Draft position thread

F

fnordius

All-Star
#331
#331
Bricklayer said:
As mentioned -- do not underestimate the T-Wolves. If we go on a fool's quest here, they are still capable of biting us.
Click to expand...
They are back on the list for that reason, they're giving Brian Cardinal and Bobby Brown too many minutes to not take them seriously.

I had a fw extra minutes on my hands, so did a little calculating to elaborate on the earlier discussion... all ground that Brick's gone over before, but it's another year, and we have some new people here, so...

All Stars by draft position, 1980-2005

1st-5th: 61 (47% were AS)
6th-10th: 25 (19.2%)
11th-15th: 16 (12.3%)
16th-20th: 16 (12.3%)
21st-30th: 14 (5.4%)
31st-40th: 8 (3.1%)
41st-50th: 5 (1.9%)
51st-80th: 4 (less than 1%, but most years didn't have 80 picks, so hard to say offhand)
Undrafted: 2 (0.38% if we assume 20 undrafted guys every year)

Although there's a bit of a plateau from 11th to 20th, the message is pretty clear.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#337
#337
Minnesota has no shame with regard to tanking. Remember when they "rested" Garnett for two weeks? I wouldn't be surprised if they're starting Telfair at C by the end of the season.
 
jalfa

jalfa

Starter
#338
#338
hrdboild said:
Minnesota has no shame with regard to tanking. Remember when they "rested" Garnett for two weeks? I wouldn't be surprised if they're starting Telfair at C by the end of the season.
Click to expand...
What I vividly remember is the T-Wolves having Mark bloody Madsen jack up threepointers in their final game one season, in order to avoid a tie-breaker of some sort. This moment is most definitely my favourite in the whole history of tanking. It had a certain style that, for instance, sitting Dwyane Wade and Shawn Marion for the last few weeks of last season had not (as they were both main players on my fantasy squad at the time).
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#339
#339
jalfa said:
What I vividly remember is the T-Wolves having Mark bloody Madsen jack up threepointers in their final game one season, in order to avoid a tie-breaker of some sort.
Click to expand...
Having scored a total of 4 points in all of Oct-Feb, Madsen has gotten enough PT in March to up his total to 6 points for the season... he was needed, for example, in the recent GSW game, when there was a risk of wosing.

After breaking the 10 minute mark in only 2 games during Oct-Dec, and riding the pine through 16 of them, 32 year old Brian Cardinal is getting a lot of PT as well... since Jefferson's injury (early Feb) he's been averaging over 15 minutes a game. Creaky old Jason Collins started getting a lot of PT at the same point. That's like giving 15 minutes a game to KT, and another 10 to Calvin Booth.

We seriously ought to do likewise. One KT deserves another.
 
Last edited:
F

fnordius

All-Star
#341
#341
hrdboild said:
Circle your calendars now: April 15th at Minnesota to close out the season is going to be one for the ages.
Click to expand...
Kinda like the 4th quarter of the OKC game? I don't think I've ever seen 20 turnovers in a quarter before...

Yet in the end, no matter how many times OKC threw the ball away, WE TRIUMPHED! YEAH!!!

1. Sac 14-50 .219
2. Was 15-49 .234
3. LAC 15-48 .238
4. Mem 16-46 .258
5. OKC 18-46 .281
6. Min 18-45 .286
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#342
#342
Today's games (by the teams that count, the linningest ones) are far enough along that I think I can safely post the rankings as of tonight. The good news: Minny played Memphis, and one of them had to wose. Minny may drop back off my list at this rate, they're a hair below 30% now, a place which I doubt the Kings will be visiting this year.

1. Sac 14-50 .219
2. Was 15-50 .231
3. LAC 15-49 .234
4. Mem 16-47 .254
5. OKC 18-47 .277
6. Min 19-45 .297
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#343
#343
No real news today, every team that was supposed to wose wost, with the sole exception of GSW vs Dallas, but who cares? Mediocre teams like those are of no concern to us.

But HOLY COW, was that a scary game in Arco, or what? Whatever got into the Kings last night, I hope they save it all up for Lakers games, or for a different season. Only 17 games left, c'mon you guys...

1. Sac 14-51 .215
2. Was 15-51 .227
3. LAC 15-49 .234
4. Mem 16-48 .250
5. OKC 18-47 .277
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#344
#344
fnordius said:
No real news today, every team that was supposed to wose wost, with the sole exception of GSW vs Dallas, but who cares? Mediocre teams like those are of no concern to us.

But HOLY COW, was that a scary game in Arco, or what? Whatever got into the Kings last night, I hope they save it all up for Lakers games, or for a different season. Only 17 games left, c'mon you guys...

1. Sac 14-51 .215
2. Was 15-51 .227
3. LAC 15-49 .234
4. Mem 16-48 .250
5. OKC 18-47 .277
Click to expand...
I think OKC is out of it. They are head and shoulders better than the Kings, regardless of schedule considerations. When Durant comes back they'll be loong gone. So, worst possible case is the Kings pick #7, which in this draft could be like picking #1.
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#345
#345
Kingster said:
I think OKC is out of it. They are head and shoulders better than the Kings, regardless of schedule considerations. When Durant comes back they'll be loong gone. So, worst possible case is the Kings pick #7, which in this draft could be like picking #1.
Click to expand...
Compared to other drafts, it could be like picking #25
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#346
#346
Kingster said:
I think OKC is out of it. They are head and shoulders better than the Kings, regardless of schedule considerations. When Durant comes back they'll be loong gone.
Click to expand...
I agree, they're playing the Suns at Phoenix tonight, and there have been about 15 lead changes. Middle of the 4th, and it could go either way. Not like a Kings road game.
Kingster said:
So, worst possible case is the Kings pick #7, which in this draft could be like picking #1.
Click to expand...
Err, like the pick we'd get if we were the #1 team in the NBA, I assume? If that was what you meant, I agree. Many years I'd be fairly content with the 7th pick, but not this year.

If what you mean is that this year's pick is going to be all guesswork, I'd agree to some extent, but would still vastly prefer Petrie having the first guess.

Well, looks like OKC is getting pummeled in the last 3 minutes of the game, so I can safely do rankings now.

Hey, Minny wost tonight, their 20th! At .303, I think they fall off the list again. Look for OKC to be next. The others will probably stick around 'til the bitter end.

1. Sac 14-51 .215
2. Was 15-51 .227
3. LAC 15-50 .231
4. Mem 16-48 .250
5. OKC 18-48 .273
 
Last edited:
F

fnordius

All-Star
#348
#348
nebs said:
You just know we are gonna get some late season Wosses and choke away our draft position.
Click to expand...
Well, you know, when the franchise is the worst in the NBA, likely to move, and really has no prospects for improvement through the FA market, fans are going to look to the relatively feasible avenues for some sort of hope. Those would be: some blockbuster trade in which Geoff robs one or more teams blind (highly unlikely), or improvement through the draft (likely). Now, I really DON'T think that we're about to draft some LeBron type that will singlehandedly carry the franchise for a decade, but I think we will get some help, and we'll probably keep sucking enough to get some more help next year.

Maybe we won't get the #1 spot, or the #1 pick, but I have to hope that we'll do well. Otherwise, I'm kind of forced to give up on this franchise, aren't I? I'm hoping that the owners/FO are feeling the same way. Maybe they will overcome the urge for more pointless and self-destructive wosses at the end of the season this year. Even some of the most hardcore homers at KF have come to see the light this year, maybe the Maloofs can too. One can only hope.

And, even if we do the totally boneheaded last-second rally thing again this year, odds of our getting worse than the #4 spot are decreasing. That means somewhere in the 1-6 range, or pick #7 if we have truly horrible luck (only a 1.2% chance if we are the 4th worst team, zero chance if we're #3 or above). The 4th worst team still has about a 40% chance of a top-3 pick. While those aren't the odds that I want, I won't have a nervous breakdown if that's what we get. With another couple of wosses by OKC and Minnesota, that might soon be be our worst-case scenario.

So... keep your fingers crossed, pet your lucky rabbit's foot, carry your mojo hand, eat garlic soup or whatever, but... I'm sure that we'll come out of this with a better team. Not a GREAT team, but a better team. And I've gotta keep hoping, because that's all we have to go on.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#349
#349
fnordius said:
Well, you know, when the franchise is the worst in the NBA, likely to move, and really has no prospects for improvement through the FA market, fans are going to look to the relatively feasible avenues for some sort of hope.
Click to expand...
While I liked the rest of your post, the part I've bolded above is simply NOT CORRECT.

1. "When the franchise is the worst in the NBA"... nope, not by a long shot. The team may be currently worst in the league but the franchise itself is nowhere near as bad as some others. Look at the Clippers. That's a franchise perpetually in crisis, even if they are in LA. Our owners are (finally) committed to rebuilding, they're being very open about making changes to help make it easier for fans to attend the games, and they're
among the most passionate owners in the league. Things could be a lot, lot, lot worse.

2. "likely to move"...POSSIBLE but nowhere near likely, especially with the positive steps being taken lately. It doesn't always have to be about the team moving. Personally, I tend to resent seeing that old saw constantly being brought into discussions because it sends the message that we, the fans, have no faith in our management/owners. And that's the one message we DO NOT want to send. Why? Because if they end up believing it then we've lost them. Kings fans do not need to be throwing in the towel on the moving issue.

Other than that, I think you made some good points. But if you say you'll give up on the franchise if the draft pick doesn't end up being a franchise player, or whatever point you were making, that's your choice. Giving up is a personal choice but I don't see the Maloofs making that choice in the near future. Their passion for the team is one of the forces that drive them.
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#350
#350
VF21 said:
While I liked the rest of your post, the part I've bolded above is simply NOT CORRECT.

1. "When the franchise is the worst in the NBA"... nope, not by a long shot. The team may be currently worst in the league but the franchise itself is nowhere near as bad as some others.
Click to expand...
The Clippers have an owner who doesn't care how the team does, because he makes money even when they suck (which is all the time). Some other teams, like Memphis and Charlotte, are both losing money and lack talent, a lot like us, with some questionable cost cutting and intervention by owners, again, like us. Others have cause for hope. Washington, for example, gets a great draft pick, plus they have Arenas, Haywood and Thomas coming back next year. That's a very nice thought for the fans of a team that may end up with a 66-16 record.

While "currently worst in the league" may be a passing thing (we've moved up to 29th place in the power ratings, yay!), we are still suffering from something that even the Clippers aren't: lack of developed or proven talent. They have Baron Davis, plus Camby, Randolph and Kaman who they could always trade if they wanted to. We have no prospects of being saved by a big trade. We have no cash reserves, and the FA market has been pretty poor for several years. We have youngsters who we hope will work out, and we have the draft. That was kind of my point. Barring some ridiculous stroke of luck, rescue will have to come from the draft, and from developing the players that we have.
VF21 said:
2. "likely to move"...POSSIBLE but nowhere near likely
Click to expand...
I meant "likely" relative to other franchises. I'm not saying that the chances are 50-50, or even 20-80, but it still weighs on my mind at times. Doesn't it for you? And that's what I'm talking about... mood, and trying to find things to be optimistic about. It's unfortunate that it's even a topic for discussion.

VF21 said:
But if you say you'll give up on the franchise if the draft pick doesn't end up being a franchise player, or whatever point you were making, that's your choice.
Click to expand...
That wasn't my point at all, I'm not ready to swear that there is even one franchise player in this draft. There will be an All Star or two, but that might be it. So I surely won't give up if we don't draft a 20-10 player this year.

Even if the FO screw up and let us have some last-second woss rally, it can't get TOO bad, a top 5 pick would still be very likely. If we end up 4th worst at the end, the pingpong balls might yet give us #1 or #2, and I'd be happy as a clam.

If we can't lin our way through the last 16 games, the draft still gives us reason for hope. That was my point.
 
Last edited:
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#351
#351
The whole thing, at least as far as #1, is semantics. I guess I didn't clarify myself about that. You're using "franchise" as interchangable with "team" whereas I look at "franchise" as meaning the whole package, including team, owners, staff, etc.

On the rest, I think we're pretty much in agreement if I quit picking at those enticing nits.

:p

Oops. Almost missed the question:

I meant "likely" relative to other franchises. I'm not saying that the chances are 50-50, or even 20-80, but it still weighs on my mind at times. Doesn't it for you? And that's what I'm talking about... mood, and trying to find things to be optimistic about. It's unfortunate that it's even a topic for discussion.
Click to expand...
Does it weigh on my mind? Nope, because I don't let it. I'll believe they're going to stay until the moving truck runs over me as I try to prevent them from actually leaving, if and when it comes to that.

I've heard many times that one of the biggest problems the Maloofs have had to face is the media pouring oil on the fires, so to speak, and making it seem like all they've ever wanted to do was move the team, when it wasn't something they wanted and isn't something they're even seriously considering at this point in time.

Yes, it's possible they might have to actively consider it at some point down the road, but we haven't reached that fork yet so deciding which way to go might end up being totally and completely irrelevant.

Right now, the Maloofs are doing everything they can to overcome some of the Bee propaganda that talks about their hidden desires, etc. I'm going to support them in that endeavor any way I can.
 
Last edited:
S

sactownfan

Guest
#359
#359
Alright Clippers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow !

Solid Night For The Kings Draft Hopes!

i actually live in LB and was watching it... wow i forget what its like to jump up and cheer for a win!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.