Draft Evans then maybe in 1yr trade Martin

sactownfan · Jun 22, 2009

Im not the biggest fan of drafting Evans but if Rubio is off the board. I just cant justify picking a player like Flynn or Holiday with the #4 pick.

Evans is clearly the most talented player at #4 and theres a chance he could be a PG in this league.

I would draft him, then play him at PG for a year or so see how he comes along. If down the line it turns out he cant run the point then move him to the 2 and trade Martin for some quality assets, picks or players.

I look at it now like we cant pass on talent/value for need right now... the truth is we need a lot right now and if we pick a winner even if he is a SG then ultimately we improved the talent and value of this team. Then thru trades we can balance it all out later when we are looking to contend again.

really i think this draft boils down to this ....

1. We get Rubio- Everybodys happy! Martin stays, good fit.
2. We get Evans- Maybe Evans can play PG, but good chance Martin is traded in a year or two.
3. We get Flynn- Petrie plays it safe, nothing special, we all go home.
4. We either Jennings/Curry/Holiday- Petrie gambles, everyone here goes crazy! LOL!

ivan_fiba · Jun 22, 2009

im a down for #4 you should've made a poll

TONYTOUCH · Jun 22, 2009

If Rubio Is Off The Board, Then Harden Might Still Be On The Board. So If You Want To Go With The Best Player Available, He Might Have More Upside Than Evans. He Won't Be Able To Play Point For A Year Like Tyreke Can But Could Be A Better 2. So If You're Saying Take The Best Player Regardless Of Position And Ricky Is Gone...... Is Evans The Best Left......... Harden?...... Thabeet??

Vlade4GM · Jun 22, 2009

Even when looked at strictly as a SG I still like Evans more than Harden.

TTown Kings · Jun 22, 2009

I don't think Evans is a PG. I'm not opposed to drafting him if he's BPA, but do feel that if he's the pick then it's only a matter of time before KMart's on his way out. If we pick Evans I still think we'll be looking for a PG next year.

Kingster · Jun 22, 2009

sactownfan said:

Im not the biggest fan of drafting Evans but if Rubio is off the board. I just cant justify picking a player like Flynn or Holiday with the #4 pick.

Evans is clearly the most talented player at #4 and theres a chance he could be a PG in this league.

I would draft him, then play him at PG for a year or so see how he comes along. If down the line it turns out he cant run the point then move him to the 2 and trade Martin for some quality assets, picks or players.

I look at it now like we cant pass on talent/value for need right now... the truth is we need a lot right now and if we pick a winner even if he is a SG then ultimately we improved the talent and value of this team. Then thru trades we can balance it all out later when we are looking to contend again.

really i think this draft boils down to this ....

1. We get Rubio- Everybodys happy! Martin stays, good fit.
2. We get Evans- Maybe Evans can play PG, but good chance Martin is traded in a year or two.
3. We get Flynn- Petrie plays it safe, nothing special, we all go home.
4. We either Jennings/Curry/Holiday- Petrie gambles, everyone here goes crazy! LOL!

You're pretty darn close to the way I look at it. I'm agnostic on Rubio, but most want him, and Petrie probably does too. And everything else on 1-4 I agree with. I'm a little doubtful on the Martin trade thing though...

Kingster · Jun 22, 2009

TONYTOUCH said:

It's hard for me to see Harden not going #2 or #3. No pun intended.

Gary · Jun 22, 2009

sactownfan said:

What's with this trade Martin bullcrap? So we are 100% sure Evans is going to turn into a stud SG who averages 20+ppg and take Martin's spot eh?

It's not like Martin is old or anything.. He is part of the future.. I just love when people take guys that are proven and keep replacing them with young guys. You are never going to win when we are a farm team that develops guys for other teams. We draft someone then 3 years later we trade them as they are getting ready to peak.. Yah.. That's a way to build a winner. Keep trading everyone we develop for unproven guys.

Bricklayer · Jun 22, 2009

The title of this thread is possible. If Evans is exciting the front office at this point its hard to imagine it is because of his ability to create for others -- it would have to be because of his ability to create for himself. That's obviously a core SG skill, and one that Kevin doesn't actually excel at. Not that Evans is going to be a better scorer than Kevin, but that he is going to require less hand holding to get him his points -- throw him the ball, let him break the defense down.

Thing is, unless he is also able to break down the defense for the benefit of other guys, then a move to SG could be inevitable. And that can only happen if we use Kevin as an asset to plug another hole.

Peter_Gibbons · Jun 22, 2009

Evans is more of a 2 guard that can get 5 assists a game because he draws a lot of attention from the defense. Kind of like a Wade being about to get 6 asst a game.

Its barely Monday and the discussions and ideas are going off everywhere. The excitment is just so high right now. Lets hope it turns out great.

Bricklayer · Jun 22, 2009

Gary said:

I will mention this again -- Kevin is borderline useless to us as we stand right now. He's soft, he's not a leader, he basically plays a selfish game in that he he takes a ton of shots and creates none and forces everyone else to cover for his defense. He WOULD definitely have a role on the right sort of elite team...if they could slap him around into playing some defense. But for us, right now, he's the best player on a 17 win team. He barely has a positve +/-. And he's not THAT young anymore at 26. If its going to take us 4 years to get back to top status you are beginning to have to look at his mileage.

None of the above mean he HAS to be traded, but it does mean that "oh no what would we do without Kevin!?!" is a joke in our current position. IF we can find a way to quickly recover here, if we can somehow accelerate this process and bring in talent ready to win within the next couple of years, then Kevin can be part of that and is an asset as pure points. But if you are talking about drafting 18 yr olds or 19 yr olds, by the time they are ready to matter Kevin is going to be sliding toward the latter half of his career. And with his injury problems and reliance on quickness, it could be a quicker slide than for many.

I'm not down with just any and all of the trade Kevin suggestions as many of them exceed my stomach for risk taking with one of our few assets. But Kevin is a much more valuable asset for a good team already in position to contend that simply needs a bit of offensive punch and that can cover the weaknesses that come with it than he is to a really young and bad team. He has to be on the table along with everything else.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2009

I agree with a lot of what Brick posted and if both Rubio and Evans were on the board at three (and the Kings FO really was enamored with both) then I wouldn't be totally against dealing Martin to OKC for the 3rd pick so the team could draft both guys. OKC has some cap room but a bit of salary might have to be taken back to make it work. To me, that's a better situation for Martin, as a second or third option on a team with a real star/leader which Durant has the look of becoming.

I don't love Martin as a player and after his extention he went from bargain to overpriced, but I don't want to give him away. And I'm far from certain that SGs in this draft like Evans and Harden are going to be nearly as good as he is - especially Harden.

But I'm much more adamant that the team keep it's young bigs than Kevin.

Kingsroots · Jun 22, 2009

I agree with Brick. Most all Kings fans like Kevin because he is homegrown and has developed nicely from being a late 1st round pick. However, to say that he shouldn't be traded because Evans or whoever gets drafted isn't proven is rediculous. To be honest, Kevin is proven scoring wise but beyond that nothing else is proven, ie., defense, clutch, winning attitude, ball handling, etc.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2009

Kingsroots said:

It's not ridiculous, it's a legitimate fear. The Kings were on the other side of such a trade when the Warriors dealt Mitch Richmond for the rights to Billy Owens. I'm not saying Kevin is Mitch (though they share a couple unsettling similarities) but Billy Owens had a lot more hype than Evans does now and was an absolute bust.

Again, I'm not against trading Martin, but teams and fans seem to fall in love with draft picks every year and in a draft this weak that's a dangerous thing.

Kingsroots · Jun 22, 2009

No, i'm not in love with any of this years potential draft picks actually. But what I am saying is that i'm not in love with Kevin's game either and if Kevin can be dealt for the #2 or #3 pick plus another piece or some variation, you have to think about it. Kevin is not a sure thing either... On a championship contending team.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2009

Actually I think Kevin would be BEST on a championship team - one where he was the second or (even better) the third option. A very efficient scorer and opportunistic scorer would be a great piece to have.

But as the building block of a team? Not so much.

sactownfan · Jun 22, 2009

I wanna just set it straight in that I would not be ok with trading Kevin for any first round picks in this draft other than Griffen... and even then i'd have to think about it cause he still has to prove himself to some degree.

anyway if we could dump a few bad contracts, add a pick, and pick up a good young player. Then i'd say for the right deal we gotta trade Kevin.

also i'd pick Evans over Harden... Harden seems kinda outa shape and really disappointed in a lot of the big games...

=LarryLegend= · Jun 22, 2009

Gary said:

What's with this trade Martin bullcrap? So we are 100% sure Evans is going to turn into a stud SG who averages 20+ppg and take Martin's spot eh?

It's not like Martin is old or anything.. He is part of the future.. I just love when people take guys that are proven and keep replacing them with young guys. You are never going to win when we are a farm team that develops guys for other teams. We draft someone then 3 years later we trade them as they are getting ready to peak.. Yah.. That's a way to build a winner. Keep trading everyone we develop for unproven guys.

I agree, why trade a top 10 scorer???

Nighthawk1 · Jun 22, 2009

sactownfan said:

Harden is not out of shape, and I personally wouldn't mind haven't either player but I think Harden is the better of the two players without the ball in his hands.

I don't thinK Kmart will be traded in any event unless the correct package comes along in this draft... And I can't see that happening really unless OKC wants to play ball with us they have the only assets I'd personally be interested in the top 4... Wizards are also a decent trade partner with their assets and young bigs

sactownfan · Jun 22, 2009

Nighthawk1 said:

let me set it totally straight...

I say we go with Evans... try him a PG for a year or so and if it doesn't work out then trade Kevin... im not talking about trading Kevin right now

the draft is just so weak this year... the other team would have to take beno and Noc with Kevin and then i'd be down to trade him this year.

TTown Kings · Jun 22, 2009

=LarryLegend= said:

did you read Brick's post? It's pretty spot on. A top 10 scorer is great and all, but it'd be nice to have somebody that can also play d, create his own shot, be a leader, etc, etc. Not saying Kevin can't do these things, but he doesn't do any of them very well right now.

rainmaker · Jun 22, 2009

Evans is not a natural pg, and is at his best going 1 on 1. I am not in favor of drafting another sg and trying to force him to play the point. I am also not in favor of looking to unload Martin unless we clearly get back better talent in return. I want to see what Martin can do playing next to a PLAYMAKING PG for the first time in his career. Martin is best coming off screens and moving without the ball, so I would expect him to be that much more effective playing with a pg that can actually set him up.

I am not down on Evans, I think he will be a solid sg in the league. I just don't think he is a good fit for our team if you play him at the 2, and I would rather have a natural pg playing the one. There is also the fact that if you had Evans running the point, Martin life would not be any easier, and his stock might drop some more, meaning you won't get as much in return if you trade him.

If anyone really wants to trade Martin, we need a pg that will push the ball and get him easy baskets, inflating his numbers (25+ppg), which will lead to us getting more talent in return.

bajaden · Jun 22, 2009

rainmaker said:

Evans is not a natural pg, and is at his best going 1 on 1. I am not in favor of drafting another sg and trying to force him to play the point. I am also not in favor of looking to unload Martin unless we clearly get back better talent in return. I want to see what Martin can do playing next to a PLAYMAKING PG for the first time in his career. Martin is best coming off screens and moving without the ball, so I would expect him to be that much more effective playing with a pg that can actually set him up.

I am not down on Evans, I think he will be a solid sg in the league. I just don't think he is a good fit for our team if you play him at the 2, and I would rather have a natural pg playing the one. There is also the fact that if you had Evans running the point, Martin life would not be any easier, and his stock might drop some more, meaning you won't get as much in return if you trade him.

If anyone really wants to trade Martin, we need a pg that will push the ball and get him easy baskets, inflating his numbers (25+ppg), which will lead to us getting more talent in return.

For what its worth, Calipari, Evans coach, said he made a mistake by playing Evans out of position for the first half of the year. But when he moved him to point guard, thats when Evans and the team started to play well.

But of course, I know that most of you are all smarter than his coach.

Arby's Roast Beef · Jun 22, 2009

Since it seems more likely now that we're going to draft Evans at the #4 spot (per DraftExpress), it's time to maybe dissect what this really means for us.

I never was in favor of Evans--almost think in some aspects of his game, he's too talented/confident for his own good that he gets too out of control with certain aspects of his game. Because he's got good ballhandling skills and can break players off the dribble, he can create his own shot at will, so he really abuses this--he overdoes things and just runs into brick walls as well, a source for his turnovers. And his ball dominance exacerbates the issue. Those habits technically should be correctable, but oftentimes they just comprise that player's game for decades to come. Some might call this the Ricky Davis, Larry Hughes syndrome.

The unfortunate thing is that if he can reorient his approach to the game, the upside can truly be stellar--he's got a great body for a point guard, with stellar length and NBA-level athleticism, and he uses it too because he can really rebound, steal and block shots. Skillwise, everyone knows he has latent passing skills and has shown NBA level defensive ability. So everything potentially is there except the jumpshot--almost a very complete NBA player.

But the more reasonable scenario to expect from someone of his mentality, as shown in years past, is that he'll just continue to live on his talent level and be a very good scorer with some flashes of all-around game for the next decade or so, but he won't really make anyone win unless he's paired much with more disciplined players/coach. If and when that happens, and assuming that someone turns the light bulb on for him, he can really be a good player--his all-around game on both ends of the court is something that few players can even boast about. And he'll really fit a run-and-gun game, needless to say, and he'll really ratchet up stats in Don Nelson's system (which doesn't require great intelligence to play in, so it caters to him). But ultimately, I think he'll have a career trajectory of John Salmons--sort of like a put-your head down scorer who always had some passing ability, but never fully utilized it to even a decent extent.

If we do draft him, there are people here who said that Kevin might need to go--because we're drafting a 19 year old player, and by the time we become relevant Kevin's already past his prime. That's true--Evans might impress with some stats and contribute early on but in terms of winning games, not sure if he's going to help us there. It might be better off to capitalize on Kevin's value level right now and pry off younger players and high draft picks for the future, if we're truly to accelerate the rebuild into relevancy. And that might be difficult to do--letting go of Kevin and pinning part of our hopes on what I think is an real enigma (in terms of team projection) by drafting Evans. Another thing--if you're getting a point guard (albeit a pseudo PG) if the passing isn't totally a given, it would be better to expect some leadership ability. I don't think Evans' gameface allows him to express any sort of leadership ability, and if he chooses to go the way of jacking shots right away he'll have little primacy among his teammates, that's for sure. That's really another reason I might be turned off by him, even if we're technically getting another young highly potentialized athlete. And I've already gotten into his bad habits.

Gary · Jun 22, 2009

Bricklayer said:

I will mention this again -- Kevin is borderline useless to us as we stand right now. He's soft, he's not a leader, he basically plays a selfish game in that he he takes a ton of shots and creates none and forces everyone else to cover for his defense. He WOULD definitely have a role on the right sort of elite team...if they could slap him around into playing some defense. But for us, right now, he's the best player on a 17 win team. He barely has a positve +/-. And he's not THAT young anymore at 26. If its going to take us 4 years to get back to top status you are beginning to have to look at his mileage.

None of the above mean he HAS to be traded, but it does mean that "oh no what would we do without Kevin!?!" is a joke in our current position. IF we can find a way to quickly recover here, if we can somehow accelerate this process and bring in talent ready to win within the next couple of years, then Kevin can be part of that and is an asset as pure points. But if you are talking about drafting 18 yr olds or 19 yr olds, by the time they are ready to matter Kevin is going to be sliding toward the latter half of his career. And with his injury problems and reliance on quickness, it could be a quicker slide than for many.

I'm not down with just any and all of the trade Kevin suggestions as many of them exceed my stomach for risk taking with one of our few assets. But Kevin is a much more valuable asset for a good team already in position to contend that simply needs a bit of offensive punch and that can cover the weaknesses that come with it than he is to a really young and bad team. He has to be on the table along with everything else.

Totally disagree with pretty much the entire post. Sorry, but Kevin isn't Selfish. He's asked to shoot so he does. Every team needs a guy that can score like Martin. If the right deal came around I would trade Martin, but not for a bunch of young guys that everyone want to trade again for more young guys in 3 years.. We can't win unless we put together a core.. Enough of this trading everyone for nobody junk this team has been doing.

fxhsurjono · Jun 22, 2009

ok first of all. kmart is a top 10 scorer on the leagues worst team. second. he has to score 20+ppg because no one on the team can. third evans i think is going to be that pick that we shoulda woulda coulda picked but we didnt if we pass on him. kinda like arenas when we drafted gwallace instead.

i dont understand why you guys are knockin on evans, he can play the point as yu see in college, his team was better when he was at the 1. i think he's a rich mans rodney stucky, big pg, create his own shot, OWNs the dribble drive.
but i dont know we'll see. as for right now if rubio is off the board by the time #4 comes up, do doubt in my mind we should draft evans.

Nighthawk1 · Jun 22, 2009

I think his post is pretty spot on actually, I don't think Kevin is totally selfish though.. I think he believes he must be that guy and I think that hurts the team at times. Being a leader is more then just scoring points

Pangloss · Jun 22, 2009

Arby's Roast Beef said:

Both this post and your original on Evans are really good IMO. I appreciate the depth and breadth of analysis.

Nighthawk1 · Jun 22, 2009

Pangloss said:

It could be very likely we draft Evans, but I'm not so sure we keep him... I almost bet we trade with Memphis at this point

And I only say that because of the growing list that seem to not want to play in Memphis... Does this mean they won't draft them? No, but it seems silly from their pov to force the issue... If I were them I'd trade that pick and try to grab another lottery pick + assets or for veterans.
They honestly should unload some of their assets and picks for quality veteran players if they want to win at anytime, it seems once any they have realizes the situation they're in they bolt asap from Memphis. Not everyone can do what Portland does building in the draft - and it's working for them because they have players who want to stay there! I really think Memphis should consider this instead of grabbing more and more youth just to have them bolt... Trade the pick and pickup some real assets / vets!

sactownfan · Jun 22, 2009

Kevins way to talented to play as poorly as he does on defense. Its just pathetic! he clearly takes plays off on defense and that is disturbing...

He was a serious reason along with Beno for our teams inability to guard the 3pt shots from other teams! He isn't a leader! He is never going to be more than a one dimensional Odom type 3rd option. Odom does many different things well.

that said he is a great offensive player and an excellent shooter and also appears to be a good character guy even though he isn't a leader.

Kevin is one of the very few pieces we have that could rid us of our bad contracts, get us more future picks, along with a good player.

Draft Evans then maybe in 1yr trade Martin

sactownfan

Guest

G-League

Prospect

All-Star

Bench

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

All-Star

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

Starter

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

Super Moderator

G-League

Super Moderator

G-League

Super Moderator

sactownfan

Guest

Starter

Starter

sactownfan

Guest

Bench

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

Starter

All-Star

G-League

Starter

G-League

Starter

sactownfan

Guest