and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
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What? A Steve nash or JOhn Stockton are EASILY number 1 players They make other players great. You should be thinking the other way around. Without Nash, Amare would not be an All-Star. Karl is different story, but he probably would not have been as great as he was. If Rubio turneed to be one of those guys, draft is a success.
Gotta love this UCLA/VCU game. Jrue Holiday doesn't play point the entire season and he has to play it down the stretch against Eric Maynor in the first round of the tournament. Looking a little shaky but making the big plays.
I don't know who I'd rather have between Collison and Maynor. Maynor is bigger and quicker, and that extra athleticism will go a long way in the NBA, but his outside shooting is shaky and he's really more of a combo guard. Collison is just more solid with his outside shooting and passing and better defense, but maybe doesn't have as much potential.
I'd take either with Houston's pick and be reasonably happy.
I don't know who I'd rather have between Collison and Maynor. Maynor is bigger and quicker, and that extra athleticism will go a long way in the NBA, but his outside shooting is shaky and he's really more of a combo guard. Collison is just more solid with his outside shooting and passing and better defense, but maybe doesn't have as much potential.
I'd take either with Houston's pick and be reasonably happy.
Does it concern you at all that every time Collison faces a quality big pg he has trouble on the offensive end?
I like Maynor more. Not sure if he is really a pg but he is big, aggressive and finds a way to get into the lane. Collisons slow release coupled with inability to finish makes me wonder if he has much of a future at the next level.
I like Maynor more. Not sure if he is really a pg but he is big, aggressive and finds a way to get into the lane. Collisons slow release coupled with inability to finish makes me wonder if he has much of a future at the next level.
I was pretty impressed with Holiday today, he actually showed way better ball handling than I hvae seen from him all year. It was probably becaues VCU was full coart pressing him and he was able to get into a little more open court situations. He also had a good lefty layup but alot of his layups ended up rolling out. I hope he stays next year I think he can make a vast improvment in his stock.
I am on the Eric Maynor bandwagon for our houston pick if we don't get Rubio in the draft. Damn I miss the game vs UCLA. I was expecting an upset but was totally satisfied with the outcome last position on VCU with the ball on Maynor. This kid is very clutch. If he hit that shot, his stock may totally skyrocket in this draft. But since he missed it, I think he'll still be reacheable with our Houston pick! 
The thing about Collison and Maynor that I think puts them ahead of Flynn/Mills/Lawson is that they are properly sized for the PG position. It's extremely, extremely difficult to make it as a sub 6'0'' PG in the NBA, to the point that people sometimes forget how rare it is. Brevin Knight, TJ Ford, Nate Robinson.... and that's basically it. And those three guys have freakish quickness. Flynn/Mills/Lawson are athletic, but I don't think they're at that level.
Curry is obviously properly sized, but the question mark is his athleticism. I am more convinced after this season that he can survive as an athletically challenged but savvy-enough point guard to make it in the NBA, but he's undoubtedly going to be picked between the Kings' two picks, so he's someone else's gamble.
Curry is obviously properly sized, but the question mark is his athleticism. I am more convinced after this season that he can survive as an athletically challenged but savvy-enough point guard to make it in the NBA, but he's undoubtedly going to be picked between the Kings' two picks, so he's someone else's gamble.
The guy in Orlando and the one in NO beg to differ. I'd rather take a shot at Mills anyday over Collison or Curry. If one guy is 5'11" and the other guy is 6'1" it doesn't mean much at pg. I think the workouts that Mills does for teams is going to be more important for him than most guys who play against big competition in college.
Some people would say that Amare has Nash, and Malone had Stockton. If by number one guy you mean offensive scoring, then I agree. But there's not doubt that Stockton or Nash would have great careers without either of those guys. There simply would have been someone else's name next to theirs.
If the Kings end up with Rubio and he turns out to be either Nash or Stockton, I'll be estactic, and the Kings will be one step closer to being able to compete for a championship.
If the Kings end up with Rubio and he turns out to be either Nash or Stockton, I'll be estactic, and the Kings will be one step closer to being able to compete for a championship.
Well, Paul is a solid 6'0" and yeah, Jameer Nelson is another example of a sub 6'0" guy who made it. In fact, he's probably the best comparison to Flynn, although Nelson is a better outside shooter.
But inches do matter at every position, PG included. It's often the difference between a little guy who can finish inside and get midrange shots vs. someone who is basically restricted to the perimeter.
But inches do matter at every position, PG included. It's often the difference between a little guy who can finish inside and get midrange shots vs. someone who is basically restricted to the perimeter.
Nobody thought Nelson would become so good. I remember him at St. Joseph's with Delonte when they were going for the undefeated season, and a knock on him was his streaky shooting - somehow he turned that into a strenght. Basically, if you're short in stature, you better be fearless (TJ Ford, but then be carefull since banging against way bigger guys in the air does not end well), a great shooter (somehow, Nelson, but to be fair he is a solid ball handler and sees the floor farely well, is also helped by above average players at every positions except maybe SG) or just otherwordly like Paul. Alston does not really count for me, he's a very average shooter, not exactly something to write home about.
The post I was responding to said that Rubio is a #1 impact guy. What I was pointing out is that, while a quality PG may be an essential part of a winning basketball team, you still need a franchise player to make it work. The best setup guy in the world is only as good as the other players he's setting up. If Nash and Stockton have no one to pass to, the team still isn't going to win. Jason Kidd couldn't win a championship because his teammates were never good enough. Chris Paul's team won't win a championship until they acquire a franchise calibre big man or David West/Tyson Chandler become one. Nash never won a championship. Stockton never won a championship (though he probably would have if not for Jordan). If we come out of this draft with Rubio we're instantly a much better team, there might not be another player in this draft who will make a bigger impact right away for this team, as desperate as it is for a good PG, but we'd still be looking for that #1 impact guy. We'd still be a true franchise player short of any legitimate championship aspirations.
I wasn't saying pass on Rubio. I was justing trying to temper expectations a bit. Even if all the Rubio hype is true, he's a complimentary type of player not a franchise guy. And I'd say that of even the best PGs. Chris Paul is the only thing close to a franchise player at the PG position and that's because he's absolutely ridiculously once in a lifetime good. And even he can't do it by himself.
I wasn't saying pass on Rubio. I was justing trying to temper expectations a bit. Even if all the Rubio hype is true, he's a complimentary type of player not a franchise guy. And I'd say that of even the best PGs. Chris Paul is the only thing close to a franchise player at the PG position and that's because he's absolutely ridiculously once in a lifetime good. And even he can't do it by himself.
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Up until about the last two seasons, Nelson wasn't considered to be very good. Orlando stuck with him because he was a mature leader on and off the floor (organizing group workout sessions, and other things in the off-season). It wasn't until Hedo stepped his game up that took pressure off Nelson to be the end all creator for the team.
Yeah, but nobody in their right mind would ever call Kobe pass-first. Lebron averages 7 assists per game this season but when his team is down by two points you know he's taking the shot. #1 impact guys can get their points with the game on the line no matter who is guarding them. Are you willing to put Ricky Rubio in the same category as those guys? He doesn't have the athleticism, the strength, or even the skill level to assert himself offensively. The only reason Chris Paul is in the discussion is because he shoots a ridiculously high percentage from the field along with being the best ball thief in basketball and putting up around 10 assists per game with only 1 or 2 turnovers. It's hard to imagine a PG being better than Chris Paul and his team is probably not going to make it out of the first round this year.
If you want to split hairs, no single player in the league can do it by themself. But there's a hierarchy of importance. You don't build a team around Tony Parker, you build a team arond Tim Duncan. Tony Parker is important, but not nearly as important as your post scorer and interior defender. The Kings were a championship contender while they had Webber. Once Webber was gone, we weren't a legitimate contender anymore even with the supporting cast intact. Bibby was one of the best young PGs in the league when he signed his extension. Take away Webber and he became a costly extravangance on a losing team even as he put up 40 point games. Yes we need a PG badly, but more than anything we need a dominant player to establish an identity. If you ask me, it's wishful thinking that Rubio or any other PG prospect will be that player.
If you want to split hairs, no single player in the league can do it by themself. But there's a hierarchy of importance. You don't build a team around Tony Parker, you build a team arond Tim Duncan. Tony Parker is important, but not nearly as important as your post scorer and interior defender. The Kings were a championship contender while they had Webber. Once Webber was gone, we weren't a legitimate contender anymore even with the supporting cast intact. Bibby was one of the best young PGs in the league when he signed his extension. Take away Webber and he became a costly extravangance on a losing team even as he put up 40 point games. Yes we need a PG badly, but more than anything we need a dominant player to establish an identity. If you ask me, it's wishful thinking that Rubio or any other PG prospect will be that player.
Temple really focused on slowing Harden down today. He didn't have a good game but at the same time he didn't force it.
Dionte Christmas is a guy i would look at in the second round. Doesn't shoot a great percentage but a lot of that has to do with how much of the offensive load he has to carry for Temple. Has NBA range and some passing ability. Not a great ball handler but like Morrow or Kover he has enough to complement his shooting ability. The Kings have so many holes that spending a early 2nd round pick on a back up shooting guard may not be the way to go but the kids got talent for where he is projected to go in the draft.
Dionte Christmas is a guy i would look at in the second round. Doesn't shoot a great percentage but a lot of that has to do with how much of the offensive load he has to carry for Temple. Has NBA range and some passing ability. Not a great ball handler but like Morrow or Kover he has enough to complement his shooting ability. The Kings have so many holes that spending a early 2nd round pick on a back up shooting guard may not be the way to go but the kids got talent for where he is projected to go in the draft.