The only thing this team needs
- Thread starter JJ_Evans
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How about Westphal just sits Spencer down and explains to him that this should be his role? He is already a decent shot blocker, and the guy is young and mutable. I think that this is part of his problem: he is a hard headed youth that is resistant to a defining role. I think it would serve him well to hit the gym hard core and shed his perimeter game, focusing on the post and interior defense.
I like Biedrens, but I don't know how that would work with Spencer. I live in the bay area, and watch biedrens a lot, and the guys an absolute rebounding machine, and he can block shots. But, 9M is a good size contract, and the guy has no offensive game to speak of, although he is athletic and gets A LOT of putbacks on offense.
He is extremely active, and I think has the potential to protect the paint on defense, something I don't ever see Spencer doing. Biedrens and JT would be a very active, great rebounding tandem.
This is just a name I've thought of lately because I think GS would be willing to part with him. Most of the promising young bigs in this league are locked up for a while.
He is extremely active, and I think has the potential to protect the paint on defense, something I don't ever see Spencer doing. Biedrens and JT would be a very active, great rebounding tandem.
This is just a name I've thought of lately because I think GS would be willing to part with him. Most of the promising young bigs in this league are locked up for a while.
What this team doesn't need:
to acquire an overpaid player that is getting all star, franchise level money while not being an all star, franchise level player, with a long contract that destroys cap flexibility and isn't the level of player that this deal would usually be geared towards acquiring.
If this were Brook Lopez, or Al Jefferson, I could see it. But this is a double double player who is not producing that much more than what JASON THOMPSON is producing. In fact, JT is producing more. And Emeka would be making more money than Martin, and cripple any future moves. I wanted a deal involving KT to get talent, but not this.
to acquire an overpaid player that is getting all star, franchise level money while not being an all star, franchise level player, with a long contract that destroys cap flexibility and isn't the level of player that this deal would usually be geared towards acquiring.
If this were Brook Lopez, or Al Jefferson, I could see it. But this is a double double player who is not producing that much more than what JASON THOMPSON is producing. In fact, JT is producing more. And Emeka would be making more money than Martin, and cripple any future moves. I wanted a deal involving KT to get talent, but not this.
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Okafor is more getting paid Kevin Martin money than franchise money, but yeah, that contract is a doozy and you have to be sure if oyu make that move. Not too different really from the one we signed Vlade to a a free agent back in the day though. Centers are always overpaid. Probably still moveable too as long as he gets enough minutes to put up numbers, and we win.
Martin is the franchise player. What I mean by that is he's making the most money, and has been the most productive player, so in essence he's been the franchise guy.
But why do it when the team is in the position it's in now? Again, it would be different if they were like the hornets: a playoff team in need of frontline production. But they are a young, developing team who has frontline players who are producing at Emeka's level. I don't see the need to make this addition.
Again, it's not the player, it's the contract that comes along with the player. He is not the level of player that is worth that contract. Remember when the Kings overpaid Bibby and Miller to keep talent here? Yeah, remember how that turned out? Why go down that road again, only with a team that isn't even established as a playoff team yet?
And what if making this deal is one reason that Evans and Casspi aren't re-signed in a few years?
I'm all for using KT's deal to get more talent, but at least get talent that isn't vastly overpaid. If you want to tie up the cap space, make it worth while.
But why do it when the team is in the position it's in now? Again, it would be different if they were like the hornets: a playoff team in need of frontline production. But they are a young, developing team who has frontline players who are producing at Emeka's level. I don't see the need to make this addition.
Again, it's not the player, it's the contract that comes along with the player. He is not the level of player that is worth that contract. Remember when the Kings overpaid Bibby and Miller to keep talent here? Yeah, remember how that turned out? Why go down that road again, only with a team that isn't even established as a playoff team yet?
And what if making this deal is one reason that Evans and Casspi aren't re-signed in a few years?
I'm all for using KT's deal to get more talent, but at least get talent that isn't vastly overpaid. If you want to tie up the cap space, make it worth while.
There is absolutely no chance, none, that Evans is not resigned. Casspi will depend on his growth, but looks promising now. But we are talking literally 4 years off by then. At that point beno, Kevn, Cisco, Noc and Emeak himself may eihter have bene moved or will be working on the final year or two of their contracts and hence could be moveable.
If anything I think the followup move would likely be the liquidation of one of those other contracts to restore caproom.
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Just look at the Chicago Bulls. They had a young Gordon, Deng, Thomas, and overpaid to get Wallace because they thought he would put them over the top. Remember that sweep of the Heat after they won the championship? The Bulls thought they were on the rise, and nothing panned out like they thought. They are now hoping that their young talent in Rose and Noah help them, but that may not even work.
At least they made the playoffs and did something at first. Let the Kings prove they are a playoff team before making these risky moves.
At least they made the playoffs and did something at first. Let the Kings prove they are a playoff team before making these risky moves.
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i just said the same thing in the other okafor thread.... he cant put a bottom dweller over the top, look at the bobcats, they have never been to the playoffs and they had more talent and were in the east. we are in the toughest division in the nba , do you think that okafor can handle bynum, pau or amare? hawes cant either but he is still learning the game...
Ahhhh, maybe I missed something, but I don't remember Thabeet's name coming up in this discussion except merely as an example. 
I took that to mean that he'd part with Martin for Thabeet, too. I just didn't bother to respond for the plain and simple reason we could get a lot more for Martin than Thabeet. And that's if I actually bought into the idea of trading Martin at this point in time, which I certainly don't...
The video game mentality around here astounds me sometimes. You don't just arbitrarily decide to trade someone because you think he might not work out with your up-and-coming potential superstar. You wait and actually see how they play together before you start making those phone calls.
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what it boils down to is what are you guys willing to give up for martin? you think that you could get more than thabeet for martin how do you think the grizzlie fans feel? they have mayo and gay, they dont need martin. mayo will be better than martin in 2 years. if we cant get a star for martin we should get an expiring..... we can lose with him or without...
First, there is no guarantee that Lee would pick the Kings over other teams.
Second, Lee is looking for the kind of money that Okafor is currently making (I don't think he is worth that kind of money).
Third, Lee doesn't bring to the Kings what they need like Okafor does (I also wish he made less money). Lee is a guy who rebounds and gets most of his pts much the same way JT does. He also is a very poor defensive player. Okafor is a much better defensive player and shot-blocker who also rebounds just as well.
I'm not saying the Kings should make this move, but I think they have to consider if they can find a better player next season with their cap space than Okafor. I think that is a hard question to answer right now, but I am leaning toward it being "no".
That being said, I think we have some time to make such a decision. Let's give this young team a couple more weeks and see if they are still hovering around .500. If they are, then picking up a player like Okafor is the type of move that would likely put them into the playoffs.
I agree that Okafor is NOT the type of player that can lift a bad team into the playoffs, but he IS the type of player that can help a borderline team become a good team. The Kings need to determine what kind of a team the Kings currently are before making this type of trade IMO.
Second, Lee is looking for the kind of money that Okafor is currently making (I don't think he is worth that kind of money).
Third, Lee doesn't bring to the Kings what they need like Okafor does (I also wish he made less money). Lee is a guy who rebounds and gets most of his pts much the same way JT does. He also is a very poor defensive player. Okafor is a much better defensive player and shot-blocker who also rebounds just as well.
I'm not saying the Kings should make this move, but I think they have to consider if they can find a better player next season with their cap space than Okafor. I think that is a hard question to answer right now, but I am leaning toward it being "no".
That being said, I think we have some time to make such a decision. Let's give this young team a couple more weeks and see if they are still hovering around .500. If they are, then picking up a player like Okafor is the type of move that would likely put them into the playoffs.
I agree that Okafor is NOT the type of player that can lift a bad team into the playoffs, but he IS the type of player that can help a borderline team become a good team. The Kings need to determine what kind of a team the Kings currently are before making this type of trade IMO.
I don't think there is a player on the Kings I would give up for Thabeet. But then I just don't see him ever becoming more than a role player who gets about 10 minutes a game. When I watched him in college, he always seemed to be moving about 1 step slower than the flow of the game. His height and length helped him make up for that. Being 1 step slow in college usually tranlates to about 3 steps slow in the NBA, and you can't make up for that no matter how tall or long you are. I am sure he will bridge the gap some with time, I just don't think it will be enough for him to ever be much of a factor in the NBA.
it may work out quite nicely, but that doesn't mean its not worth discussing...
i think the kings' brass is really fond of the idea of starting both evans and martin, but reality gets in the way of desire often in the nba. i'm certainly not ready to write the combo off, because they've only played a few games together. but i'm also not convinced that martin can play effectively alongside tyreke, given their seemingly incongruent styles. and if it comes down to choosing between one or the other, i know that i'm going to land on the side of evans. 'reke's a better rebounder and a better passer, and he appears to exhibit more effort on the defensive side of the ball. more importantly, he's already displayed more effectiveness on that side of the ball than i can remember seeing from kevin martin in a long time...
kevin's attractiveness as a player has always been in his offensive efficiency, but his shooting hasn't been terribly efficient since '07. in fact, its been in steady decline since '06, when he shot 48% from the field. he's still beastly in his ability to get to the line, and he can frustrate any back court defense in the league when he's hot. he's an exceptional scorer who definitely has a place on a winning team in this league, but chemistry can be an issue for one-dimensional players who require the ball to be effective if there's another player who demands ball control on the same team...
but, again, 'reke and martin haven't played much together, so maybe it works out fine. we'll see in a couple of months. but, if the team manages to [miraculously] play .500 ball in his absence, the front office is going to have to strongly consider martin as a potentially valuable trading chip. people aren't saying much about the sacramento kings right now because, 4-game win streak or not, this was still the worst team in the league last season. any noise they make across the league in the next six or seven weeks is invariably going to bring martin's value on this new-look team into question. but maybe they go on a 2-8 stretch in their next ten games, thus reaffirming martin's value to the team. who knows? regardless, i think its definitely worth talking about...
i think the kings' brass is really fond of the idea of starting both evans and martin, but reality gets in the way of desire often in the nba. i'm certainly not ready to write the combo off, because they've only played a few games together. but i'm also not convinced that martin can play effectively alongside tyreke, given their seemingly incongruent styles. and if it comes down to choosing between one or the other, i know that i'm going to land on the side of evans. 'reke's a better rebounder and a better passer, and he appears to exhibit more effort on the defensive side of the ball. more importantly, he's already displayed more effectiveness on that side of the ball than i can remember seeing from kevin martin in a long time...
kevin's attractiveness as a player has always been in his offensive efficiency, but his shooting hasn't been terribly efficient since '07. in fact, its been in steady decline since '06, when he shot 48% from the field. he's still beastly in his ability to get to the line, and he can frustrate any back court defense in the league when he's hot. he's an exceptional scorer who definitely has a place on a winning team in this league, but chemistry can be an issue for one-dimensional players who require the ball to be effective if there's another player who demands ball control on the same team...
but, again, 'reke and martin haven't played much together, so maybe it works out fine. we'll see in a couple of months. but, if the team manages to [miraculously] play .500 ball in his absence, the front office is going to have to strongly consider martin as a potentially valuable trading chip. people aren't saying much about the sacramento kings right now because, 4-game win streak or not, this was still the worst team in the league last season. any noise they make across the league in the next six or seven weeks is invariably going to bring martin's value on this new-look team into question. but maybe they go on a 2-8 stretch in their next ten games, thus reaffirming martin's value to the team. who knows? regardless, i think its definitely worth talking about...
I think this one is quite up for debate. Though his actual FG% has gone down, his TS% (True Shooting, which is a measure of points scored per shot taken, and takes into account attempts on which a player was fouled and does not get a FGA) has been fantastic. His career TS% is #13 all-time in the combined NBA/ABA, as a point of reference, and last year he was only a hint below his career. This year he's a bit lower than that (in a 5-game sample) but this year's TS% would still be good for #50 all time. He's a very efficient shooter even when you do take into account shots on which he was fouled. It's his defense that appears to be the issue to me.