Old ESPN article on Evans..
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okay fine, me, you and gary.... we'll get them all one at a time... patience is the key.
Bottom line, if he does turn out to be the player a lot of us are hoping he'll be, I know you and Gary - both avid Kings fans - will be just as happy as anyone else.
A
ugh... you did when you said that evans was better at drawing fouls and getting to the line than martin who was 2nd in the entire nba at free throw attempts.... even if evans averaged 0.5 more attempts per game than martin he would pass howard and be number 1 in the nba as a rookie.
you said...
then you said...
thats where all of this started with you saying that he will average more fta than martin....
A
Don't get me wrong. I think Tyreke Evans is the real deal and I'm very optimistic he'll be able to perform at the 1 to meet the needs of the team. I'm just not sold on making him an all-star or HOFer quite yet.
Bottom line, if he does turn out to be the player a lot of us are hoping he'll be, I know you and Gary - both avid Kings fans - will be just as happy as anyone else.
Bottom line, if he does turn out to be the player a lot of us are hoping he'll be, I know you and Gary - both avid Kings fans - will be just as happy as anyone else.
A
Um... I'd say "yes" but we both know I'll find a way to weasel out of it. I can't admit you're right about anything. It would create a rift in the space-time continuum...and we all know what kind of a mess that makes.
I can't admit you're right about anything. It would create a rift in the space-time continuum...and we all know what kind of a mess that makes.
will do just fine.... or maybe even a . because we all know that i will be ....
You did say he was going to average more FT than Martin, and like Aries said he was second in the league (I guess I was looking at western conference, because I thought he was #1)..
Getting to the line is arguably Martin's greatest skill.. If for some reason this year Martin averages 6 to 7 FTs per game then I think we will look at Martin and think something is majorly wrong with his game. If Evans was putting up 8 FTs a game we might be looking at Evans and wondering whats up with his play making ability, or the ability to see the open man/cutter.
I don't "hate" Evans although I had two PGs ahead of him on my wish list, I just don't think he's a full time PG. There is nothing wrong with anyone saying that. Right now I would consider him a "Guard". There are a lot more of those in the league which doesn't really bug me. He can handle the ball just fine, and he can create his own shot/drive just fine as well.
I take it you saw Memphis games this year right? The Kings drafted Evans to play PG when Anderson (who played forward) was twice as good of a distributor as Evans was last year. This raises a lot of red flags. And of course Martin being my favorite King might be put on the blocks once they move Evans to SG. I don't think Evans and Martin will be able to play well together unless Martin wants to sit outside and rain 3pt shots because of Evans not having an outside game to speak of, which if that was the case we might as well trade Martin and start Garcia since Garcia has as good of a long range shot, and a better mid-range game than Martin IMO.
Getting to the line is arguably Martin's greatest skill.. If for some reason this year Martin averages 6 to 7 FTs per game then I think we will look at Martin and think something is majorly wrong with his game. If Evans was putting up 8 FTs a game we might be looking at Evans and wondering whats up with his play making ability, or the ability to see the open man/cutter.
I don't "hate" Evans although I had two PGs ahead of him on my wish list, I just don't think he's a full time PG. There is nothing wrong with anyone saying that. Right now I would consider him a "Guard". There are a lot more of those in the league which doesn't really bug me. He can handle the ball just fine, and he can create his own shot/drive just fine as well.
I take it you saw Memphis games this year right? The Kings drafted Evans to play PG when Anderson (who played forward) was twice as good of a distributor as Evans was last year. This raises a lot of red flags. And of course Martin being my favorite King might be put on the blocks once they move Evans to SG. I don't think Evans and Martin will be able to play well together unless Martin wants to sit outside and rain 3pt shots because of Evans not having an outside game to speak of, which if that was the case we might as well trade Martin and start Garcia since Garcia has as good of a long range shot, and a better mid-range game than Martin IMO.
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K
Better at drawing fouls doesn't mean MORE fta than Martin. Look, we can argue this all day, but the bottom line is when the game is on the line, the ability of Reke to get to the rim and draw a foul will far outshine Martin's every day of the season.
The problem here is you are looking at the game in its entirety. All I care about is who is ahead at the end of the game. The bottom line is when it comes down to it with the game on the line, Reke will prove my point time and again.
Just like Peja could score 30 points in 3 quarters, while shooting an astounding 9/13 from the field and 6/7 from 3pt range, but at the end of the game he has 32 points and ended up 0/5 in the 4th quarter with 2/2 free throws at the 10 minute mark in the 4th.
'But he shot 50 percent so that makes him a lights out shooter'.
'Yeah but he did nothing to help you win when the game was on the line'.
Martin can get to the line through 3 quarters. When the intensity is turned up a notch and the defenses get tighter, refs get more reluctant to call those sissy fouls for Martin. Reke will show you that by getting past your man and making it so that their only way to stop you IS to foul you, he IN THE OVERALL, LONG TERM, 4 QUARTER BASKETBALL GAME does a better job of making people foul him.
Kevin can GET people to foul him. Reke will MAKE people HAVE to foul him. There is a big difference and one I guess you can't see.
The problem here is you are looking at the game in its entirety. All I care about is who is ahead at the end of the game. The bottom line is when it comes down to it with the game on the line, Reke will prove my point time and again.
Just like Peja could score 30 points in 3 quarters, while shooting an astounding 9/13 from the field and 6/7 from 3pt range, but at the end of the game he has 32 points and ended up 0/5 in the 4th quarter with 2/2 free throws at the 10 minute mark in the 4th.
'But he shot 50 percent so that makes him a lights out shooter'.
'Yeah but he did nothing to help you win when the game was on the line'.
Martin can get to the line through 3 quarters. When the intensity is turned up a notch and the defenses get tighter, refs get more reluctant to call those sissy fouls for Martin. Reke will show you that by getting past your man and making it so that their only way to stop you IS to foul you, he IN THE OVERALL, LONG TERM, 4 QUARTER BASKETBALL GAME does a better job of making people foul him.
Kevin can GET people to foul him. Reke will MAKE people HAVE to foul him. There is a big difference and one I guess you can't see.
A
here....
either that or you meant that he will just get fouled and wont be shooting any freethrows... being able to draw fouls usually means the ability to get to the freethrow line and actually shooting freethrows. i cant think of a single player in the nba outside of shaq in his prime and dwight howard that draws more fouls than martin by just standing there. but they get fouled because they are poor ft shooters. i dont think that teams will do that to evans... why waste a dumb foul on a rookie against the worst team in the nba?
unless you mean that evans will be hack-a-shaq'd all game long.
either that or you meant that he will just get fouled and wont be shooting any freethrows... being able to draw fouls usually means the ability to get to the freethrow line and actually shooting freethrows. i cant think of a single player in the nba outside of shaq in his prime and dwight howard that draws more fouls than martin by just standing there. but they get fouled because they are poor ft shooters. i dont think that teams will do that to evans... why waste a dumb foul on a rookie against the worst team in the nba?
unless you mean that evans will be hack-a-shaq'd all game long.
I know the difference between getting people to foul you and making people have to foul but obviously you don't know that drawing fouls while driving to the rim usually ends up as FTs because you wanted to take this in a whole different direction when you know perfectly well what we were talking about. You should know if you are a Kings fan that when we talk about MARTIN, and FOULS that we are talking about getting to the line.. You do understand this right?
So you don't misunderstand me this time I will put it in plain English...
If both Martin, and Evans played the full 82 games this year;
A) Martin will get to the FT line more than Evans
B) Martin will score more points than Evans
Now if we are talking about who's fouled the most I am not even sure where you would look for a stat like that because there are a lot of ticky tack back court touch fouls, and loose ball fouls.
So you don't misunderstand me this time I will put it in plain English...
If both Martin, and Evans played the full 82 games this year;
A) Martin will get to the FT line more than Evans
B) Martin will score more points than Evans
Now if we are talking about who's fouled the most I am not even sure where you would look for a stat like that because there are a lot of ticky tack back court touch fouls, and loose ball fouls.
Good news, you wont have to dread the idea of having to juggle between Martin/Evans @ sg because Evans is actually going to play pg. You sir... are a funny guy
It's ok though. A lot of people find it funny when people call Evans a PG. He's a Guard, or kind of a combo guard.
Anyone else find it funny that first it's Evans VS the PG position, then when that has lost its effect its become Evans VS Martin in FTAs? I wonder what's next. Maybe Evans VS Sean May in weight. EVANS IS GONNA LEAD THE LEAGUE IN WEIGHT NEXT SEASON! NO way how can you say that evans will be heavier than may?!!!
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i think what it really is; homerism vs the real world...
its still evans vs pg... lets not get it twisted. the fact that he more than likely wont be a pg for the long haul is what created the evans vs martin in fta... both of them will be playing the same position and doing the same thing, attacking the basket.
its still evans vs pg... lets not get it twisted. the fact that he more than likely wont be a pg for the long haul is what created the evans vs martin in fta... both of them will be playing the same position and doing the same thing, attacking the basket.
K
Let me see if I can explain this a little more clearer.
I haven't come out and said SPECIFICALLY that Evans will shoot more free throws this year than Kevin. That would be dumb, because Evans is a rookie and Kevin is already at game speed.
What I did say is that Evans will be better at drawing fouls than Kevin will, because the only way opponents will be able to stop him from scoring is to foul him. There is a big difference here.
I'm not talking about in the first quarter, Martin's man isn't into the game yet and so he fouls Martin when he tries to go by him.
You know those times, at the end of games, when Martin will have the ball and try to get to the rim and get stripped, or try to get off a wild outside shot with a defender all over him? You know how you screamed, either at the tv or in your head, that Martin was fouled and there was no call. And then replay shows you that there was a bit of contact and the refs could have blown the whistle. So you get madder.
That call is going to be whistled, not every time but a lot of the time, for Evans. He is so strong and big, with such good handles for a guy his size, and a difficult cover for either guard position, which makes it really difficult to stay in front of him. I won't bore you with the details because at this point I have been over every analogy I care to conjure up to place in front of you to understand this.
Its going to be very difficult for refs NOT to call this type of foul, because it is desperation. The defender is desperate to do anything to stop this person from scoring and you know what? Evans is so strong that he probably will still finish at the rim.
If I was crazy about this then why did David Thorpe say this on the insider:
3. Tyreke Evans, Kings
Can he crush opponents as a scorer? Yes. Is he a triple-double threat? Yes. Will he have a chance to break some kind of rookie free throws-per-game record? Perhaps. Sure, Evans has a lot to learn about playing the point guard position, but with his enormous talent, he's starting with very high expectations.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...ry?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Rookies-090717
if you have the insider follow the link.
I haven't come out and said SPECIFICALLY that Evans will shoot more free throws this year than Kevin. That would be dumb, because Evans is a rookie and Kevin is already at game speed.
What I did say is that Evans will be better at drawing fouls than Kevin will, because the only way opponents will be able to stop him from scoring is to foul him. There is a big difference here.
I'm not talking about in the first quarter, Martin's man isn't into the game yet and so he fouls Martin when he tries to go by him.
You know those times, at the end of games, when Martin will have the ball and try to get to the rim and get stripped, or try to get off a wild outside shot with a defender all over him? You know how you screamed, either at the tv or in your head, that Martin was fouled and there was no call. And then replay shows you that there was a bit of contact and the refs could have blown the whistle. So you get madder.
That call is going to be whistled, not every time but a lot of the time, for Evans. He is so strong and big, with such good handles for a guy his size, and a difficult cover for either guard position, which makes it really difficult to stay in front of him. I won't bore you with the details because at this point I have been over every analogy I care to conjure up to place in front of you to understand this.
Its going to be very difficult for refs NOT to call this type of foul, because it is desperation. The defender is desperate to do anything to stop this person from scoring and you know what? Evans is so strong that he probably will still finish at the rim.
If I was crazy about this then why did David Thorpe say this on the insider:
3. Tyreke Evans, Kings
Can he crush opponents as a scorer? Yes. Is he a triple-double threat? Yes. Will he have a chance to break some kind of rookie free throws-per-game record? Perhaps. Sure, Evans has a lot to learn about playing the point guard position, but with his enormous talent, he's starting with very high expectations.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...ry?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Rookies-090717
if you have the insider follow the link.
It's not a fact just because you say it's a fact. And the "homerism vs. the real world" comment is totally without substance.
Yes, there are two definite sides to the current argument about whether or not Evans will be able to perform adequately at the 1, BUT neither side can claim victory until ... oh, I don't know... maybe they actually play some games?
It's great for this debate to continue, but you can't try to claim victory in August.
Yes, there are two definite sides to the current argument about whether or not Evans will be able to perform adequately at the 1, BUT neither side can claim victory until ... oh, I don't know... maybe they actually play some games?
It's great for this debate to continue, but you can't try to claim victory in August.
K
What you quoted still doesn't show me saying that Evans will shoot more free throws than Martin. Why is it so hard to understand that? Being able to draw fouls better does not = more free throw attempts. Evans will get fouled because he GETS fouled. Martin will get fouled because he WANTS to get fouled. Its like one of those things where you are better at doing something when you put your effort at making sure you do it well, instead of just doing what you know people want to see from you.