Draft Combine Measurements !!!!

Hassan Whiteside is working out with Hakeem Olajuwon!!! :D

BAck when I worked at Applebee's in the early 90s when they first opened in Sacramento I got a chance to meet up with and throw a few punches with Tony Lopez while working out because of him being best friends with the manager. Doesn't mean I would make a great boxer...

Not sold on Whiteside at all.. As for Aldrich.. ehhh disappointed in the measurements, but would like to see him workout.

Cousins is a flippin beast. No way he falls to us now.
 
I don't think the weights that their using are accurate. They said at the combine that Pittman came there in the best shape of his life and had lost a lot of weight, and yet they're using his weight from college. Same with Cousins who said he had lost weight.

Here's a question. Are they wearing shoes when they measure the standing reach? One would think so, but without knowing for sure, maybe you can't penalize Aldrich.
It depends at what point they're saying they lost weight from. Also, it's their "word" so I don't know if I'd find it entirely credible.

I'm pretty certain that they wear shoes when they measure standing reach. So I think I'm going to go ahead and penalize him ;)
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Oh I agree, I was just being nit-picky and want to make sure that if you bring up age, lets try to keep it in perspective and use this rule for this guy and this rule for that guy.

Whiteside has some HUGE red flags. The hardest one for me to swallow is that he had 10 assists last year. Kind of tells me he doesn't know what the hell he's doing out there. I'm small, slow and haven't played in about three years but I could play a run of four pickup games tomorrow and probly get more dimes then that. He's definitely not my guy at #5 currently (Monroe), however I could see some strong one on one workouts and good interviews changing that. He's got a home run skillset.
I've brought up that assist thing several times and no one seemed to care for some reason, but its a huge red flag for me. Its kind of funny. Monroe and Whiteside are the antithesis of one another. Now if we could somehow combine the two we'd have something. Your going to have to go a long way to convince me that Monroe is the best we can do at the 5th spot. I like him and I don't like him. There's no denying his offensive ability. But for the most part his offense is mostly generated from the high post. Its going to get crowded out there with him and Landry. I think our rebounding will suffer and our interior defense will continue to suffer. Now if you could put him on the floor with someone like Varnado, then it might be OK.
 
No, it's not good weight for someone who is a junior and is supposed to be a post defender. Could he improve on his weight? Yeah, but that there is still the difference between him and Okafor athetlically, which is significant, and that's even after a number of injuries for Okafor.

Trades? Free agency? It really doesn't matter because you're just going to deny any answer I give. Personally I don't care, I can accept going without a post defender if it means that we're not taking decent role players with the 5th pick. I could get behind Aldrich if I thought he could be a top post defender in the league, but I don't think that anymore. The only player that is a high quality post defender at his height and athleticism is Kendrick Perkins, and Perkins has about 2 inches more on him in standing reach and about 50 lbs in weight.
I'm not going to deny anything undeserving. If we can get someone from a trade or free agency great but we have not so far and I haven't heard about us getting close to getting anyone fitting that description this off season. I disagree with most of what you think about Aldrich and probably most of the league. There are good post defenders that are not athletic- that's not a priority to defend the post actually. Despite Perkin's advantage in height I'll bet you Aldrich will be a better shot blocker and as competent at low post D.

Sure Okafor enjoys more athleticism but what has it done for him? If he had the footwork and offensive capability it could work well for him. Tim Duncan is a guy that never looked athletic or particularly strong but he does OK.

You've given your opinion with reasons and I've given mine- I doubt any amount of discussion will bridge the gap but that's OK. I don't dislike Johnson I like him a lot, I just still want a defensive center with this pick.
 
BAck when I worked at Applebee's in the early 90s when they first opened in Sacramento I got a chance to meet up with and throw a few punches with Tony Lopez while working out because of him being best friends with the manager. Doesn't mean I would make a great boxer...

Not sold on Whiteside at all.. As for Aldrich.. ehhh disappointed in the measurements, but would like to see him workout.

Cousins is a flippin beast. No way he falls to us now.

I know what you’re trying to say but that’s a bit of a stretch. “throw a few punches” with someone at a gym is different from when a guy is committed to teaching a person specifically. Hassan said Hakeem is mentoring him right now and working out with him. Teaching young guys is something that Hakeem said he enjoys doing a lot.

Again, it’ll all depend on what these guys show at their workouts so I wouldn’t count out a guy with Hassan’s physical attributes with his weight being his only drawback yet.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I don't think the weights that their using are accurate. They said at the combine that Pittman came there in the best shape of his life and had lost a lot of weight, and yet they're using his weight from college. Same with Cousins who said he had lost weight.

Here's a question. Are they wearing shoes when they measure the standing reach? One would think so, but without knowing for sure, maybe you can't penalize Aldrich.
I agree. The stats smell. I don't like Aldrich as you know, but I did see him play against Pittman, and he didn't get overwhelmed by Pittman's bulk. If he is that weight, then he plays a lot bigger than he actually weighs.
 
I don't think the weights that their using are accurate. They said at the combine that Pittman came there in the best shape of his life and had lost a lot of weight, and yet they're using his weight from college. Same with Cousins who said he had lost weight.
Maybe the weights they had listed in college were too low....

I've brought up that assist thing several times and no one seemed to care for some reason, but its a huge red flag for me. Its kind of funny. Monroe and Whiteside are the antithesis of one another. Now if we could somehow combine the two we'd have something. Your going to have to go a long way to convince me that Monroe is the best we can do at the 5th spot. I like him and I don't like him. There's no denying his offensive ability. But for the most part his offense is mostly generated from the high post. Its going to get rowded out there with him and Landry. I think our rebounding will suffer and our interior defense will continue to suffer. Now if you could put him on the floor with someone like Varnado, then it might be OK.
Yeah I vacillate on Whiteside. There is so much I want to like, but that assist thing combined with some of the character stuff seems like a deal breaker.

I've come a long way on Monroe. I think he was stained by a mediocre freshman year and a slow system with weak surrounding talent. It helped his assist numbers, but hurt everything else. After workouts and interviews, don't be surprised if we start hearing he's moved ahead of Cousins on a lot of boards, including our own. For instance, he'd make a lot of sense for Minnesota in the triangle.

I may just be coloring in the lines, but I think he has very solid defensive potential. Just an ok shot blocker probly but with the solid awareness and feet to be a sound on one defender and good team defender. Particulaly as he fills out his frame. Rebounding he definitely needs to improve. I think he can, but that just might be the wishful thinking.

Offensively I think he will be above average the minute he hits the court. Its not just that he's got skills and moves, he's so fluid in their execution. The game comes very naturally to him. His jump shot is not good right now, but it should be in time. The form is good.

Its just hard to find big guys who are that smooth, talented and understand the game as well.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I hope he learns to shake his finger at people!
I thought that was Mutombo with the finger wag. One of my favorite games that I attended, was a game where my son and I were sitting right behind the Kings bench. Mutombo had just blocked a shot right in front of us. They had started calling technicals on Mutombo for wagging his finger at the player whose shot he blocked, calling it taunting. So in this case he instead turned toward us and the Kings bench with a big smile on his face and started wagging his finger. In the meantime as the ball was headed down toward the other end of the floor, Christie stole the ball. And as Mutombo stood there with a big smile on his face wagging his finger, Christie flew in and dunked the ball right behind his back.

It just doesn't get any better than that.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
What are the character issues with him? Any articles for us to read up on?


I'll see if I can dig up some of the articles I read on him. For one thing, ask yourself why he's a freshman and is as old as he is. Answer, he couldn't get his grades up high enough to qualify for college. finally managed to get into Marshall. Ask yourself why he's one and done despite advise from many people to stay in school because he's not ready yet. Answer, he quit studying and wasn't able to keep his grade average up. So he had no choice.

Most people accept that he at the moment has a low basketball IQ. He's good at what he likes to do. Such as block shots and score. He relies mostly on his athleticism right now, and reportedly hasn't put in the work to get better at the fundamentals. So his work ethic has been questioned. One could say that these are merely rumors, and perhaps some of them are. But if you watch him play, which I was able to do 4 times this year, you start to believe the rumors because of how he plays the game.

When Whiteside gets the ball in his hands. One of two things are going to happen. He's either going to shoot the ball, or turn the ball over. He almost never tries to pass the ball, and when he does, he's a terrible passer. He does have pretty fair handles for a guy his size, but seldom puts them to use. He doesn't have much of a post game, relying mostly again on his athleticism to get him by. Add to the picture that he's not very strong, and he's easily knocked off balance in the post, thereby affecting his shot. He has very little upper body or lower body strength.

And while he did block a lot of shots and he did rebound well. Remember that he seldom faced anyone that was as tall or as athletic as he was. Which was why I was looking forward to the Jordan/Whiteside matchup. It was my first chance to see Whiteside go up agains someone just as tall and much stronger than he was. Whiteside still managed to score around 14 pts if memory serves, but most of them were scored with his jumpshot or putbacks. When he went head to head with Jordan he lost almost every match. Jordan pushed him around like a rag doll.

Now if Jordan is a projected 2nd round pick, and who knows, he may end up being a lot better than that. But assuming that they're right, just how well do you think he's going to do against the Bynum's and the Kaman's of the world. Three years from now Whiteside could end up being pretty good and on his way to being possibly great. Or he could just as easily be on his way out of the league. I think he's a very, very risky pick if he's a lottery pick. Your betting that he gets his head on straight and really applies himself. Dedicates himself. Busts his butt to become a great player. Up to now he's shown no indication that he's willing to put in the work. And its hard, hard work. Athleticism aside, he's way behind the curve. This is a guy that doesn't know how to set a pick properly and he about to turn 21 years of age.

I'm not saying he can't do it. He has all the tools. All I'm saying is its better to look before you leap. Right now, I bet my money on Parakhouski being a much better center than Whiteside.
 
Quick question, is there a reason some players are a ton bigger when they have shoes on? Are they just putting on big shoes while the other players are not or is there something else at play?
 
I'll see if I can dig up some of the articles I read on him. For one thing, ask yourself why he's a freshman and is as old as he is. Answer, he couldn't get his grades up high enough to qualify for college. finally managed to get into Marshall. Ask yourself why he's one and done despite advise from many people to stay in school because he's not ready yet. Answer, he quit studying and wasn't able to keep his grade average up. So he had no choice.

Most people accept that he at the moment has a low basketball IQ. He's good at what he likes to do. Such as block shots and score. He relies mostly on his athleticism right now, and reportedly hasn't put in the work to get better at the fundamentals. So his work ethic has been questioned. One could say that these are merely rumors, and perhaps some of them are. But if you watch him play, which I was able to do 4 times this year, you start to believe the rumors because of how he plays the game.

When Whiteside gets the ball in his hands. One of two things are going to happen. He's either going to shoot the ball, or turn the ball over. He almost never tries to pass the ball, and when he does, he's a terrible passer. He does have pretty fair handles for a guy his size, but seldom puts them to use. He doesn't have much of a post game, relying mostly again on his athleticism to get him by. Add to the picture that he's not very strong, and he's easily knocked off balance in the post, thereby affecting his shot. He has very little upper body or lower body strength.

And while he did block a lot of shots and he did rebound well. Remember that he seldom faced anyone that was as tall or as athletic as he was. Which was why I was looking forward to the Jordan/Whiteside matchup. It was my first chance to see Whiteside go up agains someone just as tall and much stronger than he was. Whiteside still managed to score around 14 pts if memory serves, but most of them were scored with his jumpshot or putbacks. When he went head to head with Jordan he lost almost every match. Jordan pushed him around like a rag doll.

Now if Jordan is a projected 2nd round pick, and who knows, he may end up being a lot better than that. But assuming that they're right, just how well do you think he's going to do against the Bynum's and the Kaman's of the world. Three years from now Whiteside could end up being pretty good and on his way to being possibly great. Or he could just as easily be on his way out of the league. I think he's a very, very risky pick if he's a lottery pick. Your betting that he gets his head on straight and really applies himself. Dedicates himself. Busts his butt to become a great player. Up to now he's shown no indication that he's willing to put in the work. And its hard, hard work. Athleticism aside, he's way behind the curve. This is a guy that doesn't know how to set a pick properly and he about to turn 21 years of age.

I'm not saying he can't do it. He has all the tools. All I'm saying is its better to look before you leap. Right now, I bet my money on Parakhouski being a much better center than Whiteside.

Not saying you are lying, but are these facts or assumptions from your observations?
 
Quick question, is there a reason some players are a ton bigger when they have shoes on? Are they just putting on big shoes while the other players are not or is there something else at play?

Yes. It's why height without shoes is the best measurement, at least until the NBA standardizes a shoe for measurement purposes. Too bad too, because it also makes you do some math on standing reach, which is a pretty good indicator.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Quick question, is there a reason some players are a ton bigger when they have shoes on? Are they just putting on big shoes while the other players are not or is there something else at play?
Yes. Hence Cole Aldrich being two inches taller with shoes on. Clown shoes
 
Aldrich at 6'9" w/out shoes, and 236lbs is rediculous. I do not want another center that happens to weigh less than Spencer, not to mention the 6'9" part.
Eh? That's only half an inch shorter than Cousins, and it's what passes for 6'10"-6'11" in the NBA. And he has a 9'3.5" reach. At 8.5% body fat (as opposed to Cousins' 16.4%), he could just eat 50 boxes of doughnuts, put on another 7.9% body fat, and he'd be at 252 pounds with an exact flabbiness match with Cousins, if that'd make you feel better. ;) I think I'd prefer that he do it with protein and weights, though.
 
Christmas time for draft junkies. Not a lot of surprises this year on the Beasley is only 6'7" scale - but a few takeaways:

- Ed Davis has a lot better size than most of us thought...he's slightly taller than Horford. But for as skinny as he is, why the high body fat? Doesn't make sense...
- Cole Aldrich, as mentioned, is 100% undersized for the center position. While his wingspan makes up for lost height, his lack of athleticism, lateral quickness, et al, give me and many others pause about his value as a top 10 pick (roleplayer off the bench on a good team? you bet, and he'll be a great asset in that regard)
- Evan Turner doesn't possess a good wingspan or great size for the 3. Not a big deal, as he'll play the 2, but if he can't defend the perimeter in the NBA, critics might point to his lack of length
- Ekpe Udoh and Favors have great size for the 4
- Wes Johnson is a perfect 3, length/height-wise
- Alabi isn't a beastly 7'2", but still possesses good size at his actual 7'
- JaMarcus, whoops, DeMarcus Cousins and Pittman are FAT

Again, a pretty honest measurement cycle this year - in terms of height, Davis' stock rose the most IMO while Aldrich's sunk.

Looking forward to the next couple of weeks to come. The benefit of the Kings having the #5 is, at this point, we really have no clue as to who they are going to take.
 
Whiteside has to be the pick at 5 or trade down and get more picks and select him. He fixes alot of are problems shot blocking, interior defense, possible star next to reke. Some people say he is a poor mans dwight howard, but I think there wrong about that I think he is going to look more like a Lamarcus Aldridge with better defense. Which to me is pretty dam good.
 
Whiteside has to be the pick at 5 or trade down and get more picks and select him. He fixes alot of are problems shot blocking, interior defense, possible star next to reke. Some people say he is a poor mans dwight howard, but I think there wrong about that I think he is going to look more like a Lamarcus Aldridge with better defense. Which to me is pretty dam good.
The only thing he will fix is Jeff Petrie's job, or the lack of it after. Really if they pick him they will look like the biggest fools out there. I don't get why people keep asking for him, we know he has a poor work habit, we know he is a twig that gets pushed around. The only reason you want him is because he is tall, but he isn't even as tall as people claimed.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
The only thing he will fix is Jeff Petrie's job, or the lack of it after. Really if they pick him they will look like the biggest fools out there. I don't get why people keep asking for him, we know he has a poor work habit, we know he is a twig that gets pushed around. The only reason you want him is because he is tall, but he isn't even as tall as people claimed.
I personally want him because his first name's Hassan.

Honestly, there's always that one player who we all fall in love with as fans before the draft that we don't pick and as a result everyone gets angry (Rubio, John Wallace)
 
The only thing he will fix is Jeff Petrie's job, or the lack of it after. Really if they pick him they will look like the biggest fools out there. I don't get why people keep asking for him, we know he has a poor work habit, we know he is a twig that gets pushed around. The only reason you want him is because he is tall, but he isn't even as tall as people claimed.
I believe his work ethic will be fine. If he didnt care and didnt want to work why is he teaming up with Hakeem Olajuwon to work on his game as stated earlier? He wouldnt he would just go about his business.He is more than just tall he is also athletic, he runs the floor well, he has glimpses of a good shot, and plays good defense. Yes he is raw, but who isnt coming out as a freshman all the players coming out have one thing or another to work on that is just the way it is. Yea he is 20 about to be 21 but does that really matter he is still young and has very promising talent. You cant teach a lot of the things he possesses and like I said when he pulls it all together he will be a Lamarcus Aldridge with better defense and rebounding imo. Which is great they have almost Identical pre-draft measurements up to this point.
 
Quick question, is there a reason some players are a ton bigger when they have shoes on? Are they just putting on big shoes while the other players are not or is there something else at play?
They pretty much all wear platforms for the combine, I think there were only 8 out of 53 who wore shoes less than 1.25" tall (I measured my basketball shoes, they're only +7/8", but today Ed Davis was the ONLY guy to wear shoes under 1"). It works like this:

Sheron Collins, 5'10.25" barefoot.
Sheron Collins, 5'11.75" in extra tall shoes
Sheron Collins, official NBA height, 6'0".

Varnado goes from 6'8.25" to 6'10" or 6'11", Favors goes from 6'8.75" to 6'11", Vasquez goes from 6'5" to 6'7", etc. Then the NBA can make us all ooh and aah about how gigantic their players are.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Not saying you are lying, but are these facts or assumptions from your observations?
Some of it is what I've read about Whiteside. Articles in the local newspaper and the university newspaper. As you can see, I have too much time on my hands. The rest of it is what I observed while watching him play. I'll admit I only saw him play 4 times, which is a very small sample. But Marshall isn't on TV very often so its the best I could do.

One thing that bothered me early on was the way smaller players were able to move him in the post. He gave up ground very easily. Sometimes he would be out rebounded by a smaller player simply because the smaller player had better technique. All I'm saying is that he's a high risk/high reward type of player. But to a certain degree, any player that your betting on because of upside, is a risk/reward player. So it just depends to what degree.

With Aminu your betting on upside. But the risk isn't nearly as high as with Whiteside. I think the higher you pick, the less you lean toward the high risk players. As a GM once said. Coaches go into the draft looking for someone that can help the team right now. GM's go into the draft looking for players with upside. The perfect player is one that can help you right now, and still have upside. The higher you pick, the closer you should be to the perfect player with your pick.
 
Whiteside has to be the pick at 5 or trade down and get more picks and select him. He fixes alot of are problems shot blocking, interior defense, possible star next to reke. Some people say he is a poor mans dwight howard, but I think there wrong about that I think he is going to look more like a Lamarcus Aldridge with better defense. Which to me is pretty dam good.
I haven't really watched him much, but he is a huge winner as far as measurements go. 6'10.5" barefoot (NBA 7' or 7'1"), longest wingspan by a full inch (7'7"), a tied-for-best 9.5" reach, an admirable 5.5% body fat, the guy was so confident he skipped the platforms and wore shoes a mere 1" tall. :D

(Edit: okay, further research on this guy shows some potential, but also that he could easily become a cross between Shawn Bradley and Yinka Dare. Pity.)

N'Diaye came out looking pretty good, too, as did Alabi, Favors and Sanders.

That Pittman and Cousins are both a lot fatter than Tiny Gallon probably qualifies them as losers. I'd say that Udoh is too, for his surprisingly poor reach. And Parakhouski, whose wingspan is the same as 6'4.75" Marquis Blakeley, gets the annual "t-rex arms" award; runners-up: Ed Davis and Craig Brackins.

Now to find out who can jump.
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
Whiteside has to be the pick at 5 or trade down and get more picks and select him. He fixes alot of are problems shot blocking, interior defense, possible star next to reke. Some people say he is a poor mans dwight howard, but I think there wrong about that I think he is going to look more like a Lamarcus Aldridge with better defense. Which to me is pretty dam good.
Have you seen him play mi amigo? And I don't get the comparison to Dwight Howard. Howard probably eats more than Whiteside weighs everyday. As a matter of fact its an insult to Howard. This whole conversation is getting ridiculous..