and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
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It will be a close call, Griffin would be so sick if he can learn to play the 3, thats not too much of a long shot either. Honestly I dont see the Kings keeping him if we do draft him, so many teams will want him, we can trade for a Rookie from last year we really wanted. a poind guard + a PF
Al Horford is a beast, so iz Griffin (in college) we will see
Al Horford is a beast, so iz Griffin (in college) we will see
Sorry dude. Griffin is not now, and probably never will be a SF. He's probably athletic enough, but he has no outside game to speak of. This is in no way meant to discredit Griffin, but simply the truth. He's been compared, not by me, but by some scouts as similar to Karl Malone. So let me ask you. If true, would you want to convert Malone into a SF? I think not..
I really feel the kings can make great strides if they get the players I think they will get in this draft with the first overall pick that is if they get it they will take Blake Griffen then with are second pick in the first i am taking patty mills which is a steal his injury may have been a blessing for the kings because he didnt get to display his skills in the tourney then i think another steal would be jodie meeks in the second round which is were he has been slated to go in many mock drafts if the kings get these players i honestly feel we would be set up very well for the future only petrie knows whats going on in his head though who thought we would take jason last year but he always seems to do good drafting players so im excited.....
Scoring points hasn't been a big problem for this Kings team, so Thabeet's offense doesn't worry me. If you want offense, I'd rather the Kings take a PG and move in the draft to do so. Griffin will score in the league, but you already have players on the team to do that. If you have a good point guard, you will get the most out of all the offensive players this team already has, instead of just adding one more scorer to an offense with a busted rudder.
That is why I'm more Thabeet/rubio/pg leaning. Dikembe never had a great offensive game, but he changed games far more than I see Griffin doing.
That is why I'm more Thabeet/rubio/pg leaning. Dikembe never had a great offensive game, but he changed games far more than I see Griffin doing.
It's not just Thabeets offense it's how he will affect the team offense. Can Thabeet make shots from outside and draw Center away from the basket to open up the lanes and back door cuts? Is Thabeet going to be able to out score Yao? Hawes did by making outside shots. Thabeet isn't going to score insided over good centers or outside.
As far as his defense, the NBA guards aren't like the 5'11" kids he saw in college. They're stronger and more athletic. They get to the rim and finish stronger with dunks and use both sides of the rim. Plus, Thabeet is going to have to fight his way thru NBA PF's screens even to get the the ball. And, forget about him helping out on fast breaks, since he barely makes it over the timeline in 8 sec. Finally, with the superior outside shooters in the NBA, Thabeet is going to have fewer opportunities to block people in the NBA. What ever his team gains on the defensive end, they will lose 4 fold on the offensive end.
As far as his defense, the NBA guards aren't like the 5'11" kids he saw in college. They're stronger and more athletic. They get to the rim and finish stronger with dunks and use both sides of the rim. Plus, Thabeet is going to have to fight his way thru NBA PF's screens even to get the the ball. And, forget about him helping out on fast breaks, since he barely makes it over the timeline in 8 sec. Finally, with the superior outside shooters in the NBA, Thabeet is going to have fewer opportunities to block people in the NBA. What ever his team gains on the defensive end, they will lose 4 fold on the offensive end.
But, despite what this sometimes retarded organization has tried to do, you don't want your 7 footers taking outside jump shots. You want them close to the basket, finishing inside plays and grabbing offensive boards.
And you don't want them blocking outside shots. You want them reducing the amount of layups given up, which this team has a horrible time with. If the presence of Thabeet means more outside shots being taken without him there to defend those shots, then your defensive field goal percentage is likely to improve.
You've watched the Kings for years. You must have observed how when this team goes up against a good shot blocker and they defer to outside shots, they start missing more shots. A layup is easier than a three pointer, even if it is worth less points. Don Nelson posted the amount of dunks and layups given up to the Kings in the Mavs training camp for a reason.
A good defensive center doesn't just reduce the points the other center provides, he reduces the points the entirety of the other team scores.
And you don't want them blocking outside shots. You want them reducing the amount of layups given up, which this team has a horrible time with. If the presence of Thabeet means more outside shots being taken without him there to defend those shots, then your defensive field goal percentage is likely to improve.
You've watched the Kings for years. You must have observed how when this team goes up against a good shot blocker and they defer to outside shots, they start missing more shots. A layup is easier than a three pointer, even if it is worth less points. Don Nelson posted the amount of dunks and layups given up to the Kings in the Mavs training camp for a reason.
A good defensive center doesn't just reduce the points the other center provides, he reduces the points the entirety of the other team scores.
How about John Wall?
Mike, FL: Is John Wall the No. 1 pick in 2010 Draft. He was awesome at the Hoop Summit game.
Chad Ford: He was awesome and he'll compete with Ed Davis and a few other freshmen for that. However, there is some buzz that Wall believes he might be eligible for THIS year's draft. I've been doing some digging and will be filing a story later today. The short rub is this: Wall is a 5th year senior and depending on how you read the collective bargaining agreement, 5th year seniors are eligible for the draft as long as the turn 19 in the calander year (Wall does). The league is taking a wait and see approach. If he declares, they'll research and make a ruling. If he does declare and is ruled eligible (two big ifs) he's a Top 5 pick in this draft. Maybe Top 3.
Mike, FL: Is John Wall the No. 1 pick in 2010 Draft. He was awesome at the Hoop Summit game.
Mike, FL: Is John Wall the No. 1 pick in 2010 Draft. He was awesome at the Hoop Summit game.
Chad Ford: He was awesome and he'll compete with Ed Davis and a few other freshmen for that. However, there is some buzz that Wall believes he might be eligible for THIS year's draft. I've been doing some digging and will be filing a story later today. The short rub is this: Wall is a 5th year senior and depending on how you read the collective bargaining agreement, 5th year seniors are eligible for the draft as long as the turn 19 in the calander year (Wall does). The league is taking a wait and see approach. If he declares, they'll research and make a ruling. If he does declare and is ruled eligible (two big ifs) he's a Top 5 pick in this draft. Maybe Top 3.
So what your saying, is that despite who Thabeet is susposed to be guarding, he should just stay next to the basket and let his man shoot away as often as he likes. No need for him to come out and do a show on the other teams pt guard on the pick and roll. Just let them run it to their hearts content. Did anyone bother to notice how many blocked shots in last nights game went right back to the same team that was shooting the ball. And, in the majority of those they scored on their second chance. So what did the blocked shot accomplish?
I'm not arguing for or against Thabeet, or for or against blocked shots. I'm just saying that there's more to playing defense than standing there and swatting at shots. I'm more concerned about his offense. He's still very raw. Regardless of how much you try to limit what he does on the floor offensively, he still has to be a part of whats going on, or else its going to be 4 on 5.
Thabeet would be a steal at 25. He would be a good pick at 10, 11, or 12. But at 1 through 5, I'm still not sold. I hope I'm wrong if we end up with him
I'm not arguing for or against Thabeet, or for or against blocked shots. I'm just saying that there's more to playing defense than standing there and swatting at shots. I'm more concerned about his offense. He's still very raw. Regardless of how much you try to limit what he does on the floor offensively, he still has to be a part of whats going on, or else its going to be 4 on 5.
Thabeet would be a steal at 25. He would be a good pick at 10, 11, or 12. But at 1 through 5, I'm still not sold. I hope I'm wrong if we end up with him
Please don't poaraphrase Jerry's moronic "shotblcoking doesn't matter" line because not every blcoked shot ends up in the defense's hands. Neither does every missed shot, that doesn't mean that playing defense is not important. And every blocked shot is just that -- a forced missed shot.
And yes BTW, the great majority of great teams throughout hisotry have had men who precisely do not want to leave the lane, who show only briefly up top jsut to cut angles on screens (something that Tabeet is excellent at BTW) and who lurk in the lane. The lurk in the lane is THE single most effectiove defensive maneuver in basketball. There is nothing even close. A shotblockedr in the lane hcanged the entire tenor of the game. So no, you don't want him showing out of the lane any more than possible. Ditkembe rarely left the lane, Shaq, Hakeem, David, Ewing, Big Ben, and so on and so on right down through history. They would show on screens if the defense called for it. But they weren't going to let some team dramatically reduce their effectiveness by being drawn out to the three point line to guard some junkball jumpshooting big man.
Again, NOTHING in basketball is as effective defensively as a big shotblocker lurking back there. Nothing. He effectively changes the strategy and lowers the shooting percentage of the entire other team. You never want him to leave that post if you can design a defense to keep him back there.
You know, you almost talk yourself into things at times.
The NBA is full of guys, that under your talking your way into it shceme should be completely ineffective. Tysson Chandler should be comepltely ineffective. Big Ben should be completely ineffective. Kendrick Perkins. Jopel Pryzbilla. Andris Biedrins. And the list goes on. They are hardly ineffective. They are defensive anchors.
There is nothign any different about Thabeet's offense than any of those guys -- in college the lack of talent around him meant they were trying to post him and whatnot. That won't bew necessary in the NBA, and it won't matter in the least. Hel'll set picks, he will roll to the hoop. Occasionally he will seal his man after a back pick and wait for the lob. He'll run the floor and get inside position early and look for the alley oop. Occasionally he'll grab and offensive board and mop up. Its a very effective roleplaying style of offense. MORE effective than many guys who enter the league with some postgame, but not enough of one to make a difference precisely because it does not require the ball. Guys who do not require the ball but who can still be effective without it always can be fitted into an offense.If you think you can leave thabeet then you haven;t seen him play at all this year. You can certainly guard him, but only by keeping a man, or in college frequently several men, in body contact with him at all times. He's 7'3" and as soon as his man loses contract with him he heads right to the hoop where he's nearly impossible to miss. As a major threat in college other teams would spend much of their gameplan making sure that did not happen. As a non-threat in the NBA teams would lvoe to be able to help off of him with that man. But you can't. You leave, he goes to the hoop, its an easy pass to the 7'3" guy for the dunk. That's not only theory, that's the game he plays. And as long as he occupies his man, he's doing his job on that end of the floor.
And as an aside, one of the intriguing things about Thabeet is his developing midrange jumper. Its completely unblockable. If it continues to develop he will actually be a prime offensive roleplayer.
The NBA is full of guys, that under your talking your way into it shceme should be completely ineffective. Tysson Chandler should be comepltely ineffective. Big Ben should be completely ineffective. Kendrick Perkins. Jopel Pryzbilla. Andris Biedrins. And the list goes on. They are hardly ineffective. They are defensive anchors.
There is nothign any different about Thabeet's offense than any of those guys -- in college the lack of talent around him meant they were trying to post him and whatnot. That won't bew necessary in the NBA, and it won't matter in the least. Hel'll set picks, he will roll to the hoop. Occasionally he will seal his man after a back pick and wait for the lob. He'll run the floor and get inside position early and look for the alley oop. Occasionally he'll grab and offensive board and mop up. Its a very effective roleplaying style of offense. MORE effective than many guys who enter the league with some postgame, but not enough of one to make a difference precisely because it does not require the ball. Guys who do not require the ball but who can still be effective without it always can be fitted into an offense.If you think you can leave thabeet then you haven;t seen him play at all this year. You can certainly guard him, but only by keeping a man, or in college frequently several men, in body contact with him at all times. He's 7'3" and as soon as his man loses contract with him he heads right to the hoop where he's nearly impossible to miss. As a major threat in college other teams would spend much of their gameplan making sure that did not happen. As a non-threat in the NBA teams would lvoe to be able to help off of him with that man. But you can't. You leave, he goes to the hoop, its an easy pass to the 7'3" guy for the dunk. That's not only theory, that's the game he plays. And as long as he occupies his man, he's doing his job on that end of the floor.
And as an aside, one of the intriguing things about Thabeet is his developing midrange jumper. Its completely unblockable. If it continues to develop he will actually be a prime offensive roleplayer.
I just can not see passing on griffin his upside is amazing hes and excellent rebounder and has the potiental to be a great defender hes comparable to lebrons athleticism which initially lebron wasnt the greatest defender and you can always improve on your jumpshot if he does this i believe he can be a 3 he can handle the rock pass everything he will be great player and hes only 20 and the future is bright and if we get patty mills too i think we will be set up to be at the top of the west with the blazers for years to come....
What's this delusion that Griffin is some great ball handler? For a PF he's a decent ball handler and a good passer, for a SF he'd be awful.
He's a very good athlete but he does not have LeBron's speed (with or without the ball), first step/lateral quickness, or leaping ability. LeBron is off the charts and probably the most freakish athlete in the NBA ever, and to compare him to Griffin is laughable. Griffin arguably isn't even on par with Amare athletically and Amare can't handle the 3 with even better shooting ability than Griffin.
He's a very good athlete but he does not have LeBron's speed (with or without the ball), first step/lateral quickness, or leaping ability. LeBron is off the charts and probably the most freakish athlete in the NBA ever, and to compare him to Griffin is laughable. Griffin arguably isn't even on par with Amare athletically and Amare can't handle the 3 with even better shooting ability than Griffin.
Oh, I have a hard time seeing us pass on Griffin either, and despite my doubts on that front, I am not even sure I would. But he'll never be a great defender, he's not a 3, and if those are your reasons for drafting him, then you probably shouldn't draft him. Pretty much if I draft him its because he might have the best chance to become a major star. But he only has that chacne playing at PF, and doing it on offense/the glass. This stuff about him being a defender or a SF is jsut wishful thinking. If he's a stud in the NBA, its at PF as a scorer.
And the thing wiht him is if he is NOT a major star in the NBA, then both Rubio and Thabeet have more intriguing and potentially impactful skillsets for us. I am not sure if I could pass on Griffin at #1 for fear of missing out on a star, but if we get #2 or #3 in this draft I am content. Both of those next two guys could fill major needs for us.
But I do have doubts, and no he will never be a great defender and needs to do some work to even become average. I might not pass on Griffin at #1, but I see the Rubio/Thabeet combo as guys with skills more suited to what we need (obviously more than anything else we need a major star, so if Grifin is that, that's why you take him).
And the thing wiht him is if he is NOT a major star in the NBA, then both Rubio and Thabeet have more intriguing and potentially impactful skillsets for us. I am not sure if I could pass on Griffin at #1 for fear of missing out on a star, but if we get #2 or #3 in this draft I am content. Both of those next two guys could fill major needs for us.
But I do have doubts, and no he will never be a great defender and needs to do some work to even become average. I might not pass on Griffin at #1, but I see the Rubio/Thabeet combo as guys with skills more suited to what we need (obviously more than anything else we need a major star, so if Grifin is that, that's why you take him).
Ok he hasnt had to handle it as much at OU but you go look at some of his tape from highschool he handled it very well i have been comparing highschool tape of him and lebron and they are very compareable lebron is a better passer and does it more often but as far as speed and athleticism he is right up there im not saying hes going to be lebron or anything im just saying i see alot of similarities and the upside is to great to pass up .......
This draft is really starting to lineup perfectly for us.
If we get number 1, We go BPA with the potential superstar Griffin.
#2 - Go with the need pick in Rubio.
#3/4 - Need pick with Thabeet and possibly Wall.
All these players can really help us out. I just hope the Kings are targeting the same players most of the fans here on this board want..
If thing end up like this I'll be a happy kings fan ... I just hope all these players enter and we dont draft monroe or harden if we end up with #4
If we get number 1, We go BPA with the potential superstar Griffin.
#2 - Go with the need pick in Rubio.
#3/4 - Need pick with Thabeet and possibly Wall.
All these players can really help us out. I just hope the Kings are targeting the same players most of the fans here on this board want..
If thing end up like this I'll be a happy kings fan ... I just hope all these players enter and we dont draft monroe or harden if we end up with #4
Word is Wall MIGHT qualify for the draft....Even if he does he hasnt entered yet.
It's a shame....We need a PG. There are two potential PG studs who are MAYBES as far as the draft is concerned. Ah well...Kings luck. If one of Rubio or Wall declares we'll get pick number 3, if they both declare we'll get pick #4.
It's a shame....We need a PG. There are two potential PG studs who are MAYBES as far as the draft is concerned. Ah well...Kings luck. If one of Rubio or Wall declares we'll get pick number 3, if they both declare we'll get pick #4.