Who Should Start at Shooting Guard?
- Thread starter ockingsfan
- Start date
I second Mike Miller, and if not then let Cisco start and fill in the back up role with a Wesley Mathews type player. Perhaps from summer league. I don't feel any urgency here. Its a hole, but not a very deep one, and it can be filled later. One player of interest might be Leandro Barbosa. It appears the Suns are trying to clear space and are willing to trade him for a hersey bar and a lotto ticket. The problem is that he's a little pricey with over 7 mil a year due for the next two years. He does have a player option on his last year, but its doubtful he'll opt out with the new CBA looming.
This totally works for now. I assume we'll have another body who can play the 2 and shoot a bit, even if he's waiver-wire level. There's no need to pack the wing positions with another significant guy unless there's a no-brainer bargain. I'd rather just see how these combinations work for a full year next to Reke and with the new front line. Even if there's an injury and the wings get a bit thin, I'm more concerned with development this year than possibly losing a few games in this situation.
Next summer, we'll be better able to assess what kind of piece we need to complete the backcourt, in concert with what our frontline and salary structure will look like going forward.
Next summer, we'll be better able to assess what kind of piece we need to complete the backcourt, in concert with what our frontline and salary structure will look like going forward.
i chose Frisco also... i think he is the vocal leader of the team.... he is one of the "glue" type player and he is the elder statesman of this team.... he hustles, but plays a little out of control at times.... maybe if he starts, he will calm down a bit, since he won't have to make an immediate impact, like he does coming off the bench...
frisco can handle the ball and shot the three pretty well.... he gives the kings better size than beno and allows beno to back up the point guard and shooting guard....
donte is intriguing, but he is not a good ball handler and is much better suited for the small forward
frisco can handle the ball and shot the three pretty well.... he gives the kings better size than beno and allows beno to back up the point guard and shooting guard....
donte is intriguing, but he is not a good ball handler and is much better suited for the small forward
Francisco Garcia.
Because if he starts and finishes the season as the starting SG it means the Kings will exceed my expectations. Same with Cousins at center.
As I see it, the most likely starting lineup at the beginning of the season would be:
C Dalembert
PF Landry
SF Casspi or Greene
SG Evans
PG Udrih
Beno and Tyreke could be listed the other way but we know how they play together.
To me, the BEST case starting lineup would be:
C Cousins
PF Thompson
SF Casspi
SG Garcia
PG Evans
If that were the starting lineup for the Kings it would mean a number of things (assuming injuries aren't forcing any of those decisions) that would all be good:
1) It would mean that Garcia was a good pairing with Tyreke. Handling the ball, defending, passing, knocking down open shots and punishing teams that tried to switch their PG on to him. And it would mean that Garcia is a better option than Udrih. Considering how well Beno played with Tyreke this could only be a good sign if Garcia works even better.
2) It means Cousins is good enough to be the starter. The sooner that happens the better, for his development and for the team
3) It means Casspi established himself as the starter at SF. Which frees up Donte to sub at SG, SF, and occasionally PF.
4) It means Landry back to being a sparkplug off the bench and better rebounding with JT as a starter. Hopefully it would also mean that JT has cut down on boneheaded plays.
I am hoping to see that starting lineup sometime this season. And if that's the group that consistently starts games in 2010-2011 then I think it means the Kings will take a big leap forward.
Because if he starts and finishes the season as the starting SG it means the Kings will exceed my expectations. Same with Cousins at center.
As I see it, the most likely starting lineup at the beginning of the season would be:
C Dalembert
PF Landry
SF Casspi or Greene
SG Evans
PG Udrih
Beno and Tyreke could be listed the other way but we know how they play together.
To me, the BEST case starting lineup would be:
C Cousins
PF Thompson
SF Casspi
SG Garcia
PG Evans
If that were the starting lineup for the Kings it would mean a number of things (assuming injuries aren't forcing any of those decisions) that would all be good:
1) It would mean that Garcia was a good pairing with Tyreke. Handling the ball, defending, passing, knocking down open shots and punishing teams that tried to switch their PG on to him. And it would mean that Garcia is a better option than Udrih. Considering how well Beno played with Tyreke this could only be a good sign if Garcia works even better.
2) It means Cousins is good enough to be the starter. The sooner that happens the better, for his development and for the team
3) It means Casspi established himself as the starter at SF. Which frees up Donte to sub at SG, SF, and occasionally PF.
4) It means Landry back to being a sparkplug off the bench and better rebounding with JT as a starter. Hopefully it would also mean that JT has cut down on boneheaded plays.
I am hoping to see that starting lineup sometime this season. And if that's the group that consistently starts games in 2010-2011 then I think it means the Kings will take a big leap forward.
Beno starts at PG and Reke at SG.
Reke will never be a true PG and therefore should not be played in that position for any reason. (insert an open can of worms here)
Reke will never be a true PG and therefore should not be played in that position for any reason. (insert an open can of worms here)
I guess it's Cisco's position to lose if you assume Tyreke is playing point. Thing is -- and this isn't a knock on Cisco, because I appreciate his intangibles (leadership, courage, etc.) -- I'm not quite sure what it is that recommends him as a starting-caliber shooting guard. He has hit a couple of memorable shots, but is really just OK at most aspects of the game. Even discounting last year's freak accident, he has missed, on average, about 10 games a season. And his assist-to-turnover ratio is poor even for a non-point guard. I'm willing to give him a chance at starting, but the fact that we're talking about starting either Beno or Cisco points out to me the Kings' lack of depth at guard. Now that they've at least apparently addressed the issue of competent big men through the draft and trade for Dalembert, I'd like to see them get another guard who has an NBA resume through free agency. Miller would be high on that list, as would Foye, Reddick and Robinson, to name a few.
Totally agree! I think we're all so excited about the moves we've made to improve the front court (which has been a major weakness), that we've really started overvaluing Beno and Cisco. All this talk that the minutes are taken, that we just need to sign a couple guys out of summer league, etc. to me are a little off.
I'm not suggesting we overspend on a guard or that we need another "star" at the 2 guard, I just think that position is in no way settled for the long term.
I'm not suggesting we overspend on a guard or that we need another "star" at the 2 guard, I just think that position is in no way settled for the long term.
Right. I think what we're talking about is a journeyman who can get them through the night if someone gets hurt, etc. (where's Jon Barry when you need him)? What I like about Reddick and Robinson is that they bring distinct things to the table (3-point shooting and the ability to change the game's tempo, respectively). But filling out the guard line with a "find" in training camp, I think, is a step backward after the perceived progress they've made recently.
I don't think anyone overvalued Beno or Cisco. I know I didn't. It just so happened that our biggest weakness was in our frontcourt. We apparently have fixed that problem. At least I hope so, and I believe so. That doesn't suddenly make Beno or Cisco any more or less of a player. I don't look at either of them as a weakness. I just look at their positon and I don't see any depth at the moment. Now if you were to ask me if I think either one of them is a starter long term, I would probably lean more to Beno than Cisco. But unfortunately that starting spot has been taken already. I thought Beno played very well last year, and got better as the season progressed. Cisco on the other hand never got off the ground.
So its the SG position I worry about. Especially with Cisco's recent injury history. Hopefully he'll be fine this season. But I don't think we can count on that. When Cisco is healthy he's more than adequate at SG. He'll never be a game changer, or impact player. But not everyone has to be.
So its the SG position I worry about. Especially with Cisco's recent injury history. Hopefully he'll be fine this season. But I don't think we can count on that. When Cisco is healthy he's more than adequate at SG. He'll never be a game changer, or impact player. But not everyone has to be.
Stockton is generally considered to be among the top 5 PGs in NBA history, so comparison with him is always going to be a little skewed. Just the same, since he retired, some have considered the following to be examples of PGs who were more than role players:
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
You could also say the same thing about the 5, because, like the 1, it's hard to fill with a franchise player. One could argue that Shaq and Dwight Howard have pretty much been it since Olajuwon retired. But that doesn't mean that traditional Cs are worthless now.
SGs and SFs are, relatively, a dime a dozen. That doesn't prove anything about the value of their position, though. Just that there are a lot of 6'6" guys who can score.
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
You could also say the same thing about the 5, because, like the 1, it's hard to fill with a franchise player. One could argue that Shaq and Dwight Howard have pretty much been it since Olajuwon retired. But that doesn't mean that traditional Cs are worthless now.
SGs and SFs are, relatively, a dime a dozen. That doesn't prove anything about the value of their position, though. Just that there are a lot of 6'6" guys who can score.
Last edited:
I forgot about Jason Kidd, and would agree that he would be considered a "true PG". I can't agree with you on Payton or Paul. Both are players that are good at setting up their teammates, but would consider both of them as more or a score first PG. Nash has kind of become more of what is considered a prototypical PG late in his career, but was always more of a scorer early on. The point I was trying to make is that what many people refer to as a "true PG" is not only very rare, but not even what they truly want leading their team (unless they have a superstar playing another position). Tyreke may not be the prototype when you think of a PG. But then neither was Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Oscar Robinson, Nate Archibald, Walt Frasier, etc. Most of the time when you find a "true PG", it ends up being a player like Chris Duhon. Not a bad player, but would you rather have him or Tyreke?
I don't know that we disagree on the subject, I just know that we have a budding superstar playing PG for us and I see no reason to try and move him to a different position simply because he plays it a little differently than what some consider the norm. I prefer to build around him which is what I believe Petrie is trying to do. I am just glad we got lucky enough to get Cousins as well to fill up the other of the two toughest positions to fill. Hopefully, the Kings have found their foundation to build on for a lot of championships to come.
I don't know that we disagree on the subject, I just know that we have a budding superstar playing PG for us and I see no reason to try and move him to a different position simply because he plays it a little differently than what some consider the norm. I prefer to build around him which is what I believe Petrie is trying to do. I am just glad we got lucky enough to get Cousins as well to fill up the other of the two toughest positions to fill. Hopefully, the Kings have found their foundation to build on for a lot of championships to come.