TDOS Draft to End All Drafts - Round 20
- Thread starter GoGoGadget
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So I've got enough outdoor sports and adventures to last a lifetime. With all the wildlife I'd ever want, and superpowers to boot. What I do need is a bit more entertainment for my utopian isle. This medium isn't perfect, but nothing quite beats it for vegetative stimulation after a long day of work or play. With my 11th pick I select:
Television
Not just the TV, but all the programming to go with it in High Definition, and On Demand (with TiVo too of course
). Live and archived sporting events, concerts, cartoons, sitcoms, stand up comedians, dramas, movies on demand, and my own utopian network (The Best Live Interactive Super Station or B.L.I.S.S.) and it's conglomerates. Now that's entertainment!
More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television
Television
Not just the TV, but all the programming to go with it in High Definition, and On Demand (with TiVo too of course
). Live and archived sporting events, concerts, cartoons, sitcoms, stand up comedians, dramas, movies on demand, and my own utopian network (The Best Live Interactive Super Station or B.L.I.S.S.) and it's conglomerates. Now that's entertainment!More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television
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I don't really have a problem with the slow pace of the draft (except that it holds back other drafts) because it seemed like some drafts moved too fast. When Slim introduced the music draft I think his first post suggested it would get us through the offseason. However I think when it gets to the point that some of the same people enter multiple drafts and hold them up maybe they should be excluded from future drafts.
If you sign up you ought to be able to commit to checking once a day and if you go on vacation for a few days you can send a pick to a neutral party to be made for you and extend the courtesy of making an announcement to everyone before you go.
If you sign up you ought to be able to commit to checking once a day and if you go on vacation for a few days you can send a pick to a neutral party to be made for you and extend the courtesy of making an announcement to everyone before you go.
This is kind of where I am, which is why I have traditionally been reluctant to make drastic changes (I know the draft I headed last year was a bit slow for some, as well). With the exception of days that I'm avoiding housework (ahem), I very seldom check the boards more than once in the morning and once at night, so I certainly don't expect others to do more.
However, I will admit to being somewhat annoyed by missing picks because you just don't give a damn, which is frankly the feeling that I've gotten a few times. I'd be the last person on the planet to give a "you have a responsibility" lecture about an online draft meant to kill time, because... really... but that doesn't mean such a lecture wouldn't necessarily be true. I, personally, wouldn't sign up for one of these if I knew I was prone to several day absences.
However, I will admit to being somewhat annoyed by missing picks because you just don't give a damn, which is frankly the feeling that I've gotten a few times. I'd be the last person on the planet to give a "you have a responsibility" lecture about an online draft meant to kill time, because... really... but that doesn't mean such a lecture wouldn't necessarily be true. I, personally, wouldn't sign up for one of these if I knew I was prone to several day absences.
I am intent on not defining my existence in this draft with a particular location, so this next draft is not where I hypothetically live, but rather something to which I have eternal, uninterrupted (and free) access with no limitations.
Disneyland Resort, Anaheim, CA -- I am generally of the opinion that Disney is an evil corporation, but damn it all if I don't love this place. I'm ridiculous at Disneyland. A bundle of excitement, dorkily bounding from one ride to another, speaking only in onomatopoeia. And this is, sadly, as an adult. I could go here every single day and never get tired of it. It's a sickness, really. From the time I was five until now, this view always gets a squeal from me because it means fun is almost here, and I don't think it will ever change.
Also, while I have no real use for the hotels (except maybe the one built to mimic classic Craftsmen architecture, which is surprisingly tasteful), I did specifically choose the entire resort. This gives me access not only to my beloved Disneyland, but also California Adventure and Downtown Disney.
Disneyland Resort, Anaheim, CA -- I am generally of the opinion that Disney is an evil corporation, but damn it all if I don't love this place. I'm ridiculous at Disneyland. A bundle of excitement, dorkily bounding from one ride to another, speaking only in onomatopoeia. And this is, sadly, as an adult. I could go here every single day and never get tired of it. It's a sickness, really. From the time I was five until now, this view always gets a squeal from me because it means fun is almost here, and I don't think it will ever change.
Also, while I have no real use for the hotels (except maybe the one built to mimic classic Craftsmen architecture, which is surprisingly tasteful), I did specifically choose the entire resort. This gives me access not only to my beloved Disneyland, but also California Adventure and Downtown Disney.
Ok thats ridiculous. How am I supposed to know I'm up? I checked who was on deck, Kings4lyfe... I don't know when he is timing out so I check my inbox every once in a while to see if he has timed out yet... I get no message. It's not my fault if I'm not notified when Kings4lyfe has timed out. It also doesn't state anywhere between where I said "im running out of things to pick" and now that Kings4lyfe has timed out. If someone would have messaged me I would have been right on top of it, but no one does. I don't deserve a shortened clock because other people aren't doing their job.
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Okay, wait. You can put the lid back on that can of "righteous indignation"...
The REAL point is that this draft has been inexorably slow, and the idea it's barely half over is really a bummer for people who have drafts waiting to start. I think the main consideration is that a couple of people have disappeared, only to show up once a week or even less.
The PMs are meant to be a courtesy, and if you didn't get one, someone dropped the ball. I know it's frustrating but it's equally hard on commissioners to try and keep these things going when they don't have any more time than anyone else to spend trying to police the participants. You've made your pick - no harm no foul.
The REAL point is that this draft has been inexorably slow, and the idea it's barely half over is really a bummer for people who have drafts waiting to start. I think the main consideration is that a couple of people have disappeared, only to show up once a week or even less.
The PMs are meant to be a courtesy, and if you didn't get one, someone dropped the ball. I know it's frustrating but it's equally hard on commissioners to try and keep these things going when they don't have any more time than anyone else to spend trying to police the participants. You've made your pick - no harm no foul.
We have a waiting list of drafts so having one draft - or two - drag on interminably simply defeats the whole purpose of having TDOS drafts to begin with. Whatever Slim may or may not have thought would happen with the original music draft so long ago, they've evolved to a much more active pastime than I think anyone could have imagined.
I think 20 rounds of this particular draft is way too many, but that's beside the point. I do agree that certain people may have great intentions but simply do not follow up. They shouldn't be kept on draft boards and allowed to bring everything to a screeching halt. As G3 said, it's just passing time on a message board, but it's something a lot of people enjoy and those who don't honor the small commitment required should either not sign up or bow out if it turns out to be something different than what they anticipated.
At this point, I think anyone who has missed two consecutive turns should be dropped. Plop. And anyone who times out more than once in the same draft without cause should be dropped. Plop. The majority of participants in these things are having a lot of fun and enjoying themselves. Why should one or two unreliable participants ruin it for all of them?
I think 20 rounds of this particular draft is way too many, but that's beside the point. I do agree that certain people may have great intentions but simply do not follow up. They shouldn't be kept on draft boards and allowed to bring everything to a screeching halt. As G3 said, it's just passing time on a message board, but it's something a lot of people enjoy and those who don't honor the small commitment required should either not sign up or bow out if it turns out to be something different than what they anticipated.
At this point, I think anyone who has missed two consecutive turns should be dropped. Plop. And anyone who times out more than once in the same draft without cause should be dropped. Plop. The majority of participants in these things are having a lot of fun and enjoying themselves. Why should one or two unreliable participants ruin it for all of them?
I'm not trying to sound righteous. I'm just saying I don't like being accused of contributing to the slowness of this draft when I'm pretty much signed in 80% of the day. I'm not one of those people who dissapear for days at a time an I don't like to be grouped with them because I'm at their end of th draft scale. I've only timed out like twice, and once was totally my bad I just had no idea I was up, and the other time their was graduation stuff going on. I shouldn't have to be skipped because someone else isn't around for 90% of the draft, lol.
I'll accept responsibility for the fact that I should have PMed you about the fact that kings4lyfe32 had timed out, and the fact that I was making the decision to move on with the draft. I didn't, and I apologize if my lack of a PM kept you from realizing that it was your turn. Since I have noticed that this summer there is no shortage of posters who have been stepping in with reminder PMs, so admittedly I've been erring on the side of not clogging everyone's inbox with repetitive information.
Additionally, I apologize if I lumped you in with a group of people who've timed out repeatedly if it wasn't deserved. I'd be lying if I said I was keeping a tally of how many times each individual poster has timed out, but it feels like I've had to update several make-up picks for you, and that simply isn't the case for other participants in this draft.
Lastly, as a note not just to you but to the rest of the draft, as well, I have made it a point to update the draft board several times a day, whether or not there are PMs to accompany those updates. I would suggest giving it a glance when you sign in just to keep track of where things are in here. I don't like the idea of unceremoniously dropping people who aren't picking fast enough, so I won't be doing that, but if the pace of this draft continues to be an issue or prevents other drafts from starting, I don't know how long I'm going to stick with an 18-hour clock. For anyone. The category is broad enough, and the selections diverse enough, that I don't feel particularly compelled to do so in the same way I would for a draft with a more limited pool to choose from.
Additionally, I apologize if I lumped you in with a group of people who've timed out repeatedly if it wasn't deserved. I'd be lying if I said I was keeping a tally of how many times each individual poster has timed out, but it feels like I've had to update several make-up picks for you, and that simply isn't the case for other participants in this draft.
Lastly, as a note not just to you but to the rest of the draft, as well, I have made it a point to update the draft board several times a day, whether or not there are PMs to accompany those updates. I would suggest giving it a glance when you sign in just to keep track of where things are in here. I don't like the idea of unceremoniously dropping people who aren't picking fast enough, so I won't be doing that, but if the pace of this draft continues to be an issue or prevents other drafts from starting, I don't know how long I'm going to stick with an 18-hour clock. For anyone. The category is broad enough, and the selections diverse enough, that I don't feel particularly compelled to do so in the same way I would for a draft with a more limited pool to choose from.
With all due respect, if the rules are you have 18 hours to make a pick you should not be begrudged for using 17 of those hours. Nor should people be PMing other people reminding them to hurry and make their pick just 2 or 3 hours after they went on the clock. If people want quick pick drafts then make 2 or 3 hour draft clocks, but then there will be lots of time outs.
That said there are 3 or 4 bad drafters that have ground this to a halt and if you want to kick them out that is fine. I'd merely suggest barring them from any future drafts and let this run its course but that isn't my call. I don't think this draft is too long and without those 3 or 4 people this draft could have easily been over a week ago.
Maybe a good future system would be to give everyone the original 24 hour clock but each time they time out cut their future time outs in half. Time out once and you get 12 hours until your next time out. After that 6. Then 3. I'd say stop at that point and you've solved that problem real fast. But I don't think you should just change rules mid draft.
Also if a draft really is that slow and is dying on the vine there's no real reason you can't allow the next super awesome can't fail draft to start early, is there?
That said there are 3 or 4 bad drafters that have ground this to a halt and if you want to kick them out that is fine. I'd merely suggest barring them from any future drafts and let this run its course but that isn't my call. I don't think this draft is too long and without those 3 or 4 people this draft could have easily been over a week ago.
Maybe a good future system would be to give everyone the original 24 hour clock but each time they time out cut their future time outs in half. Time out once and you get 12 hours until your next time out. After that 6. Then 3. I'd say stop at that point and you've solved that problem real fast. But I don't think you should just change rules mid draft.
Also if a draft really is that slow and is dying on the vine there's no real reason you can't allow the next super awesome can't fail draft to start early, is there?
The idea of the 18-hour clock wasn't so people could have 18 hours to think about their next pick. It was primarily to allow time for people to reasonably check the board, especially since some of our members are in vastly different time zones. Just because there are 18 hours maximum allowed between picks, doesn't mean anyone is actually expecting each participant to take 18 hours. It's a worst-case scenario, not a guideline.
I'm not the commissioner of this draft, so it's not up to me to drop anyone. G3 will determine that and I think she's made it pretty clear what actions she may take, as is her wont. You may not think the draft is too long, but I suspect part of that may be proprietary in nature.
Again NO ONE said anything about changing rules mid-draft but once someone has timed out, to continue to allow them to disrupt the draft by repeat timeouts (even with a shorter clock) seems contra-indicated. But again, not my call.
We decided a long time ago not to have more than three drafts going at the same time. That way they allow people the diversion but don't completely take over the board.
If you look back, I'm not the only one who has mentioned the problems this draft has had as far as a couple of people truly slowing things down for no real reason. The majority of participants in this - and any of the other drafts - are having a great time and are usually anxiously awaiting their turn to come around so they can make their picks. Why should they receive less consideration than the few who haven't even given the courtesy of a note about their lack of attention?
Again, I know you created this draft and then turned it over to G3, who has done an admirable job as commissioner. I've given my input, which she has read and considered, and usually turned down, which is cool. It is her draft to run as she sees fit. My comments are not directed at her, or by extension at you. They're directed at people like kings4lyfe32 (who has had significant problems in other drafts) and atxrocker.
As the draft has progressed, I think IMHO that perhaps 20 rounds is too many. But AGAIN, that's not my choice to make. It's G3's. One concern I have is that by the time the thing is over, those people who you're looking to as voters will have totally lost interest. And that's a shame because although the drafts consist of only a certain number of active participants, they've usually been pretty popular for the people who just want to read along and learn a bit more about their fellow KF members.
I'm not the commissioner of this draft, so it's not up to me to drop anyone. G3 will determine that and I think she's made it pretty clear what actions she may take, as is her wont. You may not think the draft is too long, but I suspect part of that may be proprietary in nature.
Again NO ONE said anything about changing rules mid-draft but once someone has timed out, to continue to allow them to disrupt the draft by repeat timeouts (even with a shorter clock) seems contra-indicated. But again, not my call.
We decided a long time ago not to have more than three drafts going at the same time. That way they allow people the diversion but don't completely take over the board.
If you look back, I'm not the only one who has mentioned the problems this draft has had as far as a couple of people truly slowing things down for no real reason. The majority of participants in this - and any of the other drafts - are having a great time and are usually anxiously awaiting their turn to come around so they can make their picks. Why should they receive less consideration than the few who haven't even given the courtesy of a note about their lack of attention?
Again, I know you created this draft and then turned it over to G3, who has done an admirable job as commissioner. I've given my input, which she has read and considered, and usually turned down, which is cool. It is her draft to run as she sees fit. My comments are not directed at her, or by extension at you. They're directed at people like kings4lyfe32 (who has had significant problems in other drafts) and atxrocker.
As the draft has progressed, I think IMHO that perhaps 20 rounds is too many. But AGAIN, that's not my choice to make. It's G3's. One concern I have is that by the time the thing is over, those people who you're looking to as voters will have totally lost interest. And that's a shame because although the drafts consist of only a certain number of active participants, they've usually been pretty popular for the people who just want to read along and learn a bit more about their fellow KF members.
I really like my rule that I was gonna use for the Multiplayer draft. It was to set a limit on the number of timeouts (collectively, for example 5) then when that number is reached the draft gets cut a round shorter. Then each timeout or 2 after that and the draft gets cut another round shorter. I think this would be a very effective way of evening things out lengthwise because either people timeout and the draft gets shorter, or they don't and everything runs smoothly
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