Draft Combine Measurements !!!!
- Thread starter Peter_Gibbons
- Start date
It is. I predict that he'll be picked about halfway between #5 and #33, by a team that needs an athletic young SF. 
I wish we had some pleasant surprises in our range. Somebody please tell me that they got Parakhouski's arm measurements wrong.
I wish we had some pleasant surprises in our range. Somebody please tell me that they got Parakhouski's arm measurements wrong.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1014630&sid=3639a53c9f2deedf0d1f3124714083d0
Just at first glance it seems Johnson had the highest no step vertical of the lot.
Just at first glance it seems Johnson had the highest no step vertical of the lot.
So was he really getting torched on the perimeter like all the scouting reports seem to say? I hadn't really paid much attention to him other than to notice hed' put up a monster statistical season, small conference or not. Then at the combine I thought, wow, nice wingspan on that guy. NOW, all of a sudden he's the best run and jump SF prospect too???
I think you are correct to a certain extent. Obviously you don't see Love exploding around the hoop for monster dunks. Durant tested out slow and with poor agility, but that hardly jives with what you see on the court.
My one caveat with Babbit is I wonder if there's a bit of bias in scouting here. White guys are always compared to white guys, and typically lauded for their skill and intangibles instead of their athleticism. Well what if Babbitt is more like Josh Childress with a jumper instead of Adam Morrison?
My one caveat with Babbit is I wonder if there's a bit of bias in scouting here. White guys are always compared to white guys, and typically lauded for their skill and intangibles instead of their athleticism. Well what if Babbitt is more like Josh Childress with a jumper instead of Adam Morrison?
Yeah Cousins is a beast at near 7 feet 300 lbs with 16% bodyfat and not weight lifting ever! Just imagine when he hits the weights and goes through the NBA weightlifting boot camps! He has great size! People get scared when they hear 300 lbs, but its how you carry it and your bodyfat levels. I like size and strength for a big to gain position under the basket and muscle guys off the ball. Not that these guys are tall but look at Brandon Bass and DeJuan Blair and their size and strength.
NBA DRAFT COMBINE MEASUREMENTS
Player - No step vert - Max vert - Bench press (185 lbs) - Lane agility - 3/4 court sprint
Solomon Alabi 22.5 26.0 10 13.2 3.68
Cole Aldrich 23.0 28.0 10 11.48 3.35
Aminu, Al-Farouq 27.0 33.5 13 11.29 3.3
James Anderson 30.0 35.5 14 11.86 3.19
Luke Babbitt 29.5 37.5 15 10.98 3.4
Eric Bledsoe -N-a -N-a 9 -N-a -N-a
Trevor Booker 31.0 36.0 22 11.15 3.1
Craig Brackins 26.0 35.0 6 11.65 3.39
Avery Bradley 31.5 37.5 2 11.47 3.14
Derrick Caracter 25.0 30.5 22 12.78 3.61
Sherron Collins 27.5 33.0 -N-a 12.31 3.24
DeMarcus Cousins 23.5 27.5 -N-a 11.4 3.55
Jordan Crawford 31.5 34.5 7 11.03 3.37
Ed Davis 31.0 36.0 -N-a 11.7 3.21
Devin Ebanks 23.5 32.0 6 11.69 3.44
Derrick Favors 31.5 35.5 14 11.74 3.25
Keith Gallon 23.5 28.5 14 13.44 3.7
Charles Garcia 24.5 30.5 2 11.65 3.23
Paul George -N-a -N-a 4 -N-a -N-a
Luke Harangody 24.0 28.5 23 11.83 3.41
Manny Harris -N-a -N-a 11 -N-a -N-a
Lazar Hayward 31.0 36.0 15 10.87 3.31
Gordon Hayward 30.5 34.5 10 11.73 3.22
Xavier Henry 28.5 36.5 8 11.1 3.18
Darington Hobson 29.0 34.0 -N-a 11.68 3.25
James, Damion 29.0 33.0 13 10.89 3.2
Armon Johnson 31.5 38.5 18 11.25 3.19
Wesley Johnson 32.0 37.0 16 11.43 3.14
Dominique Jones 26.0 32.5 19 10.88 3.31
Jerome Jordan -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Sylven Landesberg 28.0 32.0 8 11.59 3.36
Gani Lawal 27.0 31.5 20 11.61 3.24
Greg Monroe 25.0 29.0 15 12.1 3.35
Daniel Orton 24.0 30.5 13 12.32 3.39
Artsiom Parakhouski 25.5 26.5 16 12.07 3.33
Patrick Patterson 28.5 33.5 17 11.14 3.25
Dexter Pittman -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Andy Rautins 23.5 30.5 8 11.27 3.49
Ryan Richards 25.0 28.5 4 11.33 3.37
Stanley Robinson -N-a 37.5 6 11.65 3.23
Larry Sanders 25.5 28.0 7 12.49 3.27
Jon Scheyer -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Lance Stephenson 27.0 33.0 10 11.39 3.38
Mikhail Torrance 23.0 32.0 8 11.43 3.17
Evan Turner 27.5 34.5 9 11.06 3.27
Ekpe Udoh 31.0 33.5 10 11.15 3.29
Jarvis Varnado 29.5 32.5 3 11.61 3.37
Greivis Vasquez -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
John Wall 30.0 39.0 -N-a 10.84 3.14
Willie Warren 23.0 31.5 10 11.21 3.5
Terrico White 31.0 40.0 10 11.38 3.15
Hassan Whiteside 27.0 31.5 12 11.83 3.54
Player - No step vert - Max vert - Bench press (185 lbs) - Lane agility - 3/4 court sprint
Solomon Alabi 22.5 26.0 10 13.2 3.68
Cole Aldrich 23.0 28.0 10 11.48 3.35
Aminu, Al-Farouq 27.0 33.5 13 11.29 3.3
James Anderson 30.0 35.5 14 11.86 3.19
Luke Babbitt 29.5 37.5 15 10.98 3.4
Eric Bledsoe -N-a -N-a 9 -N-a -N-a
Trevor Booker 31.0 36.0 22 11.15 3.1
Craig Brackins 26.0 35.0 6 11.65 3.39
Avery Bradley 31.5 37.5 2 11.47 3.14
Derrick Caracter 25.0 30.5 22 12.78 3.61
Sherron Collins 27.5 33.0 -N-a 12.31 3.24
DeMarcus Cousins 23.5 27.5 -N-a 11.4 3.55
Jordan Crawford 31.5 34.5 7 11.03 3.37
Ed Davis 31.0 36.0 -N-a 11.7 3.21
Devin Ebanks 23.5 32.0 6 11.69 3.44
Derrick Favors 31.5 35.5 14 11.74 3.25
Keith Gallon 23.5 28.5 14 13.44 3.7
Charles Garcia 24.5 30.5 2 11.65 3.23
Paul George -N-a -N-a 4 -N-a -N-a
Luke Harangody 24.0 28.5 23 11.83 3.41
Manny Harris -N-a -N-a 11 -N-a -N-a
Lazar Hayward 31.0 36.0 15 10.87 3.31
Gordon Hayward 30.5 34.5 10 11.73 3.22
Xavier Henry 28.5 36.5 8 11.1 3.18
Darington Hobson 29.0 34.0 -N-a 11.68 3.25
James, Damion 29.0 33.0 13 10.89 3.2
Armon Johnson 31.5 38.5 18 11.25 3.19
Wesley Johnson 32.0 37.0 16 11.43 3.14
Dominique Jones 26.0 32.5 19 10.88 3.31
Jerome Jordan -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Sylven Landesberg 28.0 32.0 8 11.59 3.36
Gani Lawal 27.0 31.5 20 11.61 3.24
Greg Monroe 25.0 29.0 15 12.1 3.35
Daniel Orton 24.0 30.5 13 12.32 3.39
Artsiom Parakhouski 25.5 26.5 16 12.07 3.33
Patrick Patterson 28.5 33.5 17 11.14 3.25
Dexter Pittman -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Andy Rautins 23.5 30.5 8 11.27 3.49
Ryan Richards 25.0 28.5 4 11.33 3.37
Stanley Robinson -N-a 37.5 6 11.65 3.23
Larry Sanders 25.5 28.0 7 12.49 3.27
Jon Scheyer -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Lance Stephenson 27.0 33.0 10 11.39 3.38
Mikhail Torrance 23.0 32.0 8 11.43 3.17
Evan Turner 27.5 34.5 9 11.06 3.27
Ekpe Udoh 31.0 33.5 10 11.15 3.29
Jarvis Varnado 29.5 32.5 3 11.61 3.37
Greivis Vasquez -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
John Wall 30.0 39.0 -N-a 10.84 3.14
Willie Warren 23.0 31.5 10 11.21 3.5
Terrico White 31.0 40.0 10 11.38 3.15
Hassan Whiteside 27.0 31.5 12 11.83 3.54
There have been plenty of white prospects and they all haven't been labeled as unathletic. I think most good scouting sources call it like they see it.
I didn't really watch Babbit, so I'm not really saying how athletic he is one way or the other, but I'm just saying that these athletic tests have a lot of limitations. You watch them measure the no step vertical and they get to take their time, get down real low, swing their arms, and jump straight up without anyone on them. That's not how it's like in games at all. They don't get all the time in the world to load up, they don't get a clear passage upward.
I didn't really watch Babbit, so I'm not really saying how athletic he is one way or the other, but I'm just saying that these athletic tests have a lot of limitations. You watch them measure the no step vertical and they get to take their time, get down real low, swing their arms, and jump straight up without anyone on them. That's not how it's like in games at all. They don't get all the time in the world to load up, they don't get a clear passage upward.
Believe it or not, its not common for 6'11" guys that weigh 280 or 290 to have huge verticals. One thing that stood out for me about both of them is that they both had very good lane agility scores. Theirs scores matched those of a lot of the SF's and SG's. How high a big man can jump isn't all that important, unless your a shotblocking specialist. I mean if you standing reach is 9'5" and your vertical is 23 inches. I don't think your going to have trouble dunking the ball or even blocking shots for that matter. Shotblocking is more about timing and position than it is about leaping ability. Not that the leaping ability doesn't help.
No white guys are not all labeled as unathletic, and yes scouts try to call it as they see it. But they see it with biased eyes. Its so rampant its comical.
From DX: "At this juncture, Babbitt reminds us of Austin Croshere, and has the potential to be a Steve Novak type shooter down the road. "
From Chad Ford: "The question: Is he the next Adam Morrison or the next Chris Mullin?"
From Fran Fraschilla: "If there's a similar player who made the transition from inside to outside in his college career, then made the leap to the NBA, it would be Matt Harpring."
On Gordon Hayward from DX: "While his game has some scouts swearing by his ability to emerge as a Mike Miller-type complementary scorer."
Gordon Hayward from Chad Ford: "A lot of scouts have compared Hayward to Mike Dunleavy Jr"
Its not done maliciously or purposely. Its just that Babbitt looks more like Morrison than Kevin Durant so its hard to make that mental comparison. A lot of times its right, but when a guy like Babbitt measures out that long and that athletic I question the potential bias.
From DX: "At this juncture, Babbitt reminds us of Austin Croshere, and has the potential to be a Steve Novak type shooter down the road. "
From Chad Ford: "The question: Is he the next Adam Morrison or the next Chris Mullin?"
From Fran Fraschilla: "If there's a similar player who made the transition from inside to outside in his college career, then made the leap to the NBA, it would be Matt Harpring."
On Gordon Hayward from DX: "While his game has some scouts swearing by his ability to emerge as a Mike Miller-type complementary scorer."
Gordon Hayward from Chad Ford: "A lot of scouts have compared Hayward to Mike Dunleavy Jr"
Its not done maliciously or purposely. Its just that Babbitt looks more like Morrison than Kevin Durant so its hard to make that mental comparison. A lot of times its right, but when a guy like Babbitt measures out that long and that athletic I question the potential bias.
I'm not vouching for their comparisons, but comparisons aren't always about comparing an entire player to an entire player. So it's not necessarily saying anything about their athleticism, but maybe more about size and skills. That doesn't mean they have their breakdowns of their abilities wrong.
Regardless, however unreliable you think scouts interpretations are, athletic tests are even more unreliable. I'll trust what I see and what scouts see on the court before I trust athletic tests, because their athleticism in game situations is the only athleticism that is relevant.
Regardless, however unreliable you think scouts interpretations are, athletic tests are even more unreliable. I'll trust what I see and what scouts see on the court before I trust athletic tests, because their athleticism in game situations is the only athleticism that is relevant.
I think thats the image they were projecting on him. Remember he played a lot of PF at Nevada, but his game and size projects him to be a SF. He can score with the best of them. Very good outside shooter and midrange shooter. He has a good post game and very good handles for his size. He's also a good rebounder. One website said something about his having trouble creating his own shot. Not sure which Babbitt they were watching but it wasn't Luke Babbitt.
He's very hard to guard. He's great at jab stepping and getting defenders to lean in the wrong direction. Being a lefty helps since most righthanded players are used to guarding righthanded players. He has a herky jerky type of body movement when he drives to the basket that makes him look out of control, but after watching him do it over and over again and score, you realize that he knows exactly what he's doing. I always thought he played pretty good defense when I saw him, but since I was limited by how many games that were on, I just assumed that I hadn't seen him enough.. But I also read that he didn't get much elevation when he jumped. Obviously that was also wrong.
He's also a tough kid and a very intense one. Our problem is that we just don't have enough draft picks...
He's very hard to guard. He's great at jab stepping and getting defenders to lean in the wrong direction. Being a lefty helps since most righthanded players are used to guarding righthanded players. He has a herky jerky type of body movement when he drives to the basket that makes him look out of control, but after watching him do it over and over again and score, you realize that he knows exactly what he's doing. I always thought he played pretty good defense when I saw him, but since I was limited by how many games that were on, I just assumed that I hadn't seen him enough.. But I also read that he didn't get much elevation when he jumped. Obviously that was also wrong.
He's also a tough kid and a very intense one. Our problem is that we just don't have enough draft picks...
It's a shame we didn't get a top 3 pick... Favors looks like a Horford clone with a little more upside. He would've been a great pick.
As it is I think Cousins is gonna go #4 when it's all said and done leaving us with a choice between Aldrich, Johnson, and Aminu. I hope we take Aldrich out of that group but none of those 3 would surprise me.
As it is I think Cousins is gonna go #4 when it's all said and done leaving us with a choice between Aldrich, Johnson, and Aminu. I hope we take Aldrich out of that group but none of those 3 would surprise me.
I think some of the Morrison/Babbitt comparison came from both playing at smaller schools. Both being white. Both being good ourside shooters. Both having long hair flowing in all directions. But Babbitt has much more game than Morrison. He's taller and is more athletic.
I wonder, was anyone worried about Durants ability to defend when he was in the draft? How about Carmelo Anthony? Not too many if memory serves. If you draft Babbitt, your doing it for what he can do, not what he can't do. As with any player. And if what a player can do completely overshadows what he can't do. Then you don't spend a lot of time worrying about in the short term.
I wonder, was anyone worried about Durants ability to defend when he was in the draft? How about Carmelo Anthony? Not too many if memory serves. If you draft Babbitt, your doing it for what he can do, not what he can't do. As with any player. And if what a player can do completely overshadows what he can't do. Then you don't spend a lot of time worrying about in the short term.
I never said unreliable or that they were wrong. I just know scouts have biases. I don't know if those are in play here with Babbitt, but I'm suspicious after the measurements and testing numbers came out. That's all. I think you'll find it extremely rare that anyone who tested as quick, as fast and who could jump as high as Babbitt was reported on the way he was. So I'm just wondering if the reports of his quickness and defense were true.
Look at Ed Davis, right up there in vertical leap with Derrick Favors. Maybe he's our darkhorse
And in no way am I saying that Davis won't be a good, or even great player. There's a lot that goes into why a player may have a disappointing season. But you have to deal with what you saw on the court when that player did have opportunities. Its not an indictment, but its a reference.
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It's really his lateral quickness and first step quickness that gets criticized, from what I've read. From what I've seen of him (very little) he didn't appear to much much of a first step. I can't say I've seen enough of him to comment on his lateral quickness, but I don't think any of the tests can gauge that accurately. Also, you have to consider that scouts watch games and they tend to grade players' athleticism when it really matters...when you're being challenged either offensively or defensively. Someone can test real well with all the time and preparation they need, but that doesn't mean that it really benefits them that much during the game. Again, I'm not making any judgments either way on Babbit since I haven't seen him enough, but I'm just saying there's a significant difference between athleticism shown in these tests, and athleticism that shows in games against opponents and when you're tired.
