and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

[ovrush]

Harden is nowhere to be found right now. He is being extremely passive; standing around and just being all around ineffective for his team. If i didn't know any better I'd say that he looks uninterested. I've liked him when I've seen him this year, but not today.

This pretty much describes Teague's first round game as well. It was my first time watching teague this year, and although you could see the great athletecism and solid vision I was let down with how little emotion and leadership he showed in a "win or go home game".

Cedrick Jackson was fantastic on the other end.

 

[Pangloss]

This pretty much describes Teague's first round game as well. It was my first time watching teague this year, and although you could see the great athletecism and solid vision I was let down with how little emotion and leadership he showed in a "win or go home game".

Cedrick Jackson was fantastic on the other end.

Teague has faded quite badly as of late. One would think his stock in the draft lottery is going to suffer.

 

[nbrans]

I didn't see the Wake game because they were showing other ones, but yeah, Teague's fade down the stretch really gives me pause.

But it's also important to note that Dino Gaudio took the ball out of Teague's hands and they started going downhill. Gaudio really should be fired. He's terrible. No team with three NBA lottery picks should be that bad, particularly this season.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, but nobody in their right mind would ever call Kobe pass-first. Lebron averages 7 assists per game this season but when his team is down by two points you know he's taking the shot. #1 impact guys can get their points with the game on the line no matter who is guarding them. Are you willing to put Ricky Rubio in the same category as those guys? He doesn't have the athleticism, the strength, or even the skill level to assert himself offensively. The only reason Chris Paul is in the discussion is because he shoots a ridiculously high percentage from the field along with being the best ball thief in basketball and putting up around 10 assists per game with only 1 or 2 turnovers. It's hard to imagine a PG being better than Chris Paul and his team is probably not going to make it out of the first round this year.

If you want to split hairs, no single player in the league can do it by themself. But there's a hierarchy of importance. You don't build a team around Tony Parker, you build a team arond Tim Duncan. Tony Parker is important, but not nearly as important as your post scorer and interior defender. The Kings were a championship contender while they had Webber. Once Webber was gone, we weren't a legitimate contender anymore even with the supporting cast intact. Bibby was one of the best young PGs in the league when he signed his extension. Take away Webber and he became a costly extravangance on a losing team even as he put up 40 point games. Yes we need a PG badly, but more than anything we need a dominant player to establish an identity. If you ask me, it's wishful thinking that Rubio or any other PG prospect will be that player.

Look, I think you and I are pretty much in agreement here. Were just sort of mixing apples and oranges around. There are key pieces to a team. Right now, we may have a couple, three in place. At least two of those three are still very much in the development stage, but the future looks bright there. We desperately need a pass first pt guard. Someone that will take hold of the offense and run it with a tight hand.

Between last year and this year, I've probably seen Griffin play 25 times, and I can't sit here and guarantee anyone that he'll be as good as I think he will be. I'd bet your house on it, but I wouldn't bet my own. I've seen Rubio play twice, along with a bunch of youtube highlights. So I can't in good faith look anyone in the eye and say that he's a lock to be a star. I thought Jason Kidd would. I thought Kevin Johnson would. I didn't think Kenny Smith would. I was right on all three of them. But, I watched them all play a lot of games. To be honest, I thought Hurley would be a very good player. We'll never know, but my gut tells me that I was wrong about him.

But your right. The Kings also need a franchise player. There is never a guarantee that comes along with a player. Even Lebron had some doubters. Some are more sure things than others. But sometimes, its the others that turn out to be the franchise player. No one knew that Malone was going to be as great as he was. Well, I did, I just didn't tell anyone.

There could be a lesson to be learned with that particular draft. The Kings already had a power forward in Thorpe. They needed a center, so they drafted Kleine and passed on Malone. They drafted for need instead of taking the best player available. It makes me want to throw up when I think how good the Kings could have been. They could have had Malone and Kevin Johnson, and our history would have been dramaticly different.

You know what? I think I just talked myself into Griffin. Whew, I feel so much better.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I watched Wake-ClevSt on NCAA.com with my laptop sitting upright on coffee table while viewing other action on CBS-TV. Wake looked like a bunch of out-of-control kids playing a group of men on a mission.

Teague was simply over-matched by a MUCH bigger back court, and quick wing players swarming him relentlessly. He had 7 turnovers and nearly all of them were forced when trying to spit double teams attempting to get into the paint - which he rarely did. A couple of times he went with passes into a crowd forcing the action like a want-to-be PG with no command of his team. All in all, his performance was the key to ClevSt pulling off the biggest upset of the tourney so far and proved without question to me that Jeff Teague is not a PG. Just another combo guard - certainly not an NBA level PG by a mile. I'm not saying he's not talented but I'd take a clone-like Stephen Curry over him.

 

[nbrans]

I mean, here's the thing. Again, I didn't see the game. But he's not playing PG because his coach has him in at SG. The Wake coaching staff is completely incompetent. We'll see how he does in the NBA, but the team went downhill when they moved him from PG to SG. He destroyed UNC personally, and they beat Duke when he was playing PG. Then they made a change and the season went downhill.

 

[ovrush]

I watched Wake-ClevSt on NCAA.com with my laptop sitting upright on coffee table while viewing other action on CBS-TV. Wake looked like a bunch of out-of-control kids playing a group of men on a mission.

Teague was simply over-matched by a MUCH bigger back court, and quick wing players swarming him relentlessly. He had 7 turnovers and nearly all of them were forced when trying to spit double teams attempting to get into the paint - which he rarely did. A couple of times he went with passes into a crowd forcing the action like a want-to-be PG with no command of his team. All in all, his performance was the key to ClevSt pulling off the biggest upset of the tourney so far and proved without question to me that Jeff Teague is not a PG. Just another combo guard - certainly not an NBA level PG by a mile. I'm not saying he's not talented but I'd take a clone-like Stephen Curry over him.

This is pretty harsh. I actually thought the few runs Wake went on were when Teague was running the point (Wake's starting point was consistantly overmatched by Jackson). He had a couple drive and dishes that i thought showed the ability to not only get into the paint, but solid vision once he was there. Like I said in my first post it wasn't an impressive outing by him. Seeing him for the first time, however, I was left more with the impression that he would be more than capable of being an NBA point rather than the thought that he could never do it. He has the physical tools, and the vision and ballhandling to do it.

My let down was more that he didn't carry himself like a leader. His body language and exressions after plays just looked like he couldn't care less about the result on the court.

 

[kingsnation]

This is pretty harsh. I actually thought the few runs Wake went on were when Teague was running the point (Wake's starting point was consistantly overmatched by Jackson). He had a couple drive and dishes that i thought showed the ability to not only get into the paint, but solid vision once he was there. Like I said in my first post it wasn't an impressive outing by him. Seeing him for the first time, however, I was left more with the impression that he would be more than capable of being an NBA point rather than the thought that he could never do it. He has the physical tools, and the vision and ballhandling to do it.

My let down was more that he didn't carry himself like a leader. His body language and exressions after plays just looked like he couldn't care less about the result on the court.

I didn't get to see the game, however the last part of your post concerns me. If your observation is accurate, then Teague is the EXACT opposite of who we need running the offense in Sacramento.

Did anyone else notice this?

 

[nbrans]

I didn't get to see the game, however the last part of your post concerns me. If your observation is accurate, then Teague is the EXACT opposite of who we need running the offense in Sacramento.

Yeah, the guy was broken down as the season went on. I don't think it reflects well. Even if you've lost faith in your coach, you can't give up. I don't think it's necessarily a death knell for him, but I agree -- he basically looked like he was done for the last 10 games, and no matter your situation you just can't do that.

 

[SacKings7]

Teague faded yes, but he's not the reason they lost. Ever since their great start and their #1 ranking, they've stopped going inside to their bigs and relied on their guards. The coach needs to be blamed moreso than Teague

 

[kingsnation]

Teague faded yes, but he's not the reason they lost. Ever since their great start and their #1 ranking, they've stopped going inside to their bigs and relied on their guards. The coach needs to be blamed moreso than Teague

If it's true that his full head and heart weren't in it, then I would say that he has to be just as much blamed. He is the leader of that team, and if he's not putting forth full effort - then the whole team suffers.

 

[Kingster]

I'm with you on Mills. I really like him. He has a lot of confidence and toughness, and played pretty well against the USA in the olympics going up against great competition.

I just don't know how in the world we're going to be able to get Mills, unless Petrie changes his spots and does some trades on draft day.

I saw Isaiah Thomas play very well today for Washington. I can see why he was freshman of the year in the Pac 10. He's impressive, one to keep an eye on down the line (I doubt he comes out this year).

The most physical, athletic pg in the country is Evans (Memphis). He's as athletic as any point guard in the NBA. If you just could count on his outside shot, he'd be a shoe-in for the #1 pick, and a shoe in to be an All-Star, and a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame (maybe). But alas, it's an iffy proposition. I don't like his shooting motion - too much arm, too little wrist. Trying to figure out if a guy can become a good outside shooter has got to be the most difficult challenge of being a scout. If you can figure that out, you're in the Hall of Fame in the scouting world. At this point, I feel more comfortable in saying that Terrance Williams will become a good outside shooter than I do Evans.

 

[Kingster]

I didn't see the Wake game because they were showing other ones, but yeah, Teague's fade down the stretch really gives me pause.

But it's also important to note that Dino Gaudio took the ball out of Teague's hands and they started going downhill. Gaudio really should be fired. He's terrible. No team with three NBA lottery picks should be that bad, particularly this season.

Agreed. He's the type of coach who's a great recruiter, lousy teacher.

 

[SacKings7]

If it's true that his full head and heart weren't in it, then I would say that he has to be just as much blamed. He is the leader of that team, and if he's not putting forth full effort - then the whole team suffers.

Yeah, I was referring more to their drop off in play since being #1. Teague didn't show up when they needed him, so yes he should shoulder some of the blame. I just think the coach needs to be blamed as well

 

[bajaden]

I just don't know how in the world we're going to be able to get Mills, unless Petrie changes his spots and does some trades on draft day.

I saw Isaiah Thomas play very well today for Washington. I can see why he was freshman of the year in the Pac 10. He's impressive, one to keep an eye on down the line (I doubt he comes out this year).

The most physical, athletic pg in the country is Evans (Memphis). He's as athletic as any point guard in the NBA. If you just could count on his outside shot, he'd be a shoe-in for the #1 pick, and a shoe in to be an All-Star, and a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame (maybe). But alas, it's an iffy proposition. I don't like his shooting motion - too much arm, too little wrist. Trying to figure out if a guy can become a good outside shooter has got to be the most difficult challenge of being a scout. If you can figure that out, you're in the Hall of Fame in the scouting world. At this point, I feel more comfortable in saying that Terrance Williams will become a good outside shooter than I do Evans.

Shooting is always a tough one to call. The thing I go by, is, that if said player is able to shoot fairly well with bad mechanics, then he probably can be turned into a better shooter down the road. If said player is a bad shooter with good to decent mechanics, then he's probably going to be a bad shooter down the road. There's always that thing called feel. Some players just don't have it, and never will. AKA Michael Smith etc... I have never liked shotput shooters.

Another pt guard to keep an eye on is Lucas out of Mich St. He's a fun player to watch. I don't think he's coming out either, and shouldn't..

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Agreed. He's the type of coach who's a great recruiter, lousy teacher.

Yeah, what I refer to as Lavin syndrome.

 

[ovrush]

Just figured I'd ask this here since a lot of you guys watch much much more college ball than I do. Is Cedric Jackson from Cleveland State not considered a legit prospect? I've watched both of Cleveland State's games in the tourney and I've been really impressed. At 6'3" he's tall enough and he's definitely athletic enough to play in the NBA. Apparently he was near the top in the NCAA in steals for the year.

I can't find him on any of the draft sites, however, so I'm guessing he may have just been playing over his head in the tourney?

 

[HighTopKicks]

Shooting is always a tough one to call. The thing I go by, is, that if said player is able to shoot fairly well with bad mechanics, then he probably can be turned into a better shooter down the road. If said player is a bad shooter with good to decent mechanics, then he's probably going to be a bad shooter down the road. There's always that thing called feel. Some players just don't have it, and never will. AKA Michael Smith etc... I have never liked shotput shooters.

Another pt guard to keep an eye on is Lucas out of Mich St. He's a fun player to watch. I don't think he's coming out either, and shouldn't..

What about AJ Price? He's having a great tournament, and is shooting well. Plus, last year he was one of the top PG prospects with a top assist to turnover ratio, before he tore his ACL. He's been projected as an early 2nd rounder, but could move up based on his performance.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Question about Mills: can he shoot? At all? And can he finish inside at the NBA level? Or will he even try? Quick and all that, but all he does in college is chuck three pointers, and not very accurately (like Donte a bit in that regard).

Question about Curry: can he run a structured offense? When you compare him to Bibby, Bibby isn't jsut a decent passing PG who can shoot, he's a decent passing PG who can shoot and who exels in set offenses. What gets so many college shooting stars in trouble (see Douby, Quincy, for classic illustration) is that they have been the stars in their college systems, and so allowed to run around willy nilly getting whatever shots they want whenever they want , instead of settling down and being disciplined about running offensive sets, which they'll have to do int he pros. Can Curry master pro sets and run an NBA offense in the haalfcourt? Or is he just a guy who thrives in a situation where he has the freedom of a Chris Paul, which he is not going to have at the next level? I have seen very little of him play, so the question is straight ratehr than loaded.

Agree totally about this. I've been asking myself these questions for the last year or so since he's been lighting it up in college. I dont really want Curry on the Kings, anyway...only because we have Kevin Martin, and Curry CANNOT, let me repeat, CANNOT be transformed into a PG, he's a shooter, point blank. Unless we trade Martin, we dont need Curry, we need a true PG, or a banger to block shots and grab an ish load of boards. No more 'tweener' experiments please.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Too bad Cole Aldrich isnt coming out(or hasnt said yet), what a MONSTER on the boards and in the paint! 20 rebounds/10 blocks in today's game! Dude is a beast!

edit: obviously not with the first pick, but wouldnt mind getting him with our 2nd 1st rounder.

 

[vikinginferno]

Too bad Cole Aldrich isnt coming out(or hasnt said yet), what a MONSTER on the boards and in the paint! 20 rebounds/10 blocks in today's game! Dude is a beast!

edit: obviously not with the first pick, but wouldnt mind getting him with our 2nd 1st rounder.

He wouldn't drop that far and I doubt he would be better than Spencer Hawes, maybe a bit better at rebounding but Spencer is better otherwise.

 

[Hallama]

Very disappointed in Harden's performance. He just didn't rise to the occasion in either of his tourney games.

He is a very good basketball player, but you have to wonder why he didn't show more fire this (long) weekend.

I'd move Thabeet ahead of him, following Griffin and Rubio. If Kings slip to pick 4 or 5, then Harden is a bargain.

 

[Hallama]

Too bad Cole Aldrich isnt coming out(or hasnt said yet), what a MONSTER on the boards and in the paint! 20 rebounds/10 blocks in today's game! Dude is a beast!

If he declares, he is a top 10 pick. NBA GMs will not pass on him. He was very impressive in the tourney so far. Yes, the teams he played against were smaller, but it's a good sign to see a guy dominate when he should.

Still amazed at Ben Woodside's performance in the Kansas game. Kansas had one of their quick guards on him plus they left Aldrich in the paint playing a one man zone. Woodside still sizzled them.

 

[Henkel]

Harden also put up a terrible performance against USC in the pac ten tournament. Its hard to tell whether the pressure affected him or he just went into a slump at the wrong time of year. I have been a big supporter of Harden, but while watching that temple game i did think to myself is Harden really 30 picks better then Dionte Christmas? Not sure if thats fair or if its more of a reflection on Christmas rather then Harden.

I agree Aldrich is looking like a lotto pick in this draft. Big mens stock always rise as the draft approaches, and a strong tourney run will help as well. I don't think Aldrich is going to set the world on fire at the next level but he is a legit shot blocker and rebounder. Although not quite the athlete he could have a impact similar to Przybilla for some team.

 

[asakkings]

A slump would be if he shot really poor but was hustling, he's just was not putting forth a solid effort in the biggest games of the season, something else must be wrong.

 

[nbrans]

Harden's situation is pretty simple: he struggled consistently, all season, whenever he was guarded by someone who was both bigger and more athletic than he was, whether that was Landry Fields, Daniel Hackett, Dionte Christmas, or facing Syracuse's athletic zone.

I really don't see how he could be more than an NBA roleplayer at best, considering that he's going to be going up against guys who are bigger and more athletic than him every night.

 

[Henkel]

Harden's situation is pretty simple: he struggled consistently, all season, whenever he was guarded by someone who was both bigger and more athletic than he was, whether that was Landry Fields, Daniel Hackett, Dionte Christmas, or facing Syracuse's athletic zone.

I really don't see how he could be more than an NBA roleplayer at best, considering that he's going to be going up against guys who are bigger and more athletic than him every night.

Hackett really shut him down all year, but to be fair Christmas didn't really shut him down. Temple Hedged on every screen and backed off him and made him be a jump shooter, and he wasn't effect with his outside shot. Also Syracuse's zone is probable the best in the nation. With that said you do have a point.

Great college guards see tough defenses that are geared to stop them. Some of the great college guards can shoot over them if the offense system is designed to get them open, think Adam Morrison, Redick, ext. The great college guards who also make great pro guards find a way to get inside even when teams are clogging the lane. Wade in college was by far the most talent player on his team and a average shooter. Teams naturally geared them selfs to keep him out side but in the end they couldn't. Harden as a college player thrives on offense by going to the basket and getting to the line or finishing at the rim. I think Harden finishes really well for a guy with his athleticism and i expect him to keep that up, but he doesn't have a great first step. You can't finish if you can't get to the lane in the first place. Anyways I'm rambling, the point i am trying to make is perhaps Harden has become a bit overrated. Comparing him to a player like Brandon Roy was a mistake, he doesn't have a great first step or a post up game, so getting inside could be tough for him. I do think he is a NBA player, too smart and skilled to not find a role at the next level but a star/top5 pick? I wouldn't count on it.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Mills and Curry going at it right now on ESPN2 .. real fun game to watch and both stars are performing well.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

Patrick Mills is such a petire guy. 19pts 7asts 7-16 fg, his threes are not falling 1-7, 4-4 ft.


Chris Mullen is there......prob scouting curry.


Mills are Kmart.....would be SICK.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Patrick Mills is such a petire guy. 19pts 7asts 7-16 fg, his threes are not falling 1-7, 4-4 ft.


Chris Mullen is there......prob scouting curry.


Mills are Kmart.....would be SICK.

I would actually prefer Curry

Anyone who says he cant pass hasnt seen him play, he is setting up players left and right. Too bad his big men are terrible.

Curry is there whole team and he is playing like a warrior tonight.


EDIT: Currys line with 4 mins left.

24 points, 10-24 shooting on 4-9 3pt, 9REB, and 5 ASST