More hope...... maybe I shouldn't (Rubio rumor)

[bajaden]

Yeah, they wouldn't likely pick Rubio to keep him, but they can trade down with us and get something extra. So, OKC would be better trade partners than Memphis because we can whoever OKC would truly like to have. However if Memphis takes Rubio (which IMO is still the likely scenario) it will be much harder for us to work a deal because Thabeet seems to be their favorite alternative to Rubio and OKC likely snatches him up before our pick. I doubt they trade Rubio for Jordan Hill and some late picks, they may rather want the 4th as well as one our young bigs or future first round picks.

Then thats more than I would be willing to pay. If you look at past trades between teams in the top 6 or 7. I don't remember any team moving up a couple of picks giving up any core players. If Rubio is sitting there at 3 and their willing to deal, then I would offer them something like #4 plus our 31st and Greene. If they want our 23rd, then I take Greene and our 31st off the table. If they insist on Hawes or Thompson, I tell them to take a hike and I draft Jennings.

With the possibility of Rubio simply going back to Spain and playing out his contract, I don't think Oklahoma or Memphis is in any position to hold up anyone. I would think that if Rubio wants to pull out of the draft, then some kind of deal would have to be worked out prior to the pull out date. If he withdraws from the draft, then I guess we can assume that someone wasn't willing to deal. By the same token, if he stays in the draft, it may be a sign that a deal has been worked out.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Then thats more than I would be willing to pay. If you look at past trades between teams in the top 6 or 7. I don't remember any team moving up a couple of picks giving up any core players. If Rubio is sitting there at 3 and their willing to deal, then I would offer them something like #4 plus our 31st and Greene. If they want our 23rd, then I take Greene and our 31st off the table. If they insist on Hawes or Thompson, I tell them to take a hike and I draft Jennings.

With the possibility of Rubio simply going back to Spain and playing out his contract, I don't think Oklahoma or Memphis is in any position to hold up anyone. I would think that if Rubio wants to pull out of the draft, then some kind of deal would have to be worked out prior to the pull out date. If he withdraws from the draft, then I guess we can assume that someone wasn't willing to deal. By the same token, if he stays in the draft, it may be a sign that a deal has been worked out.

Well, it wouldn't cost as much if it were OKC, but if it were Memphis then it would probably cost more because the guy they may want more (Thabeet) probably won't be available at our spot. Also, I think Memphis may be more willing to keep Rubio than OKC would. If Rubio falls past 2, there is a real shot at us trading for him, but if he goes to Memphis I doubt a deal gets done unless Petrie and co. are desperate for him.

It's not really a hold up because we're not the only ones that are going to be calling them about Rubio, they'll have options if they decide to go that way.

 

[Aenadin]

what if we do trade JT 4th and 31st. and sign a free agent big like millsap or Lee?

would that be a great idea?

 

[GeraldWallace#3]

what if we do trade JT 4th and 31st. and sign a free agent big like millsap or Lee?

would that be a great idea?

Don't like that idea one bit. We trade a proven young big who still has a lot of developing left and two picks for a non proven player, dosn't sound like the smartest idea for me.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Then thats more than I would be willing to pay. If you look at past trades between teams in the top 6 or 7. I don't remember any team moving up a couple of picks giving up any core players. If Rubio is sitting there at 3 and their willing to deal, then I would offer them something like #4 plus our 31st and Greene. If they want our 23rd, then I take Greene and our 31st off the table. If they insist on Hawes or Thompson, I tell them to take a hike and I draft Jennings.

With the possibility of Rubio simply going back to Spain and playing out his contract, I don't think Oklahoma or Memphis is in any position to hold up anyone. I would think that if Rubio wants to pull out of the draft, then some kind of deal would have to be worked out prior to the pull out date. If he withdraws from the draft, then I guess we can assume that someone wasn't willing to deal. By the same token, if he stays in the draft, it may be a sign that a deal has been worked out.

What if you took the #4 out? JT and the #23 or 31 for the #2. Memphis gets a young big who is likely better than Hill and a later first round pick. We get Rubio and can take whoever else we want at 4.

 

[Aenadin]

What if you took the #4 out? JT and the #23 or 31 for the #2. Memphis gets a young big who is likely better than Hill and a later first round pick. We get Rubio and can take whoever else we want at 4.

yeah that seems reasonable... we can draft hill... or use the 4 to trade down with minessota for their two first round picks..

sure we create another whole by filling in another. but would you want to see another year of beno playing point? ive had enough of it...

 

[Bricklayer]

Trading JT for Rubio doesn't advance our cause unless Rubio is a big star. We waited a long time to get a young full sized PF, and there are many PGs in this draft. If Rubio is Nash, sure, you do it and don't look back. But if he's anything but, JT and Spencer should be #1 and #2 on the list of assets that we don't burn chasing after him. We have to set our feet here. Barring clear upgrade potential (Amare etc.), those two players are the young core you want to add to, not trade fodder.

 

[Aenadin]

donte is more expendable imo... if natt only played donte a lot he could have had a lot more trade value right now...


im not for trading jt btw.. just seeing what we can do.

 

[steelevt]

over and over i keep seeing people posting trade ideas to get rubio that include trading away JT. then right away, they get a response saying that its stupid (which is true). why would we trade away one of our core starters for rubio considering a) he isnt even a proven commodity and b) we would be filling a hole at pg in our starting 5 but making another by losing our starting pf. that is the train of thought i was thinking whenever i saw a trade idea involving JT or another "core" starter and was relieved that i was not the only one thinking it. but after reading a little article on sactown royalty i see another argument against it. i believe it might have mentioned in another thread but another point against trading any core starter to move up would be c) the value between 1 or 2 draft spots. we should not need to overpay just to move up a couple spots considering the info i read from the article i mentioned above:

In 1998, Antawn Jamison was chosen by the Toronto Raptors with the 4th pick of the draft. He was then traded for Vince Carter, who was taken 5th by the Golden State Warriors.

In 2006, Minnesota traded #6 pick Brandon Roy to Portland for #7 pick Randy Foye and $1 million.

Also in 2006, Chicago sent #2 pick LaMarcus Aldridge and a conditional 2nd round pick to Portland for Tyrus Thomas and the rights to Victor Khyrapa.

Last year, Minnesota sent #3 pick O.J. Mayo, Marko Jaric (3 yrs., $21 million) and Greg Buckner (3 yrs, $12 million, partially guaranteed) to Memphis for #5 pick Kevin Love, Mike Miller (2 yrs., $19 million), Brian Cardinal (2 yrs., $13 million) and Jason Collins (1 yr., $6 million).

Also last year, Indiana sent #11 pick Jerryd Bayless to Portland for #13 pick Brandon Rush, Jarrett Jack (1 yr. @ $2 million preceding a qualifying offer) and Josh McRoberts ($700k).

i think it is reasonable trading the 4th pick along with the 23 or 31 or donte to move up. id rather save KT to trade him closer to the deadline. i would love getting rubio, but adding JT, spencer or martin to the 4th to move up would be overpaying and just plain stupid.

 

[SacKings7]

^^Agreed. And not only that but we'd be trading big for small, which you generally just don't do. Unless of course, like someone mentioned, Rubio is a bonafide star

 

[Bricklayer]

over and over i keep seeing people posting trade ideas to get rubio that include trading away JT. then right away, they get a response saying that its stupid (which is true). why would we trade away one of our core starters for rubio considering a) he isnt even a proven commodity and b) we would be filling a hole at pg in our starting 5 but making another by losing our starting pf. that is the train of thought i was thinking whenever i saw a trade idea involving JT or another "core" starter and was relieved that i was not the only one thinking it. but after reading a little article on sactown royalty i see another argument against it. i believe it might have mentioned in another thread but another point against trading any core starter to move up would be c) the value between 1 or 2 draft spots. we should not need to overpay just to move up a couple spots considering the info i read from the article i mentioned above:

In 1998, Antawn Jamison was chosen by the Toronto Raptors with the 4th pick of the draft. He was then traded for Vince Carter, who was taken 5th by the Golden State Warriors.

In 2006, Minnesota traded #6 pick Brandon Roy to Portland for #7 pick Randy Foye and $1 million.

Also in 2006, Chicago sent #2 pick LaMarcus Aldridge and a conditional 2nd round pick to Portland for Tyrus Thomas and the rights to Victor Khyrapa.

Last year, Minnesota sent #3 pick O.J. Mayo, Marko Jaric (3 yrs., $21 million) and Greg Buckner (3 yrs, $12 million, partially guaranteed) to Memphis for #5 pick Kevin Love, Mike Miller (2 yrs., $19 million), Brian Cardinal (2 yrs., $13 million) and Jason Collins (1 yr., $6 million).

Also last year, Indiana sent #11 pick Jerryd Bayless to Portland for #13 pick Brandon Rush, Jarrett Jack (1 yr. @ $2 million preceding a qualifying offer) and Josh McRoberts ($700k).

i think it is reasonable trading the 4th pick along with the 23 or 31 or donte to move up. id rather save KT to trade him closer to the deadline. i would love getting rubio, but adding JT, spencer or martin to the 4th to move up would be overpaying and just plain stupid.

The problem is that this is not a normal draft -- there seems a pretty clear falloff between the top 3 and the rest, and guess where we got screwed into picking? Just on the wrong side of that cliff. Its as if we were picking 5 spots later in a normal draft. For any sort of cheap pcik swap, what you have to hope for is that somebody, Harden most likely, really catches the fancy of one of the teams ahead of us -- it goes without saying that not all of them are famous for their wonderful front offices. If that happens, then the cheap pick swap is a real possibility...if Geoff cooperates. But just going on current evidence, seems a pretty general consensus that there is a #1, two #2/#3s (Rubio/Thabeet) and then everbody else, so leaping that divide from everybody else to the actual top prospects will proabblky cost us something. Just not JT.

 

[Aenadin]

what ever the case lets just all wish that the likes of hasheem and jordan hill come with amazing combine results like 10ft wing spans and 38 inch verts with blinding speed

i still dont believe that this draft is as weak as the one where in kwame was drafted..

 

[Widowmaker2k]

Trading JT for Rubio doesn't advance our cause unless Rubio is a big star. We waited a long time to get a young full sized PF, and there are many PGs in this draft. If Rubio is Nash, sure, you do it and don't look back. But if he's anything but, JT and Spencer should be #1 and #2 on the list of assets that we don't burn chasing after him. We have to set our feet here. Barring clear upgrade potential (Amare etc.), those two players are the young core you want to add to, not trade fodder.

Exactly. I'm very high on Rubio, but a big part of that is because I think he would 'mesh' very well with JT and Hawes (talented offense-minded bigs). Without either one of those two, Rubio makes less sense. Every day since the Webber fiasco it seemed like we had a trade proposal to get us a legitimate PF, and now we finally have one (and he's 6'11", athletic, smart, and hard-working). You don't trade all that away for Rubio over Jennings. I would really really like for us to get Ricky, but Jennings is pretty good too (so is Evans), and if you're in our position, I think it's better to take a chance on a Jennings or Evans (who both have star potential), than to trade your young starting PF (who also has star potential) for a moderately more promising player at PG (he's more likely to be a star than Evans or Jennings, but his absolute ceiling is about the same as them, I'd say). Ideally, we'd be picking at #2 and be getting Rubio, but we're not, so we might as well shoot for the stars with Evans or Jennings, and not give up any of our young core in the process.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

1.) Blake Griffin
2.) Thabeet
3.) Harden
4.) Rubio

This is the order Draftexpress has as of today. It changed from a few days ago. Not sure why they made that adjustment.

 

[anafree]

1.) Blake Griffin
2.) Thabeet
3.) Harden
4.) Rubio

This is the order Draftexpress has as of today. It changed from a few days ago. Not sure why they made that adjustment.

It's very simple. Rubio will play next 2 years in Spain. Despite be chosen this year.

 

[GeraldWallace#3]

It's very simple. Rubio will play next 2 years in Spain. Despite be chosen this year.

Actually he said he would only CONSIDER going back if he wasn't drafted by the Kings or Clippers.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Actually he said he would only CONSIDER going back if he wasn't drafted by the Kings or Clippers.

Actually, he hasn't said anything.

 

[dj3ptspecialist44]

Exactly. I'm very high on Rubio, but a big part of that is because I think he would 'mesh' very well with JT and Hawes (talented offense-minded bigs). Without either one of those two, Rubio makes less sense. Every day since the Webber fiasco it seemed like we had a trade proposal to get us a legitimate PF, and now we finally have one (and he's 6'11", athletic, smart, and hard-working). You don't trade all that away for Rubio over Jennings. I would really really like for us to get Ricky, but Jennings is pretty good too (so is Evans), and if you're in our position, I think it's better to take a chance on a Jennings or Evans (who both have star potential), than to trade your young starting PF (who also has star potential) for a moderately more promising player at PG (he's more likely to be a star than Evans or Jennings, but his absolute ceiling is about the same as them, I'd say). Ideally, we'd be picking at #2 and be getting Rubio, but we're not, so we might as well shoot for the stars with Evans or Jennings, and not give up any of our young core in the process.

Thank you that has been my point on so many occasions I absolutely am excited about the possibility of Rubio on our team for the buzz and his talent, but i'm not trading Hawes Thompson and even Donte for him. Those 3 players are not done developing and when they do we will be scary. I personally think an Evans or a Jennings works as well if not better than a Rubio does because of their athleticism quickness and for evans size. If we draft Evans their will be matchup problems all over the floor for opposing teams. How many teams have 6 ft 5 point guards? Exactly for Jennings how many people have blazing quick PG's like him. You can name them on one hand. So the way I see it we are actually sitting pretty. Rubio could fall to us or we take Evans or Jennings. Not as bad as we once thought of course all of us wanted Griffin, but all of us have conceeded that.

 

[Smills91]

It's very simple. Rubio will play next 2 years in Spain. Despite be chosen this year.

And I'd be okay waiting a year or two for him to arrive, similar to the Peja situation.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Thank you that has been my point on so many occasions I absolutely am excited about the possibility of Rubio on our team for the buzz and his talent, but i'm not trading Hawes Thompson and even Donte for him. Those 3 players are not done developing and when they do we will be scary. I personally think an Evans or a Jennings works as well if not better than a Rubio does because of their athleticism quickness and for evans size. If we draft Evans their will be matchup problems all over the floor for opposing teams. How many teams have 6 ft 5 point guards? Exactly for Jennings how many people have blazing quick PG's like him. You can name them on one hand. So the way I see it we are actually sitting pretty. Rubio could fall to us or we take Evans or Jennings. Not as bad as we once thought of course all of us wanted Griffin, but all of us have conceeded that.

I'd definitely trade Greene for Rubio, I'm not that high on Greene. Thompson or Hawes? No.

As far as the difference in prospects in Rubio and Jennings/Evans, it's fairly signficant and it's worth trading certain pieces for. Jennings and Evans have nice upside, but so does Rubio, and Rubio is far more likely to achieve it IMO.

 

[dj3ptspecialist44]

I'd definitely trade Greene for Rubio, I'm not that high on Greene. Thompson or Hawes? No.

As far as the difference in prospects in Rubio and Jennings/Evans, it's fairly signficant and it's worth trading certain pieces for. Jennings and Evans have nice upside, but so does Rubio, and Rubio is far more likely to achieve it IMO.

What someone else proposed though Vlade is Donte the 4 and 23 at one time I don't know if it was in this post or another, but no way in hell do I do that. I like Donte so i'm a little biased their, but I have to somewhat argue about the Jenings and Evans upside to Rubio. Some will scream at me, but none of us have seen Rubio or Jennings play enough. I have to be fair to add Jennings since he's in the Euro League. We have seen Evans some what dominate NCAA opponents. I love Rubio really want to see him here, but I think the gap between him Evans and Jennings are closer than what people think. Both him and Evans don't have spectacular shots that makes them equal there. I give Rubio the obvious edge in passing. Evans gets the offensive edge for driving ability and size. Jennings is the fastest of the group but lacks strength. His shot is better than Evans I feel and his passing his on par with Rubio. I'm glad i'm not a GM, because obviously if Rubio falls it's an easy pick. If he doesn't that's a hard decision to make between Jennings and Evans. I'd be happy with either one of the three.

 

[Vlade4GM]

What someone else proposed though Vlade is Donte the 4 and 23 at one time I don't know if it was in this post or another, but no way in hell do I do that. I like Donte so i'm a little biased their, but I have to somewhat argue about the Jenings and Evans upside to Rubio. Some will scream at me, but none of us have seen Rubio or Jennings play enough. I have to be fair to add Jennings since he's in the Euro League. We have seen Evans some what dominate NCAA opponents. I love Rubio really want to see him here, but I think the gap between him Evans and Jennings are closer than what people think. Both him and Evans don't have spectacular shots that makes them equal there. I give Rubio the obvious edge in passing. Evans gets the offensive edge for driving ability and size. Jennings is the fastest of the group but lacks strength. His shot is better than Evans I feel and his passing his on par with Rubio. I'm glad i'm not a GM, because obviously if Rubio falls it's an easy pick. If he doesn't that's a hard decision to make between Jennings and Evans. I'd be happy with either one of the three.

Jennings and Evans are huge risks though in that their games are so raw. They don't even come close to having the IQ, vision, maturity, and decision making that Rubio has, and he's younger than them. It would be a tough deal to make, but ultimately I think I would make it in order to not have to take on such risks with Jennings or Evans.

 

[Bricklayer]

Not the 23 as well. Well..at least not unless you are a Rubio true believer. We need all of those picks, every shot at young talent we can get our hand son. And we need it now. The situation really is pretty desperate and its the first time in...20 years? that we've had multiple first round picks, let alone the #31.

 

[dj3ptspecialist44]

Jennings and Evans are huge risks though in that their games are so raw. They don't even come close to having the IQ, vision, maturity, and decision making that Rubio has, and he's younger than them. It would be a tough deal to make, but ultimately I think I would make it in order to not have to take on such risks with Jennings or Evans.

I think we could go back and forth all day making points about risks for all players. I think there's definitely more risks possibly with Rubio because we don't know A if mentally he's prepared for the rigors of an 82 game NBA season. B we don't know if athletically he can cut it in the NBA in a fast paced style game. C we don't know if he's strong enough to play the game. The list can go on add to the fact that he is from Europe and we haven't seen him compete against some of the great talent in the US and you have just as many questions as you would with Jennings and Evans. At least Jennings played in America before even if it was at the highschool level. Evans i'm sorry he's better than what people are giving him credit for if he developed a shot he could be D. Wade scary I see that as his potential call me crazy or whatever but he has that potential. I don't think we could go wrong with any of the players mind you.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Not the 23 as well. Well..at least not unless you are a Rubio true believer. We need all of those picks, every shot at young talent we can get our hand son. And we need it now. The situation really is pretty desperate and its the first time in...20 years? that we've had multiple first round picks, let alone the #31.

Yes, we do need a quantity of talent as well, but it may all be moot if we don't succeed with our first pick. A lot depends on it working out.

 

[dj3ptspecialist44]

Not the 23 as well. Well..at least not unless you are a Rubio true believer. We need all of those picks, every shot at young talent we can get our hand son. And we need it now. The situation really is pretty desperate and its the first time in...20 years? that we've had multiple first round picks, let alone the #31.

Totally agree with you I think that people are quick to throw away our picks for one player when we have so many glaring needs we'd be better off taking a Jennings or an Evans if Rubio doesn't fall and building on what we already have on our team which has a lot of good young talent. I think if you add in key players through this draft like an Ellington Williams and a big like Gibson or Hansbrough at 31 we'd be solid next year.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think we could go back and forth all day making points about risks for all players. I think there's definitely more risks possibly with Rubio because we don't know A if mentally he's prepared for the rigors of an 82 game NBA season. B we don't know if athletically he can cut it in the NBA in a fast paced style game. C we don't know if he's strong enough to play the game. The list can go on add to the fact that he is from Europe and we haven't seen him compete against some of the great talent in the US and you have just as many questions as you would with Jennings and Evans. At least Jennings played in America before even if it was at the highschool level. Evans i'm sorry he's better than what people are giving him credit for if he developed a shot he could be D. Wade scary I see that as his potential call me crazy or whatever but he has that potential. I don't think we could go wrong with any of the players mind you.

I think some of the examples you gave are unfounded and stretching it. Not only can he succeed in a fast paced game, that's where he is most comfortable. Nash isn't a speed demon or has much explosiveness but he's at home in an up tempo offense. He has to get used to the NBA game, but there really isn't any reason to think why he won't adjust, his game fits the ball dominant PG style that the NBA incorporates. Whether he can stand 82 games, you can easily say the same thing for any player coming into the NBA, because no other professional schedule really mirrors it, including HS and the NCAA. Also, Rubio plays in the ACB, Euroleague, and international tournaments, basketball is already his full-time career. I really don't think playing HS bball in the US prepares you for the NBA better than what Rubio has experienced by the age of 18, it's not even remotely close.

As far as Evans goes, I do think he is a bit underrated (especially his passing), but I think he has bigger IQ/decision making/playmaking question marks than Jennings does. So, he's not really just a jump shot away from being a Wade type player (he can attack the basket well but he's not that strong/explosive), but I have to admit it is a distinct possibility he can end up being an impact player. He definitely has good size, length, and athleticism going for him.

I'm not trying to challenge that Jennings and Evans' upsides are very good, but Rubio's bust potential IMO is a lot lower than those two and that's my main point.

For the record though, I wouldn't be too upset with ending up with either Jennings or Evans considering that we dropped 3 spots.

 

[bloom]

If both the Thunder and the Grizzlies take Rubio’s threat seriously, I think it would be that much easier to nab him than giving away everybody on our team. No way should we even think about giving away Spencer or Jason. Our #4th and #31st should be the only thing we give away, unless they want the 4th and some cash.

I hope Geoff can pull it off. I would love to see Ricky in our uniform.

Not the 23 as well. Well..at least not unless you are a Rubio true believer. We need all of those picks, every shot at young talent we can get our hand son. And we need it now. The situation really is pretty desperate and its the first time in...20 years? that we've had multiple first round picks, let alone the #31.

Speaking of multiple picks, does anybody think that Geoff Petrie and the Maloofs will take a risk and buy some picks this year? It seems that there’s several teams that are willing to sell their picks – I’ve heard (doesn’t mean it’s true) that the Wizards might want to sell their 5th pick. Also Portland has 5 picks and they might want to sell them off.

 

[Kings Faithful]

If both the Thunder and the Grizzlies take Rubio’s threat seriously, I think it would be that much easier to nab him than giving away everybody on our team. No way should we even think about giving away Spencer or Jason. Our #4th and #31st should be the only thing we give away, unless they want the 4th and some cash.

I hope Geoff can pull it off. I would love to see Ricky in our uniform.



Speaking of multiple picks, does anybody think that Geoff Petrie and the Maloofs will take a risk and buy some picks this year? It seems that there’s several teams that are willing to sell their picks – I’ve heard (doesn’t mean it’s true) that the Wizards might want to sell their 5th pick. Also Portland has 5 picks and they might want to sell them off.

How awesome would it be to have like 8 picks in this coming draft? We would almost surely get at least 2 or 3 quality players.

 

[bajaden]

If both the Thunder and the Grizzlies take Rubio’s threat seriously, I think it would be that much easier to nab him than giving away everybody on our team. No way should we even think about giving away Spencer or Jason. Our #4th and #31st should be the only thing we give away, unless they want the 4th and some cash.

I hope Geoff can pull it off. I would love to see Ricky in our uniform.



Speaking of multiple picks, does anybody think that Geoff Petrie and the Maloofs will take a risk and buy some picks this year? It seems that there’s several teams that are willing to sell their picks – I’ve heard (doesn’t mean it’s true) that the Wizards might want to sell their 5th pick. Also Portland has 5 picks and they might want to sell them off.

I think it should be noted that four of Portlands picks are second round picks. One of which is #32 right behind ours. Thats the one I would be interested in.