Other Kings Players Involved In The Artest Trade

#4
It can't be very much salary difference to make up because Artest and B-Jax are very close as it is, and Greene is only making late 1st money.
 
#8
Amick confirmed at his recent post.

According to a second source close to the Kings, second-round draft picks Sean Singletary and Patrick Ewing Jr. could be sent to Houston as a means to keep the Kings under the luxury tax. Both players have partially guaranteed contracts that aren't fully guaranteed until the beginning of the regular season. That element of the deal, however, could be handled with different pieces as well.
 
#9
If it's Singletary and Ewing Jr., it gets rid of the two second rounders that Geoff extremely reached for in this year's draft--I don't think anyone would have any remorse trading those guys away to the Rockets. Douby is a has-been; besides, with Udrih and two sparkplug type players in Bobby Jackson and Bobby Brown, his time has come because he duplicates the latter two players' skills. It's time we give the fresh and underrated Brown a chance. Hopefully an individual deal just giving away Douby, a future 1st rounder and unloading Kenny Thomas's contract to a team that has the cap space to take them straight up will suffice, but that's more pipe dream than anything.
 
#11
Douby alone isn't going to sweeten a Brad deal, much less a KT deal. I could see us potentially shipping Cisco and Brad together, then you do need Douby at the 2 behind Kevin, assuming Greene can handle the 3 behind Salmons. Too early to tell at this point, but something to think about at the trade deadline (assuming we haven't dealt Brad by then).
 
#12
This deal opens up time for Douby. I don't see Greene contributing much NEXT season. Douby is now exclusively a 2 guard with Beno/B-Jax/Brown all able to handle the 1. Ron leaving opens up minutes for Salmons/Garcia to play at the 3 so now I expect Douby to get handed 15-20 more minutes a night behind Martin. I think this is his year to show what he's got. He's an incredible scorer and a pretty dang good defender too. I'd hate to LOSE him on some 'throw-in' cuz I think he could very easily be a poor man's Jason Terry when given consistent minutes.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#16
I see no words from any "reliable" source about any other Kings players needed to complete this deal. BJax and Green's salaries are close to RonRon and the rather low #1 from Houston should make the deal very equal. I see on ESPN that the Kings also get $1M in cash from the Rockets. Maybe that is where Singletary/Ewing fit. Need to see some cooberation of other Kings going before I begin to believe.
 
#17
This deal opens up time for Douby. I don't see Greene contributing much NEXT season. Douby is now exclusively a 2 guard with Beno/B-Jax/Brown all able to handle the 1. Ron leaving opens up minutes for Salmons/Garcia to play at the 3 so now I expect Douby to get handed 15-20 more minutes a night behind Martin. I think this is his year to show what he's got. He's an incredible scorer and a pretty dang good defender too. I'd hate to LOSE him on some 'throw-in' cuz I think he could very easily be a poor man's Jason Terry when given consistent minutes.
Perhaps Douby can get some PT at his natural position, but do we really want that? He showed flashes at the tail end of the season and may be one of those late bloomers who suddenly breaks out once he realizes that he's nearing his contract extension, but keep in mind we have three legitimate swingmen--Kevin Martin, John Salmons, and Francisco Garcia--who are surely going to command a lot of minutes. Besides, B-Jax and Bobby Brown are arguably both SGs trapped in PG's bodies, and Brown in particular brings the same sort of shooting and potential ballhawk ability that Douby already has, combined with perhaps some untapped PG skills that Douby has already shown he lacks. He may get playing time due to our sheer need for a scorer now that Artest is gone, but he is what he is--a one-trick scoring pony who may surprise with the occasional block and steal.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#18
Its hard to see it being anybody other than the 2nd round guys. Nobody is taking on the ugly PF contracts, and Douby probably has a little too much value to waste as a throw in. Even if we end up slightly over the tax limit after the deal, just make another one (Brad anybody) and you can correct that.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#19
Here's what I don't understand. As the deal stands now, nothing needs to be added to complete the deal. The salarys are almost a match. Its being reported that the additions are for luxury tax benefits. However, Singletery and Ewing both have only partially guarranteed contracts, which, if I understand correctly, can simply be dropped by not fully gurarranting them at the start of the season. So why even bother including them.

On the other hand, Douby's contract is fully gurarranteed, and would have more of an impact on the luxury tax, albeit, a small one, than either Singletery or Ewing. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#20
Here's what I don't understand. As the deal stands now, nothing needs to be added to complete the deal. The salarys are almost a match. Its being reported that the additions are for luxury tax benefits. However, Singletery and Ewing both have only partially guarranteed contracts, which, if I understand correctly, can simply be dropped by not fully gurarranting them at the start of the season. So why even bother including them.

On the other hand, Douby's contract is fully gurarranteed, and would have more of an impact on the luxury tax, albeit, a small one, than either Singletery or Ewing. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

Well, the luxury tax is a threshold -- its not just the pay an extra 1$ for every 1$ over the limit thing. If that were the only issue, then going over the limit by $10, or even $10,000 would be no biggee and teams would feel more free when up in the neighborhood. But the second part of it is that once you cross that threshhold, even if you only cross it by $1 (or $10 etc.) you lose the payouts the teams under the limit get. As I understand it the penalty $s paid by the few teams over the tax limit are then redistributed and divied up amongst all the teams under it. Meaning basically that the Knicks have been funding the league. :p But seriously, if the Knicks are $29 million over the tax limit, and have to pay a $29 million dollar luxury tax penalty, then that $29 million is distributed to all of the teams who stayed under the limit. So even if all 29 other teams stayed under the limit, they would still all get $1 million from the Knicks. Which isn;t chump change, and whihc is why I think everybody is so terrified of exceeding that limit for any reason -- millions are on the line.

In any case, given the above, then even a tiny partially guaranteed contract could be just enough to get you back under the limit and get you millions of those Knicks dollars.
 
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#22
This deal opens up time for Douby. I don't see Greene contributing much NEXT season. Douby is now exclusively a 2 guard with Beno/B-Jax/Brown all able to handle the 1. Ron leaving opens up minutes for Salmons/Garcia to play at the 3 so now I expect Douby to get handed 15-20 more minutes a night behind Martin. I think this is his year to show what he's got. He's an incredible scorer and a pretty dang good defender too. I'd hate to LOSE him on some 'throw-in' cuz I think he could very easily be a poor man's Jason Terry when given consistent minutes.
I actually think that the addition of Bobby Jackson takes time away from Douby. Bobby always seems to put in as much time at SG as he does at PG. And given the choice of him or Douby, I know who I would rather have on the court.
 
#23
I actually think that the addition of Bobby Jackson takes time away from Douby. Bobby always seems to put in as much time at SG as he does at PG. And given the choice of him or Douby, I know who I would rather have on the court.
Definitely. Let's play the injury-prone, 35-year-old B-Jax over our 2006 #1 in his contract year.

Good move for the future. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, its going to be exciting to see Bobby in a Kings uni again, but I don't want him playing a ton. Unless Douby completely busts early in the season. I don't think that's happening though.
 
#25
Definitely. Let's play the injury-prone, 35-year-old B-Jax over our 2006 #1 in his contract year.

Good move for the future. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, its going to be exciting to see Bobby in a Kings uni again, but I don't want him playing a ton. Unless Douby completely busts early in the season. I don't think that's happening though.
I look at it this way. Whoever gives the Kings a better chance of winning should be playing behind Martin. If that is BJax, I'm fine with that; and if it's Douby, I'm fine with that as well.

I don't see EITHER player being a big part of the Kings' future, so I don't care if the older player gets the minutes. If Douby really is part of the future, then he should be able to beat out BJax for those minutes. If he can't do that in his 3rd season, then he doesn't deserve the playing time.
 
#26
People definitely have a right to lambast me for being very singular; it seems like ever since the dawn of new age, I've shown little liking for Douby's game whatsoever, although I've been caught up at times with his steal/blockfests at times. He'll definitely get more minutes this year to perhaps show what he excels in--shooting the ball and hopefully stealing the basketball--but apart from those two aspects, and 116 games into his career--we already know who he is, and what his game is like, for better or for worse. He's solely a SG (a commonplace, undersized one to boot) whose expertise is shooting, and unless he has a Sasha Vujacic-like explosion in which he recovers those 39% shooting FGs and parlays them into 40%+ 3-pt shooting, he won't have a long career in the league. And even if he gets that chance and explodes, he probably won't be a fit behind Martin, Garcia and Salmons (the latter for the time being) on this team, so eventually we have to parlay any value he has for something better. There's just so many variables working against him.
 
#27
Well, the luxury tax is a threshold -- its not just the pay an extra 1$ for every 1$ over the limit thing. If that were the only issue, then going over the limit by $10, or even $10,000 would be no biggee and teams would feel more free when up in the neighborhood. But the second part of it is that once you cross that threshhold, even if you only cross it by $1 (or $10 etc.) you lose the payouts the teams under the limit get. As I understand it the penalty $s paid by the few teams over the tax limit are then redistributed and divied up amongst all the teams under it. Meaning basically that the Knicks have been funding the league. :p But seriously, if the Knicks are $29 million over the tax limit, and have to pay a $29 million dollar luxury tax penalty, then that $29 million is distributed to all of the teams who stayed under the limit. So even if all 29 other teams stayed under the limit, they would still all get $1 million from the Knicks. Which isn;t chump change, and whihc is why I think everybody is so terrified of exceeding that limit for any reason -- millions are on the line.

In any case, given the above, then even a tiny partially guaranteed contract could be just enough to get you back under the limit and get you millions of those Knicks dollars.
The league gets some too. Usually the teams under get about 3-4 million.

But what I don't get is Rons contract is 7.4 mil. Bobby's is 6.1 and Green under 1 mill. So if you add Bobby and Green they are still less than Ron's contract. We were below the lux cap before, where in the trade did we go over? By my count we went down a few hundred thousand.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#28
I look at it this way. Whoever gives the Kings a better chance of winning should be playing behind Martin. If that is BJax, I'm fine with that; and if it's Douby, I'm fine with that as well.

I don't see EITHER player being a big part of the Kings' future, so I don't care if the older player gets the minutes. If Douby really is part of the future, then he should be able to beat out BJax for those minutes. If he can't do that in his 3rd season, then he doesn't deserve the playing time.
Well said! Not being a big Douby fan, I could care less. If he proves me wrong, I'm fine with that.
 
#29
I think Douby has scary Ben Gordon like potential.....but there is something missing that I can't quite pin down. If we find that missing piece whatever it may be I think he can finally transition from a "rookie" into a player. Who knows, maby he will suprise like K-Mart did.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#30
But what I don't get is Rons contract is 7.4 mil. Bobby's is 6.1 and Green under 1 mill. So if you add Bobby and Green they are still less than Ron's contract. We were below the lux cap before, where in the trade did we go over? By my count we went down a few hundred thousand.
Hoopshype has Bobby at 6.1, but ShamSports has him at 6.99. If the latter is right, that's the explanation.