Grades v. Spurs 12/09/09

Kings player of the game?

  • Evans

    Votes: 12 13.2%
  • Casspi

    Votes: 64 70.3%
  • Thompson

    Votes: 6 6.6%
  • Udrih

    Votes: 9 9.9%

  • Total voters
    91
Status
Not open for further replies.

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
People will point to FTs or whatever, but in this 4 game stretch the Kings have given up 115, 115, 96 and 118 points. Guess which one we really had a chance to win? This is playing defense like we did last year. And if we continue to do it we'll end up with a record like last year too. Man up peeps!

Boxscore

Nocioni ( D- ) -- alright here we go. I went a tad easy on Noc yesterday because frankly I felt sorry for him. But the truth is he is playing like crap right now, and really has been for the last 1-2 weeks. Whatever the +/- may say, and despite being a shaky indicator I'm sure its saying unkind things, Noc was a sucking chest wound for us tonight. Started from the very beginning of the game as he was just torched on defense repeatedly by Jefferson right from the get go. Hit a couple of threes to save himself from the F here, but then blew the layup on a nice Sergio feed to start the 2nd, and compounded it by picking up the technical foul a few seconds later for throwing the ball against the basket support. Kept on forcing up shots, and bricking them, but the real damage was on the other end. Even after we took him out to hide him from Jefferson, when he returned all he had to do was guard Matt Bonner, which I am pretty sure I could do (although given the differences in our heights I might have to resort to just punching him in the privates every time he got ready to shoot). And yet again and again he foolishly left the big white stiff alone out on the perimeter to shoot the only shot he can -- the standstill three. Only played 20 minutes on the night, and it was about 19 too many. As he bricked shot after shot, and was getting lit up left and right, I really had to ask what the hell was he doing on the court? Westphal has been good about not playing the "he's a vet" card, hope he's not doing it now. Gone for the 4th however. Just an odd thing -- you can go through shooting slumps. But what Noc is going through right now is also a decisionmaking and defensive slump. And those are the very things that are supposed to stay with you, the very reasons why defensive teams > offensive teams, because you can count on them. So don't have an explanation for this.

Thompson ( B ) -- another struggling start for JT against the Spurs, and you were thinking oh no, not again. No way we could have afforded that. Got balls knocked away by Duncan, bricked his jumpers. But began to get his confidence going in the second attacking inside and out. No idea what the hell happened on a Spurs FT early in the third, but Jason stumbled across the lane on what should have been an easy rebound and let the Spurs get the O-board, which Duncan then converted from the post. One of those detail plays that just kills you. Couple of minutes later misplayed a pick and roll and left the lane wide open for George Hill to just walk right in for the layup. Able to score easily over Blair, and actually hit 2 of 2 FTs in the mid 4th and was pretty pumped about it. Woohoo! Know your FT shooting has been suck when hitting a pair is cause for a minor celebration. Played good defense on a couple of possessions against Duncan as well but was invisible as a paint defender as the Spurs shot an embarrassing 55% against us.

Hawes ( B- ) -- too finessey on his follow attempts again, but solid on the boards in the early going and kept his butt inside rather than running out and trying to out-three Bonner. Was bouncing around in there fighting, which was refreshing, but as always had to question the effectiveness on defense. Repeatedly stepped up to challenge Parker only to have him spin or whip right around him. Interestingly not in there at all in the 4th, and we went with a much rawer player in Donte instead. Not sure whether that was a good move or bad. May have been made to try to defend the three point stripe where we just got killed, but if that was the reason it failed. In any case short night for Spencer. And again nothing great about it, but nothing terrible either. Defensively he and Thompson are damn near hopeless though. That's disappointing given how much size we have there.

Greene ( B- ) -- started off the game again going right into the post and up and over Bogans with a nice strong move. While his contribtutions have been sporadic, gotta like his recognition of how he can punish guards when he is playing at OG. First haof minutes were limited however, both because of his limited overall production, and because I think we were trying to protect Reke from picking up a third against Parker. Was back with a beautiful take and dish to Hawes on the semi-break in the early third. Suprisingly got the late minutes in this one and was alternately great and terrible, and largely out of control. To tell you the truth I don't know what the heck he was doing out there in crunch time against a well oiled machine like the Spurs, but he certainly left it all on the floor and if nothing else it should be a good learning experience. Did give us a definite boost in the mid 4th with a post move over Bonner (bit of a force, but went in), and then by draining a three. Then again forced a shot late in the 4th, and again made the most of it -- really went after the board ferociously, grabbed it, posted up no less than Tim Duncan, and scored. Awesome play, but of the wild WTH variety. From that point on out it was mostly wild not so much awesome. Committed abck to back turnovers forcing action that was not there. Came back and played good defense on Jefferson, and then got the foul . But disappointingly did not challenge an open Manu layup at the 3:00 mark that really kind of killed us. To tell you the truth really don't know what to do with this grade. Could be anywhere from a C+ to a B/B+ really. Gave us enrgy, defensive effort, was efficient from the field, but was also wild and out of control at a time when you can't be. I'm going to say the overall concoction was ok but really not the sort of game you are going to beat the Spurs with. As always with Donte this season, potential all over the place, but lacked control and looked most truly the talented but wild kid on the night.

Evans ( B- ) -- thought he looked tired early in this one, and maybe 4 games in 5 nights is a bit much even for a 20 year old when you're playing big minutes and trying to carry the team. In any case, didn't seem to start the game with much bounce, and was back at the site of one of his early season struggles. Again did no look comfortable guarding Parker's quickness, especially with Parker following the Grant Hill approach to dealing with a rook -- charge right into his chest and let NBA refs' interesting interpreations of what constitutes a defensive foul get him out of the game. Actally led to us inserting Beno so that we could get Evans off of that defensive matchup after he had picked up 2 fouls. Responded with a good backcourt steal + back to back steals diving in on a dribbler. Taken out for the last couple of minues of the second quarter so he wouldn't get his third foul, and even though he had not been having a great half, that move seemed to send us into a tailspin and we might have lost the game right there in those couple of minutes as the Spurs outscored us 12-0 to close the half and turn a game where we had a narrow lead into one where we would spend the rest of the night chasing them. Able to force his way to the hoop a few times in the 3rd, but the Spurs were loaded against him. Seemed to visibly bear down and grit his teeth from the mid 3rd onward. Still looked tired, but he, and the team, were visibly clawing to try to stay in it. Good hustle play getting back on defense to swat away a Parker layup on the break after he drew the foul -- prevented the 3pt play. Began to get on the boards as well to really give us a boost and to key the break the other way. Finally got us a correctly played end of the quarter chance when he went full court in 4 seconds and converted over Bonner to close the 3rd and bring us back within 7 heading into the 4th. Missed the technical foul FT on the illegal defense in the early 4th. Could not bring us home this time. Got his drive blocked by Duncan at the 2:20 mark and that led to a Spurs runout that killed us. Followed with a bad turnover on a high pick and roll with JT. From that point on we were nearly hopelessly behind and everything had to be forced in desperation. Came back with a drive and flip, and then forced a three that was short, a forced layup that did not go, missed jumper. Just not there and another strong shooting night took a hit with the final desperation misses. Still racked up 19pts on 9-20 shooting (its a bit unclear what the Spurs have to do to you to get a foul called on them), 4rebs 5ast and 4stls (and 4 TOs). Which would be the best game of their season for most rooks. But for superook its pretty mediocre and he's largely being graded on the star scale now, not the rookie scale for the mere mortals.
 
Last edited:

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Bench

Udrih ( B ) -- initially came into this one for defense believe it or not, as Parker was a threat to get Reke in foul trouble. Well maybe not defense, as Parker torched him. But Beno's presence did let Reke play more aggressively. Did a nice job of getting in front of various Spurs for charges in the second quarter (Parker, Jefferson). Out to begin the 3rd to get better matchups. Was even playing some pretty good defense on Parker in the early third, but of course was not getting the benefit of the doubt from the refs. Picked up his scoring in the third as well as he still loves dueling with his old team -- just this year he's finally learned to do it against others too. Steady full court play earned him starter's minutes tonight, but got torched by Parker down the stretch that hurt us. We were only down 5 with 4:30 to go but just could not get over the hump because we could not get a stop.

Casspi ( A- ) -- in for defense early after Noc got killed out there, and immediately did a better job challenging Jefferson. Nice strong push
off the bench as he showed why we missed him the last night. Hit shots
inside and out, and had a really nifty fastbreak hoop where he faked off
his defender with a fake pass to Hawes. Used a second fake pass a second
later to free himself again -- nice flair we haven't seen before. Tweaked his ankle in the mid 2nd quarter, but did not go down and we did not call a timeout, and so Omri just went back on defense gimping around and just hustled and clawed, grabbed a board, stripped a ball and generally gritted it out. Began to run out of steam/mojo toward the end fo the half -- missed 2 FTs and then after we grabbed the O-board, got called for walking. Let Manu free for two 3ptrs at the end of the 2nd as well. Got long minutes after the break and was maybe our most consistent offensive weapon, converting whenever called upon. Added some grit on the defensive glass as well. Should hurt his back more often. Lost control of his man defensively late in this one to get nicked down to the minus.

Rodriguez ( C+ ) -- came in in the second and gave the Spurs a taste of their own quickness medicine, slicing and dishing. Good little offensive rebound off of his own miss in the late 2nd. Got his layup blocked on the end of half attempt, and the Spurs raced back the other way for the dunk -- another end of quarter disaster for us (and him -- Sergio seems to consistently mess those up), and again Sergio went too quick. Why go at 7 secs and leave the Spurs time? Poor first half shooting, and contributed little after the break with Beno earning the extended run tonight.

Udoka ( INC ) -- in for the last couple of minutes of the 2nd quarter as we tried to protect Reke from a 3rd foul, but we performed disastrously while he was out there


Notes: good early timeout and insertion of Casspi/Udrih changed things after our poor start. For a while there it was basically all the guys who did not help last night helping tonight. Poor last 2 minutes of the second quarter after we removed Reke proved disastrous -- we got outscored 12-0 to close the half and never could make it all the way back.
 
Last edited:
#5
Casspi was excellent tonight. Maybe rejuvenated after sitting out against NOH with back strain. One of the hardest things to do for a bench player, and rookie to boot, is play well on the road. Casspi seems to relish the challenge, heck - any challenge. Beno was good too and seemed to really steady the Kings when he was in plus hitting big shot or big assist just when things seemed to be going south fast.
 
#6
If anyone should get an A+, that person is Beno Udrih. This was his game, but no, Tyreke just had to go all star on san antonio spurs. What an idiot.
Casspi was good tonight, but this wasnt his game. His game will come sooner or later.
Just need to ask this: WTF were you thinking Westphal? Why did you put Beno out when he was the best player in the game? Why put him out and put Rodriguez in and go from -3 to -10? Stupid move on your part.

if I would be Beno, i would go to Kings owner and tell him. Trade me, i dont want to play here anymore. Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, and Donte out and any other NBA player in and we have championship team. They dont know jack about basketball.
As for Tyreke. Stop being an all star, and start playing team basketball.
 
#7
People will point to FTs or whatever, but in this 4 game stretch the Kings have given up 115, 115, 96 and 118 points. Guess which one we really had a chance to win? This is playing defense like we did last year. And if we continue to do it we'll end up with a record like last year too. Man up peeps!

placeholder...
I agree, the defence was awful for too many possessions, everytime Parker had the ball he could do whatever he wish to, also Ginobili at the end, I'm not talking about the big guys it's obvious we have problems there.
you can't exept to win games with creeping after the opponent for the whole game, thinking you're going to steal the game at the end.
parker, parker, parker.. if you see that kind of offensive domination by one player- double him with two guards, it's not the first time Parker celebrate against us, you need to focus on him, also r.mason had 6 point at the money time, hi! after one shot you see he's a threat don't let him get another one..
but what can we say.. after all ,the spurs are a better team, they can move slowly on the court and still make shots like duncan did, at the time we need to run the court like crazies youths..
the fact that we see the Kings almost win games against top teams at the road just demonstrate how we got better comparing to last year

feel free to fix me if I have english mistakes :) (I'm from Israel=GO CASSPI!) :D
 
Last edited:
#8
If anyone should get an A+, that person is Beno Udrih. This was his game, but no, Tyreke just had to go all star on san antonio spurs. What an idiot.
Casspi was good tonight, but this wasnt his game. His game will come sooner or later.
Just need to ask this: WTF were you thinking Westphal? Why did you put Beno out when he was the best player in the game? Why put him out and put Rodriguez in and go from -3 to -10? Stupid move on your part.

if I would be Beno, i would go to Kings owner and tell him. Trade me, i dont want to play here anymore. Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, and Donte out and any other NBA player in and we have championship team. They dont know jack about basketball.
As for Tyreke. Stop being an all star, and start playing team basketball.
Lol... Dude Tyreke kept us in the game in the 3rd. Beno played great too....offensively. But it was Beno not being able to stop Parker. I think they should have kept feeding Thompson the ball. But our problem wasn't offense it was defense.

Side-note....John Wall is so clutch......
 
Last edited:
#9
If a player like Tyreke, doesnt give a ball to player like Beno, when he had 15 points and score a three pointer and he was open on three point line, he doesnt deserve to be top team scorer. I play on defense and I play team basketball. But this young guy that you all so love, plays dirty basketball and just plays for his statistic and nothing else.
If he would be a team player, he would pass a ball to open guy and not shoot an impossible shot. Its that simple.
If he would play team basketball, Kings would won Spurs, but he had to go all star.
That is a team killer.
 
#11
If a player like Tyreke, doesnt give a ball to player like Beno, when he had 15 points and score a three pointer and he was open on three point line, he doesnt deserve to be top team scorer. I play on defense and I play team basketball. But this young guy that you all so love, plays dirty basketball and just plays for his statistic and nothing else.
If he would be a team player, he would pass a ball to open guy and not shoot an impossible shot. Its that simple.
If he would play team basketball, Kings would won Spurs, but he had to go all star.
That is a team killer.
I have never seem a post contain so much crap in such a confined space.

Beno is a solid player who also happens to be having a career best season but to dish crap on Tyreke is laughable.

Tyreke is THE most important reason why this team is having a better year than last year. We all saw what last year was like when we gave Beno the reponsibility of running this team.
 
#12
Its not that I dislike Tyreke. He needs to start to play team basketball and not for his statistic. He is a very good player, but he always goes all star on teams. If he would pass a ball when he sees open player infront of him, he would be much better player. But no, he just cant do that.
 
#13
Its not that I dislike Tyreke. He needs to start to play team basketball and not for his statistic. He is a very good player, but he always goes all star on teams. If he would pass a ball when he sees open player infront of him, he would be much better player. But no, he just cant do that.
 
#14
Casspi was excellent tonight. Maybe rejuvenated after sitting out against NOH with back strain. One of the hardest things to do for a bench player, and rookie to boot, is play well on the road. Casspi seems to relish the challenge, heck - any challenge. Beno was good too and seemed to really steady the Kings when he was in plus hitting big shot or big assist just when things seemed to be going south fast.
If you think about it, he is always on the road, at least during his rookie year.
 
#17
I have never seem a post contain so much crap in such a confined space.

Beno is a solid player who also happens to be having a career best season but to dish crap on Tyreke is laughable.

Tyreke is THE most important reason why this team is having a better year than last year. We all saw what last year was like when we gave Beno the reponsibility of running this team.
Take it easy on our local Jr. High point guard here. :p

On a more serious note...

Our interior defense or lack of it has really been a reason why I think teams have been scoring so high. Teams pretty much have a free shot at driving to the rim on us if they want with no fear of being blocked. I'd really love to see us with an interior defensive presence in the future. Eventually teams will stop hitting 3's at a high % on us, it was unreal tonight...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
If anyone should get an A+, that person is Beno Udrih. This was his game, but no, Tyreke just had to go all star on san antonio spurs. What an idiot.
Casspi was good tonight, but this wasnt his game. His game will come sooner or later.
Just need to ask this: WTF were you thinking Westphal? Why did you put Beno out when he was the best player in the game? Why put him out and put Rodriguez in and go from -3 to -10? Stupid move on your part.

if I would be Beno, i would go to Kings owner and tell him. Trade me, i dont want to play here anymore. Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, and Donte out and any other NBA player in and we have championship team. They dont know jack about basketball.
As for Tyreke. Stop being an all star, and start playing team basketball.
Here's the deal, dude. You're a player fan. That's fine for you but it sure irritates the crap out of those of us who are KINGS fans, first and foremost.

There are always a few of you who come around when we get a new player - it's all about your guy to the point where you post ridiculous comments and other drivel that actually ends up hurting your own guy. Why? Because some Kings fans will actually blame Beno for the silly stuff you're posting about him.

Beno is ONE PLAYER on the Sacramento Kings. I personally am very pleased with his contributions to the TEAM EFFORT but I'm going to make one thing very, very clear:

Beno Udrih is not now, nor will he ever be the kind of impact player Tyreke Evans has already become. Period. End of discussion.

I've been a Kings fan since the first day they played in Sacramento. You, I'm sure, have no real interest in the team. That's okay for you, but do me a really big favor and save the silly Beno fanboy stuff for IloveBeno.com

Thanks ever so.
 
#21
I agree with VF on this one. I can name more then one occasion last night when Beno "TRIED" to go all-star and dribbled around only to pull up for an ill-advised leaning jumper. Tyreke gave us a chance to win last night. I am first and foremost a Kings Fan not a Tyreke fan or a Beno fan, but you need to call them the way you see it and VF said it best.
 

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#22
Well to weather the storm a bit..

The kings won 17 games last season and for the past 3 seasons have had little to no, or poor coaching at best.

One of the youngest teams in the league with young players coming together giving some of the best teams in the league all they can handle, it is only a matter of time before the free throw shooting percentages increase with practice it is only a matter of time before team mates become accustomed to each other,

It is also only a matter of time before some offensive familiarity and defensive organization comes into place.

The best we can ask for is the kings to play as hard as they can, and they are, the team is diving on the floor hustling and fighting for boards against some of the all stars-super stars of the past and present..

it is only a matter of time...

 
#23
Its not that I dislike Tyreke. He needs to start to play team basketball and not for his statistic. He is a very good player, but he always goes all star on teams. If he would pass a ball when he sees open player infront of him, he would be much better player. But no, he just cant do that.
Are you serious? You played ball? So do I. I bet I can go all star on you.
 
#24
Here's the deal, dude. You're a player fan. That's fine for you but it sure irritates the crap out of those of us who are KINGS fans, first and foremost.

There are always a few of you who come around when we get a new player - it's all about your guy to the point where you post ridiculous comments and other drivel that actually ends up hurting your own guy. Why? Because some Kings fans will actually blame Beno for the silly stuff you're posting about him.

Beno is ONE PLAYER on the Sacramento Kings. I personally am very pleased with his contributions to the TEAM EFFORT but I'm going to make one thing very, very clear:

Beno Udrih is not now, nor will he ever be the kind of impact player Tyreke Evans has already become. Period. End of discussion.

I've been a Kings fan since the first day they played in Sacramento. You, I'm sure, have no real interest in the team. That's okay for you, but do me a really big favor and save the silly Beno fanboy stuff for IloveBeno.com

Thanks ever so.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

Tyreke is the future of this franchise not Beno and I am sure the reason Beno is playing so well this year is because Tyreke is there to help him out.
 
#25
So if beno scores 40 the next game and doesn't pass it to tyreke on a few occasions and beno takes 28 shots, what are you gonna say, sniper?

Just stop it man you really embarass yourself
 
#26
I've been a Kings fan since the first day they played in Sacramento. You, I'm sure, have no real interest in the team. That's okay for you, but do me a really big favor and save the silly Beno fanboy stuff for IloveBeno.com

Thanks ever so.
That site doesn't exist. :(
 
#27
resort to just punching him in the privates every time he got ready to shoot
ah... the Bruce Bowen Man to Man Defense. Very nice. Proven to be quite effective especially if guarding Wally.

Complete side note here - is the fumbling of the ball starting to become a trend? JT's handles rubbing off on others? Or just chalk it up to young players... (but then WHY is Noc a victim?)

Second side note - watching Wall v Conn. tonight, I just can't help but wonder what a player that can get so easily to the rim and finish no matter what angle he's at can help a team. The entire defense would collapse around him. I remember a lot of talk about Tyreke's inability to finish and how it's gotten better. I know he's not as athletic as Wall, but he is bigger and stronger. I can't wait to see what he'll be in a couple of years.
 
#28
Well to weather the storm a bit..

The kings won 17 games last season and for the past 3 seasons have had little to no, or poor coaching at best.

One of the youngest teams in the league with young players coming together giving some of the best teams in the league all they can handle, it is only a matter of time before the free throw shooting percentages increase with practice it is only a matter of time before team mates become accustomed to each other,

It is also only a matter of time before some offensive familiarity and defensive organization comes into place.

The best we can ask for is the kings to play as hard as they can, and they are, the team is diving on the floor hustling and fighting for boards against some of the all stars-super stars of the past and present..

it is only a matter of time...

Ahhhh yes...we DID only win 17 freaking games last year...and guess what folks, we'll probably eclipse THAT by Valentine's day, if not before...we've already won pretty much half of the first 20 games so far...and SHOULD have won a good handful of the ones we didnt. I think 30-35 exciting wins isnt too far fetched.
 
#29
If anyone should get an A+, that person is Beno Udrih. This was his game, but no, Tyreke just had to go all star on san antonio spurs. What an idiot.
Casspi was good tonight, but this wasnt his game. His game will come sooner or later.
Just need to ask this: WTF were you thinking Westphal? Why did you put Beno out when he was the best player in the game? Why put him out and put Rodriguez in and go from -3 to -10? Stupid move on your part.

if I would be Beno, i would go to Kings owner and tell him. Trade me, i dont want to play here anymore. Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, and Donte out and any other NBA player in and we have championship team. They dont know jack about basketball.
As for Tyreke. Stop being an all star, and start playing team basketball.
Ok here I go. I just took the time to review all of your posts. I had noticed a trend before, and this posts exemplifies that trend.

You need to stop dividing our team by pitting one player against another. If this was a Beno Udrih forum, that would be appropriate. All the Kings fans on here see through it immediately. You are fooling no one. No one is taking you seriously, if they are, the two of you should go start a Beno Udrih forum.

I love Beno, his play this year has been exemplary. A great surprise and an example of what good coaching can bring out in a player. And, I might add, and example of what can happen when you have a budding superstar on the court next to him (yes I am talking about Tyreke), and all the other fresh blood and renewed effort. You need to give proper credit to Tyreke and Coach Westphal, and the rest of the team, for contributing to a better overall team situation that is allowing Beno to thrive this year and really display his skills. Instead, you do the opposite and claim that Tyreke and Westphal are holding him back. The exact opposite is true. You claim to be a proponent of team basketball, yet you display the epitome of an anti-team "player first" mentality, and you appear to have chosen Beno. I feel sorry for Beno for having fans like you.

So I'll ask you a favor, please make a post giving proper credit and praising our amazing new rookie who makes the players around him better, and please publicly praise our new coach for his leadership and ability to command respect from the players. This is a team game. Tyreke Evans is our best player and future leader. Coach Westphal is a candidate for COY, and Beno is having a resurgance this year. All of that is related. Stop dividing the team by pitting one player against others. It's not like that in reality, only in your mind, so get over it.
 

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#30
next 6 games vs minnesota 2x washington on espn portland milwaukee and chicago

we can go 6-0 next 6 games potentially
 
Status
Not open for further replies.