Kings team value...

[Showtime]

Just saw this:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_NBA-Team-Valuations_YrChange.html

The Kings are ranked:

22nd in team value (305 mil)
Tied for last for 1 year change (-13%)


"Revenues and operating income are for 08-09 season and are net of revenue sharing."

 

[DeMoN]

were almost even, man the trailblazers lose a ton of money.

 

[kennadog]

Only 17 teams had positive cash flow. That''s about what was written near the end of the season, when the league borrowed money to loan to teams with cash flow problems. The Kings were one of the teams that took the league's loan. Nor sure if those figures took that into account. If they did, it increased their debt/value ratio.

I suspect part of Portland's problem may be their lousy arena deal.

 

[Oprostaj]

Portland is one of few teams that doesn't have to worry about money... that owner is down right crazy. Plus that fan base is so locked into them that they'll keep turning out no matter what happens.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Portland is one of few teams that doesn't have to worry about money... that owner is down right crazy. Plus that fan base is so locked into them that they'll keep turning out no matter what happens.

Unlike, so it seems, us.....

 

[Prince_XY]

I think it's time for the Kings team to move out of Sacramento and go somewhere better ( economy-wise )

 

[Widowmaker2k]

I think it's time for the Kings team to move out of Sacramento and go somewhere better ( economy-wise )

Where exactly? Vegas? A town with a smaller market and worse economy? Anaheim? To make three NBA teams in the L.A. area? Moving the Kings doesn't make a whole lot of sense, arena issue aside. Seattle might work, however.

 

[acisking]

Unlike, so it seems, us.....

It's sad...I'm not even from Sacramento (or even the West Coast for the matter) and I used to brag to everyone who would listen how there was no arena or set of fans like those of the Kings. I don't know if I can really say that anymore...everyone's suffering through a recession, but a lot of worst teams seem to have more full stadiums. The only thing I'm hoping is that word just hasn't gotten around quite yet as to how good of a young squad Petrie has quietly assembled. Hopefully, as the year goes on, things will revert back to their old ways.

 

[Prince_XY]

Where exactly? Vegas? A town with a smaller market and worse economy? Anaheim? To make three NBA teams in the L.A. area? Moving the Kings doesn't make a whole lot of sense, arena issue aside. Seattle might work, however.

I am actually leaning towards Anaheim. Maybe if the team plays at Anaheim, Superstars will go play for the Kings. Just like you said, L.A. area. Isn't that usually the reason given by the fans why Petrie cannot get Superstars?

It's a win-win situation for the team and owners who would be nearer to their casino business in Vegas.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Portland is one of few teams that doesn't have to worry about money... that owner is down right crazy. Plus that fan base is so locked into them that they'll keep turning out no matter what happens.

Unlike, so it seems, us.....

It's because they are winning. When I moved here in 2005 I had free tickets handed to me on a regular basis for 2 seasons. Club seats with food included. And it wasn't to bad teams either. Saw the LeBrons, Mavs, Rockets (maybe they weren't so good?) a few others. Interestingly they wouldn't give me free Kings tickets even though we were well on the decline by then.

The ticket prices are also significantly cheaper for good seats as well, perhaps as much as 30-50% cheaper when looking in the lower levels, though I do have a discount through work, I don't know how much it is.

 

[Trueblood]

Only 17 teams had positive cash flow. That''s about what was written near the end of the season, when the league borrowed money to loan to teams with cash flow problems. The Kings were one of the teams that took the league's loan. Nor sure if those figures took that into account. If they did, it increased their debt/value ratio.

I suspect part of Portland's problem may be their lousy arena deal.

Portland's problem was paying a massive luxury tax fine. Steve Francis and Raef Lafrentz were still counting against the cap at nearly $30 million. They're under the tax this year so they'll make a good profit.

Unfortunately, the Kings had a 2.8 million loss but the payroll was pretty high considering how bad the record was. Hoopshype had them paying the tax. This is why the Maloofs talk about breaking even or operating in the black. They are trying to keep the payroll low while rebuilding and looking for a new arena.

I'm not going to shed a tear for these teams losing money. Dallas is one thing. They spend lavishly and don't complain but when I hear Indiana complaining despite wasting money on worthless players putting them in the tax range, I don't feel sorry for them. They put themselves in this mess.

 

[Emma]

I am actually leaning towards Anaheim. Maybe if the team plays at Anaheim, Superstars will go play for the Kings. Just like you said, L.A. area. Isn't that usually the reason given by the fans why Petrie cannot get Superstars?

The L.A. Area is the most economically viable market. But I, being a nor-cal native, would never watch a Kings game again. They'd probably change their name too. Remember the Raiders being in L.A.? Well, at east two of the Raiders fans here in nor-cal that I know don't even consider that team to be a part of the history of the Oakland Raiders. It's 800 miles and 2 distinct shifts in culture away.

And yes, that's the main excuse for why superstars don't want to come here.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Portland's problem was paying a massive luxury tax fine. Steve Francis and Raef Lafrentz were still counting against the cap at nearly $30 million. They're under the tax this year so they'll make a good profit.

They also had a 9% loan with no pre-payment option for the bulk of the 260 million dollar arena cost (I think it was $155 million, so 15 million a year in interest alone to start, I don't have an amortization calculator handy to figure out what it was 10 years later).

Allen set up a company to manage the arena finances and refused to secure the credit with his own personal wealth so it wasn't a conventional bankruptcy by any means and I'm sure it was largely designed to get out of paying 1993 interest rates that had dropped 40%.

 

[Trueblood]

They also had a 9% loan with no pre-payment option for the bulk of the 260 million dollar arena cost (I think it was $155 million, so 15 million a year in interest alone to start, I don't have an amortization calculator handy to figure out what it was 10 years later).

Allen set up a company to manage the arena finances and refused to secure the credit with his own personal wealth so it wasn't a conventional bankruptcy by any means and I'm sure it was largely designed to get out of paying 1993 interest rates that had dropped 40%.

Thanks for the numbers. I knew the general details but not the actual figures. I'll never get why someone that wealthy wouldn't just pay with cash.

And yes, Allen claiming bankruptcy is a joke. Symbollic way of blowing off interest or payments.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Thanks for the numbers. I knew the general details but not the actual figures. I'll never get why someone that wealthy wouldn't just pay with cash.

Because he can set up a new corporation, have it lose money for 10 years, use it for tax write offs and then file for bankruptcy when he doesn't like the interest terms any longer. Wish I could do that and still keep my house!

 

[Trueblood]

Because he can set up a new corporation, have it lose money for 10 years, use it for tax write offs and then file for bankruptcy when he doesn't like the interest terms any longer. Wish I could do that and still keep my house!

But if he pays with cash, shouldn't there be no interest in the first place?

 

[kennadog]

But if he pays with cash, shouldn't there be no interest in the first place?

He didn't pay cash. Why people think businessmen put up all the cash for any business is beyond me. They lose tax write-offs and they lose money by not having that money invested in something that will actully earn a decent return on investment, unlike an arena which is not a particulary good investment with private money. A double whammy to the pocketbook.

I just can't really imagine the league wants another team in the LA-Orange County area. The Clippers would likely lose fan base like crazy. Sterling is unlikely to vote to approve such a move. Vegas is extremely unlikely. Kansas City has a practically new arena the city built. I guess it would be karma if the team goes back to the city we stole it from.

Losing is not the only reason for attendence drop as anyone who was a fan since 1985. We sucked for years and still had a higher sell out streak than our last streak during the good years. By the way, Portland did lose a lot of fans for awhile with the Jailblazers.

I also noted a lot of empty seats at San Antonio last night. We're not the only ones suffering.

The team cut payroll for years after 02/03. This year we have a payroll that's slightly higher than the 02/03 payroll from 7 years ago. As far as I know the Maloofs haven't paid the luxury tax in any season since the year we let Brian Skinner go to finally get under the luxury tax that season.

Right now I think much of the problem has to do with the local media and some politicos painting the Maloofs as evil money-grubbers trying to rob the taxpayers. There's very little balance in reporting on an arena in Sacramento.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

But if he pays with cash, shouldn't there be no interest in the first place?

But in the mid-90s where everyone was touting 10% returns with "conservative" investment portfolios and Allen's a tech guy, he could make a lot more money investing elsewhere and taking the interest write offs on the loan.

 

[Trueblood]

Hoopshype reported the Kings payroll at $72 million last year and since the tax level was around $71 million, I figured that they were slightly above. Even if they weren't, $71 million is much higher than what they'll pay this year and most likely next which is why they talk about operating in the black.

Yeah, I don't want a 3rd team in LA. This is why I feel it so important to have the Clips in OC and not at Staples. You now have the potential for oversaturation.

If they have to move, which I still hope doesn't happen, I'd prefer San Jose as central valley fans in Merced, Stockton or Modesto will have access plus it's only around 115 miles from Sacramento.

 

[Ryle]

It's a win-win situation for the team and owners who would be nearer to their casino business in Vegas.

UUUUMMMMMM.......do you think the Maloofs drive back and forth to the Casino??

It's about the same flight time to Vegas from either Sac or Orange County give or take 10 minutes so I don't think it's that big of a deal.

If it was all about being in the "L.A." area the Clippers would challenge the Lakers for supremacy in the Western Conference but that hasn't happened.

 

[Trueblood]

But in the mid-90s where everyone was touting 10% returns with "conservative" investment portfolios and Allen's a tech guy, he could make a lot more money investing elsewhere and taking the interest write offs on the loan.

True but it should be noted that Allen is a horrible investor. He made his fortune gravy training Bill Gates. He had little clue on how to build the empire on his own.

Still, when you're worth $24 billion or whatever it is, these few extra bucks that these guys make off of certain investments is chump change that don't come close to making or breaking them. Throw in the fact that he loses so much on his investments and you have to wonder if he would be better off having his money sit in a cd account or something.