Griffin or Rubio????

[beb0p]

I just hope he will be able to score about 12-16 pts/game to go with his 10+ assists and 2-3 steals, and that his athleticism is on par with the better PGs in the league. These are big questions unanswered and what GP gets paid to envision, or not.

Finally, someone who spells out how good Rubio is projected to be. I think this is what many of us have been asking but didn't get an answer to.

If Rubio can put up that many pts in addition to 10 assists, 2-3 steals, and athleticism on par wit the top PGs then hell yea, he's the #1 pick!

But I just don't see how he can score that many points. How? He has no mid-range game, not a good shooter, and has trouble finishing in traffic. How is he going to get 12-16pts unless he shoots a lot (something he probably won't do)?

My projection for Rubio is 10pts, 8 assists, 1.5 steals, and around 43% FG.

As for his athleticsm, I think it's pretty much settled that he's not on par with PGs like Paul, Deron, Parker, Westbrook, Conley, Ellis, Baron, and Brooks. And those are just the ones in our conference.

 

[beb0p]

Yep. And I remember the arguments we had around here about Carmelo v. James. I think we'd be hard-pressed to find anyone now who would pick Melo over Lebron...

There was actually people who wanted Melo over James? Even back then the choice was obvious... I thought.

 

[AriesMar27]

There was actually people who wanted Melo over James? Even back then the choice was obvious... I thought.

not to get off topic, but i used to hate lebrons game but then he made me a believer. i still love carmelos game though... he's the player that paul pierce wished he could be. easily the 2nd best small forward in the nba.

but back to the topic....

i'd pick rubio over griffin. or draft griffin and trade thompson to a team for rubio and have both..... nah.... id just take rubio.

 

[Sac.1989]

take griffen we can land a solid PG through FA let alone if Beno gets back to form, it was only last year he was lighting it up for us

 

[ParniValjak]

You guys aren't addressing the question. The question isn't who do you want more or should we trade down, the question is do you take Griffin or Rubio with the #1 pick??

And personally I think anyone taking Rubio over Griffin with the #1 pick is nuts. It's a lot of wishful thinking to think that his passing ability alone is more likely to pan out than Griffin's athleticism and motor.

People are rooting for the player they want Rubio to be, not the player he is. I can't believe people have gotten so out of control with their Rubio love. The guy is limited even in the best case scenario!!

Your obsession with athleticism is bordering on madness.

I take Rubio all day every day and twice on sundays.

 

[swisshh]

If you take the Griffin you become the best of the bad teams for the following years.

If you take the potential bust or potential great in Rubio you are where you started or you have turned things around.

You either end up the New Orleans Hornets, Charlotte Bobcats or Sacramento Kings.

Being that the Hornets are the only worthwhile possible comparison, I'd take Rubio.

edit: For calrity's sake: Griffin = Bobcats. Rubio = Hornets or Kings again.

 

[nbrans]

Your obsession with athleticism is bordering on madness.

I take Rubio all day every day and twice on sundays.

How?? Who are the players who aren't athletic who are tearing up the NBA? You can count them on one hand, and they can all shoot. It's madness to NOT be obsessed with athleticism when evaluating players.

 

[Sac.1989]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...ookierank-nba-20090318&prov=nba_com&type=lgns

Any team with the first overall pick needs to take Blake Griffin.

Adjust your team around his strengths, if need be. He's that good.

Some compare him to Amar'e Stoudemire, but even that's a little misleading because Amar'e can't start your break after grabbing a rebound. Griffin does it at Oklahoma all the time and he usually makes great decisions in transition.

Griffin is also incredibly difficult to double-team because he's unselfish and creative as a passer. The rest of the Sooners are constantly benefiting from open looks he's provided.

His post footwork need some polish, yet that will come with time. Right now he simply spins by, backs down, or leaps over whoever is guarding him. His toughness is legendary, as we all saw when he flew into the crowd to save a loose ball in his first game back from a concussion.

But my favorite part of Griffin is that he truly loves the game. Teammates say he works harder than anyone they've ever seen and it shows. Many projected him as a lottery pick last year and he's twice the player now that he was then.

 

[beb0p]

If you take the potential bust or potential great in Rubio you are where you started or you have turned things around.

Ok, I understand people who wants Rubio because they think he is the next great PG.

But I don't understand people who wants to gamble with the #1 overall pick. If he turns out every bit as you expected, great; but if he turns into a flop then what? Call it karma but a botched #1 WILL set a franchise back years. Just ask the Warriors, Wizard, and lastly, the Kings how long it took to recover from such a disaster.

 

[Sac.1989]

exactly griffin is a sure thing and if we have the #1 there is no way in hell id like to see to see us take anyone over him.

If we get girffin and land sessions in FA i doubt anyone will be complaining

 

[AriesMar27]

exactly griffin is a sure thing and if we have the #1 there is no way in hell id like to see to see us take anyone over him.

If we get girffin and land sessions in FA i doubt anyone will be complaining

thats true... if we ended up with sessions i would be cool.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Griffin.Griffin.Griffin.Griffin.

After putting up MONSTER numbers all year, He continues to deliver in the tournament. He is a rediculous athlete with incredible strength. Players of his caliber dont usually show the kind of hustle he has displayed either (reference to his first game after the concussion were he was flying into the stands for loose balls ) .. every time I see Griffin play I think of how level headed and smart he is. After that guy flipped him over during the first round of the tournament he didnt retaliate at all and that said a lot to me about his character.

This is coming from someone who likes Rubio. Rubio has 1000 more question marks than Griffin, and when you have the #1 overall pick, you better not **** up... Rubio could be a huuuge mistake while Griffin is a boarderline sure thing.

 

[ParniValjak]

How?? Who are the players who aren't athletic who are tearing up the NBA? You can count them on one hand, and they can all shoot. It's madness to NOT be obsessed with athleticism when evaluating players.

ABsolute rubbish! Lets also look at how many athletic freaks bomb out of the NBA or a marginal players at the very best.

Of course athletic ability is important but give me a natural basketballer over a raw athlete every day of the week and twice on sundays.

The number of athletes that bomb out due to their lack of IQ is incerdibly high, but hey, they can jump high, run fast and can dunk so they must be good

 

[Jaylee209]

Griffin reminds me a lot of Kenyon Martin. Rubio reminds me of a less athletic Rajon Rondo. It's like we have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

Anyway, we aren't getting the top pick anyway. I'm pretty damn sure -- with our luck-- we're getting the 4th pick. Book it!

 

[Dime Dropper]

Griffin reminds me a lot of Kenyon Martin. Rubio reminds me of a less athletic Rajon Rondo. It's like we have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

Anyway, we aren't getting the top pick anyway. I'm pretty damn sure -- with our luck-- we're getting the 4th pick. Book it!

Those comparisons are way off, particularly the Rubio one. How you came to the conclusion that he has a similar game to Rondo is beyond me. I also think Griffin has more upside than Kenyon.

I'll be happy with either the first or second pick assuming both Griffin and Rubio are in. I like Griffin alot, and unlike alot here, I actually think he could be a star. People know how I feel about Rubio, too. I'll take either one.

 

[CruzDude]

WOW! Do I love this dialog. But bit surprising that Rubio leads 35-24 in votes.

Seems many agree Rubio has great upside and some risk but nearly as many think Griffin will have an immediate impact of the type of player the Kings need. Oh they need a PG for sure but they need a big, athletic defender as much if not more.

I am a Beno fan and with a big time defender in the middle who can defend, bang, score, rebound and block, Beno's assists and his performance will go way up. With Rubio the Kings still have a very leaky middle and the opposition has no reason to collapse on the paint giving Rubio NBA type defense and cutting down his effectiveness big time. Not so with Griffin.

 

[Jaylee209]

Those comparisons are way off, particularly the Rubio one. How you came to the conclusion that he has a similar game to Rondo is beyond me. I also think Griffin has more upside than Kenyon.

I'll be happy with either the first or second pick assuming both Griffin and Rubio are in. I like Griffin alot, and unlike alot here, I actually think he could be a star. People know how I feel about Rubio, too. I'll take either one.

I think the Kenyon Martin comparison is spot on. Both are athletic bigs with very few real post moves coming out of a weak draft. The Rubio and Rondo comparison came on my opinion that Rubio is a good defender (steals, pesky hands) and great passer, but can't shoot at all (like Rondo). Maybe I should clarify that these are their Low's camparisons.

 

[beb0p]

Of course athletic ability is important but give me a natural basketballer over a raw athlete every day of the week and twice on sundays.

The number of athletes that bomb out due to their lack of IQ is incerdibly high, but hey, they can jump high, run fast and can dunk so they must be good

Com'on, no one is proposing we draft the second coming of Sean Williams! All the guys being talked about are hard workers and smart bballers.

I noticed a tendency by some pro-Rubio to take the argument to the extreme. Look, in the NBA, he'll be facing someone faster and more athletic than him almost on a gamely basis. The proper response is to layout why you think Rubio can succed despite his lack of speed and explosiveness compared to other starting PGs. Because those are things many of his critics want to know as well.

 

[jdbraver]

Griffin, you know what I meant, will be an allstar big, rubio atbest is another jwill. I'm glad some people here aren't sitting in Petrie's chair.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Beasley will be an allstar big, rubio atbest is another jwill. I'm glad some people here aren't sitting in Petrie's chair.

It sure is a shame Beasley isn't in this draft then.

The irony of what you said makes my head hurt.

 

[Pangloss]

WOW! Do I love this dialog. But bit surprising that Rubio leads 35-24 in votes.

Seems many agree Rubio has great upside and some risk but nearly as many think Griffin will have an immediate impact of the type of player the Kings need. Oh they need a PG for sure but they need a big, athletic defender as much if not more.

I am a Beno fan and with a big time defender in the middle who can defend, bang, score, rebound and block, Beno's assists and his performance will go way up. With Rubio the Kings still have a very leaky middle and the opposition has no reason to collapse on the paint giving Rubio NBA type defense and cutting down his effectiveness big time. Not so with Griffin.

I like Griffin but other than being athletic, the parts in bold of your post are simply wrong as a description of Griffin. If he can score and rebound nearly as well in the pros as he does in college then he is obviously worth taking. The team, however will need to either find a player at the 5,(Chandler, Biedrins) or maybe even a Kirilenko (Josh Smith is said to be having problems with his coach in Atlanta, and the Hawks are notoriously thrifty) at the 3 to compensate for him if the Kings ever want to have a team that can play any kind of defense. With time Griffin very well may develop into a solid man defender but as of today he is not and it seems very unlikely he will develop into much of a shot-blocker at the next level.

 

[SacKings384]

Blake Griffin just dropped 33/17 yesterday vs. Michigan. He also had a thunderous dunk where he LEAD THE BREAK and just threw it down on some guy. How is there any QUESTION that this guy is the #1 pick? We just aren't athletic enough up front, and we don't have someone that ferociously goes after the board the way Griffin does. I think a lot of people are so blinded by their love for Hawes and Thompson, that they aren't willing to see that Griffin is the superior pick to Rubio. Rubio looks like he will be a great player... However... He is not very quick, he's not strong at all, and his shot is solid at best. He is WAY too slow to guard the likes of Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Rose, or any other good PG in this league. We need someone with some toughness, some intensity, and some athleticism. Blake Griffin is all those things, plus more.

 

[HighTopKicks]

I like Griffin but other than being athletic, the parts in bold of your post are simply wrong as a description of Griffin. If he can score and rebound nearly as well in the pros as he does in college then he is obviously worth taking. The team, however will need to either find a player at the 5,(Chandler, Biedrins) or maybe even a Kirilenko (Josh Smith is said to be having problems with his coach in Atlanta, and the Hawks are notoriously thrifty) at the 3 to compensate for him if the Kings ever want to have a team that can play any kind of defense. With time Griffin very well may develop into a solid man defender but as of today he is not and it seems very unlikely he will develop into much of a shot-blocker at the next level.

And, you feel this way, Why?

There are a lot of kids coming out of college, that have to learn man defense in the pros. And, there are some that turn out to be better shot-blockers than projected, Hawes!

 

[Vlade4GM]

And, you feel this way, Why?

There are a lot of kids coming out of college, that have to learn man defense in the pros. And, there are some that turn out to be better shot-blockers than projected, Hawes!

We'll see when his measurements come out, but I don't think he has the longest wingspan, not short but not especially long either. Spencer's bpg in college was 2.4 per 40, while Griffin's is only 1.5. He really just hasn't shown much aptitude for help D. I'm not really convinced of Griffin's lateral quickness too. His BCS is a better rebounding Kenyon Martin without the D.

 

[Pangloss]

And, you feel this way, Why?

There are a lot of kids coming out of college, that have to learn man defense in the pros. And, there are some that turn out to be better shot-blockers than projected, Hawes!

I do think it is possible for Griffin to become a good man defender as I think I alluded to in my post. I would also agree it is possible for a player to improve on something they did not do as a collegian. The question shouldn't be, in my opinion, one of possibility but one of probability. Taking a glance at both the list for blocks per game and blocks per 48 minutes lists I didn't see an analogue for Griffin. The closest might be Tyrus Thomas who is 12th in blocks per game, but his skills as a shot-blocker manifested themselves at the college level.

I agree Griffin has a chance of being a solid individual defender, he has the quickness and strength if not yet the desire, to compete man to man. But. . .
The best shot-blockers are guys who have elite size and/ or athleticism. The shortest guy on the NBA top ten list is 6"10. Yes, maybe Griffin becomes the exception, however I stand by my statement that the odds are against him suddenly acquiring that skill, and that expecting him to suddenly develop a talent that he has yet to show--a talent that correlates to a physical attribute (height) he does not possess-- is rooted more in wishful thinking than it is a reasonable expectation.

As for Hawes being a better shot-blocker than projected; first of all, unlike Griffin, he is a seven footer, and second I recall him being projected as an adequate shot-blocker; he averaged 1.7 blocks per game as a freshman in college and now averages 1.3 as a pro, behind D-Wade and some guy named James. Also, not to be needlessly critical of Hawes, but I believe the ineptness of our other bigs at shot-blocking as well as the sieve that is our guard defense makes him appear better at that aspect of the game than he probably is.

I suspect some might read this post as an attack Griffin but that is not my intention. Their doesn't seem to be an obvious guy to pick over him and if we take him he has my support 100%. But it seems unfair to me to expect something from a guy which he has not yet shown. If we take Rubio I am not expecting brilliant shooting; if we take Thabeet I am not expecting complicated post moves; and if we take Griffiin I am not expecting much defense in the short term or shot-blocking in the longterm. Hopefully guys do improve, but it is a recipe for disappointment for fans, and unfair to the players themselves to expect them to be other than what the evidence thus far points toward.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I do think it is possible for Griffin to become a good man defender as I think I alluded to in my post. I would also agree it is possible for a player to improve on something they did not do as a collegian. The question shouldn't be, in my opinion, one of possibility but one of probability. Taking a glance at both the list for blocks per game and blocks per 48 minutes lists I didn't see an analogue for Griffin. The closest might be Tyrus Thomas who is 12th in blocks per game, but his skills as a shot-blocker manifested themselves at the college level.

I agree Griffin has a chance of being a solid individual defender, he has the quickness and strength if not yet the desire, to compete man to man. But. . .
The best shot-blockers are guys who have elite size and/ or athleticism. The shortest guy on the NBA top ten list is 6"10. Yes, maybe Griffin becomes the exception, however I stand by my statement that the odds are against him suddenly acquiring that skill, and that expecting him to suddenly develop a talent that he has yet to show--a talent that correlates to a physical attribute (height) he does not possess-- is rooted more in wishful thinking than it is a reasonable expectation.

As for Hawes being a better shot-blocker than projected; first of all, unlike Griffin, he is a seven footer, and second I recall him being projected as an adequate shot-blocker; he averaged 1.7 blocks per game as a freshman in college and now averages 1.3 as a pro, behind D-Wade and some guy named James. Also, not to be needlessly critical of Hawes, but I believe the ineptness of our other bigs at shot-blocking as well as the sieve that is our guard defense makes him appear better at that aspect of the game than he probably is.

I suspect some might read this post as an attack Griffin but that is not my intention. Their doesn't seem to be an obvious guy to pick over him and if we take him he has my support 100%. But it seems unfair to me to expect something from a guy which he has not yet shown. If we take Rubio I am not expecting brilliant shooting; if we take Thabeet I am not expecting complicated post moves; and if we take Griffiin I am not expecting much defense in the short term or shot-blocking in the longterm. Hopefully guys do improve, but it is a recipe for disappointment for fans, and unfair to the players themselves to expect them to be other than what the evidence thus far points toward.

This is a quality post. Well thought out and spot on. Kudos.

 

[Pangloss]

This is a quality post. Well thought out and spot on. Kudos.

Thanks.

I wish I had been clever enough to find the statistic Vlade4GM used though.

 

[beb0p]

We'll see when his measurements come out, but I don't think he has the longest wingspan, not short but not especially long either.

I think you mean "standing reach", not "wingspan"? Because guys like Griffin, who has wide shoulders, tend to have longer than normal wingspan.

 

[jdbraver]

Despite measurement some players can just flat out play. Griffin is one of these. Ask rodman or barkley if size is the only thing that makes a good defender.

 

[SGLSacMan]

I think Rubio reminds a lot of Kings fans of Jason Williams. Also, he is a player who many of you have only seen play via Youtube highlight videos. I like the kid, he's nice, but the Kings (especially the Kings) should never draft a player like Rubio over a 6'10" post savvy, athletic, gutsy, self-sacrificing, physical specimen like Griffin. If the Kings are fortunate to get the 1 and 1, they better santch this kid up. But watch, knowing this organization they'll surprise everyone and draft Tyler Hansbrough or better yet Ben Woodside from ND State.