and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

[hammystyle]

I hope Petrie's draft reflects Reynold's thinking - put the premium on quickness, not height. As Reynold's has said, and I agree, in the NBA it starts with the quickness advantage in matchups, then you go from there. Thabeet is the least quick player in the top 10. All the more reason to choose somebody else.

You can't just put the premium on quickness. It has to be length plus quickness. No one has won any titles with quick 6'9" and 6'10" guys down low. They all had 7 footers. BTW KG is 7'. Just listing the recent contenders' postmen Ilgauskas, Gasol, KG, Duncan, Rasheed Wallace, Shaq, Nowitzky, Smits, Ostertag, Longley...it goes on forever.

Thabeet may be the least quick player in the top 10, but he's also four inches taller than everybody else and the only 7 footer.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Almost anybody can be a bust in the NBA -- I remember in the early 90s when we picked up Dennis Hopson at the end of his short career after he was a bust as a high draft pick. I actually kind of liked his game, but he was still an NBA high lottery bust after averaging 29.0pts 8.2rebs 3.6ast and 2.2stl a game on 51.8% shooting as a senior at Ohio State -- a major school in a major conference. There are no, or very few, sure things.

I am with you on a large portion of your post, but this doesn't really resonate with me. Yes, any player can be a bust. Even a player with a great NBA body and skill set can develop durg/alcohol problems, have a questionable attitude, poor work ethic, injuries, etc.

However, there are certainly a number of profiles that raise red flags and the past should not be ignored when evaluating draft prospects. Saying let's ignore major red flags of one players, because of an anecdotal story about another bust isn't good reasoning.

Now Thabeet might become a very good pro for all the reasons you mentioned. However, if at the end of the season, the evidence points to another player being a better prospect, we shouldn't ignore that because of Dennis Hopson or similar stories.

 

[TTown Kings]

Been watching Thabeet as often as possible of late due to our draft position. He has looked better, but it's hard to get a read on him. Everytime he gets the ball in the post the other team doubles.

I watched the Georgetown game also. I wasn't aware of the stats but Monroe aboslutely owned him. I remember thinking Thabeet who? I want this guy. I hadn't even heard of him at that time.

 

[SacTownKid]

If by DESTROYED you mean that Monroe put up all of 16 points and 3 rebounds on 6-10 shooting (including two 3s, which Monroe doesn't hit consistently) in a game where Thabeet registered 7 blocked shots.... ok. Destroyed it is.

But I actually agree with you -- one of the important reasons Thabeet is going to need to improve his offense is so that he can make opposing coaches pay for going small against him. He's going to have to find ways to stay on the court even if he's matched up against a power forward if he's going to be more than a defensive roleplayer.

But one important thing ot keep in mind is that just about every team UConn has been going up against has been playing a zone specifically to collapse onto the post if Thabeet gets the ball, in order to make up for the height difference. That's not going to happen in the NBA, and Thabeet is going to have more room to operate offensively. He's already pretty good at sealing his defender with his size and drop stepping for the dunk, and I think he'll be able to make teams pay for trying to play smallball.

Actually, Monroe did get pretty close to doing just that. He was too skilled, too strong, and too quick for Thabeet. I watched that game multiple times and Monroe took it to him, no question about it. He didn't put up huge numbers but you could see he was making Thabeet very uncomfortable on both ends.

 

[nbrans]

Actually, Monroe did get pretty close to doing just that. He was too skilled, too strong, and too quick for Thabeet. I watched that game multiple times and Monroe took it to him, no question about it. He didn't put up huge numbers but you could see he was making Thabeet very uncomfortable on both ends.

We all watched the same game. Monroe did well. He was too skilled, (not at all too strong), and quick enough. He hit his outside shots and hit a few hooks. It was a great game from Monroe, by far the best I've seen him play all year. But let's be honest -- it wasn't like he put up 30/15 or anything. He made Thabeet work and hit tough shots. Good for him.

Yes, it raises questions about Thabeet's ability to guard quick power forwards. Since Thabeet isn't generally going to be playing quick power forwards in the NBA though, I'm not particularly worried about it.

 

[bajaden]

We all watched the same game. Monroe did well. He was too skilled, (not at all too strong), and quick enough. He hit his outside shots and hit a few hooks. It was a great game from Monroe, by far the best I've seen him play all year. But let's be honest -- it wasn't like he put up 30/15 or anything. He made Thabeet work and hit tough shots. Good for him.

Yes, it raises questions about Thabeet's ability to guard quick power forwards. Since Thabeet isn't generally going to be playing quick power forwards in the NBA though, I'm not particularly worried about it.

Well your right and your wrong. He probably won't be guarding quick PF's in his initial matchup, but in the NBA, with switchs and rotations, he could end guarding a pt guard at times. Look! I have serious reservations about him. I know that you are concerned about some of his deficiences too. We can banter back and forth forever without ever convincing each other. I, for one, do not any longer wish to keep going over the same ground time and time again. To be honest, I was tired of this Thabeet debate last year.

I suggest we wait till the tournament and see who shines and who doesn't. What constantly amazes me, is when people will put Holliday in their top five instead of Harden. Harden is playing the shooting guard position, and Holliday is, at least this year, playing the shooting guard position. Their both in the same conference playing against the exact same competition, and Harden is hands down putting up outstanding numbers compared to Holliday. So why would you ( not you Nbrans ) then pick a player, who's play, is by far inferior. Where is the logic in that? Thats like saying I'm going to pick this player because he has the potential to be as good as the player I'm not picking.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Holiday is a PG, he's just not playing that position right now.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Random Thought : If we dont get the number 1 pick, Were going to select Greg Monroe.
He's too much of a kings player... It sickens me to type this, because I really want Rubio, Thabeet, Curry, Teague or Jennings, Its just that Greg is SUCH a Petrie player, that unless he gets fired at the end of the year, were picking Monroe. It sucks big time, but I bet he is already petries valentine. God Help Us.

 

[KingKong]

What's wrong with Monroe? Just wondering.

 

[vikinginferno]

He would be great but we already have Spencer and Jt and what we don't need is another skilled big.

 

[Warhawk]

He would be great but we already have Spencer and Jt and what we don't need is another skilled big.

Yeah, I hate having skilled bigs. I mean, you know they are a dime a dozen, right?

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Monroe, I think, has a chance to be the best player in this class. He's incredibly talented, is very agile and has superb ballhandling ability to go along with is amazing court vision.

But at the same time, it's hard not to want Thabeet. Anyone who's watched him this year will know about the incredible improvement to his game. Boxscore watchers will say that Harangody and Monroe torched him, and forget that in both of the games itself Thabeet shut down the paint and the aforementioned were shooting jumpshots the whole time.

And we're not talking about the same Hasheem Thabeet as the one who looked lost in his freshman and sophomore years. We're talking about the Hasheem Thabeet who has now spent three years in Jim Calhoun's NBA Factory system, not Saer Sene getting off the plane from Africa. We're talking about the Thabeet that is picking up things on the offensive end and playing within himself to a reasonable degree, even showing signs of a feathery jumper. And we're talking about the Thabeet who is absolutely dominating the paint defensively in college, picking his spots intelligently, rotating masterfully, and forcing ever slasher to think twice to see if there is a 7'3 monster lurking around.

Our team right now needs a huge spark of defense. Our offense is fine; Martin will put up points, Thompson looks like a taller Shareef Abdur-Rahim, and we have bombers like Donte and Cisco off the bench. The only thing missing is a facilitator. In the meantime, Thabeet is a SPECTACULAR defender. He makes EVERYONE second guess their actions in the paint. And I have noticed that he's developing a mean streak. 7'3 + Super Mobility + Mean Streak? You take him, add a coach with strong defensive principles, and you might eventually be looking at a defensive revolution like what happened when KG went to Boston in 2007.

 

[bajaden]

Holiday is a PG, he's just not playing that position right now.

Vlade,,,, I'm aware that he's susposed to be a point guard ( debatable ) I did say, at least this year. Is it really necessary for me to state the obvious?????

 

[bajaden]

He would be great but we already have Spencer and Jt and what we don't need is another skilled big.

So.... Are you saying what we need is an unskilled big?

 

[asakkings]

I dont think you can really compare Jrue to harden at this time. Jrue doesnt really get his number called too many times as the ball stays with Collison the whole game, whereas harden is the main focus of the arizona state offense. And playing out of position doesnt help Jrue either, i am pretty sure he wont come out this year.

 

[nbrans]

Well. I can't speak for vikinginferno, but I'm hoping one of the skills of any big we draft is rebounding. Monroe doesn't fit that category.

 

[asakkings]

i agree 100% with nbrans on the rebounding issue, lets hope for griffin.

 

[bajaden]

Monroe, I think, has a chance to be the best player in this class. He's incredibly talented, is very agile and has superb ballhandling ability to go along with is amazing court vision.

But at the same time, it's hard not to want Thabeet. Anyone who's watched him this year will know about the incredible improvement to his game. Boxscore watchers will say that Harangody and Monroe torched him, and forget that in both of the games itself Thabeet shut down the paint and the aforementioned were shooting jumpshots the whole time.

And we're not talking about the same Hasheem Thabeet as the one who looked lost in his freshman and sophomore years. We're talking about the Hasheem Thabeet who has now spent three years in Jim Calhoun's NBA Factory system, not Saer Sene getting off the plane from Africa. We're talking about the Thabeet that is picking up things on the offensive end and playing within himself to a reasonable degree, even showing signs of a feathery jumper. And we're talking about the Thabeet who is absolutely dominating the paint defensively in college, picking his spots intelligently, rotating masterfully, and forcing ever slasher to think twice to see if there is a 7'3 monster lurking around.

Our team right now needs a huge spark of defense. Our offense is fine; Martin will put up points, Thompson looks like a taller Shareef Abdur-Rahim, and we have bombers like Donte and Cisco off the bench. The only thing missing is a facilitator. In the meantime, Thabeet is a SPECTACULAR defender. He makes EVERYONE second guess their actions in the paint. And I have noticed that he's developing a mean streak. 7'3 + Super Mobility + Mean Streak? You take him, add a coach with strong defensive principles, and you might eventually be looking at a defensive revolution like what happened when KG went to Boston in 2007.

First of all, I'm going to assume that you wern't comparing Thabeet to KG. Secondly, I want to applaud you on your use of adjectives. I, for one don't see the mean streak your refering to. I do see more intensity from him, which I think comes from actually knowing what your susposed to do on the court. I'll agree with you on your description of his defense. Offensively he's a project. He has no low post game at all other than dunking the ball. He does have a decent looking jumper, but only takes it maybe once a game if at all, which tells me he doesn't, as yet have confidence in it.

I think that if he has dedication and puts in the hard work he can be anything from decent to very good offensively. Defensively he can be a force, but it won't be as easy for him in the NBA where players have more shake and bake moves under the basket. A Barkley would foul him out of the game as would a Benard King type of player. He'll have some adjustments to make. He has good instincts, so in time I think he'll be fine. Understand though, that right now he's a one trick pony thats relying on his height and athleticism. Both of those things will be negated to some degree at the next level. So patience will be necessary until his skill level starts to reach his potential.

 

[Kingster]

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think Monroe got the better of that matchup. I might just disagree somewhat on the degree, and part of that was Monroe playing out of his mind with his outside shooting.

Otherwise I think we're mostly in agreement. I don't have Thabeet at the top of my list because I share some of your concerns about what could happen in a smallball lineup. But at the same time, I don't think that's going to happen night in and night out, and even if he would struggle at times against shorter players, I don't think that's a reason not to draft a guy. It's kind of missing the forest for the trees - he's still a dynamic defensive player even if he has a weakness.

There are still plenty of centers out there that will be on the floor for Thabeet to guard, and, of course, a team that smallballs him is going to have to deal with his rebounding. I know people don't think he's an aggressive rebounder, but I think a lot of that has to do with avoiding foul trouble. Put him in the NBA where they won't be calling ticky tack stuff on him and I think that will be another way to stay on the floor.

You're too reasonable. It's hard to disagree with that. I think my frustration with the Thabeet debate is that we have to even debate the issue. In many other years we wouldn't even be discussing such a player in the top 5, but this is a relatively weak year, and so we (I) am gnashing my teeth over taking such a project. He's definitely going to play in the NBA. He will have a defensive presence. It's all the other stuff that we'll have to wait and see about. I'm in agreement with others that Petrie will not make him the pick, so like all of this we'll wait and see.

 

[Gary]

We all watched the same game. Monroe did well. He was too skilled, (not at all too strong), and quick enough. He hit his outside shots and hit a few hooks. It was a great game from Monroe, by far the best I've seen him play all year. But let's be honest -- it wasn't like he put up 30/15 or anything. He made Thabeet work and hit tough shots. Good for him.

Yes, it raises questions about Thabeet's ability to guard quick power forwards. Since Thabeet isn't generally going to be playing quick power forwards in the NBA though, I'm not particularly worried about it.

Then it brings the question how has he played against big strong natural centers when he has been given the chance? He has actually played better against the PFs than the real deal Centers.

 

[Gary]

Vlade,,,, I'm aware that he's susposed to be a point guard ( debatable ) I did say, at least this year. Is it really necessary for me to state the obvious?????

Well he's out of position.. For a guy that's used to always having the ball in his hands it's a major change for him. I don't expect him to put up Westbrook type numbers because Westbrook had a year (limited minutes) in that offense already and with Collison.

If you take Collison out of the equation I can guarantee Holiday would shine. This year he might be a 10-12 pick but next year running the offense at UCLA would probably move him up into the top 5.

 

[nbrans]

Then it brings the question how has he played against big strong natural centers when he has been given the chance? He has actually played better against the PFs than the real deal Centers.

The problem is that there aren't any "real" centers in college right now, and yeah, you can point to one game a year ago when Hibbert beat him, but that completely overlooks how much Thabeet has improved and, you know, the fact that it was one game a year ago.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Vlade,,,, I'm aware that he's susposed to be a point guard ( debatable ) I did say, at least this year. Is it really necessary for me to state the obvious?????

It's a strawman though, you know that the people who are ranking him above Harden view him as a PG in the NBA, and he is just playing SG right now because of extenuating circumstances. You say you are confused about why people rank Holiday above Harden, well it's because that those people probably don't view Harden as a potential PG.

Who's the better college SG? Well, it's obviously Harden. I don't think anyone is going to argue with that.

 

[bajaden]

Well. I can't speak for vikinginferno, but I'm hoping one of the skills of any big we draft is rebounding. Monroe doesn't fit that category.

Hard to argue with that! I want to see more of Bracken's. Is he coming out this year?

 

[bajaden]

It's a strawman though, you know that the people who are ranking him above Harden view him as a PG in the NBA, and he is just playing SG right now because of extenuating circumstances. You say you are confused about why people rank Holiday above Harden, well it's because that those people probably don't view Harden as a potential PG.

Who's the better college SG? Well, it's obviously Harden. I don't think anyone is going to argue with that.

I guess I just look at things differently. I try to judge who is the best player available regardless of position. Yes, I would love to have a top tier point guard, but I'm not going to reach and pick one thats a lesser player than someone at a different position. If that makes any sense.

So my point is, that right now, at this moment in time, Harden is the better player. So why pick a player thats not as finished a product just because he plays a position of need.

If I have the first pick in the draft, I pick Griffin. Not because we particularly need him, but because he has more value than the others. You can always trade him for what you do need. If we decide to keep him, fine. If we decide to trade him, fine. I just want the most bang for my buck.

 

[nbrans]

Hard to argue with that! I want to see more of Bracken's. Is he coming out this year?

When I was watching one of his games the announcers mentioned that he was leaning towards coming out but that they thought he needed more time and were concerned about who had his ear. Personally I think he's more ready than half of the people who are expected to come out this year, so I hope he declares. Serious, serious sleeper.

Unfortunately I don't know that any of his upcoming games are televised, and Iowa St. is not going to make the NCAAs and probably not the NIT. If you have a good computer and internet connection you can watch the games on ESPN 360 though.

And here's a YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDUpptb-7U (grainy, but shows a lot of his game from Kansas)

He really reminds me of a skinner, quicker Jason Thompson.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I guess I just look at things differently. I try to judge who is the best player available regardless of position. Yes, I would love to have a top tier point guard, but I'm not going to reach and pick one thats a lesser player than someone at a different position. If that makes any sense.

So my point is, that right now, at this moment in time, Harden is the better player. So why pick a player thats not as finished a product just because he plays a position of need.

If I have the first pick in the draft, I pick Griffin. Not because we particularly need him, but because he has more value than the others. You can always trade him for what you do need. If we decide to keep him, fine. If we decide to trade him, fine. I just want the most bang for my buck.

If that's your standard fine, go with it, but there's nothing unreasonable about factoring in versatility and upside. Actually I think everyone should factor those things in because they do matter, but that's me. Also, PG's are more valuable than SG's.

I'm down for BPA, but BPA to me doesn't just mean best player available at this moment.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

nice block thabeet.

 

[bajaden]

Iowa St. is playing Colorado on Fox Sports Rocky Mountain right now. Bracken looks great.....

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Is there protection on our Houston pick this year?, because there are articles saying Tmacs out for the season.