More Donaghy -- Alleging NBA Fixed Game 6 Series in 2002?

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As much as we all know the refs sucked that night, it wont change the outcome. We still had a chance AT HOME IN ARCO to close it out. We choked! PERIOD!

No that's not a legit excuse for the NBA. If they don't mess up game 6 then THERE IS NO GAME 7.

So I guess the Spurs should've gone extra chances vs the Lakers until they were finally able to win one of those games w/o any help:rolleyes:. Come on, this is like the NBA giving the team they want to win a do-over until they finally win 1 on their own.
 
i'm almost with merdiesel here. If this ends up being true (which I highly suspect is the case) I might have to step away from watching the NBA until a new commissioner is in place. I feel disgusted. I could never leave the Kings, but I just can't support David Stern. This is a mockery of the sport, and any fan of the NBA should feel insulted.

I will remain a Kings fan, watch every game like I normally do. A fan of the NBA, I am not. Its a real shame, honestly.
 
At first I was upset, because it just re-kindled all of those hate-filled negative memories. But after cooling off, I actually feel happy. I want to be able to look back at that beautiful team and say we were champions. This news makes me feel justified in those thoughts.

I can't wait to call all of my friends that are Laker fans.


And I think we deserve nothing less than the 1st pick in the draft next year.
 
At first I was upset, because it just re-kindled all of those hate-filled negative memories. But after cooling off, I actually feel happy. I want to be able to look back at that beautiful team and say we were champions. This news makes me feel justified in those thoughts.

I can't wait to call all of my friends that are Laker fans.


And I think we deserve nothing less than the 1st pick in the draft next year.

this isn't the first time ive read someone saying we deserve some kind of compensation. which makes me wonder. does anyone know if the kings would get any kind of compensation if the allegations turned out to be true? nothing like this has happened before so there is no precedent for what would happen. i know when they blew that atl/mia game it was replayed but redoing a nba finals is ridiculous. when minny had their joe smith scandal, i believe they got some draft picks taken away so is it out of the question to reward the kings extra picks? does anyone know what the possiblities are...my guess is the kings get a formal apology with is worth...what has less value then dog crap?
 
Hey, it is on the front page of Drudge still, but yeah, we have too short of attention spans anyways for this to continue to get big airtime or print time in the media. :)
 
Rest of the article: http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8227824

Conspiracy theorists will read the Donaghy letter as the absolute, incontrovertible smoking gun. A guy on the inside revealing details of the way the league works.

Those of us who have been reluctant to countenance such theories now have to take a second look.

A few years ago it might have been easy to dismiss Donaghy as a dirtball looking to throw others under the bus in exchange for leniency. But with dubious characters like Jose Canseco and Brian McNamee repeatedly proving more credible than their adversaries, a Donaghy letter to the court puts the onus on the NBA to prove it isn't true.

If Donaghy's allegations are true, it would certainly provide him with his own motivation to dip his beak into the barrel of corruption. If he knew the league was wrongly influencing games, wouldn't that embolden him to cash in on his own influence? If the system was already spoiled, what sanctity would he be violating?

The NBA may want Tim Donaghy to just disappear. But until it can convince its consumers that a bad call is just a bad call and not part of a larger scheme to create as many revenue-generating Game 7s as possible, the perception that something's amiss will never go away.


_____
Yeah I heard about this and was really bothered again like this game happened recently. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens (if anything).
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Doing some poking around. Here is the copy of the actual letter: http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/080610/donaghy03.pdf


Things of note:

a) the timing of this is now explained -- the NBA apparently filed for $1million in compensation from Donaghy for the costs of their inevestigation, and this was Donaghy's retaliation. To make things worse apparently the sentencing guidelines have some provision whereby if Donaghy cannot pay the restitution (which he obviosuly can't) that it can mean additional prison time (which is odd), and a potential breakdown of the plea and shorter time he had negotiated with the feds. Hence a major revenge motive.

1) his source for the 2002 info is "Referee A". He claims that Referee A told him that Referee A and Referee F wanted to extend the series to 7 games. It would be very odd for a guy to come out and tell another ref, especially an unpopular one, that. But he does list a source rather than just the vague acusations. Of course also means that the feds should have easily had only three guys to directly question on the matter (who would of course all deny it).

2) he does not directly claim the NBA ordered the slant. Says the referees wanted the game 7. Does say the referees were "comapny men", hence suggeting they were working in the NBA's interests, but no direct allegation thta he knew it was the NBA directing things.

3) his claims of how the slant was accomplished -- phantom foul calls, ignoring fouls on the other end etc. -- certainly mesh wiht what many observers have always complained about int hat game. But its not clear where/how he would have learned about them, other than jsut watching as we all did. The claim seems to be that the ref spoke to him before the game happened, not after.

4) the "don't kick out a star" thing seems to apply to not throwing them out on technicals -- i..e why Duncan can whine on every single call and Kobe scream and wave his fists at refs wihtout reprecussion. Maybe also why when Joe threw Duncan out last year it was such a big deal to the NBA. Donaghy does not directly claim a preference in foul calling however.

5) interesting thing though, more interesting than the specific examples, are the claims of h9ow games would be manipulated. Other than the examples, not by somebody going muhahahaha, or clandestine backroom meetings with cuban cigars, but by the league sending out memos to watch for this foul call or that or similar subtle indications of the way they would like things to go. In Donaghy's world (both paranoid and vengeful slime throwing it should be noted) such things are picked up and correctly interpreted by a group of complicit refs seemingly all in on the general welfare of the league and willing to do their part. Throw in heaping does of nepotism, patronage, and cozy relationships between certain refs and certain team offocials and whatnot, and you have a fuzzy but plausible way that things happen. Not an explicit conspiracy (on a nightly basis) so much as a league where interpersonal relationships and interest influence basketball results.
 
Doing some poking around. Here is the copy of the actual letter: http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/080610/donaghy03.pdf


Things of note:

a) the timing of this is now explained -- the NBA apparently filed for $1million in compensation from Donaghy for the costs of their inevestigation, and this was Donaghy's retaliation. To make things worse apparently the sentencing guidelines have some provision whereby if Donaghy cannot pay the restitution (which he obviosuly can't) that it can mean additional prison time (which is odd), and a potential breakdown of the plea and shorter time he had negotiated with the feds. Hence a major revenge motive.

1) his source for the 2002 info is "Referee A". He claims that Referee A told him that Referee A and Referee F wanted to extend the series to 7 games. It would be very odd for a guy to come out and tell another ref, especially an unpopular one, that. But he does list a source rather than just the vague acusations. Of course also means that the feds should have easily had only three guys to directly question on the matter (who would of course all deny it).

2) he does not directly claim the NBA ordered the slant. Says the referees wanted the game 7. Does say the referees were "comapny men", hence suggeting they were working in the NBA's interests, but no direct allegation thta he knew it was the NBA directing things.

3) his claims of how the slant was accomplished -- phantom foul calls, ignoring fouls on the other end etc. -- certainly mesh wiht what many observers have always complained about int hat game. But its not clear where/how he would have learned about them, other than jsut watching as we all did. The claim seems to be that the ref spoke to him before the game happened, not after.

4) the "don't kick out a star" thing seems to apply to not throwing them out on technicals -- i..e why Duncan can whine on every single call and Kobe scream and wave his fists at refs wihtout reprecussion. Maybe also why when Joe threw Duncan out last year it was such a big deal to the NBA. Donaghy does not directly claim a preference in foul calling however.

5) interesting thing though, more interesting than the specific examples, are the claims of h9ow games would be manipulated. Other than the examples, not by somebody going muhahahaha, or clandestine backroom meetings with cuban cigars, but by the league sending out memos to watch for this foul call or that or similar subtle indications of the way they would like things to go. In Donaghy's world (both paranoid and vengeful slime throwing it should be noted) such things are picked up and correctly interpreted by a group of complicit refs seemingly all in on the general welfare of the league and willing to do their part. Throw in heaping does of nepotism, patronage, and cozy relationships between certain refs and certain team offocials and whatnot, and you have a fuzzy but plausible way that things happen. Not an explicit conspiracy (on a nightly basis) so much as a league where interpersonal relationships and interest influence basketball results.

Bill Simmons was on the rise guys this morning, and he does not Believe that Bavetta, or Delaney would ever be involved in anything like this, which were both referees in game 6.

He did say though that it is an understood rule that Star players get preferential treatment when it comes to tech calls, and getting thrown out. He says he was told by a veteran coach when he first started, that the people pay money to come see these star players play, not sit on the bench. Interestingly enough though he says any league notes never talk about tech calls in anyway shape or form. So, stern has deniability. It's just an understood rule amongst ref's at this point, and the league says nothing about it.

Also that notices to refs pass through so many people that Stern would always be able to deny anything orders or insinuations coming from the top.

My personal thoughts are, as much as Donaghey is trying to save his own butt, there is something to this. Not as a Kings fan, but as a person who watches basketball, something was wrong with Game 6. The Lakers shot 27 free throws in the 4th quarter. Average that over 4 quarters and you have 108 free throws. 27 free throws is unheard of for one quarter. That's a high number for an entire game.
 
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This hurts.....it just hurts.

As a fan who truly wants to see the Kings win the championship and knowing now that was the best chance for them to do was that series.

Donaghy gets what he deserves, fuel is added to the one game that conspiracy theories live in infamy about the NBA.

Seeing Mike "foul" Kobe again...:mad:

Phil Jackson...I'm amazed that on one hand you bring up Game 5's closing moments but at the same time say that you don't want to go down that road. Laughable really, but hey it's what you expect from Phil.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Phil Jackson...I'm amazed that on one hand you bring up Game 5's closing moments but at the same time say that you don't want to go down that road. Laughable really, but hey it's what you expect from Phil.

Oh, the Game 5 nonsense has always been the Lakers best attempt at an excuse for the Game 6 travesty. They wisely rarely try to justify what happened in 6, and instead try to spin it around as comeupance because obviously it was jsut as bad for them in Game 5 (it was not).
 
stern's desperate. if $h!# hits the fan, expect him to try to throw someone else under the bus. no way does he go down without trying to put up a fight. things could get real messy.
I'd like to think that the last thing that went through his head, other than that bullet, was to wonder how the hell Tim Donaghy ever got the best of him. :p
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
So why would Delaney lie to the feds?

Donaghy you mean?

Donaghy so:

a) he is "cooperating" with them, and can claim to be spilling all his beans. Feds like that, and will ask the judge to mark donw your sentece since you are cooperatring.

b) in a similar vein to have an excuse for his own behavior -- in the hey, everybody was cheating, so while I know what I did was wrong, I wasn't the only one and shouldn't be singled out

c) revenge. As noted the NBA took down Donaghy, and this is revenge served cold. And as I mentioned above, the actual inspiration for the timing here appears to be a $1million claim the NBA has made against Donaghy for their costs in the investigation. Threatens his plea agreement wiht the feds. So you screw me, well here, I'll lay a turd on your doorstep right in the middle of your much hyped Finals.
 
Donaghy you mean?

Donaghy so:

a) he is "cooperating" with them, and can claim to be spilling all his beans. Feds like that, and will ask the judge to mark donw your sentece since you are cooperatring.

b) in a similar vein to have an excuse for his own behavior -- in the hey, everybody was cheating, so while I know what I did was wrong, I wasn't the only one and shouldn't be singled out

c) revenge. As noted the NBA took down Donaghy, and this is revenge served cold. And as I mentioned above, the actual inspiration for the timing here appears to be a $1million claim the NBA has made against Donaghy for their costs in the investigation. Threatens his plea agreement wiht the feds. So you screw me, well here, I'll lay a turd on your doorstep right in the middle of your much hyped Finals.

correct. and side note; the time in which he picks to spill it doesnt mean that the games werent fixed. just wanted to keep that from straying
 
question for brick here. i never really believe in the thoroughness of an nba-initiated "investigation." so in this case, if the feds were to investigate it, do you think it more likely that they would uncover something?
 
I haven't posted for a while but after hearing the allegations made by Donaghy I had to come see what everyone was saying.

I think as much as I would love to believe the allegations made by Donaghy, I can't believe that Stern and the NBA would be so stupid as to actually affect the officiating, and hence a series, in such a manner. They would have to understand that any potential monetary/competitive gain to be had by a game 7 would be completely blown up by it ever being revealed to outside parties. They would have to understand that if anyone ever found out, it would destroy the NBA as we know it.

that's the reason I just can't believe the allegations to be true.
 
I'm sorry but I don't fall into the "let sleeping dogs lie" category. If what is being claimed by Donaghy is even remotely true, it needs to be thoroughly investigated. A sh*t storm needs to be created, even if that means that it leads to the very top. What's to say something like this doesn't happen in the fututre or even going on as we speak. It's not just about the Kings. I don't even want an apology (if true) for the team and it's fans. But unless NBA fans get the truth, the whole integrity of the NBA is marred and watching it becomes meaningless to me.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
question for brick here. i never really believe in the thoroughness of an nba-initiated "investigation." so in this case, if the feds were to investigate it, do you think it more likely that they would uncover something?

Feds have apparently had this info from Donaghy for some time -- this was just his lawyer detailing to the sentencing judge all the beans he had already spilled for them. No idea what the feds have done with it. Would certianly say they would be far more motivated than the NBA not only to investigate, but to reveal any aberrant results from the investigation -- despite quetions over whether any of that stuff might rise to the level of a crime, an ambitious prosecutor would sniff an opportunity for a major score if he could be the one ot break the case on conspiracy in a major sports league. But if all Donaghy has in the 2002 case is "Referee A told me so", and when th Feds go to the refs and say "did you?", they say no...hard to see where they could take that unless they had something else to pressure that ref with. Real life isn't like "The Closer" -- unless you've got some leverage, nobody is going to just break for dramatic effect, and as a prosecutor you have to be careful about going after people too hard without something tangible to justify the effort.
 
^ack, the closer advertisement follows me even to kingsfans.com. :p

thanks for the insight. i hope something does come of this. like kingkong, if this is in any way real, it needs to be rooted out. that troll stern and his damn smugness need to go.
 
Oh, the Game 5 nonsense has always been the Lakers best attempt at an excuse for the Game 6 travesty. They wisely rarely try to justify what happened in 6, and instead try to spin it around as comeupance because obviously it was jsut as bad for them in Game 5 (it was not).
Again which is why I call it laughable. Frustrated maybe by talking about this when your team finally won a game in this series. At the same time though....my understanding is that the league imposed a gag order on speaking about the Donaghy case...didn't Phil just break that?
 
The Lakers were facing elimination when they took Game 6 at home in a controversial 106-102 win in Los Angeles. The Lakers took a staggering 27 free throws in the fourth quarter.
Overall, the Lakers took 40 free throws to 25 for the Kings.

"We're the better team," an irate Kings center Vlade Divac said after the game. "Just let us play and we'll beat 'em."

"I'm not going to say what I really feel," said Kings forward Chris Webber that night. "I'll get fined. I'll keep my opinions to myself. We didn't have a chance."

Divac added: "We've played what, six games? We've lost one because they were better. We won this one. It's just not on paper."

Divac fouled out in 31 minutes, and teammate Scot Pollard lasted only 11 minutes before picking up six fouls. Webber played the last 3:07 with five fouls.

The Lakers starting five had a total of 18 fouls.
Reached for comment last night, Pollard said: "I thought it was unfair. I didn't think we had a chance to win from the start. I think our whole starting five had two fouls right way."

"This was not all. The Kobe Bryant elbow in the nose of Mike Bibby, who after lying on the floor groggy, went to the sideline bleeding, was in full view of the referee, who did nothing."



I don't even know where to start..this is so very upsetting and I with all my heart believe that it's true. Tim Donaghy was wrong yes, and he's going to jail, he knows it and I believe this all came out not as a lie to reduce his jail time but because it really did happen! Of course he wants to reduce his jail time, who wouldn't, so he's cooperating and coming out with everything that really did happen!! He could have lied about anything, about any game, but to go back 6 years ago and bring up this..it's just too..omg :(!!! That 2002 Kings team deserved to win! Each and every guy played their hearts out and gave it everything they had, they were definately the better team, they out played those sorry Lakers and got no credit for it at all, like they said, the Kings didn't have a chance because it was FIXED!!! Everyone who closely watched that series knows what happened, not just Kings fans, but everyone was talking about it! This really hurts my heart and makes me so angry. I know nothing can be done about it now and nothing will ever change but it's just upsetting, especially for all the guys who are gone and retired now without rings..Chris Webber, Doug Christie..they should be happily retired with much deserved rings on their fingers! All that hard work and what do they get for it..NOTHING! Man it just sucks! I loved that team sooo much! They are and will always be CHAMPIONS in my heart!
 
Doing some poking around. Here is the copy of the actual letter: http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/080610/donaghy03.pdf


Things of note:

a) the timing of this is now explained -- the NBA apparently filed for $1million in compensation from Donaghy for the costs of their inevestigation, and this was Donaghy's retaliation. To make things worse apparently the sentencing guidelines have some provision whereby if Donaghy cannot pay the restitution (which he obviosuly can't) that it can mean additional prison time (which is odd), and a potential breakdown of the plea and shorter time he had negotiated with the feds. Hence a major revenge motive.

1) his source for the 2002 info is "Referee A". He claims that Referee A told him that Referee A and Referee F wanted to extend the series to 7 games. It would be very odd for a guy to come out and tell another ref, especially an unpopular one, that. But he does list a source rather than just the vague acusations. Of course also means that the feds should have easily had only three guys to directly question on the matter (who would of course all deny it).

2) he does not directly claim the NBA ordered the slant. Says the referees wanted the game 7. Does say the referees were "comapny men", hence suggeting they were working in the NBA's interests, but no direct allegation thta he knew it was the NBA directing things.

3) his claims of how the slant was accomplished -- phantom foul calls, ignoring fouls on the other end etc. -- certainly mesh wiht what many observers have always complained about int hat game. But its not clear where/how he would have learned about them, other than jsut watching as we all did. The claim seems to be that the ref spoke to him before the game happened, not after.

4) the "don't kick out a star" thing seems to apply to not throwing them out on technicals -- i..e why Duncan can whine on every single call and Kobe scream and wave his fists at refs wihtout reprecussion. Maybe also why when Joe threw Duncan out last year it was such a big deal to the NBA. Donaghy does not directly claim a preference in foul calling however.

5) interesting thing though, more interesting than the specific examples, are the claims of h9ow games would be manipulated. Other than the examples, not by somebody going muhahahaha, or clandestine backroom meetings with cuban cigars, but by the league sending out memos to watch for this foul call or that or similar subtle indications of the way they would like things to go. In Donaghy's world (both paranoid and vengeful slime throwing it should be noted) such things are picked up and correctly interpreted by a group of complicit refs seemingly all in on the general welfare of the league and willing to do their part. Throw in heaping does of nepotism, patronage, and cozy relationships between certain refs and certain team offocials and whatnot, and you have a fuzzy but plausible way that things happen. Not an explicit conspiracy (on a nightly basis) so much as a league where interpersonal relationships and interest influence basketball results.
I agree with a lot of this (as I mentioned last night). However, I would point out that I think the culture has clearly been changing in the NBA. I think they have been moving away from this kind of stuff in recent years. Perhaps even since that 2002 game 6. A lot less back and forth in officiating has occured, and I've heard much less talk of subjective instructions and more objective ones recently.
 
Laker's fans can complain about Game 5. Fine, I'll give them that win, but then the Kings get the game 4 win, because without Samaki Walker's halftime 3-pointer, Kings win that one and we go to game 6 just the same.

Walker's shot was so obviously after the buzzer, as replays confirmed, that the next year is when the NBA instituted the end-of-quarter instant replay review.

Let's face it though, just about everyone, except Laker's fans commented on game 6 being the worst (biased) officiating they'd ever seen in a game of that import. Get that right and there's no game 7 to choke away.

At this point, it doesn't really matter to me whether it was deliberate fix or absolute incompetance. The result is the same. The special team I truly loved was robbed.

That moment in time is past and can't be retrieved. Chris, Vlade, Doug, Peja, Bibby, the bench mob, Adelman and the fans....can never have that made right. Nothing will heal that hearbreak.
 
The FBI will have to obtain some serious dirt on another NBA official or another NBA referee to proceed much further. I suspect that there are a few people in the FBI and the Justice Department that are having dreams of another "Black Sox" debaucle dancing in their heads.
 
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