Assessing Petrie's trade history (split from Evans/Rubio thread)
- Thread starter Capt. Factorial
- Start date
Look! You obviously don't like Petrie and no argument is going to convince you otherwise. Thus, your closeminded on the subject. Thats fine. There's are some things I'm closeminded on also. As I stated in my prior post. You have a good day
What depresses me sometimes, is it doesn't seem to matter how well the team is doing. If you went back and read threads during our high point (2001-2003) you would have read just as much criticism, vitriol and negativism as we see here today. Webber was hugely dumped on right and left and many wanted him gone ASAP after the knee went out, Vlade was often criticized, people hated Peja because he wasn't a franchisr player, Christie was ridiculed, Bibby was no good and people wanted a "real" PG, Adelman was the stupidest coach around, GP was screwing up. And for a while now, everyone seems to hate the Maloofs. (Funny that people outside Sacramento think the Maloofs are great owners.)
This isn't a perfect team, not even close to it right now. But its MY team. I'm proud to have them here in Sacramento. Everyone has the right to criticize and discuss, but sometimes it's just over the top or just ceaseless with nothing positive ever said. That doesn't mean being a pollyanna about it and being blind to problems, but geez.
Honestly, I wonder if the team will be ever be good enough for some fans. I'm with Gavin. Sometimes the negativism in Sacramento gets tiring. Maybe we'll be happier when our supposedly crappy team moves somewhere else and they tear down Arco Arena. Some other city will be happier, too.
Sorry, I just get tired of it sometimes. Maybe I'm just having a bad day.
This isn't a perfect team, not even close to it right now. But its MY team. I'm proud to have them here in Sacramento. Everyone has the right to criticize and discuss, but sometimes it's just over the top or just ceaseless with nothing positive ever said. That doesn't mean being a pollyanna about it and being blind to problems, but geez.
Honestly, I wonder if the team will be ever be good enough for some fans. I'm with Gavin. Sometimes the negativism in Sacramento gets tiring. Maybe we'll be happier when our supposedly crappy team moves somewhere else and they tear down Arco Arena. Some other city will be happier, too.
Sorry, I just get tired of it sometimes. Maybe I'm just having a bad day.
To answer your question, NO! This team will never be good enough for some fans. This is not just true of King's fans though. There will always be fans out there that just aren't happy unless they have something to complain about. Fortuneately for them, no matter how good a team is there is always something to nit pick about.
Well, lets take a small look. Here are six teams all from the west.
T Wolves Portland Seattle/OKl Warriors Clippers Kings
99/00- 50/32 59/23 45/37 19/63 15/67 44/38
00/01- 47/35 50/32 44/38 17/65 31/51 55/27
01/02- 50/32 49/33 45/37 21/61 39/43 61/21
02/03- 51/31 50/32 40/42 38/44 27/55 59/23
03/04- 58/24 41/41 37/45 37/45 28/54 55/27
04/05- 44/38 27/55 52/30 34/48 37/45 50/32
05/06- 33/49 21/61 35/47 34/48 47/35 44/38
06/07- 32/50 32/50 31/51 42/40 40/42 33/49
07/08- 22/60 41/41 20/62 48/34 23/59 38/44
08/09- 24/58 54/28 23/59 29/53 19/63 17/65
Strangely enough the Kings have more winning seasons during that 10 year period than any of the other teams. But if you look at the Timberwolves, Portland, Seattle and the Kings, you see a similar pattern. Portland has recovered sooner because they simply got rid of everyone and started completely over. They really didn't have a choice in the matter. They weren't called the Portland Jailblazers for nothing. The Warriors have been almost as pathetic as the Clippers durring that span. At least they were able to muster up two winning seasons against the Clips one.
Teams like the Spurs or the Mav's, Lakers etc have so far managed to stay in the fray because of having superstars on their team. To me, the most amazing team is Utah. The managed to lose two superstars with barely a hiccup. Gotta give credit where its due.
T Wolves Portland Seattle/OKl Warriors Clippers Kings
99/00- 50/32 59/23 45/37 19/63 15/67 44/38
00/01- 47/35 50/32 44/38 17/65 31/51 55/27
01/02- 50/32 49/33 45/37 21/61 39/43 61/21
02/03- 51/31 50/32 40/42 38/44 27/55 59/23
03/04- 58/24 41/41 37/45 37/45 28/54 55/27
04/05- 44/38 27/55 52/30 34/48 37/45 50/32
05/06- 33/49 21/61 35/47 34/48 47/35 44/38
06/07- 32/50 32/50 31/51 42/40 40/42 33/49
07/08- 22/60 41/41 20/62 48/34 23/59 38/44
08/09- 24/58 54/28 23/59 29/53 19/63 17/65
Strangely enough the Kings have more winning seasons during that 10 year period than any of the other teams. But if you look at the Timberwolves, Portland, Seattle and the Kings, you see a similar pattern. Portland has recovered sooner because they simply got rid of everyone and started completely over. They really didn't have a choice in the matter. They weren't called the Portland Jailblazers for nothing. The Warriors have been almost as pathetic as the Clippers durring that span. At least they were able to muster up two winning seasons against the Clips one.
Teams like the Spurs or the Mav's, Lakers etc have so far managed to stay in the fray because of having superstars on their team. To me, the most amazing team is Utah. The managed to lose two superstars with barely a hiccup. Gotta give credit where its due.
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Difference between the Kings and Twolves/Ex-Sonics is that I'd argue that the Kings have less a team or idea of a team yet than those other two. Durant, Westbrook and Harden create an offensive trio for an explosive team and a team identity. Jefferson, Love and Rubio/Flynn is ready for pick n roll basketball, ready to bang heads and pick you apart. The Kings on the other hand have drafted swingmen for years, but then take a two year break to draft two offensive big men, then return and draft a combo 2 and put him at point guard. There is no identity or concept there.
Whille Minny and OKC seem to have a consistent direction developing, the Kings still look unsure of what they're trying to do exactly.
Then again, changing coaches every year and having cheap management will do that to you. The Spurs, Mavs and Jazz all either have consistent coaching and management, or a owner who will pay to get it done.
Whille Minny and OKC seem to have a consistent direction developing, the Kings still look unsure of what they're trying to do exactly.
Then again, changing coaches every year and having cheap management will do that to you. The Spurs, Mavs and Jazz all either have consistent coaching and management, or a owner who will pay to get it done.
I'm not saying that criticism isn't called for after a 17 win season. I was answering a question that also mentioned how many Kings fans were still complaining back when the team was one of the best in the league. I have been around fans of many successful teams, and there are ALWAYS fans looking for something to complain about.
This isn't only true of professional sports, it is also true of college sports. I lived in SC for 10 years (the heart of ACC and SEC). I would constantly listen to their fans tear apart every weak aspect of the team when they were ranked #1 in the country.
This isn't only true of professional sports, it is also true of college sports. I lived in SC for 10 years (the heart of ACC and SEC). I would constantly listen to their fans tear apart every weak aspect of the team when they were ranked #1 in the country.
I appreciate your concerns. I suggest you just sit back and see how things play out. I disagree with you a little bit on Minny. They still don't have a center and their stuck with two bigs that play the same position. I doubt that Rubio ever plays a game for them. I actually think the Kings have more talent on thier roster than Minny does. But we'll see.
I also think its a little unfair to call the Kings management cheap. The Maloofs have been either right at the cap or over it every year. Their willingness to spend, in some ways is part of the problem. Had the Kings been a little more frugally minded, they might have been under the cap sooner.
I also think its a little unfair to call the Kings management cheap. The Maloofs have been either right at the cap or over it every year. Their willingness to spend, in some ways is part of the problem. Had the Kings been a little more frugally minded, they might have been under the cap sooner.
I actually like how these players mesh together. Hawes and JT and both play either high/low post positions (and play well with each other). Tyreke gives the Kings a much needed player that can create his own shots (and hopefully for his teammates). Martin's game works well with the ball coming out of the post or with a drive and kick player. Now if we can get one of out SFs to hit the 3 consistantly and play solid defense, we will have a starting lineup we can be exited about.
I think that Minnesota currently has a lot of problems. I like Flynn at PG (doubt Rubio will play for them). Who is going to play the 2 and 3 for them? I like Love and Jefferson, but they are both PFs. Jefferson is working at center, but would be better suited back at PF.
As for OKL, I like what they accomplished with Durant and Westbrook. It will be interesting to see how Hardin fits in with them (all 3 play best with the ball in their hands, especially Westbrook and Hardin). I worry about their PF and C positions. Don't get me wrong, I like Green, but he is a bit undersized for PF. And while Kristic played well at center the second half of last season, he is also not on the big side. I just think they will get bullied by bigger front courts.
I think that Minnesota currently has a lot of problems. I like Flynn at PG (doubt Rubio will play for them). Who is going to play the 2 and 3 for them? I like Love and Jefferson, but they are both PFs. Jefferson is working at center, but would be better suited back at PF.
As for OKL, I like what they accomplished with Durant and Westbrook. It will be interesting to see how Hardin fits in with them (all 3 play best with the ball in their hands, especially Westbrook and Hardin). I worry about their PF and C positions. Don't get me wrong, I like Green, but he is a bit undersized for PF. And while Kristic played well at center the second half of last season, he is also not on the big side. I just think they will get bullied by bigger front courts.
Excellent post ^. Look, I think we can only get better and I hope Tyreke is a stud and the team improves this year, but let's not sit here and pretend that we aren't the worst team in the entire NBA... because that's what we have become. Some will say it was inevatable because that's just part of rebuilding, but I can't agree. Some bad moves have been made and we have declined every year because of them.
Well, as far as OKC is concerned, we are not that far behind them. They basically have 1 year on us from when their record dropped into 30 win seasons. They do have a good core too, but they also have a slight luck factor on their side. Through no fault of their own, they got the #2 pick despite having the 5th worst record and got Durant. Replace Durant with good young player instead of a superstar caliber young player and their core would be no better than ours.
Minnesota also is probably slightly ahead of us, but was in the lottery sooner and also had an added advantage of being able to trade their superstar in his prime. We were still elite when Webber blew out his knee and his trade value was shot. Give the T-Wolves Garnett's expiring contract and take Al Jefferson, Telfair, and whatever draft picks they got off of their team and their prospects would actually look worse than ours. Rubio, Flynn, Brewer, Love, Carney.... no thank you.
I think Reynolds is getting a little bit of a bum rap here. I had the occasion to sit and have a few beers with him once. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. He was there, and I offered to buy him a beer. He's a very nice man who comes across as folksy. He has that country boy sense of humor and people judge him on just what they see on television.
I discovered by talking to him that he's very knowledgable and has probably forgotten more about basketball than I ever knew. He can be very forthright and has strong opinions. I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's a much different person, in person, than the image he presents on TV.
As far as him walking the company line. Well, he works for them. What do you expect him to do. If he has disagreements with the FO, I'm sure he'll keep it in house. Anyway, he's not the country bumkin a lot of you think he is..
I discovered by talking to him that he's very knowledgable and has probably forgotten more about basketball than I ever knew. He can be very forthright and has strong opinions. I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's a much different person, in person, than the image he presents on TV.
As far as him walking the company line. Well, he works for them. What do you expect him to do. If he has disagreements with the FO, I'm sure he'll keep it in house. Anyway, he's not the country bumkin a lot of you think he is..
If you read my original post, I was saying that even in our very best years, we had a ton of people around here that were bitching and moaning and complaining about how terrible some players were, and who we should get rid of and what a bad coach we have. That was even in a 61 game winning season.
Pau Gasol was a gift from Jerry West to his old team; no other team in the league would have gotten that trade. The Kings did none of those things because they had none of the players the other team would have wanted. The Lakers haven't rebuilt, they've retooled. There's a major difference between both teams, beginning with the obvious fact that Kevin Martin ain't Kobe Bryant.
So what changed for Kobe to win it all? I'm as big a Laker-hater as they come, but objectively I will have to admit that it wasn't that Kobe wasn't good enough to do it all himself, but he didn't have the attitude it had to lift his teammates to that level. It's almost impossible to win the NBA championship without a superstar, but the superstar by himself can't win unless he can get his team to buy into him and win it with him. I'm not totally convinced that Kobe actually changed his stripes, but at the very least least he was able to fake it well enough...plus he had help from the Magic, who couldn't quite get their hands off their throats.
If you're rebuilding, you don't get veteran players like VC or TMac (who have their own issues and baggage). Ditto for trading a youngster like Thompson for Amare. Portland has Brandon Roy, who may not be Kobe but is arguably better than anyone currently on the Kings team right now. You're comparing apples and oranges when you compare the Kings to Portland. Portland can compete right now. The Kings aren't going anywhere near the playoffs for at least the next two seasons, and that's not all on Petrie.
That's not Petrie's fault either. He's not the one who got rid of Adelman, he's not the one who initially brought in Musselman, Theus was a gamble worth trying and I think they would have had more luck working with him through the year than with Natt, but what do I know.
Gerald Wallace was a blunder made because of Anthony Peeler, and looking at the team back then, there wasn't anyone else who you could have exposed. Furthermore, I strongly believe that GW wouldn't have blossomed like he has if he stayed in Sacramento. Sometimes you need a kick in the butt to achieve your potential; this was his kick.
