said, if the Maloofs are serious about bringing in Carmelo, it shouldn't take gutting the team to do it. With our cap space, and maybe bringing in a third team -sending Billups to Atlanta for Crawford's expiring and sweetener from us if needed, for example- Denver can come out of this deal saving upwards of 30 million dollars this year,
getting some young guys and picks, and having huge capspace next year. Basically kickstarting a rebuild in one move.
This reminds me of the Bulls a few years ago not wanting to let go of guys like Deng and Gordon in trades for Gasol or Kobe (if the trade rumors were actually true). At that point they thought they had an upcoming young team, and put way too much value on guys who had serious flaws in their game, and expected all the young guys on the team to develop and correct those flaws. Fast forward a couple years, Deng never learned to shoot the 3 and create for himself, Gordon developed any PG skills and became a bit of a chucker, Tyson Chandler never reached the ceiling they had projected, Curry got fat and fell apart (funny that he is the only one from that era who they actually got any value for). Hinrich just kinda sucked. Now Deng is on a horrible contract, Chandler, Hinrich and Gordon are all gone with nothing to show for it, and they fell back into the basement.
On the other hand, look at what Riley did with the Heat. They had a great young trio with Wade, Butler, and Odom, and huge momentum after Wade's rookie year, plus some good roleplayers, but instead of falling in love with a good, but not great bunch of guys, he cashed in on the value they had built, and parlayed in into a championship. Not saying that Carmelo is anywhere near Shaq, but the great teams go as far as their best players can take them. Boston is another example of this working out.
So in my opinion, if you can get Carmelo while still holding on to Cousins and Evans, even if you have to gut the rest of the team, then you do it. Fill in the roleplayers later, try to hold onto the best defenders out of the young guys, ala Boston, guys like Casspi, Landry, Thompson, Garcia, Beno, and Whiteside can all be replaced.
With all that said, if the Maloofs are serious about bringing in Carmelo, it shouldn't take gutting the team to do it. With our cap space, and maybe bringing in a third team -sending Billups to Atlanta for Crawford's expiring and sweetener from us if needed, for example- Denver can come out of this deal saving upwards of 30 million dollars this year,
getting some young guys and picks, and having huge capspace next year. Basically kickstarting a rebuild in one move.
While Melo is ball dominant in the nba, and gets a lot of points going one on one, I really don't think it's accurate to imply he and Tyreke as two ball dominant players can't co-exist. When watching Melo play internationally, and I've seen every game he's ever played in in a USA jersey, he spreads the floor and is a great catch and shoot spot up player. He wouldn't have to go one on one as much playing with both Tyreke and Cousins.
Melo shouldn't be defined by only the system he plays in in Denver, and lack of an offensive supporting cast. If he would score in the post for us, spot up and shoot the numerous shots Tyreke would create for him, and help spread the defense it could be a great scenario. If he came in an completely disrupted the flow of the offense, forced shots, and broke out of the offense to go one on one to often, then obviously it wouldn't work out well.
The team we have now, with Tyreke and Cousins, when they mature in a few years, will be better than any supporting cast melo has ever had. And it could happen before a few years goes by. I really don't see Melo jacking up as many shots with better offensive players around him. I could be wrong though...
Melo shouldn't be defined by only the system he plays in in Denver, and lack of an offensive supporting cast. If he would score in the post for us, spot up and shoot the numerous shots Tyreke would create for him, and help spread the defense it could be a great scenario. If he came in an completely disrupted the flow of the offense, forced shots, and broke out of the offense to go one on one to often, then obviously it wouldn't work out well.
The team we have now, with Tyreke and Cousins, when they mature in a few years, will be better than any supporting cast melo has ever had. And it could happen before a few years goes by. I really don't see Melo jacking up as many shots with better offensive players around him. I could be wrong though...
Here's a warriors article on him.
http://www.warriorsworld.net/trades-carmelo-anthony-doesn’t-matter/
http://www.warriorsworld.net/trades-carmelo-anthony-doesn’t-matter/
Tracy McGrady was very good prior to the injury. Heart or no heart he was an offensive juggernaut just as Melo is but I would say slightly better. From what I remember, during his Magic years, he would be carrying team worst than Denver to the playoff. First round out of course but still impressive. He was comparable to Kobe except the lack of getting it done. But then again, who can close game out better than Kobe?
Greetings fellow Kings fans,
I haven't posted on here in quite sometime, but I am back to put my input throughout the season. As for Carmelo, I am 50/50 on this, I really don't want to desimate this team and we only have our "Big 3" so to say and we are left with limited compared to how stacked we are with talent this upcoming season. I'm more on the ship that sails away from Melo island, I prefer depth and see where we go from here rather than just shipping everyone out. We have two expirings in Landry & Dalembert and we might as well experiment with Mr. Samuel. If all things end up like we hope, we have a physical & intimidating shot blocker on the inside, two actually...I left out Hassan, but I doubt he plays much anyways. If things go well with Samuel, who knows...maybe we extend him, of course I don't want to overpay, we don't want to do that with all our cap flexibility, and go from there, if we see VAST improvement then we can say we were fine with watching our youngins and their development. Overall, I don't want someone who does not want to be here, Melo just seems like Bosh lite, different positions, loyal...no & money hungry.
I haven't posted on here in quite sometime, but I am back to put my input throughout the season. As for Carmelo, I am 50/50 on this, I really don't want to desimate this team and we only have our "Big 3" so to say and we are left with limited compared to how stacked we are with talent this upcoming season. I'm more on the ship that sails away from Melo island, I prefer depth and see where we go from here rather than just shipping everyone out. We have two expirings in Landry & Dalembert and we might as well experiment with Mr. Samuel. If all things end up like we hope, we have a physical & intimidating shot blocker on the inside, two actually...I left out Hassan, but I doubt he plays much anyways. If things go well with Samuel, who knows...maybe we extend him, of course I don't want to overpay, we don't want to do that with all our cap flexibility, and go from there, if we see VAST improvement then we can say we were fine with watching our youngins and their development. Overall, I don't want someone who does not want to be here, Melo just seems like Bosh lite, different positions, loyal...no & money hungry.
Since this is now apparently a TMac discussion, my opinion on the matter is that TMac was a very very good player with a career that was unfortunately cut short by injuries. He's played for three teams in his career (I'm not counting last season's short stint with the Knicks). Of those three teams, two of them were never close to being contenders. That he even got them to the playoffs at all was an accomplishment. Houston has a team built around TMac and Yao. We'll never know how good that pairing could have been since one or the other of them was always getting injured. His first year in Houston they lost a 7 game series in the first round. His second year Yao was injured and they didn't make the playoffs. His third year they lost a 7 game series again. Then there was a 6 game series loss and he's been injured ever since. That team never had enough ammunition around Yao and TMac to beat a good team in the playoffs, but they took some very good teams to the brink almost every year.
It's a distant memory now when either Yao or TMac were playing at 100%, but when they were they were both elite players in the league. The numbers TMac put up on those Orlando teams are pretty unbelievable. I think ultimately TMac's reputation is always going to be unfairly underrated because of the injuries and because he never had a team around him that could get over the hump. I'd compare him to guys like Chris Webber and Penny Hardaway in that regard. If you saw them in their prime they were hall-of-fame players. But that prime didn't last very long and it didn't include any championships.
It's a distant memory now when either Yao or TMac were playing at 100%, but when they were they were both elite players in the league. The numbers TMac put up on those Orlando teams are pretty unbelievable. I think ultimately TMac's reputation is always going to be unfairly underrated because of the injuries and because he never had a team around him that could get over the hump. I'd compare him to guys like Chris Webber and Penny Hardaway in that regard. If you saw them in their prime they were hall-of-fame players. But that prime didn't last very long and it didn't include any championships.
Damn the off-season NO more t-mac smack please. Bringing this thread back in 3 2 1
Kings to be involved in the Carmelo trade?
Kings to be involved in the Carmelo trade?