Grades v. Hornets 12/08/09

[bajaden]

I know everyone wants to pick on Hawes or Thompson. They are after all the two biggest targets out there. However the blame needs to be spread around a little bit.

In last nights game Nocioni played 33 minutes. He was 3 for 10 from the floor, and was 0 for 2 from three point range. He was 2 for 6 from the freethrow line and had a plus/minus of -17 for the game. He scored 8 points.

In the game prior to that he played 30 minutes and was 4 for 13 from the floor and had no freethrow attempts. He was 1 for 7 from three point range and scored 9 points. He had a plus/minus of -3 for the game.

This is not meant as a condemmation of Nocioni, but merely pointing out that others shared in the blame. If Nocioni has even a normal game in either of those two games, we probably win.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I know everyone wants to pick on Hawes or Thompson. They are after all the two biggest targets out there. However the blame needs to be spread around a little bit.

In last nights game Nocioni played 33 minutes. He was 3 for 10 from the floor, and was 0 for 2 from three point range. He was 2 for 6 from the freethrow line and had a plus/minus of -17 for the game. He scored 8 points.

In the game prior to that he played 30 minutes and was 4 for 13 from the floor and had no freethrow attempts. He was 1 for 7 from three point range and scored 9 points. He had a plus/minus of -3 for the game.

This is not meant as a condemmation of Nocioni, but merely pointing out that others shared in the blame. If Nocioni has even a normal game in either of those two games, we probably win.

Not to mention he missed 2 VERY critical free throws last night.....and sometimes he forgets what the term 'pass' is defined as.

However, Tyreke with 9 dimes against 1 turnover? What happened to everyone's prediction of him having a 1:1 a/to ratio?

 

[rhythmless]

I know everyone wants to pick on Hawes or Thompson. They are after all the two biggest targets out there. However the blame needs to be spread around a little bit.

In last nights game Nocioni played 33 minutes. He was 3 for 10 from the floor, and was 0 for 2 from three point range. He was 2 for 6 from the freethrow line and had a plus/minus of -17 for the game. He scored 8 points.

In the game prior to that he played 30 minutes and was 4 for 13 from the floor and had no freethrow attempts. He was 1 for 7 from three point range and scored 9 points. He had a plus/minus of -3 for the game.

This is not meant as a condemmation of Nocioni, but merely pointing out that others shared in the blame. If Nocioni has even a normal game in either of those two games, we probably win.

You are right, but in the context of the long term plan, Nocioni's efforts and play are not as important as JT and Hawes. Nocioni gets whatever he's doing. He knows where to be, who to guard, where to pick his spots. What he doesn't get isn't going to be fixed while he is in a Kings uniform, and probably never at all. He is what he is.

The bigs, on the other hand, not only deserve the criticism, but NEED it. They can be better, and better should be expected out of them. That's why they are the targets. It's not about who contributed to the loss as much as how they do it. If you pick the right spots to shoot, and it just doesn't fall, then you take that. It's the silly fouls (and I believe JT earned all of em. There's a way to do that kind of stuff subtlely and not have it called. Arms extended fully is not one of them). Spencer easily had enough lift to dunk that finger roll. He needs to be effective inside, which he isn't (both of them should watch replays of all the David West touches, he knows how to operate).

You have two kids; one tries his very best and gets consistent C+/B- grades because school just isn't for him. He isn't that booksmart. The other slacks off and gets B+s. Who are you going to criticize more? The kid who works for his Cs, or the one who breezes through for Bs?

 

[TIG Kings]

I am really curious what is going thru Westphal mind as Beno is playing very consistent, smart and like everybody wants from him to play, but he should have ball more in his hands. He has great FG % and 3 pts %. Amongst guards he is 2nd to CP3!!! I don`t know why he is not starting with Evans! They could switch PG duties and SG duties....I would like to see him tonight vs Parker as he always outplayed Tony on every youth national championships and every senior national match.....

 

[Kingsguy881]

I am really curious what is going thru Westphal mind as Beno is playing very consistent, smart and like everybody wants from him to play, but he should have ball more in his hands. He has great FG % and 3 pts %. Amongst guards he is 2nd to CP3!!! I don`t know why he is not starting with Evans! They could switch PG duties and SG duties....I would like to see him tonight vs Parker as he always outplayed Tony on every youth national championships and every senior national match.....

Because for all Beno's +'s he gets torched on the other end...now it hasn't been as bad this year as in years past because he is trying much harder. But Beno is a liability on that end, and he is not the dominant force others on the team have the potential to be. Also, Beno will be long gone before Tyreke or Donte are.

 

[bajaden]

You are right, but in the context of the long term plan, Nocioni's efforts and play are not as important as JT and Hawes. Nocioni gets whatever he's doing. He knows where to be, who to guard, where to pick his spots. What he doesn't get isn't going to be fixed while he is in a Kings uniform, and probably never at all. He is what he is.

The bigs, on the other hand, not only deserve the criticism, but NEED it. They can be better, and better should be expected out of them. That's why they are the targets. It's not about who contributed to the loss as much as how they do it. If you pick the right spots to shoot, and it just doesn't fall, then you take that. It's the silly fouls (and I believe JT earned all of em. There's a way to do that kind of stuff subtlely and not have it called. Arms extended fully is not one of them). Spencer easily had enough lift to dunk that finger roll. He needs to be effective inside, which he isn't (both of them should watch replays of all the David West touches, he knows how to operate).

You have two kids; one tries his very best and gets consistent C+/B- grades because school just isn't for him. He isn't that booksmart. The other slacks off and gets B+s. Who are you going to criticize more? The kid who works for his Cs, or the one who breezes through for Bs?

You can say that everyone that plays earns his fouls. But J.T. is the victim of a lot of ticky tacky fouls at times. Now I believe the reason for that is the rep he made for himself last year. I don't know if anyone noticed it or not, but I went back and replayed three plays in slow motion. All three were plays that had J.T. guarding West in the post. In all three plays, West quickly gave J.T. a quick elbow right into the solarplexis. The only reason I noticed it in the first place, was that the first time J.T. almost doubled over, and then grabbed his chest after the play. All three of those should have been offensive fouls on West. But he got away with it. Right now Thompson isn't getting away with anything out there. The last play that fouled him out was a ridiculous call. West, Okafor and just about every player that drove to the basket threw his off arm out. Thompson's wasn't even that flagrant. But the truth is, that if he doesn't get called for two stupid fouls where he grabbed jerseys, then that call wouldn't have mattered.

 

[TIG Kings]

Because for all Beno's +'s he gets torched on the other end...now it hasn't been as bad this year as in years past because he is trying much harder. But Beno is a liability on that end, and he is not the dominant force others on the team have the potential to be. Also, Beno will be long gone before Tyreke or Donte are.

I disagree with you about Beno`s defense thou it is fact that he is not Gary Payton! I watch almost every match and I haven`t seen that he would be torched from someone as you are saying.... Main defensive problems are in the paint!!!!

 

[Eclipse]

It was the first time I saw Tyreke use just his left hand when he shot that critical layup from the left side of the basket near the end of the game - and missed. I guess we now know why he usually uses both hands on that side. But great game by Tyreke. He made Chris Paul look average.

Beno finally passed to Tyreke late in the game when he took over. I think it was due to a previous play where Beno spent the whole time clock trying to force a pass down low to Spencer, and ended chucking up an off-balanced three. The TV then zoomed in on Westphal yelling something at him. I'd like to think it was "pass the ball to Tyreke!" or at least "swing the ball to the other side of the court!"

Also I was getting mad at Okafor. Seemed like he had a personal vendetta against Tyreke when he tripped him under the basket (where Tyreke hit his face and chest on the hardwood floor), and then set that mid-court blind pick that leveled him. But Tyreke showed his toughness by not letting it affect his aggressive play and drives to the basket.

Lastly at one point in the game, Grant/Reynolds mentioned that Hawes asked a coach whether or not he made the right decision of switching off on a guard rather than sticking with the center he was guarding. So it appears that he isn't blind to his questionable switching off decisions on defense and that he wants to improve in that area. It was great to hear that!

 

[Capt. Factorial]

F for Hawes in any which way you want. Beyond pathetic.

At this point, Hawes could put up 50 points on 95% shooting, grab 35 rebounds and block 12 shots in one game and folks around here might give him a C (and not be happy about having to go that high).

12 points on 6-12, 7 boards, 2 assists and didn't make himself look bad on defense. Maybe everybody's expectations are just too high.

 

[Kingsguy881]

You can say that everyone that plays earns his fouls. But J.T. is the victim of a lot of ticky tacky fouls at times. Now I believe the reason for that is the rep he made for himself last year. I don't know if anyone noticed it or not, but I went back and replayed three plays in slow motion. All three were plays that had J.T. guarding West in the post. In all three plays, West quickly gave J.T. a quick elbow right into the solarplexis. The only reason I noticed it in the first place, was that the first time J.T. almost doubled over, and then grabbed his chest after the play. All three of those should have been offensive fouls on West. But he got away with it. Right now Thompson isn't getting away with anything out there. The last play that fouled him out was a ridiculous call. West, Okafor and just about every player that drove to the basket threw his off arm out. Thompson's wasn't even that flagrant. But the truth is, that if he doesn't get called for two stupid fouls where he grabbed jerseys, then that call wouldn't have mattered.

Did you notice on the play late in the game, where CP3 hit that 3 pointer, he slapped West on the back and told him to throw an elbow at JT. He even gestured with his elbow. That **** should be looked at and handled by the league, but it won't.

 

[Rockmeister]

I had to vote for Jason to learn to control his fouls, although I'd also agree with it just taking time. The problem is that I'm not at all convinced Jason understands what he's doing is hurting himself and the team. You don't grab the other guys jersey. There's no way that ends well. And every single time you act like the injured party, the officials see it and remember ... and call the fouls even more closely.

Jason has incredible potential but he has to be willing to change those things in his game that hurt him. It's like dribbling the ball inside instead of going straight up with the ball for the dunk.

We all see his potential. The one thing that can make him reach the next level is the ability to understand and correct the little things.

JT whining and complaining is really started to be annoying...very annoying. I couldn't believe JT was complaining because he got called for a foul when he was clearly grabbing the guy's jersey.

Didn't last year, the staff talk with JT about his whining/complaining issues. They need to talk with him again.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I disagree with you about Beno`s defense thou it is fact that he is not Gary Payton! I watch almost every match and I haven`t seen that he would be torched from someone as you are saying.... Main defensive problems are in the paint!!!!

The most glaring issue I saw with Beno, and it was a while ago but it continues to happen, is when he goes against quick guards they have a tendency to light him up. The most embarrassing one so far this year was Iverson, in his first game back, popped in and went against Evans who wholly shut him down. Then Beno came in for Evans and Iverson quickly scored 13 points for his only points in the game. Beno is good at help defense, but one on one he gets hammered.

And how does the ball get into the paint? It has to start on the perimeter in order to get into the paint and if the guards are not doing their job stopping penetration (which Beno struggles with on the wing especially), then you can't blame the bigs for stopping the ball but having to leave their man in order to do so.

 

[bajaden]

JT whining and complaining is really started to be annoying...very annoying. I couldn't believe JT was complaining because he got called for a foul when he was clearly grabbing the guy's jersey.

Didn't last year, the staff talk with JT about his whining/complaining issues. They need to talk with him again.

Aww come on. Everybody in the league knows that Songaila pours superglue all over his shirt in order to draw fouls. If you look closely you can see that his hand is stuck to the jersey.

 

[rhythmless]

Did you notice on the play late in the game, where CP3 hit that 3 pointer, he slapped West on the back and told him to throw an elbow at JT. He even gestured with his elbow. That **** should be looked at and handled by the league, but it won't.

I don't like CP3. I respect him as a skilled player, but he's dirty as hell. He's constantly grabbing, tripping, etc. There's hard and dirty, and he blurs the lines very effectively.

 

[NME]

Aww come on. Everybody in the league knows that Songaila pours superglue all over his shirt in order to draw fouls. If you look closely you can see that his hand is stuck to the jersey.

The NBA's answer to Lester Hayes?