Geoff Petrie

[Kingsguy881]

i know you guys love evans but besides him what amazing draft nights did geoff have? martin was the steal of his draft, i wont deny that but who else? none of them are on the team... besides peja and now martin, none of the others have lasted past their rookie contract. though i guess garcia will qualify for that though half of us here want him to be traded.

i loved jwill, he is the reason why im a kings fan but he was traded.

peja was traded
hedo was traded
wallace was left unprotected in the expansion draft
douby sucked.....

for all of petrie's great draft choices what do we as fans have to show for it? none of them are here and how many of us would care if martin or garcia are traded? besides evans, where are these great draft choices? they werent bad draft choices, well douby and garcia(in hindsight) were i suppose...

he has yet to draft the future face of the franchise... unless evans becomes that player. if he does, then i would be right about him having decent drafts because it took him 12 years to finally do it.

This doesn't make sense because you are not taking into account how many times Petrie has drafted a player that was not followed by many players who were better.

5 in 1998, Dirk, Pierce, Bonzi, Harrington, and Rashard Lewis over J Dub.

No draft picks in 99

Maybe 1 in 2000 if you consider Michael Redd better than Hedo, in a draft where Petrie picked 16th and probably got the best player in that draft
http://www.databasebasketball.com/draft/draftyear.htm?yr=2000&lg=N

In 2001 he chose GDub with the 25th pick, with Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas and Memo going after him (at this point Petrie is addressing a need for athleticism and not looking for a pg as they acquired Bibby this year)

02 saw the last pick in the first, Dickau who was immediately traded. Boozer and Flip Murray went later.

03 we had no picks, in a fairly strong draft class headed by LBJ.

04 Kevin Martin, enough said.

05 saw Cisco be Petrie's pick, with Monta Ellis and David Lee going after.

06 Douby was followed by Rondo, Farmar, Sergio and Millsap, of note.

07 was Spencer and 08 was JT and 09 was Tyreke. Didn't miss too many times this decade.

 

[AleksandarN]

i know you guys love evans but besides him what amazing draft nights did geoff have? martin was the steal of his draft, i wont deny that but who else? none of them are on the team... besides peja and now martin, none of the others have lasted past their rookie contract. though i guess garcia will qualify for that though half of us here want him to be traded.

i loved jwill, he is the reason why im a kings fan but he was traded.

peja was traded
hedo was traded
wallace was left unprotected in the expansion draft
douby sucked.....

for all of petrie's great draft choices what do we as fans have to show for it? none of them are here and how many of us would care if martin or garcia are traded? besides evans, where are these great draft choices? they werent bad draft choices, well douby and garcia(in hindsight) were i suppose...

he has yet to draft the future face of the franchise... unless evans becomes that player. if he does, then i would be right about him having decent drafts because it took him 12 years to finally do it.

What does being traded have anything to do drafting talent? That makes no sense.

 

[AriesMar27]

for all of the talented players that he has drafted none of them are here... minus the ones that were drafted post-webber injury... the talent that he compiled werent good enough to get this team over the top.

how good are those picks if they were all traded for garbage minus the bibby and possibly miller... petrie has yet to find a marquee player be it in the draft or by trade. we had webber way back when but havent had anyone that comes close since the day his knee gave up on him.

 

[AleksandarN]

for all of the talented players that he has drafted none of them are here... minus the ones that were drafted post-webber injury... the talent that he compiled werent good enough to get this team over the top.

how good are those picks if they were all traded for garbage minus the bibby and possibly miller... petrie has yet to find a marquee player be it in the draft or by trade. we had webber way back when but havent had anyone that comes close since the day his knee gave up on him.

Again how does the ability to draft talent relate to trading. I am talking about his ability to draft talent. Which you commented on was average. Also how many times was he in the position to draft marquee players?

 

[roasthawg]

This doesn't make sense because you are not taking into account how many times Petrie has drafted a player that was not followed by many players who were better.

5 in 1998, Dirk, Pierce, Bonzi, Harrington, and Rashard Lewis over J Dub.

No draft picks in 99

Maybe 1 in 2000 if you consider Michael Redd better than Hedo, in a draft where Petrie picked 16th and probably got the best player in that draft
http://www.databasebasketball.com/draft/draftyear.htm?yr=2000&lg=N

In 2001 he chose GDub with the 25th pick, with Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas and Memo going after him (at this point Petrie is addressing a need for athleticism and not looking for a pg as they acquired Bibby this year)

02 saw the last pick in the first, Dickau who was immediately traded. Boozer and Flip Murray went later.

03 we had no picks, in a fairly strong draft class headed by LBJ.

04 Kevin Martin, enough said.

05 saw Cisco be Petrie's pick, with Monta Ellis and David Lee going after.

06 Douby was followed by Rondo, Farmar, Sergio and Millsap, of note.

07 was Spencer and 08 was JT and 09 was Tyreke. Didn't miss too many times this decade.

Nice post... this really puts it into perspective. He's an elite gm in terms of his ability to find players in the draft. That's a very good track record. Douby was the only really bad pick.

 

[fnordius]

Again how does the ability to draft talent relate to trading. I am talking about his ability to draft talent. Which you commented on was average. Also how many times was he in the position to draft marquee players?

Well, you know, to some extent you may have to judge a GM by whether or not the team does well. If a FO draft good players all the time but don't hang onto any, then they're just being like the Clippers. And nothing good ever comes of being like the Clippers.

IF I were trying to evaluate Geoff, I'd probably do something like this: observe how many seasons he'd had a playoff team here, and how many years he led us into the lottery (7 and 7, so 50% either way), and where the record stands now compared to when he arrived. When he arrived, it was at .476, and .476 again the following year. We know how it's been lately, and how it is at this moment. Throw any special advantages or disadvantages you think he's had into the equation, and you've got a grade for the GM.

But I'm not going to try that, because the alleged disadvantages are too ambiguous.

 

[AleksandarN]

Well, you know, to some extent you may have to judge a GM by whether or not the team does well. If a FO draft good players all the time but don't hang onto any, then they're just being like the Clippers. And nothing good ever comes of being like the Clippers.

IF I were trying to evaluate Geoff, I'd probably do something like this: observe how many seasons he'd had a playoff team here, and how many years he led us into the lottery (7 and 7, so 50% either way), and where it stood now compared to when he arrived. When he arrived, it was at .476, and .476 again the following year. We know how it's been lately, and how it is at this moment. Throw any special advantages or disadvantages you think he's had into the equation, and you've got a grade for the GM.

But I'm not going to try that, because the alleged disadvantages are too ambiguous.

I do not know why you are quoting me. My post had to do with his ability to draft talent and I commented accordingly in respose to AriesMar27 coment that Petrie is average at drafting talent.

 

[AriesMar27]

Again how does the ability to draft talent relate to trading. I am talking about his ability to draft talent. Which you commented on was average. Also how many times was he in the position to draft marquee players?

that didnt stop the lakers from getting kobe from the hornets in the very same draft one spot ahead of peja, the next pick was steve nash. i know that it isnt petries fault that he couldnt draft a superstar but how hard does he try? we dont know because we dont work for or with the kings. he very well may just sit on his *** all day and collect his check like kenny f'n thomas. we dont know. but what we do know is that we dont have a superstar player in this superstar driven league.... and whos fault is that? the gm's... whos the gm of this team? geoff petrie....

petries pick was in between 2 future mvp's... he can draft talented roleplayers but he has yet to draft elite talent. unless of course evans becomes that player...

 

[AleksandarN]

that didnt stop the lakers from getting kobe in the very same draft one spot ahead of peja, the next pick was steve nash. i know that it isnt petries fault that he couldnt draft a superstar but how hard does he try? we dont know because we dont work for or with the kings. he very well may just sit on his *** all day and collect his check like kenny f'n thomas. we dont know. but what we do know is that we dont have a superstar player in this superstar driven league.... and whos fault is that? the gm's... whos the gm of this team? geoff petrie....

petries pick was in between 2 future mvp's... he can draft talented roleplayers but he has yet to draft elite talent. unless of course evans becomes that player...

It is well known Kobe wanted to only play for the Lakers that is why he fell to 13th. I like how you pick the deepest draft in NBA history to try to make your point. Come on you are really reaching there. Also tell me at the time who other then West thought he was going to be a HOF player and same goes for Suns when they drafted Nash. Also at the time the draft experts had us drafting John Wallace how many had us picking Nash? Time in time again the experts had us drafting certain players only to find petrie drafting what turns out to be the better player. That is a mark of a great evalutor of young draft talent

 

[AriesMar27]

It is well known Kobe wanted to only play for the Lakers that is why he fell to 13th. I like how you pick the deepest draft in NBA history to try to make your point. Come on you are really reaching there. Also tell me at the time who other then West thought he was going to be a HOF player and same goes for Suns when they drafted Nash.

i live in los angeles... trust me, everyone in LA knew that he was going to be a special player just like cavs fans knew lebron would be special. i used that draft as an example because the lakers didnt draft kobe, they traded for him. i was going to use the 1998 draft and use dirk as my example because the mavs didnt draft dirk, they traded for him and pat garrity who they then traded for steve nash... creating one hell of an underachieving combo... both players won mvp... but petrie drafted jason williams, whom he traded 3 years later for bibby... i loved jwill and bibby, both are 2 of my favorite players but damn...i like nash too...

 

[fnordius]

My post had to do with his ability to draft talent and I commented accordingly in respose to AriesMar27 coment that Petrie is average at drafting talent.

Yeah, I'm just kind of pointing out that you have to take it as a whole. Ron Artest, for example, has strengths that you just have to grovel in front of, but weaknesses that leave many fleeing in terror. He ends up with a grade somewhere in the middle.

Geoff is in a similar position to the CEO of a corporation. If a corporation makes money and seems to do well under a given CEO, you give 'em credit for that; if the opposite, vice-versa. Because that's their job, and the assumption is that they're in control of everything, relative to other US businesses in the same field.

The team has done average. You can skew that a lot by saying that the owners aren't willing to lose enough money, or that the market's small, or whatever, and come up with a range of grades higher than C. You could also point out that some teams are owned by absolute idiots, shift the curve, and give him a D+.

It's very subjective.

 

[AleksandarN]

i live in los angeles... trust me, everyone in LA knew that he was going to be a special player just like cavs fans knew lebron would be special. i used that draft as an example because the lakers didnt draft kobe, they traded for him. i was going to use the 1998 draft and use dirk as my example because the mavs didnt draft dirk, they traded for him and pat garrity who they then traded for steve nash... creating one hell of an underachieving combo... both players won mvp... but petrie drafted jason williams, whom he traded 3 years later for bibby... i loved jwill and bibby, both are 2 of my favorite players but damn...i like nash too...

Nash was not projected to the player who is today in 96 draft. Not even the Suns thought he would be that player. So your point on Geoff not drafting Nash is mute. Like I said in my previous post which you failed to quote

Also at the time the draft experts had us drafting John Wallace how many had us picking Nash? Time in time again the experts had us drafting certain players only to find petrie drafting what turns out to be the better player. That is a mark of a great evalutor of young draft talent

 

[AleksandarN]

Yeah, I'm just kind of pointing out that you have to take it as a whole. Ron Artest, for example, has strengths that you just have to grovel in front of, but weaknesses that leave many fleeing in terror. He ends up with a grade somewhere in the middle.

Geoff is in a similar position to the CEO of a corporation. If a corporation makes money and seems to do well under a given CEO, you give 'em credit for that; if the opposite, vice-versa. Because that's their job, and the assumption is that they're in control of everything, relative to other US businesses in the same field.

The team has done average. You can skew that a lot by saying that the owners aren't willing to lose enough money, or that the market's small, or whatever, and come up with a range of grades higher than C. You could also point out that some teams are owned by absolute idiots, shift the curve, and give him a D+.

It's very subjective.

Yes but LIKE I said in the first post in this thread he has the ability to draft talent. I already acknowledged the other part. My arguement has to do with another poster critizing Petrie for not drafting marque players.

 

[AriesMar27]

and like i said, he is good at drafting talented roleplayers... every player that he has drafted for this team is a #2 option at best... peja? jwill? martin? hedo? wallace? garcia? thompson? hawes? im not saying that the players are bad players... just not superstars.

if petrie was good at spotting elite talent he wouldve known that players like nash and dirk were future elite players. hell with the way that petrie drafts i wouldnt be surprised if evans follows that same trend, good but not great; a star but not a superstar.

and if you dont like that then you dont like kings basketball...

 

[AleksandarN]

Yeah, I'm just kind of pointing out that you have to take it as a whole. Ron Artest, for example, has strengths that you just have to grovel in front of, but weaknesses that leave many fleeing in terror. He ends up with a grade somewhere in the middle.

Geoff is in a similar position to the CEO of a corporation. If a corporation makes money and seems to do well under a given CEO, you give 'em credit for that; if the opposite, vice-versa. Because that's their job, and the assumption is that they're in control of everything, relative to other US businesses in the same field.

The team has done average. You can skew that a lot by saying that the owners aren't willing to lose enough money, or that the market's small, or whatever, and come up with a range of grades higher than C. You could also point out that some teams are owned by absolute idiots, shift the curve, and give him a D+.

It's very subjective.

9 out of 14 seasons in the playoffs is not average in my books especially given the amount of injuries and bad luck we have had. He turned this franchise around. Before he came along we were perennial losers

 

[Kingsguy881]

that didnt stop the lakers from getting kobe from the hornets in the very same draft one spot ahead of peja, the next pick was steve nash. i know that it isnt petries fault that he couldnt draft a superstar but how hard does he try? we dont know because we dont work for or with the kings. he very well may just sit on his *** all day and collect his check like kenny f'n thomas. we dont know. but what we do know is that we dont have a superstar player in this superstar driven league.... and whos fault is that? the gm's... whos the gm of this team? geoff petrie....

petries pick was in between 2 future mvp's... he can draft talented roleplayers but he has yet to draft elite talent. unless of course evans becomes that player...

He drafted Evans over Rubio. How much harder does he need to try, when given the opportunity. I notice how you ignored my last post. Refute THAT knowledge before continuing on your rampage.

 

[Kingsguy881]

and like i said, he is good at drafting talented roleplayers... every player that he has drafted for this team is a #2 option at best... peja? jwill? martin? hedo? wallace? garcia? thompson? hawes? im not saying that the players are bad players... just not superstars.

if petrie was good at spotting elite talent he wouldve known that players like nash and dirk were future elite players. hell with the way that petrie drafts i wouldnt be surprised if evans follows that same trend, good but not great; a star but not a superstar.

and if you dont like that then you dont like kings basketball...

Ooooohhhh, that one is going to stay with you for a LONG time.

BTW Don Nelson traded for Dirk and almost lost his job for doing so. HE was the only one who foresaw Dirk becoming what he is, Milwaukie traded him for nothing.

How many superstars were drafted after the players he drafted? 2? 3? Damn man your margin of error is small, are you ALWAYS that efficient over a 12 year timespan?

 

[AriesMar27]

9 out of 14 seasons in the playoffs is not average in my books especially given the amount of injuries and bad luck we have had. He turned this franchise around. Before he came along we were perennial losers

it is when half of the teams in the nba make the playoffs.... out of those 9 times how many of those were we top 4 in the west? probably half... thats pretty average.

 

[AriesMar27]

Ooooohhhh, that one is going to stay with you for a LONG time.

BTW Don Nelson traded for Dirk and almost lost his job for doing so. HE was the only one who foresaw Dirk becoming what he is, Milwaukie traded him for nothing.

he also traded pat garrity for nash that same day... he has an eye for talent.

love the new sig btw, how long are you gonna keep it?

 

[AleksandarN]

and like i said, he is good at drafting talented roleplayers... every player that he has drafted for this team is a #2 option at best... peja? jwill? martin? hedo? wallace? garcia? thompson? hawes? im not saying that the players are bad players... just not superstars.

if petrie was good at spotting elite talent he wouldve known that players like nash and dirk were future elite players. hell with the way that petrie drafts i wouldnt be surprised if evans follows that same trend, good but not great; a star but not a superstar.

and if you dont like that then you dont like kings basketball...

average how many superstars have been avaible when we drafted( nash which I already explained and Dirk). So since he has been drafting he missed one player and that makes him average when it comes to drafting talent . So a GM has to be perfect in a draft to become better then average. Obviousily there is no reasoning with you

 

[AriesMar27]

How many superstars were drafted after the players he drafted? 2? 3? Damn man your margin of error is small, are you ALWAYS that efficient over a 12 year timespan?

he hasnt drafted a single one yet... as kings gm he has drafted 1 all star, peja...

 

[AleksandarN]

he also traded pat garrity for nash that same day... he has an eye for talent.

love the new sig btw, how long are you gonna keep it?

Neslon did two things right but I guess he never made a mistake in the draft then? Also Nash was in the league for serval years and was not drafted Nelson.

 

[AleksandarN]

he hasnt drafted a single one yet... as kings gm he has drafted 1 all star, peja...

like i said earlier he was not in draft position untill now. Like i said earlier which you seem to ignore

Also at the time the draft experts had us drafting John Wallace how many had us picking Nash? Time in time again the experts had us drafting certain players only to find petrie drafting what turns out to be the better player. That is a mark of a great evalutor of young draft talent

That quote applies to this draft aswell

 

[AriesMar27]

average how many superstars have been avaible when we drafted( nash which I already explained and Dirk). So since he has been drafting he missed one player and that makes him average when it comes to drafting talent . So a GM has to be perfect in a draft to become better then average. Obviousily there is no reasoning with you

well how good is he if he doesnt draft any great players? there are 30 gms in the nba how many of them are good at their jobs? how many are average? how many are bad? how many are great? yet there are some who continue to keep their team in the hunt for a ring...

besides petrie which gms do you believe are great? or even really good? its easy to say that he is good at picking talented players, the nba is full of them. they're in the nba.... the clippers have a horrible gm. the spurs have a great one. where in you mind does petrie rank?

out of the 30 gms in the nba where would you rank ours? 10th? 3rd? 25th? this is an impossible conversation to have because we are arguing if petrie is good or average... there really isnt that much of a difference...

 

[AleksandarN]

well how good is he if he doesnt draft any great players? there are 30 gms in the nba how many of them are good at their jobs? how many are average? how many are good? how many are great? yet there are some who continue to keep their team in the hunt for a ring...

besides petrie which gms do you believe are great? or even really good? its easy to say that he is good at picking talented players, the nba is full of them. they're in the nba.... the clippers have a horrible gm. the spurs have a great one. where in you mind does petrie rank?

out of the 30 gms in the nba where would you rank ours? 10th? 3rd? 25th? this is an impossible conversation to have because we are arguing if petrie is good or average... there really isnt that much of a difference...

Top three in drafting talent which is better then good and a hell of lot better then average

 

[AriesMar27]

Top three in drafting talent which is better then good and a hell of lot better then average

you think that petrie is a top 3 gm when it comes to drafting players... wow. who are the other 2? one of them is rc buford, whos the other guy?

 

[AriesMar27]

He drafted Evans over Rubio. How much harder does he need to try, when given the opportunity. I notice how you ignored my last post. Refute THAT knowledge before continuing on your rampage.

so you agree with me? he cant or doesnt draft elite talent... joking of course, we wont know how ordinary evans will be until geoff trades him for a useless vet with a long contract.

but did you mean this post...

This doesn't make sense because you are not taking into account how many times Petrie has drafted a player that was not followed by many players who were better.

5 in 1998, Dirk, Pierce, Bonzi, Harrington, and Rashard Lewis over J Dub.

No draft picks in 99

Maybe 1 in 2000 if you consider Michael Redd better than Hedo, in a draft where Petrie picked 16th and probably got the best player in that draft
http://www.databasebasketball.com/draft/draftyear.htm?yr=2000&lg=N

In 2001 he chose GDub with the 25th pick, with Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas and Memo going after him (at this point Petrie is addressing a need for athleticism and not looking for a pg as they acquired Bibby this year)

02 saw the last pick in the first, Dickau who was immediately traded. Boozer and Flip Murray went later.

03 we had no picks, in a fairly strong draft class headed by LBJ.

04 Kevin Martin, enough said.

05 saw Cisco be Petrie's pick, with Monta Ellis and David Lee going after.

06 Douby was followed by Rondo, Farmar, Sergio and Millsap, of note.

07 was Spencer and 08 was JT and 09 was Tyreke. Didn't miss too many times this decade.

you really didnt say anything worth commenting on to be perfectly honest. just that petrie passed on nash, dirk, pierce, arenas, parker, redd and manu... thats 7 all-stars that were passed up because petrie thought that peja, jwill, hedo and wallace were better players.... thats just going up to the 2001 draft... damn... i didnt even mention lewis thats 8 all-stars.. 3 in the 98 draft alone.

 

[fnordius]

9 out of 14 seasons in the playoffs is not average in my books especially given the amount of injuries and bad luck we have had. He turned this franchise around. Before he came along we were perennial losers

Nine out of fourteen seasons in the playoffs is, surprisingly, about average; on average a .475 record will get you into the playoffs every year, even though it's a losing record, since 16 teams make it, but there have been only 27-30 teams in the NBA during Geoff's tenure. And the Kings benefited from that in '95-'96, squeaking into the playoffs with a .476 record.

The franchise's overall record since Geoff arrived is around 603-556 (52.0% wins).

And yes, that was a big improvement from the team's record over the prior several years, when we had management that was clearly below average.

The whole key in turning those stats into a grade is, like you say, luck. Geoff may have faced huge challenges... or maybe not, compared to other franchises. And what one thinks about that is the pivotal issue WRT grading him. That makes it so subjective that we can never have a decisive end to these sorts of threads.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

you think that petrie is a top 3 gm when it comes to drafting players... wow. who are the other 2? one of them is rc buford, whos the other guy?

Why do you think R.C. Buford is such a great drafter? His first round picks are Beno Udrih, Ian Mahinmi, Tiago Splitter, and George Hill. That's it. And outside of DeJuan Blair, who was projected as high as #10 and fell to #37 due to knee issues (and we don't know how that will pan out) his most notable second round picks are either Malik Hairston or Marcus Williams (the not-as-good one out of Arizona).

Dude hasn't done much in his 7 years at the helm.

 

[Oprostaj]

I'm with ya fnordius. Altough I do agree with AM on the aspect that while people will defend Petrie, and yes, he does have a keen eye for talent, he has not been god's gift to this team. He has missed on talent, he has drafted for need instead of talent, and has overloaded us on SG/SF while leaving us with unproven young players in the frontcourt. He had been slightly better than average in my opinion. Again, it's easy to grade now... when we know the players that turned out. It's not like Petrie was picking first every draft... The whole damn leauge missed out on Arenas, GInobili, Parker... but then again, we're trying to say how good he is, not how good he is compared to x or y or z