Quotes from Donaghy's book (that won't be released)
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Actually there was supposed "evidence" against people back then. Membership in certain organizations labeled communist, being associated with people who were"commies," misconstruing innocent actions or words. Even analyzing their works in film, writing, etc. Remember, there were Senate hearings. But people were also primed to believe in the red menace right in our midst and out to get us.
As to the NBA reffing, it's also true that people look for the games that will reinforce their belief about NBA referees deliberately influencing game outcomes. Other games where its not an issue just won't stay in their minds. Its quite a human thing to do. Do refs make bad or questionable calls? Of course. Are they doing so conciously and intentionally? You're going to need more than Donaghy's say-so to prove that.
And I say all that while still being really, really upset about the 2002 WC Finals. Samaki Walker's late 3-pointer at the haltime buzzer that was counted (Don't count that shot a maybe Horry's shot wouldn't have mattered). Bibby brutally fouling Kobe with his nose.
Shaq getting free throws if someone breathed on him. I still cannot watch game 6.
As to the NBA reffing, it's also true that people look for the games that will reinforce their belief about NBA referees deliberately influencing game outcomes. Other games where its not an issue just won't stay in their minds. Its quite a human thing to do. Do refs make bad or questionable calls? Of course. Are they doing so conciously and intentionally? You're going to need more than Donaghy's say-so to prove that.
And I say all that while still being really, really upset about the 2002 WC Finals. Samaki Walker's late 3-pointer at the haltime buzzer that was counted (Don't count that shot a maybe Horry's shot wouldn't have mattered). Bibby brutally fouling Kobe with his nose.
Shaq getting free throws if someone breathed on him. I still cannot watch game 6.
In the NBA we see it every week of the NBA season. You say we need more evidence than one refs word. I agree. We have millions of NBA fans opinions that have witnessed it with their own eyes.
As far as not remember the games where it wasn't an issue, well of course not. It wasn't an issue. No one said EVERY game, but MANY games are.
Originally Posted by vistacruza_kings
Really dont have any idea what your talking about. How are his advertisers smart? They didnt market the book at all. The book is not even in most book store. Who is "they". Donaghy wrote this book himself, the writing is simple and and from his heart. Fairy tale? Everything in the book he also told to the FBI and and the federal court, so why would he risk perjuring himself. Hes has even taken lie detector tests for the FBI to prove his claims. And if his claims are false why wouldnt the NBA sue him up the *** to clear their name. Sure Stern had his own investegators who were employed by him create a report clearing the NBA of wrong doing, but thats about as creditable as a criminal determining guilty or innocent. Sterns comments also refuses to fully dispute that that league fixes its games, he says the NBA has done nothing criminal, well guess what David its not a crime the NBA to fix its games.
For those who havent read the book, i would suggest not commenting on it
Really dont have any idea what your talking about. How are his advertisers smart? They didnt market the book at all. The book is not even in most book store. Who is "they". Donaghy wrote this book himself, the writing is simple and and from his heart. Fairy tale? Everything in the book he also told to the FBI and and the federal court, so why would he risk perjuring himself. Hes has even taken lie detector tests for the FBI to prove his claims. And if his claims are false why wouldnt the NBA sue him up the *** to clear their name. Sure Stern had his own investegators who were employed by him create a report clearing the NBA of wrong doing, but thats about as creditable as a criminal determining guilty or innocent. Sterns comments also refuses to fully dispute that that league fixes its games, he says the NBA has done nothing criminal, well guess what David its not a crime the NBA to fix its games.
For those who havent read the book, i would suggest not commenting on it
And no one should comment on raising children, or how they would if they don't..And if you aren't a politician you should have no comment on politics, well because you don't know anything about it.
That's absurd. People can comment on the premise of the book, quotes from the book, or anything else they want to comment on about it.
Please don't opine about stuff about which you obviously have no knowledge.
Unless of course you mean its legal except for the racketeering, fraud, and conspiracy/RICO charges that would be filed. You can't present something as a fair contest, have millions of dollars spent in tickets and bets placed upon it, and then conspire to fix that event. You just can't.
Unless of course you mean its legal except for the racketeering, fraud, and conspiracy/RICO charges that would be filed. You can't present something as a fair contest, have millions of dollars spent in tickets and bets placed upon it, and then conspire to fix that event. You just can't.
Actually to do have some knowledge on the subject considering i come from a family of lawyers.
Those charges wouldn’t hold any water because while the there is no illegal activity going on.
I think the only way the racketeering charges would hold up would be if you could prove the NBA is making SIGNIFICANTLY more money by fixing teams like the Lakers into the finals, and that reasons for the fixings were for ratings and more money. And that other teams were losing money because of it. You would have to prove NBA’s motive was to make more money.
If you have knowledge of the RICO act lemme know, but for any charges to be filed wouldn’t an nba TEAM have to file the charges. I don’t think any team has the balls to sue Stern and the NBA.
Those charges wouldn’t hold any water because while the there is no illegal activity going on.
I think the only way the racketeering charges would hold up would be if you could prove the NBA is making SIGNIFICANTLY more money by fixing teams like the Lakers into the finals, and that reasons for the fixings were for ratings and more money. And that other teams were losing money because of it. You would have to prove NBA’s motive was to make more money.
If you have knowledge of the RICO act lemme know, but for any charges to be filed wouldn’t an nba TEAM have to file the charges. I don’t think any team has the balls to sue Stern and the NBA.
Well, the summary goes like this:
1) You claimed it would be legal for the NBA to fix its games.
2) One of the best-known contributors to this site, who happens to be a lawyer, informed you that your legal opinion was mistaken.
3) You, unaware that he was a lawyer, responded as if having lawyers in your family made you more of an expert than he.
You aren't required to know the background of everybody (or even anybody) on this website. But having a basic familiarity with said background often does help to stop you from putting your foot in your mouth. For instance, the person you responded to above is not a "bro". Again, feel free to ignore basic details like that if you like. However, if one does have a basic grasp it does tend to help one be taken more seriously.
1) You claimed it would be legal for the NBA to fix its games.
2) One of the best-known contributors to this site, who happens to be a lawyer, informed you that your legal opinion was mistaken.
3) You, unaware that he was a lawyer, responded as if having lawyers in your family made you more of an expert than he.
You aren't required to know the background of everybody (or even anybody) on this website. But having a basic familiarity with said background often does help to stop you from putting your foot in your mouth. For instance, the person you responded to above is not a "bro". Again, feel free to ignore basic details like that if you like. However, if one does have a basic grasp it does tend to help one be taken more seriously.
1. Yes and i still stick by my claim
2. He didnt inform me of anything, he just listed a bunch of vague charges that barely even relate.
3. I never said i was an expert, if you look back all i said was i have SOME knowledge on the subject. dont put words in my mouth
You dont know me, I dont know you. We share the same love for the Kings. thats it!
2. He didnt inform me of anything, he just listed a bunch of vague charges that barely even relate.
3. I never said i was an expert, if you look back all i said was i have SOME knowledge on the subject. dont put words in my mouth
You dont know me, I dont know you. We share the same love for the Kings. thats it!
I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth. I would be willing to qualify #3 with some sort of "was interpreted as".
This needn't be an argument - I certainly don't want to debate legalities that I have no expertise or interest in. You wanted to know why VF21 responded like she did, and I tried to explain.
This needn't be an argument - I certainly don't want to debate legalities that I have no expertise or interest in. You wanted to know why VF21 responded like she did, and I tried to explain.
I think theres some sort of "fixing" in all sports. NBA does it with fouls and no calls. MLB does (did) it by turning the other cheek to steriods. The NFL does it by throwing decade old rules out the window and protecting the QB and WR's while throwing in ridiculous calls to help out the offense any way they can. The NFL is the lesser of the 3 evils, followed by MLB and then the NBA.
Ever wonder why when you're watching Sportscenter and some team and/or player does something miraculous, they'll show a stat list of (lets say most points by a player in the 4th quarter) the top 6 players on the record list. 5 of them will be from 1997 on and the 6th will be from the 60's or something. These stat lists are always the same. A whole bunch of records from the late 90's on and then there will be one off "ex records" from the 60's, 70's, and 80's that used to be real and are now taken over by the new players who are getting help from whomever you want to blame.
The MLB HR list is now tainted with a ton of players from the steroid era who never would have cracked 400 HR's without the juice.
Take a look at the NFL's all time passer rating records. Joe Montana and Steve Young are the only Quarterbacks in the top 15 who aren't playing today. Why is that? Because the NFL has completely changed the rules to help the offense score more points. Cornerbacks aren't allowed to touch WR's anymore and linemen are only allowed to hit QB's in a couple spots.
So basically the NBA plays favorites with certain teams. MLB plays favorites with certain players and the NFL plays favorites with whoever has the ball on offense. I guess the NFL is the fairest but it's still not fair to the teams that actually have good defenses that aren't allowed to really play D anymore.
Ever wonder why when you're watching Sportscenter and some team and/or player does something miraculous, they'll show a stat list of (lets say most points by a player in the 4th quarter) the top 6 players on the record list. 5 of them will be from 1997 on and the 6th will be from the 60's or something. These stat lists are always the same. A whole bunch of records from the late 90's on and then there will be one off "ex records" from the 60's, 70's, and 80's that used to be real and are now taken over by the new players who are getting help from whomever you want to blame.
The MLB HR list is now tainted with a ton of players from the steroid era who never would have cracked 400 HR's without the juice.
Take a look at the NFL's all time passer rating records. Joe Montana and Steve Young are the only Quarterbacks in the top 15 who aren't playing today. Why is that? Because the NFL has completely changed the rules to help the offense score more points. Cornerbacks aren't allowed to touch WR's anymore and linemen are only allowed to hit QB's in a couple spots.
So basically the NBA plays favorites with certain teams. MLB plays favorites with certain players and the NFL plays favorites with whoever has the ball on offense. I guess the NFL is the fairest but it's still not fair to the teams that actually have good defenses that aren't allowed to really play D anymore.
Excellent points, and agreed all around. I wouldn't call the NBA corrupt, but it's been plainly obvious for some time now that there's a major problem with referee bias particularly as it relates to calling violations on star players. Whether certain teams are actively favored, I don't know about that -- but certainly whoever happens to have the superstar on their team is going to get the benefit of the doubt most of the time. Players were cheating with steroids long before anyone in baseball decided to do something about it because the home run totals made the game more exciting to more casual fans. So the NBA now lets players get away with traveling, palming, and jumping into defensive players to draw fouls because Michael Jordan did it and he sold a lot of tickets, nike sneakers, and gatorade. If the refs would actually call violations the players would adjust to it, but they won't do that because dunks are fun. It's just about making more money. Cheating isn't cheating if the league condones it.
