and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
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My particular interest in this topic, isn't about inflating Thompson's value, its about, how some feel the need to deflate his value in order to make a point. Wishing for him to become an all star isn't that far fetched. West is an all star, and I doubt many thought he would become one when he was drafted. Now wishing for him to become a superstar or a franchise player, is another matter completely.
Thompson is 6'11" tall. He's a good athlete and has a higher skill level than Malone had when he came into the league. He also appears to be dedicated to becoming as good as he can be. NO! I'm not saying he's going to become the next Karl Malone. I'am saying that what separates one player from another sometimes, is whats between their ears.
I hate to keep bringing up Larry Bird or McHale, but neither were exceptional athlete's. In Birds case, the knock on him was that he wasn't very athletic. And yet both are HOF'ers. Why? High skill level? Yes, of course, but both had the desire to be great. Both continuiously worked on their games. Based on todays so called standard of athleticism, one could say that they overacheived.
I don't want this to sound like I believe that Thompson is going to be a HOF'er. Because in all likelyhood he won't. He may become no more than a good blue collar PF in the league. But, I don't know. And for fans to hope for more is natural, and adds more excitement to the process.
Thompson is 6'11" tall. He's a good athlete and has a higher skill level than Malone had when he came into the league. He also appears to be dedicated to becoming as good as he can be. NO! I'm not saying he's going to become the next Karl Malone. I'am saying that what separates one player from another sometimes, is whats between their ears.
I hate to keep bringing up Larry Bird or McHale, but neither were exceptional athlete's. In Birds case, the knock on him was that he wasn't very athletic. And yet both are HOF'ers. Why? High skill level? Yes, of course, but both had the desire to be great. Both continuiously worked on their games. Based on todays so called standard of athleticism, one could say that they overacheived.
I don't want this to sound like I believe that Thompson is going to be a HOF'er. Because in all likelyhood he won't. He may become no more than a good blue collar PF in the league. But, I don't know. And for fans to hope for more is natural, and adds more excitement to the process.
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I agree with you on the fact that JT isn't great at any one thing. But he has shown improvement. I think with a better head coach and a more stable environment, he will improve at a faster rate. I just think you can't jump to conclusions about what a players ceiling will be after his rookie year. As for if JT will be an allstart caliber talent, who knows? We have to wait and see. But I think he will be a damn good starting pf for many years. IMO Hawes is more likely to become an allstar, because he is not only very young, but is the best all-around player we have, and the most skilled.
Griffin and rubio hands down are the top 2 picks in the draft. They are obviously very talented players. But they will have a lot of pressure on them and they will have a lot to prove. Can they become a #2 or #3 option on a championship caliber team? I think so , but again we have to wait and see.
After reading over your post again, I'm a little confused as to what your opinion is versus everyone else's. I thought I was commenting on your opinion, but you said a couple of times "the perception" of these players. So I don't know if this is your opinion or you're talking about everyone else's opinion.
Griffin and rubio hands down are the top 2 picks in the draft. They are obviously very talented players. But they will have a lot of pressure on them and they will have a lot to prove. Can they become a #2 or #3 option on a championship caliber team? I think so , but again we have to wait and see.
After reading over your post again, I'm a little confused as to what your opinion is versus everyone else's. I thought I was commenting on your opinion, but you said a couple of times "the perception" of these players. So I don't know if this is your opinion or you're talking about everyone else's opinion.
OK. Then I misunderstood you. I agree that JT isn't of equal value to Griffin or Rubio, at least not by himself. If we got the 3 or 4 pick, and traded JT for Rubio or Griffin straight up, it would be an unbelievable steal. No chance of that happening. Now if we packaged JT with another pick or a guy like Noc or Garcia who have some value, it might net us one of the top 2 picks.
I don't want to deflate Jason Thompson, just take a realistic view of his ability and future. I hope he's an all-star too I just don't think its very likely. Like a 5% chance maybe. David West is a good example of a guy who worked hard got better but also HUGELY benefited from playing with the best PG in the game. Seriously look at West's stats before and after Paul got there in 05. If we draft Rubio, he's that good, and JT ends up in the all-star game I will be just as excited as anyone else.
But this veered off from the idea that JT is worth the #2 pick. Sorry, but he's just not. (Though here's another situation I'd LOVE to be wrong)That's inflating his value.
But this veered off from the idea that JT is worth the #2 pick. Sorry, but he's just not. (Though here's another situation I'd LOVE to be wrong)That's inflating his value.
And thats fine but when some posters come out with statements such as we shoudl trade JT for Amare because in 2 years time he will be better than Amare is now.....well thats just talking smack.
The fans are notorious for overvaluing their youngsters. Peja, Martin, Cisco, Hawes and now JT.
You mention David West but he is made the player he is today because of the PG he has on his team. Will he be an all-star if he played for the Kings and with Beno running the show?
Now the best we can hope for is for JT to develop into the David West level player. Thats the best case scenario and people wouldn't trade that for perennial all-star?! C'mon, this goes both ways.
The fans are notorious for overvaluing their youngsters. Peja, Martin, Cisco, Hawes and now JT.
You mention David West but he is made the player he is today because of the PG he has on his team. Will he be an all-star if he played for the Kings and with Beno running the show?
Now the best we can hope for is for JT to develop into the David West level player. Thats the best case scenario and people wouldn't trade that for perennial all-star?! C'mon, this goes both ways.
To be honest, I don't care if he's worth the 1st or 2nd pick in this years draft, because I don't want to trade him. I want a little stablity on this team and the only way to aquire that is by settling on a nucleus of young players, hopefully good ones, and let them play together. I do find some irony in the fact that most people want to descredit this draft as being weak with no sure things in it, but suddenly the first two picks are of great value. By the way, I'm not one of those that believes this to be a weak draft.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought the best case senario was for Thompson to be a West level player. I merely used West as an example of a player becoming an allstar when he probably wasn't expected to be. Personally, I think he can be better than West. He's bigger than West, and personality wise, I think he's more aggressive than West. By your own addmission, Thompson would have been better this year if he had a comparable pt guard on his team. How good will Amare be without Nash? How good would Malone have been without Stockton? How good would the Lakers have been without Magic?
And the answer is! Probably not as good. Lets just hope that Thompson, and the rest of the team are lucky enough to eventually have an upper tier point guard as a teammate. Which is why I'm leaning toward Rubio with our pick, even if its the first pick.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought the best case senario was for Thompson to be a West level player. I merely used West as an example of a player becoming an allstar when he probably wasn't expected to be. Personally, I think he can be better than West. He's bigger than West, and personality wise, I think he's more aggressive than West. By your own addmission, Thompson would have been better this year if he had a comparable pt guard on his team. How good will Amare be without Nash? How good would Malone have been without Stockton? How good would the Lakers have been without Magic?
And the answer is! Probably not as good. Lets just hope that Thompson, and the rest of the team are lucky enough to eventually have an upper tier point guard as a teammate. Which is why I'm leaning toward Rubio with our pick, even if its the first pick.
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http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi...urces_uks_patterson_will_withdraw_from_draft/
They're saying that Patrick Patterson is reportedly going back to school.
They're saying that Patrick Patterson is reportedly going back to school.
Who here thinks we should go all out and draft 3 guards with our first 3 picks 
If you look at it we could get these three players...
Rubio, Holiday, Calathes. Heck.. One of them should be a decent NBA player..
OK Joking.. But I would totally tke a chance on Holiday if he were there at the Houston pick, and Calathes at the 2nd round pick.
OR.... What if we traded the 2nd rounder and Houston's pick for #12-#15 and drafted Lawson along with Rubio? At least our PG situation would be solved.
If you look at it we could get these three players...
Rubio, Holiday, Calathes. Heck.. One of them should be a decent NBA player..
OK Joking.. But I would totally tke a chance on Holiday if he were there at the Houston pick, and Calathes at the 2nd round pick.
OR.... What if we traded the 2nd rounder and Houston's pick for #12-#15 and drafted Lawson along with Rubio?
At least our PG situation would be solved.
Who here thinks we should go all out and draft 3 guards with our first 3 picks
If you look at it we could get these three players...
Rubio, Holiday, Calathes. Heck.. One of them should be a decent NBA player..
OK Joking.. But I would totally tke a chance on Holiday if he were there at the Houston pick, and Calathes at the 2nd round pick.
OR.... What if we traded the 2nd rounder and Houston's pick for #12-#15 and drafted Lawson along with Rubio? At least our PG situation would be solved.
If you look at it we could get these three players...
Rubio, Holiday, Calathes. Heck.. One of them should be a decent NBA player..
OK Joking.. But I would totally tke a chance on Holiday if he were there at the Houston pick, and Calathes at the 2nd round pick.
OR.... What if we traded the 2nd rounder and Houston's pick for #12-#15 and drafted Lawson along with Rubio?
At least our PG situation would be solved.
I was kind of joking with that last one.. Of course I take Rubio #2. Draft Griffin #1 and trade with the #2 team for Rubio. So it's Rubio all the way imo.
With Houston's pick the Kings could choose between a whole mess of players that might fall like Holiday, Mullens, Daye, Collison, Lawal, or whoever.
With Houston's pick the Kings could choose between a whole mess of players that might fall like Holiday, Mullens, Daye, Collison, Lawal, or whoever.
Here's what I want:
If we get pick 1: Blake Griffin (trade down for Rubio if there is a very good deal in place)
If we get pick 2: Rubio
If we get pick 3:Rubio if he is there, try and trade up or down for a good deal, and if all that isn't possible, then Jennings
If we get pick 4: Jennings
pick 23: Ordered from most want to least want: Flynn, Lawson, Teague, Maynor, Holiday, Clark, Blair, T.Williams, Mullens, Collison
pick 31: Collison, Mills, T. Williams
If we get pick 1: Blake Griffin (trade down for Rubio if there is a very good deal in place)
If we get pick 2: Rubio
If we get pick 3:Rubio if he is there, try and trade up or down for a good deal, and if all that isn't possible, then Jennings
If we get pick 4: Jennings
pick 23: Ordered from most want to least want: Flynn, Lawson, Teague, Maynor, Holiday, Clark, Blair, T.Williams, Mullens, Collison
pick 31: Collison, Mills, T. Williams
If we end up number four, I'm inclined to go with Evans. I just think that he has the most upside and could make the biggest impact after Griffin and Rubio. I would have said Thabeet if he were still there, which I doubt, but if the team is headed toward playing the Princeton offense, I just don't see how Thabeet fits into that.
I don't know. To me Jennings has better raw skills and you can't deny talent just because you want to run the Princeton offense. It is much more important to get great players and then build around them with an offense that fits their style and role players that will help fill weaknesses. I also have questions about where Evans would fit into an offense. Would he be a 1 or a 2 in the pros?
How did Pollard fit into the Princeton?
But more notably, did I miss something with this Princeton kick again? We could be in the last days of Geoff's reign here. If we hire Jordan he will run some Princeton, but even he, for all his faults, found ways to platoon Haywood and Etan Thomas as a center duo. There is room for 1 Thabeet type.
But more notably, did I miss something with this Princeton kick again? We could be in the last days of Geoff's reign here. If we hire Jordan he will run some Princeton, but even he, for all his faults, found ways to platoon Haywood and Etan Thomas as a center duo. There is room for 1 Thabeet type.
I wasn't trying to rain on you parade. I know your on the Thabeet bandwagon, and I'm pondering whether I should buy a ticket or not. I didn't say that he couldn't fit in. You could just switch Thabeet to the low post and put either Thompson or Hawes in the high post. Thompson is a pretty good passer. People forget that he started out as a pt guard back when he was little.
It isn't about what I think, its about what Petrie thinks. He's inclined to go with players that have certain skills, probably even more so with such a high pick. Personally, at number four, I'd probably go with Thabeet. I think he's a risk and a big gamble, but if the gamble pays off, suddenly we have an identity. If we end up with him, once again I would remind people to be patient. This kid is raw and is going to take time.
It isn't about what I think, its about what Petrie thinks. He's inclined to go with players that have certain skills, probably even more so with such a high pick. Personally, at number four, I'd probably go with Thabeet. I think he's a risk and a big gamble, but if the gamble pays off, suddenly we have an identity. If we end up with him, once again I would remind people to be patient. This kid is raw and is going to take time.
Thabeet would be very helpful, but right now we need a chance at a star. The truth is that Thabeet just wouldn't be able to help turn around the franchise too much. We need the star piece before we get a shotblocking defensive presence and when we already have a very young center, Jennings or another player would probably be the better choice.
All I've seen of Jennings is Youtube and parts of two games. In the games I watched he didn't get much playing time. So based on what I personally saw, I have no opinion, other than he's very quick. I saw nothing out of the ordinary in passing skills or shooting skills in the limited minutes I watched. They don't show mistakes on youtube, just flatering highlights. Fun to watch, but not something I would base an opinion on.
Evans on the other hand, I saw play several times. He's also very quick. As for whether he's a 1 or a 2, I believe he's a 1. I thought he played his best ball this past season when he was moved from the 2 to the 1. As a matter of fact, thats when the team started playing well. He definitely has some flaws to his game. He's prone to take bad shots and forget about defense at times. His shooting percentage would go up if he improves his decision making. He's a pretty good shooter when he's set and doesn't have a hand in his face. He's a good finisher, but doesn't drive to the basket enough, which is a crime for someone as athletic and quick as he is. I think he has good court vision and good pt guard instincts. He's just raw and needs to really work on his game. But I think he's one of those guys that can bust out and be a great player.
Evans on the other hand, I saw play several times. He's also very quick. As for whether he's a 1 or a 2, I believe he's a 1. I thought he played his best ball this past season when he was moved from the 2 to the 1. As a matter of fact, thats when the team started playing well. He definitely has some flaws to his game. He's prone to take bad shots and forget about defense at times. His shooting percentage would go up if he improves his decision making. He's a pretty good shooter when he's set and doesn't have a hand in his face. He's a good finisher, but doesn't drive to the basket enough, which is a crime for someone as athletic and quick as he is. I think he has good court vision and good pt guard instincts. He's just raw and needs to really work on his game. But I think he's one of those guys that can bust out and be a great player.
I put Evans definitely ahead of Thabeet and I wouldn't really be horribly mad if we got Evans, but I see a lot of star potential in Jennings, but he could also be a bust. Evans is probably a less risky pick and will likely be at least a decent scorer. I don't know if he will develop into a well rounded point guard though.
What Geoff is interested in presumably hasn't changed, nor have his Princeton urges. If neither absolutely excluded Thabeet a month ago (and they may have, who knows), neither suddenly does today.
It is kind of a test of just how much Geoff's acumen has faded how he's going to try to fill that 3rd big spot. Everyone and their mother knows it has to be a big defensive player, and Geoff did once too when it was Pollard behind Webb/Vlade. But its not clear whether he still has the acumen of your mother, so it will be interesting. He stuck with Brad Miller forever, tried surrounding him with Shareef, KT, Darius Songaila and Mikki Moore, and in the process managed to put together the worst defensive frontcourt in the NBA. There is reason to question whether he still remembers how critical controlling the middle is to winning. But he did once, and the Geoff circa 2000 would not have considered Thabeet an impossibility anymore than he did a Pollard or Keon. It is true none of those players are Princeton players. But once upon a time we ran the system but still understood its inherent weaknesses and made room for players who did not truly fit the mold if they could bring us things the core Princeton guys could not.
It is kind of a test of just how much Geoff's acumen has faded how he's going to try to fill that 3rd big spot. Everyone and their mother knows it has to be a big defensive player, and Geoff did once too when it was Pollard behind Webb/Vlade. But its not clear whether he still has the acumen of your mother, so it will be interesting. He stuck with Brad Miller forever, tried surrounding him with Shareef, KT, Darius Songaila and Mikki Moore, and in the process managed to put together the worst defensive frontcourt in the NBA. There is reason to question whether he still remembers how critical controlling the middle is to winning. But he did once, and the Geoff circa 2000 would not have considered Thabeet an impossibility anymore than he did a Pollard or Keon. It is true none of those players are Princeton players. But once upon a time we ran the system but still understood its inherent weaknesses and made room for players who did not truly fit the mold if they could bring us things the core Princeton guys could not.
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By the way, just in case we get the first pick, here's a comment from Chad Ford in a Q & A session from ESPN.com....
Thomas (Memphis, TN): How legit is Blake Griffin as a #1 pick in the NBA??
Chad Ford: I just spent the day with him in San Francisco on Monday. All I can say is wow. The physical tools are amazing and the workout he goes through everyday is the most grueling I've ever seen. Griffin looks like he's training to be a Navy SEAL. However, what was really impressive was the basketball part with former Spurs head coach Bob Hill. He's much more skilled offensively than you think. Excellent ball handler and nice stroke with some three point range. And he's a nice, grounded kid with a very cool family. I was super impressed.
Thomas (Memphis, TN): How legit is Blake Griffin as a #1 pick in the NBA??
By the way, just in case we get the first pick, here's a comment from Chad Ford in a Q & A session from ESPN.com....
Thomas (Memphis, TN): How legit is Blake Griffin as a #1 pick in the NBA??
Chad Ford: I just spent the day with him in San Francisco on Monday. All I can say is wow. The physical tools are amazing and the workout he goes through everyday is the most grueling I've ever seen. Griffin looks like he's training to be a Navy SEAL. However, what was really impressive was the basketball part with former Spurs head coach Bob Hill. He's much more skilled offensively than you think. Excellent ball handler and nice stroke with some three point range. And he's a nice, grounded kid with a very cool family. I was super impressed.
Thomas (Memphis, TN): How legit is Blake Griffin as a #1 pick in the NBA??