Kings to be involved in the Carmelo trade?

[mr. moustache]

http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/kings/archives/2010/08/casspi-israel-q.html

If they're involved, I see them facilitating a trade in exchange for their cap-space and/or youth/picks. I don't see 'Melo coming to Sac. Who knows though. Only a handful of teams could give Denver remotely comparable value and the Kings are one of them.

 

[fnordius]

Considering what we'd have to give up to get him, I don't think I'd be interested anyway. I think the team's in pretty good shape right now, and the deals I've seen proposed generally revolve around trading away 4 developing players and maybe a first round pick or two. I just can't get excited about that. We finally have a reasonably balanced team with a bit of depth, let's not mess with it.

 

[Bricklayer]

That was basically just an assurance from Ailene Voison that we would be involved, which is to say no assurance whatsoever.

And the thing is, given that Denver wants youth/pikcs, I don't see how/why we would be involved unless Melo was coming here. What else involved in the trade could possibly come our way that would inspire us to give up our kids and picks? We are sitting pretty. If Melo himself were on the way here I could see us parting with some of our assets for a player of that magnitude. But if he's not, who else could be involved in such a trade that would make us break up a very promising young team before its even had achance to show its stuff? Don't see it.

 

[JB_kings]

I don't think it's as much about what the Kings would have to give up as it would be about Carmelo and what kind of extension could be worked out - if any. I think the Kings have a huge expiring in Dalembart and some nice pieces where they have depth to offer in exchange. The problem is adding a huge salaried Carmelo to a team where you might end up having to pay Tyreke and DMC a huge salary as well down the line in a few years. There would be no trade where Tyreke or DMC is involved. But if he could be had for Dalembart and Casspi plus a first round pick. Then you might jump on that.

 

[Section 101]

I'd rather have Billups for Dalembert than Melo.

 

[LPKingsFan]

This is idle speculation, not reporting. Title of thread should be edited to reflect as such.

 

[fnordius]

I'd rather have Billups for Dalembert than Melo.

Dude turns 34 in a few weeks. He might be better than Dalembert as our (one year) veteran leader, but I can't see a young team taking him on as much more than that without regretting it.

 

[The Hammer]

I'd do it for Dalembert, either Casspi/Donte, and a first round pick. Not much more than that, though. The Casspi/Donte thing would be tough, but then again, it's Melo, and one of C/D will remain with us, and that trade would make us an instant contender, and quite likely and literally save the franchise in/for Sacramento. So yeah, I'd do that. We're pretty much talking instant sellouts, win streaks, playoffs, etc. You know, like the good old days? Back to normal in other words.

 

[CruzDude]

Bajaden and I chatted about this a bit and the one word that came to the top of the pile about getting Melo was "Chemistry". Would he be able to fit in with our "kids" on and off the court. Also there is the issue of his wife LaLa and her desire for the Hollywood and real LA LA connection. The Maloof's Las Vegas connection is there but.........? Since he can't get where he wants, Knicks or Bulls, the Kings and Clips may be the only teams that can offer Nuggets what they want. But is he coming here? No way, not yet. I think the Nuggets are just threatening him to help their negotiations.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

But if he could be had for Dalembart and Casspi plus a first round pick. Then you might jump on that.

All indications are that the Nuggets would be interested in salary relief, which is why their preferred destinations would be NJ/Minny/Sacto - three teams with young cheap talent and the cap space to absorb a lot of extra money in a one-sided deal. As such, Dalembert probably does not interest them. But any way you look at it, Carmelo still holds all the cards, because he can agree/decline to sign an extension as a condition to the trade, and nobody is going to give up huge value for a one-year rental. I expect Carmelo will want to go to New York, so he will likely end up as a Net when all is said and done, but it's nice for the Kings to have a bit of hope to grab him.

 

[Bricklayer]

Frankly trading Dalembert doesn't appeal to me much either. I remain unpersuaded on that point. Up until the moment we got lucky in the draft, Dalembert was brought in to be our ANSWER to half a decade of pathetic interior defense, and anybody who thinks we are ever going to be any sort of contender without that interior defense just doesn't understand the league. Melo or no Melo if we can't stop people we are the same sad Kings people have been laughing at as soft for 25 years now (even during the few years there when we weren't). Its enough already. If Melo comes the logically expendable body is Landry -- more of a tweener, about Melo's size actually, post play would be duplicated, even the same age.

 

[bajaden]

Frankly trading Dalembert doesn't appeal to me much either. I remain unpersuaded on that point. Up until the moment we got lucky in the draft, Dalembert was brought in to be our ANSWER to half a decade of pathetic interior defense, and anybody who thinks we are ever going to be any sort of contender without that interior defense just doesn't understand the league. Melo or no Melo if we can't stop people we are the same sad Kings people have been laughing at as soft for 25 years now (even during the few years there when we weren't). Its enough already. If Melo comes the logically expendable body is Landry -- more of a tweener, about Melo's size actually, post play would be duplicated, even the same age.

I tend to agree with you on Dalembert. We have a one year rental to see how he fits and how much impact he can have with the team. With Dalembert, along with Cousins added to the rebounding of JT, we should improve dramaticly in both offensive and defensive rebounding. Inprovement in both those areas could lead to as many as 10 to 15 more wins when you consider that we lost between 20 and 30 games last year by 8 points or less. Dalembert also improves our interior defense to the extent of night and day, which affects how everyone else plays defense. Its easier to gamble in the passing lanes when you know there's a legit goaltender back there. Bottom line is, we may well want to resign Dalembert at seasons end. I'd at least like to find out..

 

[Section 101]

Dude turns 34 in a few weeks. He might be better than Dalembert as our (one year) veteran leader, but I can't see a young team taking him on as much more than that without regretting it.

And how much would you regret melo at 3 years $65 mil? Thats $21.67 mil per year. That's why I say I'd rather have Billups.

 

[Kings Faithful]

And how much would you regret melo at 3 years $65 mil? Thats $21.67 mil per year. That's why I say I'd rather have Billups.

If it meant vying for a championship for the next several years I wouldn't regret it at all...

 

[LPKingsFan]

I know this probably belongs in the other forum, but since this thread is speculating on how Kings could get involved, I'll offer up this three-way, based on the probability that Melo would rather go to Los Angeles, but that Denver would rather have a large expiring than Kaman's deal:

Denver out: Anthony
Denver in: Gordon, Aminu, Dalembert

LAC out: Gordon, Aminu, Kaman
LAC in: Anthony

Kings out: Dalembert
Kings in: Kaman, Afflalo

Denver gets two nice young pieces and an expiring for Melo, the Clippers get their star while keeping Griffin, and the Kings trade out Dalembert's expiring for a longer contract (but similar defense) in Kaman while netting Afflalo (expendable in Denver because of Gordon's arrival) for their willingness to accommodate.

 

[funkykingston]

I have a hard time being onboard with a trade for Anthony right now.

Make no mistake about it, he is a beast offensively. He physically dominates defenders in a way that only superstar scorers can. Midrange, taking it to the hoop, posting up - he's got a huge arsenal.

But I look at the Kings and see a team that has been completely revamped. A second year superstar in the making who, if his jumpshot really is improved, could be nearly unstoppable. A rookie with questions to answer but also with as much potential as I've seen in a young big man. The veteran shotblocker and rebounder we've all begged for years for Petrie to get comes over in a trade. A still developing swiss army knife in Donte, a talented high energy SF in Omri, a PF who is still figuring it all out in JT, a project with tantalizing gifts in Whiteside and some still young veterans with a lot to offer in Landry, Beno and Cisco.

On paper, I love what Geoff did this summer. LOVE. And I want to see what this collection of talent can do when the season starts. I don't want to trade Dalembert - not after years of the worst interior defense I've every seen. I don't want to break up the DeMarcus/Tyreke pairing before it has a chance to develop. Maybe Cousins is a bust. Maybe. But maybe he and Tyreke form a devestating inside/outside combo. I'd MUCH prefer that to a superstar PG/SF combo. If the deal were Omri, Landry and picks then maybe I change my tune but I think the Kings would have to give up too much to make this happen.

I'm generally in favor of acquiring as much talent as possible so I'm surprised to see that I feel this way but I'd like to see this young Kings team suit up for a few games before blowing it up to grab Carmelo. Even without worrying about a future CBA and the ability to keep the "core" of Evans, Cousins and Anthony together and retain a few roleplayers, I'm wary of the idea of the Kings dealing for Carmelo.

Given his play in Denver, Carmelo would be taking the ball out of Evan's hands far too much for my liking. Not to mention taking shot and touches from Cousins. He doesn't really give the team the outside shooting it needs and I worry that the biggest thing he provides (scoring) is not an area that the Kings needs as much help as defense and rebounding.

I'm not arguing that Anthony isn't a great player. And he could (depending on what the Kings gave up) be a great piece for them and push this team forward. I'm just saying that after all the changes I'd like to see what this new Kings team is all about before shuttling off pieces to trade for Anthony.

 

[Gabriel]

I'm pretty surprised that a lot of Kings fans are marking Melo off and saying the team is "ok as is." Yes, some of our guys have a chance to have a bright future ahead of them, nobody knows. But sometimes you have to look at things on paper. This team didn't reach 30 wins last year. Tyreke is great, but he's still a kid. Carmelo Anthony is a superstar player who wins ball games. This is not a role player we're talking about. If the Kings spend money on this man, that is money well spent. I would love to see him in a Sacramento jersey. How could you not want a player of his caliber? Yes, of course we're going to have to give up some of our guys, but when your team hasn't even been in contention for a playoff spot, you can afford that. Carmelo Anthony will turn this team into a playoff-caliber team immediately. Tyreke's stats maybe not flourish, but playing a top 5 player in the league, his learning curve will. I can't speak for anyone else, but I want to see the Kings in the playoffs and making some noise.

 

[funkykingston]

Why do I keep seeing trade scenarios where the Kings end up with Afflalo? A decent player sure, but a backup for the Kings and not worth helping another team get Anthony. Especially when the other part of the trade is basically Dalembert for Kaman. Kaman is more skilled offensively (I like his post game a lot) but not the interior defender or shotblocker Dalembert is. Plus his deal is a year longer and he's owed 12.2 million next year.

Quite frankly, if I'm Anthony I'm dictating exactly where I go by simply telling any team I'm not interested in that I won't sign an extension there. If he does so, Carmelo can basically dictate exactly where he goes. And my guess is that won't be the Kings. As mentioned in my previous post, that wouldn't break my heart.

 

[funkykingston]

Carmelo Anthony is a superstar player who wins ball games. This is not a role player we're talking about. If the Kings spend money on this man, that is money well spent.

You could argue about whether Anthony is really a superstar player, but he's no doubt an offensive force and a go to scorer on virtually any team. That said, it isn't just about the money ($20+ million for the next few seasons) but a question of what the Kings have to give up to get him. And as I just mentioned, Anthony has to WANT to play for the Kings. If he doesn't want to sign an extention in Sacramento, there's absolutely no reason to trade for him and lose him after one season.

 

[Gabriel]

You could argue about whether Anthony is really a superstar player, but he's no doubt an offensive force and a go to scorer on virtually any team. That said, it isn't just about the money ($20+ million for the next few seasons) but a question of what the Kings have to give up to get him. And as I just mentioned, Anthony has to WANT to play for the Kings. If he doesn't want to sign an extention in Sacramento, there's absolutely no reason to trade for him and lose him after one season.

Superstar or not, he's one hell of a player. That's true, he's got to be on board, I should have included that part.

 

[Jose]

Well, the whole thing has made its way to RealGM:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68926/20100831/kings_expected_to_make_play_for_anthony/

 

[Bricklayer]

I have a hard time being onboard with a trade for Anthony right now.

Make no mistake about it, he is a beast offensively. He physically dominates defenders in a way that only superstar scorers can. Midrange, taking it to the hoop, posting up - he's got a huge arsenal.

But I look at the Kings and see a team that has been completely revamped. A second year superstar in the making who, if his jumpshot really is improved, could be nearly unstoppable. A rookie with questions to answer but also with as much potential as I've seen in a young big man. The veteran shotblocker and rebounder we've all begged for years for Petrie to get comes over in a trade. A still developing swiss army knife in Donte, a talented high energy SF in Omri, a PF who is still figuring it all out in JT, a project with tantalizing gifts in Whiteside and some still young veterans with a lot to offer in Landry, Beno and Cisco.

On paper, I love what Geoff did this summer. LOVE. And I want to see what this collection of talent can do when the season starts. I don't want to trade Dalembert - not after years of the worst interior defense I've every seen. I don't want to break up the DeMarcus/Tyreke pairing before it has a chance to develop. Maybe Cousins is a bust. Maybe. But maybe he and Tyreke form a devestating inside/outside combo. I'd MUCH prefer that to a superstar PG/SF combo. If the deal were Omri, Landry and picks then maybe I change my tune but I think the Kings would have to give up too much to make this happen.

I'm generally in favor of acquiring as much talent as possible so I'm surprised to see that I feel this way but I'd like to see this young Kings team suit up for a few games before blowing it up to grab Carmelo. Even without worrying about a future CBA and the ability to keep the "core" of Evans, Cousins and Anthony together and retain a few roleplayers, I'm wary of the idea of the Kings dealing for Carmelo.

Given his play in Denver, Carmelo would be taking the ball out of Evan's hands far too much for my liking. Not to mention taking shot and touches from Cousins. He doesn't really give the team the outside shooting it needs and I worry that the biggest thing he provides (scoring) is not an area that the Kings needs as much help as defense and rebounding.

I'm not arguing that Anthony isn't a great player. And he could (depending on what the Kings gave up) be a great piece for them and push this team forward. I'm just saying that after all the changes I'd like to see what this new Kings team is all about before shuttling off pieces to trade for Anthony.

Now of course I suggested Omri/Landry + picks as my take it or leave it offer in the thread in the Personnel section, but pretty much everything you said here mirrors my feelings on this opportunity, right down to the surprise that i am not more enthused given my steadfast beleif that stars wins titles for you.

 

[fnordius]

Carmelo Anthony is a superstar player who wins ball games.

There is something about him that bothers me, though.

He is #2 in the NBA for FG attempts/game, at 21.8, but only #37 in points-per-shot, at 1.29. That's identical PPS to what Kevin Martin was doing during his pre-trade slump, but Carmelo takes 50% more shots than Kevin.

What makes anyone think that would work for our team?

 

[est.1999]

I don't care how you slice up your stats or where you get them or even whether Carmelo would work with this team, he should never ever be included in the same sentence as Kevin Martin.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm pretty surprised that a lot of Kings fans are marking Melo off and saying the team is "ok as is." Yes, some of our guys have a chance to have a bright future ahead of them, nobody knows. But sometimes you have to look at things on paper. This team didn't reach 30 wins last year. Tyreke is great, but he's still a kid. Carmelo Anthony is a superstar player who wins ball games. This is not a role player we're talking about. If the Kings spend money on this man, that is money well spent. I would love to see him in a Sacramento jersey. How could you not want a player of his caliber? Yes, of course we're going to have to give up some of our guys, but when your team hasn't even been in contention for a playoff spot, you can afford that. Carmelo Anthony will turn this team into a playoff-caliber team immediately. Tyreke's stats maybe not flourish, but playing a top 5 player in the league, his learning curve will. I can't speak for anyone else, but I want to see the Kings in the playoffs and making some noise.

And again, Melo is not a Top 5 player in this league. He's mainly just a scorer, and coming into a more reasonable offensive system, even that will likely be depressed somewhat. Would not be at all surprised if Tyreke was better than him THIS YEAR, let along going forward. The difficulty here is precisely that Melo is not a make you win by himself player. He is potentially a great support star, but not if he disrupts your carry you stars, and that's why its hard to evaluate what to give up for him. That and the attitude concerns of course.

 

[fnordius]

I don't care how you slice up your stats or where you get them or even whether Carmelo would work with this team, he should never ever be included in the same sentence as Kevin Martin.

Hey, at least I didn't compare Darko with Vlade! :-D

 

[Gabriel]

I don't care how you slice up your stats or where you get them or even whether Carmelo would work with this team, he should never ever be included in the same sentence as Kevin Martin.

+5

 

[funkykingston]

It may not be fair to compare Anthony with Martin, but the fact is that Carmelo is a volume scorer who is used to having the ball in his hands. Evans is not a bring the ball up and dump it into your star type guard. He's a ball dominant player who creates assists by attacking the defense. Neither is the kind of player to stand out at the three point line and knock down open jumpers when the defense converges on the other. On paper they aren't great compliments for one another.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Why do I keep seeing trade scenarios where the Kings end up with Afflalo? A decent player sure, but a backup for the Kings and not worth helping another team get Anthony.

I can sum up why you keep seeing trade scenarios where the Kings end up with Afflalo in two words: Doug Christie. People see Afflalo as an outstanding perimeter defender who has a reliable outside shot and no glaring weaknesses. Is he a role player? Yes. But you can't have five stars on one team, and Afflalo is perceived to bring the same type of attributes that Christie did. Maybe Afflalo's peak will not reach Christie's peak - that's very likely as Christie was very good at what he did - but he is one of the few players out there who appears to have that sort of perimeter defensive role player potential. That's why people are interested in getting him.

 

[Kingster]

Carmelo is the only player in the NBA that I've seen match up physically with Lebron. Unlike others I've seen, he's not intimidated in the least by LBJ. That said, when Coach Karl went down with cancer, he didn't step up into a leadership role and the whole team went down the tubes. So let's say fortitude isn't his strong point. And he seems like he gets bored easily. If he puts his mind to it, he can be great. But can he?