and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

[HighTopKicks]

Minor problem -- if possible, we'd be even worse defensively. Teams might average 125 against us next year.

When your coaches defensive stategy is to switch JT & Spencer onto Nash on every pick & roll, yes we'll be lucky if we only give up a 125 average. But, how many coaches besides Natt, would do that.

Noc plays d, and JT & Spencer are capable of improving. Martin's had an ankle problem all yr, but should have the quickness & lateral movement to play good Team defense next yr. Given a good starting PG who can play D, and a coach who can teach team defense, and the Kings have the talent to hold teams under 100. That's my theory, and I'm stickin to it until I find out who the next coach is.

 

[SacKings7]

Missed the first half of the Mich St and UConn game, but watching it now, and Thabeet looks very inactive to me...not going for any rebounds whatsoever, and badly missed a hookshot just outside the key. He did make 1 before that, but still, his inactivity so far makes me say "meh" on us drafting him, because he doesn't seem to play hard every game. It's only a few minutes in though, so I'll hold my overall judgment until later.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He always seems to be off-balance when he's going for rebounds, actually he seems off-balance most of the time.

 

[SacKings7]

He always seems to be off-balance when he's going for rebounds, actually he seems off-balance most of the time.

Yup. He's gotten a bit more active since I posted last, but still. He's not out there to carry the team offensively, he's out there to block shots and rebound, and he doesn't seem to want to do it this game. (I'll be honest, I haven't seen much of him)

Also, I've noticed that he brings the ball down most of the time after he grabs a rebound. A lot of bigs do this, but I wish I knew why because it really makes them that much shorter

 

[SacKings7]

Thabeet just left the game after a hard fall, appears to be injured

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

At this point, I pretty much hope that if we get the #1 pick and Rubio doesn't come over, that we can trade down and get Jennings, who I really like...is it the end of May yet, I'm getting anxious for ping pong day.

 

[Entity]

At this point, I pretty much hope that if we get the #1 pick and Rubio doesn't come over, that we can trade down and get Jennings, who I really like...is it the end of May yet, I'm getting anxious for ping pong day.

Thabeet hasn't impressed this game. He gets pushed around by everybody. He needs about 40 more pounds to hold his ground. With that 40 pounds I'd imagine the the athletisism goes away. yeah give me a pg this year.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Thabeet hasn't impressed this game. He gets pushed around by everybody. He needs about 40 more pounds to hold his ground. With that 40 pounds I'd imagine the the athletisism goes away. yeah give me a pg this year.

The problem is he has a hard time holding his position because his high center of gravity. It's why he has to get by mostly on activity and his length, I don't think he'll ever be a very good rebounder or much of a defender outside of shot blocking.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

Thabeet hasn't impressed this game. He gets pushed around by everybody. He needs about 40 more pounds to hold his ground. With that 40 pounds I'd imagine the the athletisism goes away. yeah give me a pg this year.

Pattie Mills i agree.

 

[nbrans]

The problem is he has a hard time holding his position because his high center of gravity. It's why he has to get by mostly on activity and his length, I don't think he'll ever be a very good rebounder or much of a defender outside of shot blocking.

It's really not fair to judge him on his center of gravity when he's going against 6'8" guys. They're just not the types of players he's going to be going against in the NBA. Most NBA teams have 7'0" centers, who are both shorter than Thabeet and not as athletic or quick as he is, but who won't have the center of gravity advantage. It will be a completely different ballgame, and he'll be much better equipped to match up against them physically.

And I am surprised people weren't impressed by Thabeet in this game. He clanged a fifteen footer and missed some shots, but otherwise his offense looked about as impressive as I've seen all season, hitting both right handed and left handed hooks and finishing well around the basket. MSU was able to turn it into an up and down game, which doesn't favor Thabeet, but I thought he looked pretty good offensively.

 

[SacKings7]

It's really not fair to judge him on his center of gravity when he's going against 6'8" guys. They're just not the types of players he's going to be going against in the NBA. Most NBA teams have 7'0" centers, who are both shorter than Thabeet and not as athletic or quick as he is, but who won't have the center of gravity advantage. It will be a completely different ballgame, and he'll be much better equipped to match up against them physically.

And I am surprised people weren't impressed by Thabeet in this game. He clanged a fifteen footer and missed some shots, but otherwise his offense looked about as impressive as I've seen all season, hitting both right handed and left handed hooks and finishing well around the basket. MSU was able to turn it into an up and down game, which doesn't favor Thabeet, but I thought he looked pretty good offensively.

You make it sound as though the height difference in college is a DISadvantage to him, when obviously it's an advantage...and one that he won't have in the NBA (to the same degree).

As for the game, I wasn't impressed by it, but like I said I only saw the second half

 

[Kingster]

It's really not fair to judge him on his center of gravity when he's going against 6'8" guys. They're just not the types of players he's going to be going against in the NBA. Most NBA teams have 7'0" centers, who are both shorter than Thabeet and not as athletic or quick as he is, but who won't have the center of gravity advantage. It will be a completely different ballgame, and he'll be much better equipped to match up against them physically.

And I am surprised people weren't impressed by Thabeet in this game. He clanged a fifteen footer and missed some shots, but otherwise his offense looked about as impressive as I've seen all season, hitting both right handed and left handed hooks and finishing well around the basket. MSU was able to turn it into an up and down game, which doesn't favor Thabeet, but I thought he looked pretty good offensively.

I don't get the logic. If a coach thinks a 6'8" guy is going to do great against Thabeet, why put a 7'1" guy in there who won't? - unless the coach is an idiot. Is that what we would have to count on if we drafted Thabeet - that most NBA coaches are morons? The guy got 6 rebs today. His team got mauled on the offensive boards. He was a non-factor.

I loved this game today. Michigan St. - talk about quickness to the ball. This is what the Kings need to develop - much, much more quickness, and having guys that are willing to use that quickness to go after the ball. The quickest guy we have (Martin) is content to comb his hair rather than go after the ball. The rest of the guys are mediocre in quickness. I hope we come out of this draft with at least two guys who are very quick.

 

[BMiller52]

I actually thought that Thabeet was the only Uconn player who looked like he had anything resembling a pulse. He was the only guy who was able to score, his D could've been better but in most games I've watched he's played good D, and the rebounding could've been better. But I was impressed that he's gotten so much better on offense, that he was pretty dependable in a tournament game. If Price hadn't magically turned into Eric Snow, or they'd had Dyson, or Kemba Walker hadn't turned into a scrub, I think they'd have won. But as much as I hate MSU, they're really good and talented also.

edit:

Also I was really impressed by Ty Lawson. I'm telling you guys his stock is really going to rise.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't get the logic. If a coach thinks a 6'8" guy is going to do great against Thabeet, why put a 7'1" guy in there who won't? - unless the coach is an idiot. Is that what we would have to count on if we drafted Thabeet - that most NBA coaches are morons? The guy got 6 rebs today. His team got mauled on the offensive boards. He was a non-factor.

I loved this game today. Michigan St. - talk about quickness to the ball. This is what the Kings need to develop - much, much more quickness, and having guys that are willing to use that quickness to go after the ball. The quickest guy we have (Martin) is content to comb his hair rather than go after the ball. The rest of the guys are mediocre in quickness. I hope we come out of this draft with at least two guys who are very quick.

No, only an idiot would start a 6'8" center in the NBA. It doesn't work. Maybe you "get" Thabeet. But meanwhile you get your *** kicked inside by everyone else. Your center is shorter than your opponewnt's SF. Such tactics are far more liekly to work in colelge ball, where you have the juunk three point line and there is no depth. Sure, Thabeet is 7'3". but Adrian miht be 6'7" as the next biggest guy, and then its all guards. there ar elimited scoring options, a lot of bad decisionmaking. So you can junk up your personnel and your strategy to counter the unique player without getting punsihed for it by the rest of the other team.

Let's say you insert your 6'8" center against Tyson Chandler in the NBA. Let's even say he is able to hodl his own. Well that's nice, but meanwhile now there is nobody isnide to challenge West, CP3 has the greenlight to penetrate the lane and finish at will, and unless you start two midgets up front, you are probably jut going to see the cross match with West coevering your 6'8" guy and Thabeet covering whoever you have at PF.

There are certain style players better suited for the pros than college. Big centers have always been one of them.

 

[bajaden]

Well, I wasn't surprised by the outcome of this game. UConn has had trouble with quick defensive teams this year. And, although it doesn't count because I didn't state it on this fourm, but locally, at my favorite pub, I picked Mich. St. to win the whole thing.

As for Thabeet, I have no dog in this hunt. He didn't play that well. He had a couple of nice offensive moves, but thats not why he's on the floor. One thing he does that disturbes me is that he doesn't really bust his butt back on defensive transition. He was continually the last man back on defense, and on a couple of occasions, Mich had already scored and was coming back down the floor on thier own transition defense before he got back.

This has been a reocurring thing with me. Everytime I talk myself into liking Thabeet, I see something about him that bothers me.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

No, only an idiot would start a 6'8" center in the NBA. It doesn't work. Maybe you "get" Thabeet. But meanwhile you get your *** kicked inside by everyone else. Your center is shorter than your opponewnt's SF.

I think the point would be to use a 6'8" guy against Thabeet, not to use a 6'8" center all 82 games. Nobody's advocating playing a novelty small-ball lineup full time just because Thabeet enters the league.

That of course is itself contingent upon the argument that Thabeet will have more success against the taller competition in the NBA, which I'm skeptical of in the first place.

 

[asakkings]

Actually I think Thabeet may have more success offensively in NBA than in college. In college he has small guys guarding him and with terrible spacing he is more liable to getting the ball stripped. In NBA with better spacing and slower guys guarding him thabeet may have a little more success, not saying he's the next coming of hakeem but I think he will look a little better offensively in the pros.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think the point would be to use a 6'8" guy against Thabeet, not to use a 6'8" center all 82 games. Nobody's advocating playing a novelty small-ball lineup full time just because Thabeet enters the league.

That of course is itself contingent upon the argument that Thabeet will have more success against the taller competition in the NBA, which I'm skeptical of in the first place.

I was quite specific as to the hows and whys of it being able to work in college, and not in the pros against a player like Thabeet.

First of all, the entire basis of the Don Nelson/Mike D'Antoni systems is exactly to duplicate what Thabeet sees in college -- hey, let's make Tyson Chandler have to guard Al Harrington! Muhahahaha! Except of course while you are doing that your team is getting scored against every time down the floor and you cannot grab a rebound to save your life. This is hardly a Thabeet unique problem. Its basic mismatch ball. Which again you can get away with to a certian degree in college because of the relative twerpiness and incompetence of a big man's teammates, but which crumbles quickly in a league full of huge athletes able to take advnatage of you not having a big man inside to stop them. Maybe you make Thabeet uncomfortable, but at the same time everybody else gets the green light.

Secondly of course this whole thing about Thabeet needing to have more success -- he was one of the dominant forces in college basketball this year, even without an offensive game. His team lost 4 games and made it to the Final Four. How many big centers ever make it to the Final Four? The college game is not designed for them as a rule. Every time they did lose it was Thabeet can't do this or contend with this. His team won...35? games. Something like that. I'll take a 35-4 center thank you if that's really the issue. And in the second Pitt game, as well as the game yesterday, Thabeet outplayed his man. No, Thabeet was no real factor and the game is hardly a feather in his cap. But his man, this alleged 6'8" guy giving him problems, scored 4pts and grabbed 7rebs. Yesterday was a coaching victory for Tom Izzo, not a 6'8" victory for his center. Izzo set his team up to run run run and to shoot threes -- both classic smallball ways to neutralize a big man inside. And it worked, not because of anything particularly unique about Thabeet as a defensive big man, but because his teammates just weren't very good and could neither stop it nor punish it. That doesn't work in the pros with any consistency anymore than constantly using junk zones does. There are certainly ways you can attack Thabeet, or any defensive reolplaying type center, but at what cost? In college you are only sporadically punished for it. In the pros such tactics have never born fruit.

 

[Kingster]

No, only an idiot would start a 6'8" center in the NBA. It doesn't work. Maybe you "get" Thabeet. But meanwhile you get your *** kicked inside by everyone else. Your center is shorter than your opponewnt's SF. Such tactics are far more liekly to work in colelge ball, where you have the juunk three point line and there is no depth. Sure, Thabeet is 7'3". but Adrian miht be 6'7" as the next biggest guy, and then its all guards. there ar elimited scoring options, a lot of bad decisionmaking. So you can junk up your personnel and your strategy to counter the unique player without getting punsihed for it by the rest of the other team.

Let's say you insert your 6'8" center against Tyson Chandler in the NBA. Let's even say he is able to hodl his own. Well that's nice, but meanwhile now there is nobody isnide to challenge West, CP3 has the greenlight to penetrate the lane and finish at will, and unless you start two midgets up front, you are probably jut going to see the cross match with West coevering your 6'8" guy and Thabeet covering whoever you have at PF.

There are certain style players better suited for the pros than college. Big centers have always been one of them.

What has starting have to do with it? It works because the center doesn't have an offensive game. It's THAT SIMPLE. If he can't score against a 6'8" guy in the post either because of his own ineptitude or the ineptitude of his team getting him the ball, the 6'8" wing player will outplay the 7'3" center. Don't make the simple complicated.

 

[Hallama]

Of the likely top 5 picks, I was thinking of some designations:

Most unique skill: Rubio's passing. Perfect timing, great instincts. If he doesn't enter, then I'd say Thabeet's interior presence, blocks + adjusting shots.

Most athletic: Blake Griffin. With his size plus athletic ability this is a no-brainer. Uses his abilities better than other gifted athletes such as DeRozan.

Basketball skills: This has to be James Harden. Dribbling, passing, shooting, rebounding. He's just got that Brandon Roy ability, just without the same athletic ability as Roy.

 

[Oprostaj]

What has starting have to do with it? It works because the center doesn't have an offensive game. It's THAT SIMPLE. If he can't score against a 6'8" guy in the post either because of his own ineptitude or the ineptitude of his team getting him the ball, the 6'8" wing player will outplay the 7'3" center. Don't make the simple complicated.

There are many ways to be outplayed, sound stupid but it's true. Thabeet is not an offensive force. He is a rebounder and he blocks shots. That's it. He showed very good hands around the basket, layed it up in tough situations and showed nice touch on his jump hooks. Having said that, this is the quietest 16 points you will ever see. He was not a factor, which is what the tallest and longest player on the court should always be. This game does not suit him, this is true, but you better come up with something more than this, small ball or no small ball. With all the bricks that State was putting up, all UConn would have had to do was walk it up, throw it to Thabeet, and get a bucket. He can't do that though, which will limit his ability to be productive offensively. Translation = if he doesn't average 15 RPG and 3 BPG, chances are he's not going to be a force in the NBA, because god knows offense will be an issue. Also... from what I saw in that game, he is not a good passer, and downright terrible out of double teams. That has to change, otherwise he will be totally taken out of the game at the next level, where defenses/defenders are more disciplined (clippers do not count, they're not an NBA team).

 

[SacKings7]

There are many ways to be outplayed, sound stupid but it's true. Thabeet is not an offensive force. He is a rebounder and he blocks shots. That's it. He showed very good hands around the basket, layed it up in tough situations and showed nice touch on his jump hooks. Having said that, this is the quietest 16 points you will ever see. He was not a factor, which is what the tallest and longest player on the court should always be. This game does not suit him, this is true, but you better come up with something more than this, small ball or no small ball. With all the bricks that State was putting up, all UConn would have had to do was walk it up, throw it to Thabeet, and get a bucket. He can't do that though, which will limit his ability to be productive offensively. Translation = if he doesn't average 15 RPG and 3 BPG, chances are he's not going to be a force in the NBA, because god knows offense will be an issue. Also... from what I saw in that game, he is not a good passer, and downright terrible out of double teams. That has to change, otherwise he will be totally taken out of the game at the next level, where defenses/defenders are more disciplined (clippers do not count, they're not an NBA team).

What about the Suns? Shaq or no Shaq, they have to be one of the worst defensive teams in NBA history

 

[gunks]

If we dont get number 1 maybe we should trade down for Tyreke Evans.

Move some players that make up our 2/3 logjam and see what happens.



...I think next year is the draft where we get a stud. Even with a high pick it seems like this is a roleplayer or bench draft right up into the top 6 players.

 

[bigbadred00]

If we dont get number 1 maybe we should trade down for Tyreke Evans.

Move some players that make up our 2/3 logjam and see what happens.



...I think next year is the draft where we get a stud. Even with a high pick it seems like this is a roleplayer or bench draft right up into the top 6 players.

I don't understand the infatuation with Tyreke. I've never been impressed with him. He isn't worth a top 10 pick to me. He has no shot which is bad for a swing player, his decision making is really overrated as well.

 

[Bricklayer]

What has starting have to do with it? It works because the center doesn't have an offensive game. It's THAT SIMPLE. If he can't score against a 6'8" guy in the post either because of his own ineptitude or the ineptitude of his team getting him the ball, the 6'8" wing player will outplay the 7'3" center. Don't make the simple complicated.

No, the 6'8" wing player might outrscore him, but outscoring somebody doesn't mean jack if you are losing the battle in other areas, not only to Thabeet himself, but allowing thabeet's temamates to run over you as well.

And BTW, no 6'8" "wing player" can guard Thabeet. 6'8" bigs...maybe if they go about 260. But that's not relevant. SCORING IS NOT RELEVANT. It was not relevant to Big Ben. Is not relevant to Tyson Chandler (beyond the lob dunks which Thabeet CAN do). And is not relevant to Thabeet.

As an aside, this whole "I'll outplay him with a 6'8" matchup problem" thing is borderline ridiculous. A 7'3" center isn't about playing his own man. Playing your own man is nice. Its not what shotblocking or dominant interior defense is about. In the NBA Thabeet will very obviously guard whichever of the opposing bigs that spends the most time in the interior. But his value, like the value of all shotblockers, is on the effect he has on all the OTHER players out there. One the goofy 6'8" alleged matchup problem can never cause. You could outscore Thabeet 15-6 on paper and still watch your team lose the game as everybody else was deterred from driving the line.

 

[RiffRaff]

The NBA owes the Kings the #1 pick for that ref givin the game to the lakers back in the day

 

[bajaden]

And BTW, no 6'8" "wing player" can guard Thabeet. 6'8" bigs...maybe if they go about 260. But that's not relevant. SCORING IS NOT RELEVANT. It was not relevant to Big Ben. Is not relevant to Tyson Chandler (beyond the lob dunks which Thabeet CAN do). And is not relevant to Thabeet.

Not to be picky, but one could make a relevant arguement that Thabeet doesn't need guarding very much, based on his current offensive skill level, which will be more severely tested in the NBA. Thus, it does leave us with your contention that he's worth drafting on his defensive abilites alone.

I honestly wish I shared your conviction about Thabeet. I have sincerely tried to like him, and, I'm certainly aware that he's improved a great deal from last year to this year. I'm also aware the the areas in which he's lacking can be improved upon. But will they? I really don't know much about his work ethic or desire, and I've watched this guy for three years now.

Some of the scouting reports that I've read don't exactly give me that warm fuzzy feeling I'm looking for. I guess there is no sure thing in the draft, and the Kings greatest need is at point guard and defense. I just wish we were drafting him at 12 or 13 instead of 1,2 or 3, if we draft him. I guess I would sum it up by saying that I would bet your house that he's a sucess in the NBA, but I wouldn't bet my own.

 

[Oprostaj]

What about the Suns? Shaq or no Shaq, they have to be one of the worst defensive teams in NBA history

It's a difference in philosophy. Mike D'Antoni saw that his squad is athletic, fast, and can shoot from every position. He used its strenghts. We saw what happened when they tried to instill defense. They're the exception, not the rule.

 

[Kingster]

No, the 6'8" wing player might outrscore him, but outscoring somebody doesn't mean jack if you are losing the battle in other areas, not only to Thabeet himself, but allowing thabeet's temamates to run over you as well.

Red herring. Doesn't address the point and comes up with false issues like "losing the battle in other areas."

And BTW, no 6'8" "wing player" can guard Thabeet. 6'8" bigs...maybe if they go about 260. But that's not relevant. SCORING IS NOT RELEVANT. It was not relevant to Big Ben. Is not relevant to Tyson Chandler (beyond the lob dunks which Thabeet CAN do). And is not relevant to Thabeet. .

Noc could guard Thabeet. There are plenty of NBA players wings that could guard Thabeet. Heck, a lot of college guys in college that guarded him would be considered wings in the NBA. Unfortunately for Thabeet, he couldn't guard any wing in the NBA.

As an aside, this whole "I'll outplay him with a 6'8" matchup problem" thing is borderline ridiculous. A 7'3" center isn't about playing his own man. Playing your own man is nice. Its not what shotblocking or dominant interior defense is about. In the NBA Thabeet will very obviously guard whichever of the opposing bigs that spends the most time in the interior. But his value, like the value of all shotblockers, is on the effect he has on all the OTHER players out there. One the goofy 6'8" alleged matchup problem can never cause. You could outscore Thabeet 15-6 on paper and still watch your team lose the game as everybody else was deterred from driving the line.

The fact that you think its ridiculous really wins me over. Yao is a 7'6" center, and his intimidating presence was virtually nowhere to be seen last night - except on offense. Why? Because the Kings could spread the floor with bigs who can shoot outside. It's really not that complicated...

 

[asakkings]

How does Griffin compare to Al Horford, I havent seen horford play much but they seem about similar heights with Griffin being more athletic and Horford probably defender.