Kings-Thunder post-game discussion
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You are right when we reach actual upward velocity. Once he is done preparing for a launch, his velocity vs that of someone who jumps just as high is the same due to the gravitational constant. However, the time it takes for his gather to prepare his muscles to release said pressure through his hips down to his feet is a different matter. THAT is the difference b/t explosiveness. After the jump, its all the same given equal terminal height. Did I explain that well enough? A rocket that takes 10 seconds to prep vs a rocket that takes 1 second to prep. They will both launch at the same speed, but one rocket gets there 9 seconds faster.
I think people confuse explosiveness with reflex action. Webber always looked explosive before his knee injury. But in reality, he just reacted quicker than the players around him. Of course he had great leaping ability to go with it. But it was his quick reactions that made him appear to be explosive. There is so much that goes into athleticism, and its rare to find someone that has the entire package. And has a brain to go with it. And, when you do find someone that comes close to having the whole package, they usually tend to just rely on that god given ability and not put in the work to develop what they have. But thats another story for another day.
Tyreke is more of a quickness, change of pace/direction type of athlete. He was never an above the rim finisher and that's a concern. Even though there are definitely ways he can work around it, not having that ability will certainly limit his upside and that's one of the reasons why I always gave Rubio the edge in draft discussions.
agreed...like him or not, it's way too early to tell what he can or cant do.
I prefer the end of the season since we got nothing to lose. Giving up on your 4th pick without a complete test drive might have consequences.
And we do have a lot to lose. Sure the wins difference maybe minimal, but the PG is the leader on the floor. The other people around depend on the PG. If they lose confidence as a team it can be disasterous and back to end of last year type stuff.
I think the biggest problem with Evans is he has been so overhyped from people here to grant, mike, jerry, and the maloofs. He hasn't shown or proven anything at the NBA level. There have been tons of busts with loads of talent. I'm not sure Evans is being put in the best spot to succeed. From the high expectations to starting it maybe too much for him at this point.
One year to see what kind of progress is made...If he has improved in general and shows that he has the makings of a long term PG (even if he still has obvious holes), I evaluate where he's at during the start of year 2. I'd say by the middle of year two, we'd have given him a chance to succeed and should have a pretty good idea if this will work or not.
No matter what way you slice it, we probably win 20 to 30 games this year regardless so no need to jerk around with your potential franchise cornerstone.
Of course, all of this could change if the best player available when we draft is a PG and we re-evaluate the long term plan.
No matter what way you slice it, we probably win 20 to 30 games this year regardless so no need to jerk around with your potential franchise cornerstone.
Of course, all of this could change if the best player available when we draft is a PG and we re-evaluate the long term plan.
Tyreke reminds me alot of John Salmons when hes going to the rim. Johnny could get there at will and he rarely finished with a dunk, mostly just layups at rim level(hardly missing or getting blocked for some reason). I dont really care if Evans finishes with a dunk or a layup as long as he finishes with authority. And Salmons proved that you can finish with authority by laying it up.
K
I can't believe after one game that some people have gone off the deep end already. I'm going to tell you people something:
Every year in fantasy basketball, somebody always jumps the gun after one game and drops one of their higher (6th rd, 5th rd) picks for a player who had one good game. Last year it was Derrick Rose for Wilson Chandler. The year before it was Danny Granger. The year before that it was Caron Butler. And everytime, the person who dropped that player ends up getting burned. The moral of this story? IT WAS ONE FREAKING GAME!!!!!! If they are 0-20 after 20 games, and there are a number of negative trends, then yes! Call for someone's head.
But don't jump the damn gun people. It was only one game. And the first one for our heralded rookie. Chill.
Every year in fantasy basketball, somebody always jumps the gun after one game and drops one of their higher (6th rd, 5th rd) picks for a player who had one good game. Last year it was Derrick Rose for Wilson Chandler. The year before it was Danny Granger. The year before that it was Caron Butler. And everytime, the person who dropped that player ends up getting burned. The moral of this story? IT WAS ONE FREAKING GAME!!!!!! If they are 0-20 after 20 games, and there are a number of negative trends, then yes! Call for someone's head.
But don't jump the damn gun people. It was only one game. And the first one for our heralded rookie. Chill.
Actually, it's not. The time for muscles to prime for the jump is resulting in a zero acceleration. It's effectively potential energy. The acceleration you are speaking of would actually be negative, as the speed at which he is going up will decrease at the gravitational rate from the very moment he lifts off the ground. Given two individuals with same terminal vertical jump(force), terminal height/weight(mass), leaving the ground at the same time, they will reach the exact same height, at the exact same time.
Where I digress is the priming of turning potential energy into kinetic. This is where the layman term explosiveness comes in. How fast can he translate energy into a jump? If we go back to my rocket example, if they both lifted off at the same time, they will both get there at the same time. However, one rocket can get started faster, so holding startup constraints constant(like on the court), one rocket (person) will reach 0 velocity (max vert) at a faster time than another (person) given a quicker startup time (explosiveness).
Where I digress is the priming of turning potential energy into kinetic. This is where the layman term explosiveness comes in. How fast can he translate energy into a jump? If we go back to my rocket example, if they both lifted off at the same time, they will both get there at the same time. However, one rocket can get started faster, so holding startup constraints constant(like on the court), one rocket (person) will reach 0 velocity (max vert) at a faster time than another (person) given a quicker startup time (explosiveness).
Never said he couldn't dunk. His measurements show he can dunk quite easily. However, a one footed, driving dunk over traffic is another matter entirely. You do not have optimal speed, optimal space, and constantly changing your footwork to avoid players. A straight dunk is easy (for them). A dunk after weaving in traffic and going over eveyrone else is another matter entirely.
Bibby could dunk in practice. So could J-will. Do they do it in games? No, because a game changes the way you can get to the hoop.
Bibby could dunk in practice. So could J-will. Do they do it in games? No, because a game changes the way you can get to the hoop.
He can dunk easily. He just moves to the rim so quickly that he doesnt have time to gather balance and spring off his feet. Someone like lebron has a 42" running vertical and can jump off balance and still be 34" in the air and dunk on you plus he is taller.
A guy with a 34" max vert off balance would probably get 20-24" off the ground off balance that's why he decides to lay up. I wonder what his leg routine is... his upperbody is very well developed but I wonder how this legs are in comparison.
He is a quick nunner so he has to have a decent amount of fast twitch muscle... his trainers should focus on exercises that activate his large motor units quicker and develop the fast twich muscle a bit more.
I believe he is 6'4 barefoot listed at 6'5 with shoes for the NBA. That reach of his makes him effectively 6'6 1/2 though with shoes. I don't think anyone of us have seen him play long enough to be able to tell what he can and can't do on the court quite yet.
If he played at 205lb he would get off his feet more like what you guys want from him... but he plays at 225lb on a 6'4 frame... that's heavy, which makes his speed impressive. If he was lebrons height he would be at around 255lb which makes what lebron 260-265LB can do on the floor atheltically really impressive. That man is a freak of nature.
A guy with a 34" max vert off balance would probably get 20-24" off the ground off balance that's why he decides to lay up. I wonder what his leg routine is... his upperbody is very well developed but I wonder how this legs are in comparison.
He is a quick nunner so he has to have a decent amount of fast twitch muscle... his trainers should focus on exercises that activate his large motor units quicker and develop the fast twich muscle a bit more.
I believe he is 6'4 barefoot listed at 6'5 with shoes for the NBA. That reach of his makes him effectively 6'6 1/2 though with shoes. I don't think anyone of us have seen him play long enough to be able to tell what he can and can't do on the court quite yet.
If he played at 205lb he would get off his feet more like what you guys want from him... but he plays at 225lb on a 6'4 frame... that's heavy, which makes his speed impressive. If he was lebrons height he would be at around 255lb which makes what lebron 260-265LB can do on the floor atheltically really impressive. That man is a freak of nature.
K
Yes. I'm not an expert, but you aren't either.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_mannix/10/28/lakers.bulls/index.html
Who will have the better year -- Tyreke Evans or Stephen Curry?
It's probably a toss-up this season. Evans will have free reign in Paul Westphal's offense that will lead to big numbers. But Curry could be a 15-to-17-point scorer playing Nellie ball. If you're asking which player I would rather have on my team, I'm taking Evans. Curry has the potential to be an explosive scorer for a long time, but Evans has franchise guard written all over him. In talking to executives who worked out Evans before the draft, more often than not I could hear some surprise in their voices at how dynamic Evans really was. Whether it's at point guard or shooting guard, Evans is a future All-Star who has the ability to lead a winning team someday.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_mannix/10/28/lakers.bulls/index.html
Who will have the better year -- Tyreke Evans or Stephen Curry?
It's probably a toss-up this season. Evans will have free reign in Paul Westphal's offense that will lead to big numbers. But Curry could be a 15-to-17-point scorer playing Nellie ball. If you're asking which player I would rather have on my team, I'm taking Evans. Curry has the potential to be an explosive scorer for a long time, but Evans has franchise guard written all over him. In talking to executives who worked out Evans before the draft, more often than not I could hear some surprise in their voices at how dynamic Evans really was. Whether it's at point guard or shooting guard, Evans is a future All-Star who has the ability to lead a winning team someday.
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I have probably been a bit harsh (that's an understatement lol) on Evans...
I like him as an all around player... I just hate that they are trying to make him into a PG. Nothing that I have ever seen in his game leads me to believe that he will ever become more than a ball handling SG.
I have already come to the conclusion that many defenders of him playing PG will use the excuse that he's in his rookie year, or when he's in his 2nd year people will say he's only one year removed from college where he only played one year ect ect ect... That's fine.. But I am going to keep my stance on him not being a PG because he is not. But I do look forward to a game where he has 10 assists and everyone tries to call me out on it like I call them out on games where he has just a couple while looking lost on the floor..
Good times ahead... Bottom line is I want what's best for the Kings because I hate seeing them lose, and when (in my opinion) they bring a SG to play point they are not moving in the right direction..
So let's argue.. I said I wouldn't start until the season began, and it has so let's get ready to rummmmmmmmble!
30 minutes to game time, and I am sure you all know where my eyes will be.. Yep, dissecting the PG play.. But all in good fun of course..
disclaimer: don't take any of my arguments to heart.. I am not saying anything against anyone with any kind of malice.
I like him as an all around player... I just hate that they are trying to make him into a PG. Nothing that I have ever seen in his game leads me to believe that he will ever become more than a ball handling SG.
I have already come to the conclusion that many defenders of him playing PG will use the excuse that he's in his rookie year, or when he's in his 2nd year people will say he's only one year removed from college where he only played one year ect ect ect... That's fine.. But I am going to keep my stance on him not being a PG because he is not. But I do look forward to a game where he has 10 assists and everyone tries to call me out on it like I call them out on games where he has just a couple while looking lost on the floor..
Good times ahead... Bottom line is I want what's best for the Kings because I hate seeing them lose, and when (in my opinion) they bring a SG to play point they are not moving in the right direction..
So let's argue.. I said I wouldn't start until the season began, and it has so let's get ready to rummmmmmmmble!
30 minutes to game time, and I am sure you all know where my eyes will be.. Yep, dissecting the PG play.. But all in good fun of course..
disclaimer: don't take any of my arguments to heart.. I am not saying anything against anyone with any kind of malice.
See, that's the thing - watching him play you don't see the PG mentality. That can be attributed to being young, not having played a lot of college ball, whatever. All of these "experts" calling him a franchise guy is OK, but the whole point that a lot of us are trying to make is that we are limiting him by forcing him to create. He just does not have the mentality. You can see a PG a mile away. CP3, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose... I know they're big names, but all of them knew what to do with the ball, even as rookies - the numbers might not have been there, they played on bad teams, but just watching them you could see they knew what try to do. I don't know if people want him there because the only other position he could play is taken by a very good player that is in his prime, but as of right now I would rather see Sergio and Tyreke as PG/SG than Tyreke/KMart... However, we're not in a hurry, we can't get worse, and even if we do so what? I have no qualms about leaving him in there if we see improvement. I don't care about numbers, just to see him developing those PG traits. If he doesn't, then hell, maybe he just isn't one.
As of right now he can't shoot, can't create, and is just not very good at finishing. Personally, it's my belief that sticking him with the burden of running a bad team is hindering him. He needs freedom, and to focus on improving HIS game, not the game of others around him. We did not draft an NBA ready player @ PG, and shouldn't use him as such. I hope this experiment works out, I like him, I really do. Nothing would make me more happy to have a 6'5" PG that can make opposing players cry. But he just seems to not be ready for this. I'd rather use him as a Brandon Roy clone, or DW... a scoring 2 guard that can share ballhandling duties.
As of right now he can't shoot, can't create, and is just not very good at finishing. Personally, it's my belief that sticking him with the burden of running a bad team is hindering him. He needs freedom, and to focus on improving HIS game, not the game of others around him. We did not draft an NBA ready player @ PG, and shouldn't use him as such. I hope this experiment works out, I like him, I really do. Nothing would make me more happy to have a 6'5" PG that can make opposing players cry. But he just seems to not be ready for this. I'd rather use him as a Brandon Roy clone, or DW... a scoring 2 guard that can share ballhandling duties.
I have probably been a bit harsh (that's an understatement lol) on Evans...
I like him as an all around player... I just hate that they are trying to make him into a PG. Nothing that I have ever seen in his game leads me to believe that he will ever become more than a ball handling SG.
I have already come to the conclusion that many defenders of him playing PG will use the excuse that he's in his rookie year, or when he's in his 2nd year people will say he's only one year removed from college where he only played one year ect ect ect... That's fine.. But I am going to keep my stance on him not being a PG because he is not. But I do look forward to a game where he has 10 assists and everyone tries to call me out on it like I call them out on games where he has just a couple while looking lost on the floor..
Good times ahead... Bottom line is I want what's best for the Kings because I hate seeing them lose, and when (in my opinion) they bring a SG to play point they are not moving in the right direction..
So let's argue.. I said I wouldn't start until the season began, and it has so let's get ready to rummmmmmmmble!
30 minutes to game time, and I am sure you all know where my eyes will be.. Yep, dissecting the PG play.. But all in good fun of course..
disclaimer: don't take any of my arguments to heart.. I am not saying anything against anyone with any kind of malice.
I like him as an all around player... I just hate that they are trying to make him into a PG. Nothing that I have ever seen in his game leads me to believe that he will ever become more than a ball handling SG.
I have already come to the conclusion that many defenders of him playing PG will use the excuse that he's in his rookie year, or when he's in his 2nd year people will say he's only one year removed from college where he only played one year ect ect ect... That's fine.. But I am going to keep my stance on him not being a PG because he is not. But I do look forward to a game where he has 10 assists and everyone tries to call me out on it like I call them out on games where he has just a couple while looking lost on the floor..
Good times ahead... Bottom line is I want what's best for the Kings because I hate seeing them lose, and when (in my opinion) they bring a SG to play point they are not moving in the right direction..
So let's argue.. I said I wouldn't start until the season began, and it has so let's get ready to rummmmmmmmble!
30 minutes to game time, and I am sure you all know where my eyes will be.. Yep, dissecting the PG play.. But all in good fun of course..
disclaimer: don't take any of my arguments to heart.. I am not saying anything against anyone with any kind of malice.
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