Rubio renegotiating buyout may enter in 2009

[Spike]

Obi Wan died before the movie was over.

He did OK in the clone wars. He also died near the end of his life, unlike Mace Windu, who was taken too soon.


Back to Rubio:


YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES.

I'll take an ever-developing Rubio at 18 (18!)than whomever we're putting out of college with that top 3 pick. He will definitely bring interest and excitement.

 

[Kingzrool]

Using a top 3 pick on Rubio would be a giant mistake. If you look back on the draft 10 yrs from now, Rubio will not be the top three guys from any draft.

It must be handy having that crystal ball. Hey, when is the stock Market going back up?

 

[nbrans]

I know you're not high on him and I don't want to start another endless debate, but you're holding Rubio to a higher standard than the players you mentioned. Lopez, IMO, sucks. He can't even be compared to Rubio. Navorro is a SG in a PG body. He is a good scorer but that's it. He was always going to struggle in the NBA without a real position. His handle and passing ability isn't even on the same charts as Rubio. As well as that, Navarro is 28. That's 10 years older than Rubio, who BTW, I don't think was outplayed. Spain were much better when Rubio was on the floor. And since people want to judge him by his stats during the olympics, heres one; Rubio and LeBron had identical stats in the championship game except for one category. LeBron had 6 points more (if I remember correctly), everything else was even in the same amount of minutes (I believe Ricky played one more minute), but LeBron had one more TO. I guess LeBron isn't one of the greatest players in the world.

I'm not basing any of my observations on stats, but from how they looked in the game. Regardless of how many points he scored, there's no way in a million years I would have come away from that game thinking that Rubio and LeBron have equal abilities because they had similar stats.

Regardless of Navarro's skills, he looked quicker than Rubio and influenced the gold medal game much more. I'm not saying we should go sign Navarro, but rather just pointing out that that Navarro had trouble in the NBA in part because he wasn't quick enough -- and yet looked quicker to me than Rubio.

Unless Rubio is getting quicker as he ages (which I suppose is possible, but not usually how it works), he's going to have problems in the NBA.

 

[beb0p]

It must be handy having that crystal ball. Hey, when is the stock Market going back up?

That's a trade secret, my man.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I hope I didn't suffer through this miserable season just to see us draft the next Mark Jackson. Oh lord.

You mean Mark Jackson, the guy who is #2 behind Stockton in all-time NBA assists? Yeah, I'd hate to have a guy like that on MY team.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

I don't get this Rubio hype. He's about on par with Bobby Hurley at the same age.

Using a top 3 pick on Rubio would be a giant mistake. If you look back on the draft 10 yrs from now, Rubio will not be the top three guys from any draft.

I hope I didn't suffer through this miserable season just to see us draft the next Mark Jackson. Oh lord.

yeah it sure would be horrible to draft the guy who has had more assists than everyone to ever play the game not named John Stockton. are you serious?

 

[rainmaker]

I don't get this Rubio hype. He's about on par with Bobby Hurley at the same age.

Using a top 3 pick on Rubio would be a giant mistake. If you look back on the draft 10 yrs from now, Rubio will not be the top three guys from any draft.

I hope I didn't suffer through this miserable season just to see us draft the next Mark Jackson. Oh lord.

And how do you know this? I guess your prediction is right, and all the basketball experts here and in Europe who say Rubio is the best pg prospect to ever come out of Europe are wrong. He might not be John Stockton, but he isn't Beno Udrih either.

 

[beb0p]

You mean Mark Jackson, the guy who is #2 behind Stockton in all-time NBA assists? Yeah, I'd hate to have a guy like that on MY team.

That's because Mark played into his 50s. He's actually behind Kevin Porter if you go by the APG, which is by far the truer indicator.

If you think Mark Jackson warrants a top 3 pick, then it says more about you than it does me.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

That's because Mark played into his 50s. He's actually behind Kevin Porter if you go by the APG, which is by far the truer indicator.

If you think Mark Jackson warrants a top 3 pick, then it says more about you than it does me.

yeah i would agree with that statement. in a draft with no lock to be an all star, i think the fan that would be accepting of a guy that would be 2nd all time in assists would be warranted in that stance.

 

[beb0p]

And how do you know this? I guess your prediction is right, and all the basketball experts here and in Europe who say Rubio is the best pg prospect to ever come out of Europe are wrong.

And the experts said Nickoloz Tskitishvili was supposed to be the next Dirk and Bobby Hurley was the next great thing. Your point?

He might not be John Stockton, but he isn't Beno Udrih either.

I think we ought to have higher standards. Do you?

 

[beb0p]

yeah i would agree with that statement. in a draft with no lock to be an all star, i think the fan that would be accepting of a guy that would be 2nd all time in assists would be warranted in that stance.

That's the mentality that got the Hawks Shelden Williams.

But hey,to each his own.

 

[nbrans]

I'll jump to beb0p's defense on the Mark Jackson comparison -- Jackson is basically the poster child for how the game has changed in the past 10 years, and particularly the PG spot. There's no way Jackson could step in to today's NBA without getting absolutely destroyed on defense. In his era it was ok to be a slow point guard who could pass. Not anymore.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

That's the mentality that got the Hawks Shelden Williams.

But hey,to each his own.

he averaged 10 and 8 for his career to 2.4 turnovers!! in his prime he averaged upward of 11 assists.. would you really be opposed to that? and if so who would be your other option in this draft?

 

[beb0p]

he averaged 10 and 8 for his career to 2.4 turnovers!! in his prime he averaged upward of 11 assists.. would you really be opposed to that? and if so who would be your other option in this draft?

Huh, yes. If the Kings use the top 3 pick on a PG who gives us 10 and 8 then I'm afraid it's a screw up. There are other PGs in the draft who can give you similar production and they will be picked much lower than the top 3.

For my option, just read my sig.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I'm not basing any of my observations on stats, but from how they looked in the game. Regardless of how many points he scored, there's no way in a million years I would have come away from that game thinking that Rubio and LeBron have equal abilities because they had similar stats.

Regardless of Navarro's skills, he looked quicker than Rubio and influenced the gold medal game much more. I'm not saying we should go sign Navarro, but rather just pointing out that that Navarro had trouble in the NBA in part because he wasn't quick enough -- and yet looked quicker to me than Rubio.

Unless Rubio is getting quicker as he ages (which I suppose is possible, but not usually how it works), he's going to have problems in the NBA.

I know you're not, I wasn't saying that. Again, my post was general, I probably should have seperated that part from the part aimed at you. I've seen some people on here mention his stats, I didn't mean you did it.

The LeBron thing was just to show looks can be decieving, obviously I, in no way, think Rubio will be as good as LeBron.

Again, you are saying a seasoned pro at 28 played better than an 18 year old. I don't get it. And Navarro may have struggled in the NBA, but he did OK in the final against the very best of the NBA. Anyone can have a good game. Unless you're saying Navarro would be consistently better than Rubio against team USA (which would be a contradiction since he struggled in the NBA).

Rubio will have adjusting to do, that's for sure. I'm not saying he will be a HOF'er. I do think, however, that he can bring excitement back to the franchise and be a great PG for the next decade +.

I don't get this Rubio hype. He's about on par with Bobby Hurley at the same age.

Using a top 3 pick on Rubio would be a giant mistake. If you look back on the draft 10 yrs from now, Rubio will not be the top three guys from any draft.

I hope I didn't suffer through this miserable season just to see us draft the next Mark Jackson. Oh lord.

Just curious, since you are such an expert on him. When have you seen him play, and against who? Or are you judging him as a 17 year old against the best players in the NBA (who half the NBA players would struggle playing against)? Even so, he still played pretty good and had no trouble cutting through team USA defense once and throwing some very nice passes.

I love how you talk nonsense about him but can't back ANY of it up. At least nbrans knows what he's talking about. You're just spouting your stereotypical Euro nonsense without ever having seen him play.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

Huh, yes. If the Kings use the top 3 pick on a PG who gives us 10 and 8 then I'm afraid it's a screw up. There are other PGs in the draft who can give you similar production and they will be picked much lower than the top 3.

For my option, just read my sig.

mind you it is a weak draft and he averaged 10 and 8 for his CAREER.. he was more of a 10-13 pt, 9-11 ast for the majority of his career.. either way, lets look at who averages 8 assists in the nba this year: paul, deron, nash, rondo, kidd, calderon, and baron davis.. pretty elite group my man. as far as james harden goes.. thats another story entirely. as far as this mark jackson thing goes, id take his career over what Harden's will most likely be.

 

[kennadog]

I think it's ungfair to use Bobby Hurley's BB career as a comparison for anything. We'll never know what his career would have looked like, if he hadn't had a near fatal car accident.

 

[beb0p]

Thanks nbrans.

My point is not to diss Rubio, he'll be a solid NBA player. But anyone expecting him to be a star is going to be disappointed. He does remind me of the old school PG: methodical, good at setting the pace but cannot take a team on his back. I suspect anyone who talked highly of Mark Jackson has never saw him play. Don't get me wrong, he was a useful player, but no team ever thought of him as a star, let alone a franchise player.

Any basement team better come out of the draft with a franchise player, otherwise it defeats the purpose of being a basement team. Anyone who thinks there isn't a franchise player in this draft, just remembers that every draft (except 2000) in the last two decades has at least one franchise player. If you settle for less, it'll come back to bite you.

 

[nbrans]

Again, you are saying a seasoned pro at 28 played better than an 18 year old. I don't get it. And Navarro may have struggled in the NBA, but he did OK in the final against the very best of the NBA. Anyone can have a good game. Unless you're saying Navarro would be consistently better than Rubio against team USA (which would be a contradiction since he struggled in the NBA).

I'm not saying that Navarro's better than Rubio or that I'd want him. I'm talking solely about their relative quickness. Navarro, to me, looked quicker than Rubio, and I find that extremely worrisome given Navarro's struggles in the NBA and particularly in the quickness department. I know they're completely different players and don't mean to draw too nuanced a comparison, but athletically I just worry about Rubio's quickness.

I agree he could bring excitement and what would hopefully be a contagious style, and if he's quicker than I think he is or is able to otherwise overcome it he could definitely succeed.

 

[beb0p]

Just curious, since you are such an expert on him. When have you seen him play, and against who? Or are you judging him as a 17 year old against the best players in the NBA (who half the NBA players would struggle playing against)? Even so, he still played pretty good and had no trouble cutting through team USA defense once and throwing some very nice passes.

I love how you talk nonsense about him but can't back ANY of it up. At least nbrans knows what he's talking about. You're just spouting your stereotypical Euro nonsense without ever having seen him play.

I love how you've already decided that I haven't seen hiim play.

And I love that you somehow know that I have a stereotypical Euro nonsense.

I have seen him played both at international and club levels. On nbatv and international channels both in the states and overseas. And the more I see him play, the less I like him. I'm not going to repeat what his weaknesses are, you guys know that already and you still like him. Fine.

But I suspect that if any of you watched him play as much as I did, your opinion would be similar to mine.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I'm not saying that Navarro's better than Rubio or that I'd want him. I'm talking solely about their relative quickness. Navarro, to me, looked quicker than Rubio, and I find that extremely worrisome given Navarro's struggles in the NBA and particularly in the quickness department. I know they're completely different players and don't mean to draw too nuanced a comparison, but athletically I just worry about Rubio's quickness.

I agree he could bring excitement and what would hopefully be a contagious style, and if he's quicker than I think he is or is able to otherwise overcome it he could definitely succeed.

That's fair enough, and I'm not without worry myself. I just believe the things he offers far outweighs what he doesn't.

Did you watch the videos I posted on the last page? He doesn't look slow in them, and never really pushes himself either. Not that it's going to change your mind, it's certainly not definitive.

BTW, I'm not trying to take credit for posting the above videos. Another guy did it in another thread, I just re-posted them.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

I love how you've already decided that I haven't seen hiim play.

And I love that you somehow know that I have a stereotypical Euro nonsense.

I have seen him played both at international and club levels. On nbatv and international channels both in the states and overseas. And the more I see him play, the less I like him. I'm not going to repeat what his weaknesses are, you guys know that already and you still like him. Fine.

But I suspect that if any of you watched him play as much as I did, your opinion would be similar to mine.

look this may be true on a personal level, but at the same time millions of other people including hundreds to thousands of scouts have seen him more than you have I'd presume and most of them seem to have a much higher opinion of him than you do.. so I'm going to have to say that on the whole, that statement is false.

 

[SkinnerBox]

He's not a top 3 pick based on his physical characteristics. Along with a great basketball IQ and creativity, I've heard his most defining characteristics are leadership and fierce competitiveness. To be defined that way at 17 is pretty impressive. Those are the kinds of things that can give a whole team a sense of identity and drive, and they're things we badly need right now.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I love how you've already decided that I haven't seen hiim play.

And I love that you somehow know that I have a stereotypical Euro nonsense.

I have seen him played both at international and club levels. On nbatv and international channels both in the states and overseas. And the more I see him play, the less I like him. I'm not going to repeat what his weaknesses are, you guys know that already and you still like him. Fine.

But I suspect that if any of you watched him play as much as I did, your opinion would be similar to mine.

I didn't decide anything, I simply asked you a question (which you decided to completely dodge). What games have you seen? I'm curious. I have seen Ricky play alot (I live in Europe). I'm 99% sure you haven't seen him play more than me.
I find it hard to believe that the more you see him the more you dislike. In fact, considering the improvement he consistently makes, it seems rather silly to like him less the more you see him. Defies any logic at all. You may not like him, but at least come up with something that's not completely ridiculous.

 

[nbrans]

That's fair enough, and I'm not without worry myself. I just believe the things he offers far outweighs what he doesn't.

Did you watch the videos I posted on the last page? He doesn't look slow in them, and never really pushes himself either. Not that it's going to change your mind, it's certainly not definitive.

BTW, I'm not trying to take credit for posting the above videos. Another guy did it in another thread, I just re-posted them.

Yeah, I did see them, there's one play in particular where he went after a ball on a fast break where he looked pretty fast. I found that encouraging, but unfortunately I don't get NBATV so I'm still stuck with those Olympics games in my head.

 

[beb0p]

mind you it is a weak draft and he averaged 10 and 8 for his CAREER.. he was more of a 10-13 pt, 9-11 ast for the majority of his career.. either way, lets look at who averages 8 assists in the nba this year: paul, deron, nash, rondo, kidd, calderon, and baron davis.. pretty elite group my man. as far as james harden goes.. thats another story entirely. as far as this mark jackson thing goes, id take his career over what Harden's will most likely be.

Ha. I like how you lump Paul, Deron, Nash, and Davis in there. Com'on, I suspect even Rubio lovers don't believe he'll be in those company in terms of offense.

So if being in the company of Rondo, an over-the-hill-Kidd, and Calderon warrants a top 3 pick to you; I have nothing to say.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

Ha. I like how you lump Paul, Deron, Nash, and Davis in there. Com'on, I suspect even Rubio lovers don't believe he'll be in those company in terms of offense.

So if being in the company of Rondo, an over-the-hill-Kidd, and Calderon warrants a top 3 pick to you; I have nothing to say.

i like how your main arguing style is to be apathetic. anyway, being 19 and being in the company of those three would be nice. no one knows how he'll translate, but all im saying is there is no one in this draft that definitively will translate better than him.. shoot the best player in this draft will probably be Mullens or Derozan but there is no way that theyre going top 5 (barring a turnaround in the tourney)

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I've felt for a while that if we get a top 3 pick Rubio is our best pick, though I wouldn't be opposed to trading down if we got the #1 and either picking Rubio at a later spot or one of the other top PGs around 5-10. Its not the safe pick but its the one that could probably pay the highest dividends, especially if you factor in that rookie PGs are always works in progress and so we'd be generating some excitement while still likely looking at a high draft pick in 2010 as well and if we get a guy that can make an immediate contribution at that point our PG will have a year under his belt already.

 

[beb0p]

I didn't decide anything, I simply asked you a question (which you decided to completely dodge). What games have you seen? I'm curious. I have seen Ricky play alot (I live in Europe). I'm 99% sure you haven't seen him play more than me.
I find it hard to believe that the more you see him the more you dislike. In fact, considering the improvement he consistently makes, it seems rather silly to like him less the more you see him. Defies any logic at all. You may not like him, but at least come up with something that's not completely ridiculous.

Fine, let's talk about the most recent one I saw, against I believe Tau, in what is the UEFA competition.

He had some nice showing early. But again, I was alarmed by his lack of speed and explosiveness. You've seen him before, you know what I'm talking about. 90% of the time when he went baseline he didnt even bother to look at the basket because he was looking to pass. When he tried to finish at the rim his vertical is like Brad Miller's. Plus, he doesn't have the body control or the touch to finish at odd angles so he's not a threat to score when he drives. Tau had that Brazilian dude in the paint and it really bothered Rubio. A few times when Rubio had a mismatch against a big man out in the perimeter he failed to get around the opponent and had to give up his dribble and passed it back. This is another thing I noticed - he gets cut off often, mainly due to a lack of speed. And to add insult to injury, Mastafa Sukur scored like 18pts in 20 mins against Rubio. In fact, watching Sukur and Rubio is like night and day. One has the athleticism to consistently explode to the rim over the earth-bound Juventut big men and the other is constantly fighting a losing battle against gravity. Remember, Sukur is no athletic freak and Rubio couldn't even handle that. Finally, with Juventut in a funk offensively, the great PG not only couldn't direct the team into proper spacing, he was part of the problem with unforced TOs, not recognizing mismatches, and deferring too much to his teammates. In fact, the coach took Rubio out and inserted some small quick American player to try to quicken the pace and to match Tau's speed in the backcourt. I think that's telling too.

Now, I'm not saying Rubio sucks. That's not what I'm saying. But I am saying keep the expectation real.

 

[Spike]

Ha. I like how you lump Paul, Deron, Nash, and Davis in there. Com'on, I suspect even Rubio lovers don't believe he'll be in those company in terms of offense.

If you look at it in terms of leadership, I'd say the comparison fits. We need someone who knows how to run a team, like Paul, like Nash. Everything I see leads me to believe that Rubio can eventually fill that role. 8-10 ast per game? That's pretty solid if you ask me. It seems to me as if we're judging him as a finished product, when he's got so much to learn. What would he be like after a year w/ Coachie?