[LAL/BOS]Battle of the top seeds!!

[hoopsfan]

Just because the West had a record season, doesn't mean the champ of it had the hardest struggle. They had very, very fortunate seeding and fought the very weakest in the west playoffs, the weakest opponent of the 2nd round, and then a good opponent who had been weakened by the team it somehow, by the grace of god, defeated in the round before it.

All along with extremely favorable reffing to boot. Honestly, I think the Celtics had a much, much more challenging set of teams to face (LeBron James by himself could've beat the Utah Jazz in a series with the way Boozer and co. played).

What?? The Hawks with 37 wins was the team with the least wins to ever make the playoffs...ever. Took the Celtics to 7 games. Cleveland with 45 wins would have been a lottery team in the west. ( I guess you could say they were both lottery teams in the west.) Also took the Celtics to 7 games. How are those more challenging teams than 3 50+ win teams in the uber-competitive west??
(Utah being a very physical team and San Antonio one of the better defensive teams in the league.)

 

[C Diddy]

You have got to be kidding, right? If not, I hope you're a prophet. And not a false one at that.

Well, I was feeling pretty good after nailing the Bos-Det series in the face of unanimous opposition that Boston would not win in Detroit in game 6 so I just went with my gut. The more I think about it though, I really think its going to be Lakers in 5, split in Boston, sweep 3 in L.A.

I wouldn't rule out a sweep though. I think that would be bittersweet. The NBA and the all the media talking heads are saying this is the renewal of a rivalry and the best possible matchup for the league. If it comes out as an LA sweep, I think that will quiet a lot of people, including the conspiracy theorists.

 

[hoopsfan]

^^ Wow. While I would love a sweep, I just don't see it. I, of course, believe the Lakers will win, but in no way do I see it as a cakewalk.

 

[tradepeja]

You're right. The Hawks (the team with the worst regular season record to make the playoffs which took the 66-win Celtics to 7 games), Cavs, and Pistons were better opponents than the 50+ wins Nuggets, last year's WCF runner-up Jazz (also 50+ wins) and the defending champion Spurs. I agree, the Lakers had it easier.

I'm glad we could agree on the point that the Lakers, who played the team with the worst defense in the playoffs (east and west); the extremely inconsistent and lax Jazz; and a completely demolished physically and mentally Spurs indeed had it easier than the Celts who played an Atlanta team recharged with its new line-up who played extremely good defense at home; the Cavs who have probably the most explosive player in the league who can win any single game by himself and did so in game 6 and almost game 7; and the Detroit Pistons who have been in the East finals 6 straight years, have every major player in their prime and who also played lock down defense at home and at the end of road games, leading them to almost steal game 1 and 5.


Oh, by the way, this place is called Kingsfans.com. So if you expected to come on here and think everyone would agree with your Laker views, you're pretty much wrong. By the way, the above is definitely the longest single sentence I've ever wrote on here....rofl.

 

[Pau]

I'm not asking anybody to agree with me. I'm just talking hoops.

 

[BMiller52]

Well, I was feeling pretty good after nailing the Bos-Det series in the face of unanimous opposition that Boston would not win in Detroit in game 6 so I just went with my gut. The more I think about it though, I really think its going to be Lakers in 5, split in Boston, sweep 3 in L.A.

I wouldn't rule out a sweep though. I think that would be bittersweet. The NBA and the all the media talking heads are saying this is the renewal of a rivalry and the best possible matchup for the league. If it comes out as an LA sweep, I think that will quiet a lot of people, including the conspiracy theorists.

You're supposed to be a Kings fan and say LA sweeping the finals would be bitter sweet? WTF?

 

[C Diddy]

You're supposed to be a Kings fan and say LA sweeping the finals would be bitter sweet? WTF?

Bitter because its the Lakers, sweet because I think all the media attention directed at the BOS-LAL "rivalry" is overblown. I like it when media members get their comeuppance. I can't think a better way then to have all of them proven wrong with a quick series, with the country losing all interest after game 3, ratings hitting the toilet for game 4, and everyone shutting the heck up, especially those who feel its some sort of conspiracy that BOS-LAL was brought to fruition with the aide of shoddy refereeing and suspicious calls.

 

[vladetomiller]

I'm glad we could agree on the point that the Lakers, who played the team with the worst defense in the playoffs (east and west); the extremely inconsistent and lax Jazz; and a completely demolished physically and mentally Spurs indeed had it easier than the Celts who played an Atlanta team recharged with its new line-up who played extremely good defense at home; the Cavs who have probably the most explosive player in the league who can win any single game by himself and did so in game 6 and almost game 7; and the Detroit Pistons who have been in the East finals 6 straight years, have every major player in their prime and who also played lock down defense at home and at the end of road games, leading them to almost steal game 1 and 5.


Oh, by the way, this place is called Kingsfans.com. So if you expected to come on here and think everyone would agree with your Laker views, you're pretty much wrong. By the way, the above is definitely the longest single sentence I've ever wrote on here....rofl.

1. Typically teams are judged by how they play for the whole season and there is a reason why people judge teams based on number of wins in a season. Sometimes it is not a real indicator but it is rare and many a times because of an extended non availability of a star player during the regular season. Teams are also judged based on this season along with the previous seasons records as an indication of what they are capable of.

2. The team with the worst defense also ranked #2 in points per game and is #6 in FG%. So as much as they give up points they can also score points, by the way the game is won by the team that scores the most points.

If you are trying to get a little more technical, then the other statistic is the point differential where Denver for the season was +3.7 and ranked 11th in the league. Atlanta was -1.8 and ranked 19th. These are also indicative of the nba season rankings where many believe that Denver could be the overall 11th seed in the nba behind all west teams, celtics, pistons and cavs. Unfortunately Atlanta wouldnt make the playoffs if it was an overall playoff format.

If you want to argue that Atlanta was a more superior defensive team, for the season they were ranked 10th in opp FG% (Denver 17th and being on top of opp FG% ranking is not a good thing if you didnt know )

3. You seem to take only opinions as your arguments.

As you can see the worst defense in the playoffs was not Denver but Atlanta, are you going to change your tune now, maybe you would still work still on opinions, that is fine too.

Inconsistent and Lax Jazz - LOL. A team that manages to win 50+ games for a couple of seasons is inconsistent. LOL. Jazz have been known to be many things but never have I heard any of Sloans team called inconsistent, they might lack talent and sometimes even strategy (remotely) but what they are not is inconsistent. They bring it on every game.

Offcourse since that is also an opinion (although shared by many fans and importantly coaches and analysts ) you can disagree.

Oh the spurs were phsyically and emotionally demolished - Do you have any reasons to back it up, I am guessing because of the injury to manu and the fact that they had to play suns and hornets before. Maybe I will give it to you just cos there is no real answer to negate that theory.

But at the same time, you are crediting the atlanta team because they were recharged, which is your opinion and you are giving more credit to a 37 win team than the defending champions in the WCF. Suddenly the atlanta team got recharged and played great defense at home LOL. That could easily mean that the celtics are not that good and that they sucked Since you have an opinion others can opinions too. Cavs have the most explosive player - OK. Why didnt they win more than the celtics given that they have the most explosive player. Oh you mean that he can win a few games here and there but not all . Cant you say that about any of the super stars in the league. a Chris Paul can win games by himself, heck even Kleiza won a game by himself shooting lights out, so are we going to compare that too. Or to get it closer, Carmelo was supposed to be a very close talent to Bron who incidentally paired up with some of the best talent in the league, ofcourse they didnt play well as a team - And that would be the next point, it takes a team to win games and importantly series.

Manu injury - You conveniently bring about his case, but forgot to mention a finals MVP getting injured for the pistons. Maybe the pistons were affected by that, the same way the spurs were affected by manu's injury which he said many times was not an issue.

We all know its kingsfans.com - That doesnt mean it has to be beyond common sense and beyond basketball. We perfectly understand the hatred for the lakers and respect the BEAT LA / HATE LA threads, that is what we expect from fans of the other teams. In fact I smile every time I see "Die Laker Scum".

But the reason we come here to talk is because it is beyond all that team lines, there is basketball discussed with some common knowledge on the game, there is some sanity around the level of discussions and maybe learn a few things about the nba on the way. I find it funny that you want to hide behind the laker hatred line as a defense.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

You're supposed to be a Kings fan and say LA sweeping the finals would be bitter sweet? WTF?

The series can swing either way--it all depends on the outcome of the first couple games and the mentality the teams bring with them. Obviously talent and momentum are the two factors "experts" bring up in predictions, but it's a new series, and predictions can't be made until the two actually face each other in this high-pressure situation.

 

[Pau]

1. Typically teams are judged by how they play for the whole season and there is a reason why people judge teams based on number of wins in a season. Sometimes it is not a real indicator but it is rare and many a times because of an extended non availability of a star player during the regular season. Teams are also judged based on this season along with the previous seasons records as an indication of what they are capable of.

2. The team with the worst defense also ranked #2 in points per game and is #6 in FG%. So as much as they give up points they can also score points, by the way the game is won by the team that scores the most points.

If you are trying to get a little more technical, then the other statistic is the point differential where Denver for the season was +3.7 and ranked 11th in the league. Atlanta was -1.8 and ranked 19th. These are also indicative of the nba season rankings where many believe that Denver could be the overall 11th seed in the nba behind all west teams, celtics, pistons and cavs. Unfortunately Atlanta wouldnt make the playoffs if it was an overall playoff format.

If you want to argue that Atlanta was a more superior defensive team, for the season they were ranked 10th in opp FG% (Denver 17th and being on top of opp FG% ranking is not a good thing if you didnt know )

3. You seem to take only opinions as your arguments.

As you can see the worst defense in the playoffs was not Denver but Atlanta, are you going to change your tune now, maybe you would still work still on opinions, that is fine too.

Inconsistent and Lax Jazz - LOL. A team that manages to win 50+ games for a couple of seasons is inconsistent. LOL. Jazz have been known to be many things but never have I heard any of Sloans team called inconsistent, they might lack talent and sometimes even strategy (remotely) but what they are not is inconsistent. They bring it on every game.

Offcourse since that is also an opinion (although shared by many fans and importantly coaches and analysts ) you can disagree.

Oh the spurs were phsyically and emotionally demolished - Do you have any reasons to back it up, I am guessing because of the injury to manu and the fact that they had to play suns and hornets before. Maybe I will give it to you just cos there is no real answer to negate that theory.

But at the same time, you are crediting the atlanta team because they were recharged, which is your opinion and you are giving more credit to a 37 win team than the defending champions in the WCF. Suddenly the atlanta team got recharged and played great defense at home LOL. That could easily mean that the celtics are not that good and that they sucked Since you have an opinion others can opinions too. Cavs have the most explosive player - OK. Why didnt they win more than the celtics given that they have the most explosive player. Oh you mean that he can win a few games here and there but not all . Cant you say that about any of the super stars in the league. a Chris Paul can win games by himself, heck even Kleiza won a game by himself shooting lights out, so are we going to compare that too. Or to get it closer, Carmelo was supposed to be a very close talent to Bron who incidentally paired up with some of the best talent in the league, ofcourse they didnt play well as a team - And that would be the next point, it takes a team to win games and importantly series.

Manu injury - You conveniently bring about his case, but forgot to mention a finals MVP getting injured for the pistons. Maybe the pistons were affected by that, the same way the spurs were affected by manu's injury which he said many times was not an issue.

We all know its kingsfans.com - That doesnt mean it has to be beyond common sense and beyond basketball. We perfectly understand the hatred for the lakers and respect the BEAT LA / HATE LA threads, that is what we expect from fans of the other teams. In fact I smile every time I see "Die Laker Scum".

But the reason we come here to talk is because it is beyond all that team lines, there is basketball discussed with some common knowledge on the game, there is some sanity around the level of discussions and maybe learn a few things about the nba on the way. I find it funny that you want to hide behind the laker hatred line as a defense.

Nice. I couldn't have said it better myself. I've been lurking here for a while and you have to love the bias...

 

[xrzn]

Bitter because its the Lakers, sweet because I think all the media attention directed at the BOS-LAL "rivalry" is overblown. I like it when media members get their comeuppance. I can't think a better way then to have all of them proven wrong with a quick series, with the country losing all interest after game 3, ratings hitting the toilet for game 4, and everyone shutting the heck up, especially those who feel its some sort of conspiracy that BOS-LAL was brought to fruition with the aide of shoddy refereeing and suspicious calls.

So why are you wanting LA to sweep? If you just want the NBA ratings to die, why not want Boston to sweep? If

 

[C Diddy]

So why are you wanting LA to sweep? If you just want the NBA ratings to die, why not want Boston to sweep?

Because regardless of my distaste for the Lakers, I really don't see any possible scenario where they get swept by Boston. Its just not going to happen. I don't see a point to want the Celtics to sweep when there isn't any chance of it. The Lakers are too good.

 

[tradepeja]

big *** reply, lots of text below, so deleted

You brush on a few decent points, but fail on your first. Really, once the reg. season ends and the seeding is set, the season records and stats can be pretty much done away with. My reference to Denver being the worst defensive team in the playoffs was a reference to just that, not to being the worst defensive team in the regular season (if you want to look up those stats, be my guest).

Also, you are really strawmanning my argument here, that is, attacking it at its weakest point. I might even be able to concede that Atlanta was a weaker opponent than Denver (though I think it's awfully close in the complete opposite ways those teams played in the playoffs) but theres no way I could say that Utah and San Antonio were tougher to beat than Cleveland and Detroit.

Again, the inconsistency remark about Utah was about their play in the playoffs, not the regular season. Seems to be a recurring problem here with your interpretation. Utah had one guy show up every game, and that was Deron Williams. Boozer was completely MIA for every game but Game 3, and Okur was probably the most inconsistent of them all, but at least he had a couple good games. Also their young bench cmpletely under-performed (unlike in the regular season) with the only real performer being Korver.

The Celt's second round opponent on the other hand, faced a team with only one player who played well as well. The difference here, is that it was LeBron James, and not Deron Williams. If Boobie hadnt got hurt, I have no doubt in my mind with that extra bit of help, LeBron could've pulled out game 7, which he very nearly did. Oh, and you talk about thing being hilarious. Your Kleiza to LeBron comparison is just that. Kleiza's made one or two game winners in his career, LeBron has won a series by himself. Look up 2007 ECF if you somehow have been in a hole for a year.

Finally, the Spurs. If you didn't think the Spurs were not at the top of their game, hell not at half the top of their game, you haven't been watching the same Spurs I have the past 7 years. Their age and injuries caught up to them in the Laker series. Not to mention needing the Lakers letting Brent Berry almost pull a savior act in game 4 when no one else on the team could move their creaking bones enough to score or defend on the Lakers. And it wasn't just Manu not at 100%, it was basically their entire team. Detroit or Boston could have swept or 5-gamed SA in the condition they were in.

Finally, you say I'm hiding being Laker hate or something. Where am I hiding? We're right here having our nice conversation, and I'm quite enjoying it. I just wanted to get a little stab in to an obvious Laker fan who was surprised someone didn't agree with him.

 

[VF21]

Nice. I couldn't have said it better myself. I've been lurking here for a while and you have to love the bias...

I'm going to point this out once, and you can consider it OFFICIAL.

This is Kingsfans.com We're not here to talk about the Lakers, with few exceptions most Laker fans who have come here have been pains in the arse and haven't lasted very long.

We like our board just like it is. If you're here to talk hoops, you'll do fine BUT if you think you're going to make this into something other than what it is, I'll be perfectly blunt. You won't be around very long.

Take this for whatever you feel it's worth but just remember that you're a guest in our house. Act according...

-----------------------------------------------

I now return you to your regularly scheduled NBA finals discussion.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I'm going to point this out once, and you can consider it OFFICIAL.

This is Kingsfans.com We're not here to talk about the Lakers, with few exceptions most Laker fans who have come here have been pains in the arse and haven't lasted very long.

We like our board just like it is. If you're here to talk hoops, you'll do fine BUT if you think you're going to make this into something other than what it is, I'll be perfectly blunt. You won't be around very long.

Take this for whatever you feel it's worth but just remember that you're a guest in our house. Act according...

-----------------------------------------------

I now return you to your regularly scheduled NBA finals discussion.

/CHEERS

 

[Ayala11]

Well I say Boston takes it in six games. Even though I live in Los Angeles I got fed up with the Lakers this season because of all the Kobe Bryant drama. Hopefully both teams will play good basketball.

 

[VF21]

Just a small clarification... We have no problem at all with fans of any team who come here to talk hoops but we're not going to go down the road of some other boards and end up with nothing but Laker-dominated conversations. We have several long-time members of this forum who are well-respected for their takes on basketball even though they are strangely delusional about which team to root for. ( to hoopsfan and Gargamel, among others...)

This could be a finals that will be talked about for a long time so all we're asking is that people keep it civil, keep it about basketball and remember this isn't a Lakers board. If a Lakers fan (or Celtics fan, should any arrive) go too far overboarrd, their posts will be handled in whatever manner the moderators feel appropriate.

------------------------------------------

Now, let's get ready for the NBA finals.

 

[Variant]

So Mike Breen's got a Band-Aid above his left eye which is also almost completely shut. Interesting.

 

[vladetomiller]

You brush on a few decent points, but fail on your first. Really, once the reg. season ends and the seeding is set, the season records and stats can be pretty much done away with. My reference to Denver being the worst defensive team in the playoffs was a reference to just that, not to being the worst defensive team in the regular season (if you want to look up those stats, be my guest).

Also, you are really strawmanning my argument here, that is, attacking it at its weakest point. I might even be able to concede that Atlanta was a weaker opponent than Denver (though I think it's awfully close in the complete opposite ways those teams played in the playoffs) but theres no way I could say that Utah and San Antonio were tougher to beat than Cleveland and Detroit.

Again, the inconsistency remark about Utah was about their play in the playoffs, not the regular season. Seems to be a recurring problem here with your interpretation. Utah had one guy show up every game, and that was Deron Williams. Boozer was completely MIA for every game but Game 3, and Okur was probably the most inconsistent of them all, but at least he had a couple good games. Also their young bench cmpletely under-performed (unlike in the regular season) with the only real performer being Korver.

The Celt's second round opponent on the other hand, faced a team with only one player who played well as well. The difference here, is that it was LeBron James, and not Deron Williams. If Boobie hadnt got hurt, I have no doubt in my mind with that extra bit of help, LeBron could've pulled out game 7, which he very nearly did. Oh, and you talk about thing being hilarious. Your Kleiza to LeBron comparison is just that. Kleiza's made one or two game winners in his career, LeBron has won a series by himself. Look up 2007 ECF if you somehow have been in a hole for a year.

Finally, the Spurs. If you didn't think the Spurs were not at the top of their game, hell not at half the top of their game, you haven't been watching the same Spurs I have the past 7 years. Their age and injuries caught up to them in the Laker series. Not to mention needing the Lakers letting Brent Berry almost pull a savior act in game 4 when no one else on the team could move their creaking bones enough to score or defend on the Lakers. And it wasn't just Manu not at 100%, it was basically their entire team. Detroit or Boston could have swept or 5-gamed SA in the condition they were in.

Finally, you say I'm hiding being Laker hate or something. Where am I hiding? We're right here having our nice conversation, and I'm quite enjoying it. I just wanted to get a little stab in to an obvious Laker fan who was surprised someone didn't agree with him.

I will not disprespect any post by saying it is big ***, if it was I will choose to ignore that post. Anyways I will give it one more shot since it was the first time,

Denver being the worst defensive team in the playoffs - You are comfortably ignoring the regular season which was long enough to understand the team. But since you bring it up just for the playoffs, Doesnt that mean that the lakers were a superior defensive team.

Same for Utah - If their guys who showed up all season did not show up - could it be the lakers.

Spurs - After winning 50+ games in the season their age caught up with them just when playing the lakers. LOL

I accept that all these things you point out are right, they are these teams weaknesses and the lakers took advantage of the same.

But the place where I disagree is that you are trying to belittle the west teams to show as if the celtics opponents were great or better. Celtics are a very good team and they deserve the top seed no doubt, but that doesnt mean you can say that their first round opponent was great.

LOL Detroit could have five games the spurs - Maybe, lakers could have 4 gamed the cavs and 4 gamed the atlanta team with a margin of 50 points a game. Hypothesis is all fun . This is the same pistons team you are talking about that met the spurs a few times in the finals and couldnt beat them. The team is pretty much the same

If you read the post again you will understand about hiding comment - You are trying to hide behind the kingsfan wall for no apparent reason, what has kingsfans got to do with this discussion. You are trying to get some support from kingsfans and thats all i can see to it

 

[Variant]

The Spurs had the tougher path to the WCF for sure... but that's why you play for the #1 seed.

 

[RaY Z]

KG playing for the ring his desperately wanted for all these years...

GO CELTICS!!!

 

[RKid]

I hope Pierce is alright.


Edit: Nevermind Pierce is pulling a Willis Reed.

 

[VF21]

No name calling of Laker players by Celtics fans; no name calling of Celtic players by Laker fans.

Thanks.

 

[VF21]

This is good, hard basketball and it's what the finals should be about, IMHO. Two well-matched teams who should be able to take this through 7 exciting games. Regardless of the names on the jerseys, this is NBA BASKETBALL!!!

 

[Warhawk]

This is good, hard basketball and it's what the finals should be about, IMHO. Two well-matched teams who should be able to take this through 7 exciting games.

Agreed. And I am very happy that Boston will take game 1.

 

[RKid]

God I hate Boston and their mercenaries. This feels like 2004 all over again. The loss is squarely on Kobe, he shot us out of the game.

 

[6th]

Way to start, Big Green!

GO CELTICS!!

 

[D-Mass]

Great game...




....and it ended well, too!

 

[AriesMar27]

and they get 2 days in between games... the celtics might be fresh all series... cassell played pretty well too.... as long as allen and pierce play well they should win.

 

[Variant]

Celts need to win Game 2 though -- can't lose focus. Lakers will watch tape and adjust.... all the Lakers want to do is split.