Why is Kevin Martin playing so poorly?

Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#31
#31
My last point and I am off to bed. If Artest is so detrimental to the team. Why is Brad Miller still scoring over 20 and Beno? Why is Garcia scoring over 20? Why is everybody on the team productive except for Martin? Why is he the only one affected by Ron? Brad shot 16 times and Beno 19 but Rons 14 times shooting is being a ball hog? How is Brad and Beno able to shoot that many times if Artest suposedly has the ball all the time that is 33 possesions not counting fouls and FT attempts. Yet it is all Artest fault that Martin is struggling and everyone else on the team is thriving. Hell even Spencer Hawes is scoring 16pts.

I hope Kevin isn't pointing fingers as much as you fans are if so he needs to turn the finger toward himself for the problem. To many times he and Artest both have had games at the same time in the 30pt range for all of a sudden Artest game to be a problem for him in fact his 43 pt game earlier this year Artest had 28 and shot the ball 16 times which is his average as well as Martins average. Kevin is just in a slump and lacks energy right now. it may in fact be an illness we are unaware of. Just please stop the Artest finger pointing Kevin stepped into the light with Artest here and there is no reason why he can't stay in it while Artest is here.
 
jon e

jon e

Bench
#32
#32
kevin should try comming off the bench the 2nd half of the season. it works well with popp and ginobli. it seems that both of them play the same type of game and poppovich recognized that ginoblis added energy is better than his decline in the 2nd half
 
bloom

bloom

Starter
#33
#33
Entity said:
I hope Kevin isn't pointing fingers as much as you fans are if so he needs to turn the finger toward himself for the problem. To many times he and Artest both have had games at the same time in the 30pt range for all of a sudden Artest game to be a problem for him in fact his 43 pt game earlier this year Artest had 28 and shot the ball 16 times which is his average as well as Martins average. Kevin is just in a slump and lacks energy right now. it may in fact be an illness we are unaware of. Just please stop the Artest finger pointing Kevin stepped into the light with Artest here and there is no reason why he can't stay in it while Artest is here.
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I didn't point Kevin's problem to Ron...I blame Kevin's problem on John. lol Just Joking :D I don't know why Kevin's been down right now. Maybe it is the lack of energy, I don't know. Hopefully he'll get out of it (soon).
 
D13

D13

Bench
#34
#34
Entity said:
My last point and I am off to bed. If Artest is so detrimental to the team. Why is Brad Miller still scoring over 20 and Beno? Why is Garcia scoring over 20? Why is everybody on the team productive except for Martin? Why is he the only one affected by Ron? Brad shot 16 times and Beno 19 but Rons 14 times shooting is being a ball hog? How is Brad and Beno able to shoot that many times if Artest suposedly has the ball all the time that is 33 possesions not counting fouls and FT attempts. Yet it is all Artest fault that Martin is struggling and everyone else on the team is thriving. Hell even Spencer Hawes is scoring 16pts.

I hope Kevin isn't pointing fingers as much as you fans are if so he needs to turn the finger toward himself for the problem. To many times he and Artest both have had games at the same time in the 30pt range for all of a sudden Artest game to be a problem for him in fact his 43 pt game earlier this year Artest had 28 and shot the ball 16 times which is his average as well as Martins average. Kevin is just in a slump and lacks energy right now. it may in fact be an illness we are unaware of. Just please stop the Artest finger pointing Kevin stepped into the light with Artest here and there is no reason why he can't stay in it while Artest is here.
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Dude, you rock. Reason and accountability... +1 ... Closed minds will never admit it.

.
 
Packt

Packt

Starter
#35
#35
When will people stop making excuses for Martin. He's supposed to be our best player but he doesn't elevate any body's game. Instead it's expected that everyone has to elevate him. Whenever people talk about a certain player being bad for the team, it's almost always sly speak for said player affecting Kevin's scoring numbers. Go up and down the league and any wing player worth their salt averages more assists than Kevin. Dude is a black hole on offense. He runs around a lot, moves a lot, so what. That's due to his own short comings. There's talk of more ball movement but it always stops at Kevin.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#36
#36
The Kevin apologist = Peja apologist thing I obviously have always agreed with, hell maybe even pioneered. The similarities in the fan dynamic of both players have always been disturbing to say the least. Put up similar numbers, play similar roles, golden boys, ridiculous inflated expectations, everybody else is the bad guy for not making them better, need to trade teammates to get them the ball more, need to change coaches, whatever. So I agree there obviously.

But all that stuff is just about us, the fans -- we create all that drama. It doesn't go to the real phenomenon (unless you buy those spurious arguments) of Kevin sputtering here. And this sputtering has been going on for weeks now, since before the All Star game and Bibby trade. And what is causing it exactly? People forget that last year Kevin Martin really struggled in the final two months of the season, averaging 18.2pts on 42% shooting in March/April (and likely losing himself his Most Improved Player Award in the process). So far in February this year? 18.2pts on 40.2% shooting.

Is it the same phenomena? If so what is it? Last year I thought maybe fatigue, physical or mental. Is that it again? But physical fatigue seems less likely this time because of the long time off with injury. So mental fatigue? Tired of the coach? A losing season? Or is it somehting else? Have teams adjusted again? Of course question then would be why they would have unadjusted to start this season after adjusting at the end of last year. I don't have these answers, but if this continues (and who knows, maybe its just a long slump he will snap out of) it will be very odd that it happened two years in a row. The personnel has barely changed. Mostly same people that have been here all year are here now (Mike was really only with us the one month). Same coach. But different Kevin. Why?
 
K

kyo2002

G-League
#37
#37
Am I sensing hate on Kevin now? I thought Ron was the enemy for everyone who likes to bicker. If you watch the games you'll notice that teams are very much aware of Ron and Kevin. They probably figured those two are the ones likely to score the ball. Beno, Moore, and Miller aren't real threats. Beno always trys to create mostly with the high pick, Miller constantly looks to pass from the high post, Moore lives exclusively on hand offs. With Bibby gone Martin is the only outside threat and is getting the Rick Fox defense. Plus, he's a slow set shooter. Artest seems to be doubled and even tripled teamed the majority of the time and can't pass to the open man. Scouts should already have noted that a 2-3 zone will kill the Kings every time. The Kings have resorted to having Miller shoot threes. Kings need a guy whose not afraid to light it up and keep the defense honest. So far Garcia is the only guy to step up.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#38
#38
kyo2002 said:
Am I sensing hate on Kevin now? I thought Ron was the enemy for everyone who likes to bicker. If you watch the games you'll notice that teams are very much aware of Ron and Kevin. They probably figured those two are the ones likely to score the ball. Beno, Moore, and Miller aren't real threats. Beno always trys to create mostly with the high pick, Miller constantly looks to pass from the high post, Moore lives exclusively on hand offs. With Bibby gone Martin is the only outside threat and is getting the Rick Fox defense. Plus, he's a slow set shooter. Artest seems to be doubled and even tripled teamed the majority of the time and can't pass to the open man. Scouts should already have noted that a 2-3 zone will kill the Kings every time. The Kings have resorted to having Miller shoot threes. Kings need a guy whose not afraid to light it up and keep the defense honest. So far Garcia is the only guy to step up.
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a) "hate on Kevin" would of course be the final phase of the Peja comparison. Golden boy cannot do any wrong, elevated too high, fails, resentment builds, people who resented the false elevation along with people feeling "betrayed" that he didn't live up to their expectations. It is a sick cycle. Kevin is just Kevin.

b) all this focus on Kevin's slump is legit, focused on the very real phenomenon of Kevin really struggling. But all of this stuff about how Kevin = struggling means our offense is dead and struggling is belied by us scoring 117pts tonight. What, we were supposed to score 130?
 
treewoman

treewoman

Bench
#39
#39
For the past three games Kevin has looked ill to me. He has very dark circles under his eyes and he just doesn't look right to me. We keep hearing about all these players being ill on teams we have played so I am guessing he has been exposed to some nasty germs. I am betting Kevin is like my son and would colapse before he stands down (or sees a doc). So my theory is that he is ill and playing anyway. If that is the case I am impressed that he has been able to do what he has. Really I don't think there is a more logical explination.

By the way, this is not an "excuse" for him. I have not been on the board for a few days and had considered posting a thread to see if anyone else noticed him looking ill.
 
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rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#40
#40
Kevin needs to correct the form on his shot this offseason. He cant continue to rely on teamates to look for him to get him going in a game. He has the ability to go one on one but untill his jumper improves he won't score consistently. That being said.... he needs to stop waiting for theus to call a play for him and for are artest to pass him the ball. When he gets the ball he needs to attack the hoop, relentlessly, like he did the first 2 months of the season.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#41
#41
Freud 101

Bricklayer said:
Is it the same phenomena? If so what is it? Last year I thought maybe fatigue, physical or mental. Is that it again? But physical fatigue seems less likely this time because of the long time off with injury. So mental fatigue? Tired of the coach? A losing season? Or is it somehting else? Have teams adjusted again? Of course question then would be why they would have unadjusted to start this season after adjusting at the end of last year. I don't have these answers, but if this continues (and who knows, maybe its just a long slump he will snap out of) it will be very odd that it happened two years in a row. The personnel has barely changed. Mostly same people that have been here all year are here now (Mike was really only with us the one month). Same coach. But different Kevin. Why?
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I'll give you my best psychoanalysis.:D I think everyone can agree that Kevin is more passive now than at the beginning of the season. And, like you say, physical fatigue just doesn't seem to be the reason behind it. So, what are the factors leading to passivity? Above all, the belief that there are so many external things outside of your control that there is no point to it all. What are the things outside of his control? Number one on the list: A losing team. He starts the season with hope eternal about winning and the playoffs and a new coach. Now, Petrie trades his best bud, another thing outside his control, and basically waives the white flag for the season. He doesn't get more talent on the team, he gets less. So, that leads to the next thing that leads to his passivity - the absence of a meaningful goal. But, you say, Theus still talks about the playoffs and Theus talks about a goal of .500 for the season. Well, those aren't meaningful goals, at least not to Kevin. Nobody believes in the playoff goal, and what veteran gets excited about playing to be .500? That is the absolute definition of mediocrity. You might as well tell the team that we've really got to step up our effort so we can be mediocre at the end of the season. To put it mildly, that's not highly inspirational. Another thing outside of his control is that Kevin knows a lot of the guys he is playing with will be gone by next season; everything is in transition. It's hard to tie youself to the ship when the ship is being slowly dismembered. The next thing outside his control is his role on the team. I don't know if it's him or Theus or both, but he's become a facilitator rather than a dominator. And maybe that's due to another thing outside of his control - teams are focusing their defensive attention on him more than ever. Being a facilitator, especially one on a losing team, is probably not what gets Kevin going...

So if some of the above is correct, what is the answer? He must find something personally meaningful about basketbal that inspires him. Let's say that the most exciting thing that he can imagine is being a great scorer, a Hall of Fame scorer. Well, then, he's got to go out there and hoist up 25+ shots a game, demand the freaking ball, and don't take bleep from anybody (Artest/Theus) that tells him otherwise. He's got to tell Theus to run more plays for him. He's got to demand that he's THE GUY when it comes to scoring. That means he loses the "nice guy" personna and embraces the "bad boy". Being the conciliatory nice guy is just keeping him in the passive role. He needs to get in touch with his Kobe self...
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#42
#42
^^Wow. Good stuff.

At the risk of appearing as though I'm beating a dead horse, I'll add one more:

It's being reported that Artest is continually fighting with Theus. We've seen glimpses and Amick is reporting it as an ongoing problem. Martin could be feeling some of the fallout from that situation.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#43
#43
rainmaker said:
Kevin needs to correct the form on his shot this offseason. He cant continue to rely on teamates to look for him to get him going in a game. He has the ability to go one on one but untill his jumper improves he won't score consistently. That being said.... he needs to stop waiting for theus to call a play for him and for are artest to pass him the ball. When he gets the ball he needs to attack the hoop, relentlessly, like he did the first 2 months of the season.
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He's not going to change his shot. Nor should he. It works for him. He's used that shot his entire career.

I'm not sure what's wrong with Kevin but it's not his shot. I think it's more likely that he's letting outside forces affect him. And by "outside" I mean anything and everything that can impact a player. Other players? Disagreement over coaching philosophies? Other problems? Illness?

I like Kevin Martin and his game - a lot. I love having him in the uniform of the Sacramento Kings. I am pretty much one of the "Martin homers" around here and have been from the very beginning.

BUT ...

Kevin needs to suck it up and play. He needs to put whatever is getting to him out of his mind and play the game he's capable of playing. He's a big-time professional NBA player now, and he needs to act like it by bringing his game every night and doing whatever it takes to help his team.

If he's not happy with his minutes, which seems to be what Amick was hinting at, he needs to be so strong on the court Reggie can't possibly take him out for long stretches of time. If he's not happy with how many touches he's getting, he needs to verbalize that with the rest of the team. He needs to stand up for himself and demand that he be allowed to play his game and contribute to the team.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#44
#44
Kingster said:
I'll give you my best psychoanalysis.:D I think everyone can agree that Kevin is more passive now than at the beginning of the season. And, like you say, physical fatigue just doesn't seem to be the reason behind it. So, what are the factors leading to passivity? Above all, the belief that there are so many external things outside of your control that there is no point to it all. What are the things outside of his control? Number one on the list: A losing team. He starts the season with hope eternal about winning and the playoffs and a new coach. Now, Petrie trades his best bud, another thing outside his control, and basically waives the white flag for the season. He doesn't get more talent on the team, he gets less. So, that leads to the next thing that leads to his passivity - the absence of a meaningful goal. But, you say, Theus still talks about the playoffs and Theus talks about a goal of .500 for the season. Well, those aren't meaningful goals, at least not to Kevin. Nobody believes in the playoff goal, and what veteran gets excited about playing to be .500? That is the absolute definition of mediocrity. You might as well tell the team that we've really got to step up our effort so we can be mediocre at the end of the season. To put it mildly, that's not highly inspirational. Another thing outside of his control is that Kevin knows a lot of the guys he is playing with will be gone by next season; everything is in transition. It's hard to tie youself to the ship when the ship is being slowly dismembered. The next thing outside his control is his role on the team. I don't know if it's him or Theus or both, but he's become a facilitator rather than a dominator. And maybe that's due to another thing outside of his control - teams are focusing their defensive attention on him more than ever. Being a facilitator, especially one on a losing team, is probably not what gets Kevin going...

So if some of the above is correct, what is the answer? He must find something personally meaningful about basketbal that inspires him. Let's say that the most exciting thing that he can imagine is being a great scorer, a Hall of Fame scorer. Well, then, he's got to go out there and hoist up 25+ shots a game, demand the freaking ball, and don't take bleep from anybody (Artest/Theus) that tells him otherwise. He's got to tell Theus to run more plays for him. He's got to demand that he's THE GUY when it comes to scoring. That means he loses the "nice guy" personna and embraces the "bad boy". Being the conciliatory nice guy is just keeping him in the passive role. He needs to get in touch with his Kobe self...
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I agree. Kevin definately needs to demand the ball and ditch the nice guy personna. I would also add that kevin no longer knows how many minutes he will play and what hes playing for. A shot at the playoffs or rebuilding. He played a terrible game in charlotte and theus kept him in for extended minutes. The following game he has 21/10/5 and theus pulls him out and he doesn't return untill 6 mins left and kings are down by 19. In kevins mind even if he busts his *** and is playing great he knows theus might pull him and he will have to watch artest jack up shot after shot in the fourth. There is no consistency in the way theus coaches him.Theus alos seems to call two cosecutive plays for kevin at random times in the game and then will follow it up by going away from him for extended periods of time. Kevin does need to demand the ball but theus sure isn't helping.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#45
#45
Kingster said:
I'll give you my best psychoanalysis.:D I think everyone can agree that Kevin is more passive now than at the beginning of the season. And, like you say, physical fatigue just doesn't seem to be the reason behind it. So, what are the factors leading to passivity? Above all, the belief that there are so many external things outside of your control that there is no point to it all. What are the things outside of his control? Number one on the list: A losing team. He starts the season with hope eternal about winning and the playoffs and a new coach. Now, Petrie trades his best bud, another thing outside his control, and basically waives the white flag for the season. He doesn't get more talent on the team, he gets less. So, that leads to the next thing that leads to his passivity - the absence of a meaningful goal. But, you say, Theus still talks about the playoffs and Theus talks about a goal of .500 for the season. Well, those aren't meaningful goals, at least not to Kevin. Nobody believes in the playoff goal, and what veteran gets excited about playing to be .500? That is the absolute definition of mediocrity. You might as well tell the team that we've really got to step up our effort so we can be mediocre at the end of the season. To put it mildly, that's not highly inspirational. Another thing outside of his control is that Kevin knows a lot of the guys he is playing with will be gone by next season; everything is in transition. It's hard to tie youself to the ship when the ship is being slowly dismembered. The next thing outside his control is his role on the team. I don't know if it's him or Theus or both, but he's become a facilitator rather than a dominator. And maybe that's due to another thing outside of his control - teams are focusing their defensive attention on him more than ever. Being a facilitator, especially one on a losing team, is probably not what gets Kevin going...

So if some of the above is correct, what is the answer? He must find something personally meaningful about basketbal that inspires him. Let's say that the most exciting thing that he can imagine is being a great scorer, a Hall of Fame scorer. Well, then, he's got to go out there and hoist up 25+ shots a game, demand the freaking ball, and don't take bleep from anybody (Artest/Theus) that tells him otherwise. He's got to tell Theus to run more plays for him. He's got to demand that he's THE GUY when it comes to scoring. That means he loses the "nice guy" personna and embraces the "bad boy". Being the conciliatory nice guy is just keeping him in the passive role. He needs to get in touch with his Kobe self...
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An interesting take, and I hope its not the case. Let me put it this way. I, like many of you I'm sure, played a lot of sports when, well, when I was young , and I'm sure many of you who are still young still do. I had the privilige of playing in the lower dredges of pro baseball. I had the privilege of playing with some very good players in the early stages of their careers.

I never knew one good player that needed inspiration from anyone but himself to play hard every time out. Great players never think their going to lose, and they don't quit just because their behind. But most of all, they love to play the game, and they don't know any other way to play but all out. I always thought that I was just as good as anyone else on my team. I wasn't of course, but that was the mentality I had, and I wasn't going to let anyone else decide my future but me. I've seen a lot of players with great talent, but lacked that special thing, all great players have between their ears. One thing a great player has to have is a short memory, and I don't think Martin does.
I knew great hitters, that when someone struck them out, it was never the pitcher that got them out, it was always some mistake they had made. In other words, no one was capable of getting them out, unless they made a mistake. No one intimidated them.

I'll finish by saying that I like Martin, but we are all responsible for ourselves. Whatever his problem is, and it may be something off the court for all we know, its no one elses fault, but his. And its his responsiblilty to fix it. If he thinks that someone else on the team is hindering his ability as a player, he has a mouth, use it..
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#46
#46
VF21 said:
^^Wow. Good stuff.

At the risk of appearing as though I'm beating a dead horse, I'll add one more:

It's being reported that Artest is continually fighting with Theus. We've seen glimpses and Amick is reporting it as an ongoing problem. Martin could be feeling some of the fallout from that situation.
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Thanks. And as far as the Artest-Theus issue, again it comes down to how Martin wants to respond to it. Does he play the nice guy go-along-to-get along backseat approach, or does he put the Superman cape on and demand to be the #1 scorer on this team?
 
F

FakeInjury

Bench
#47
#47
Artest fixes itself. Kevin Martin is working on changing his shot, I can 1000% insure this. I change my shot all the time, and it's healthy for ones' "game". In the short run, Kevin "slumping" is more favorable now than next year. The Kings are playing it political when it comes to players' n' personnel.

For example:
Bonzi declines Xmillion, Martin is extended for Xmillion
Bibby is our beloved long tenured talented star, traded to a contending team

Both are very political moves, that say, The Kings treat their players very fairly. Who cares about Martin's slump, when the politics are so much more entertaining.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#49
#49
There is clearly something wrong with Kevin. You can see emotions on his face and none of them are good. Frustration, anger, disgust, apathy, stubborness. Is he sick? Maybe. But he struggled similarly at the end of last season. Same sickness?

I really, really like Kevin, but he's no rookie or the "kid" anymore (that's Hawes;)). He's an NBA starter. He really can't rely on anyone else to to straighten things out for him anymore. If he's being told to do things he doesn't like, if he's pi**ed when the refs don't give him the call, if he's mad at a teammate(s) or the boss or.....?

Well, that's the grownup working world. You have to find a way to do your job to the best of your ability, despite the situation and environment around you. The only concession I'll make is that an NBA player doesn't really have the option to quit and get a job elsewhere, if he really hates where he is. Well not unless you throw a public hissy fit and demand a trade. That's so unattractive, though. ;)
 
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bloom

bloom

Starter
#50
#50
Does anyone think Kevin is pouting/moping? I was listening to the Grant and Mike Show and Grant (I know a lot of people don’t like him/his thoughts but putting personal feelings aside) said that he thinks that Kevin is moping around on the court and bench.
 
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kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#51
#51
As I said in my post above, you can see all kinds of feelings on his face and they all look like he's feeling pretty negative. He's not hiding feelings.

I don't actually know what's wrong or exactly what he's feeling. For all I know, it's something in his personal life, not basketball. He just flat-out looks unhappy to me and has for a little while now.
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#52
#52
bloom said:
I was listening to the Grant and Mike Show and Grant (I know a lot of people don’t like him/his thoughts but putting personal feelings aside) said that he thinks that Kevin is moping around on the court and bench.
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The only person on KHTK who I find to be the least bit credible is Carmichael Dave. The others impress me as nothing more than propaganda mouthpieces for MS&E.

After years of not listening to any of those other guys, last night I had to drive for hours, so broke my usual rule and sat through a couple of hours of Koz and company, while waiting for Carmichael Dave. There was a really interesting transition between shows, where Koz stuck around for the first 10 minutes or so of Dave's show, and the two (sort of) discussed some of their differences. Koz and company had all agreed, without a word of discussion, about things like playing Moore over Hawes, saying that Hawes was too inexperienced to deserve more time. Dave, on the other hand, said that all of the young players should be getting developed, that Hawes was at least as good as Mikki now, and that playing people like Mikki was senseless even if they were better, since wins have no value at this point. Koz had essentially no response to any of those things, other than the occasional "Really?" It was as if he'd never encountered the idea of a rebuild before. He wasn't willing to discuss any of that, and he couldn't hang up on Dave, so he just waited until he could say goodbye, and then left.

Of course they are all familiar with ideas like playing the kids, and they must have known for weeks that the team has had approximately zero chance of making the playoffs, something they've only started to acknowledge quite recently. But if they refuse to discuss those ideas, or pretend that they don't exist or are inappropriate, then they are functioning as basketball idiots, and I really can't take a thing they say as anything but disinformation.

It's nothing personal, they're just horrible sources of information, in my opinion.
 
Sac4cwebb

Sac4cwebb

G-League
#53
#53
Jerichoholic said:
I don't think Martin likes to be passive, he just feels that he needs to, especially with Artest on the floor with him. During his current slump he has spent 95% of the time standing in the corner or running aimlessly around screens, moving for the sake of moving but not getting open. When he gets the ball up top he gets rid of it just as quickly.

This is not Martin's game, he is not best playing off of others like Peja or Bibby were. He is much better at making his own plays, controlling the ball, having the offense set up around his strengths. Right now the offense is set up exactly the opposite of Martin's style of play. Artest and Mikki and their defenders clog the lane preventing Martin from driving. The floor spacing is poor preventing him from shooting open threes. Also when he comes off of screens it's always on the opposite side of the key as to where the ball is. That is a bad thing on a team when the ball movement is slow and sometimes nonexistant.

As a result of all of this his confidence is shaken and as we know he isn't the mentally strongest player.
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Sounds very similar to John Salmons situation. Reggie needs to get this figured out and fix it!
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#54
#54
fnordius said:
The only person on KHTK who I find to be the least bit credible is Carmichael Dave. The others impress me as nothing more than propaganda mouthpieces for MS&E.

After years of not listening to any of those other guys, last night I had to drive for hours, so broke my usual rule and sat through a couple of hours of Koz and company, while waiting for Carmichael Dave. There was a really interesting transition between shows, where Koz stuck around for the first 10 minutes or so of Dave's show, and the two (sort of) discussed some of their differences. Koz and company had all agreed, without a word of discussion, about things like playing Moore over Hawes, saying that Hawes was too inexperienced to deserve more time. Dave, on the other hand, said that all of the young players should be getting developed, that Hawes was at least as good as Mikki now, and that playing people like Mikki was senseless even if they were better, since wins have no value at this point. Koz had essentially no response to any of those things, other than the occasional "Really?" It was as if he'd never encountered the idea of a rebuild before. He wasn't willing to discuss any of that, and he couldn't hang up on Dave, so he just waited until he could say goodbye, and then left.

Of course they are all familiar with ideas like playing the kids, and they must have known for weeks that the team has had approximately zero chance of making the playoffs, something they've only started to acknowledge quite recently. But if they refuse to discuss those ideas, or pretend that they don't exist or are inappropriate, then they are functioning as basketball idiots, and I really can't take a thing they say as anything but disinformation.

It's nothing personal, they're just horrible sources of information, in my opinion.
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Couldn't agree more. It's like listening to a Soviet station before the iron curtain fell. The only reason for listening is to know what the party line is and then sometimes to hear what is not being said.
 
F

FakeInjury

Bench
#57
#57
VF21 said:
May I enquire how you know with 1000% assurance that Martin is working on changing his shot?[

Yes. I know this, because when shots don't fall for Martin specifically, his shooting technique is going to be the first suspect in the case. This alone causes work with one's shot. Kevin being a professional ball player has a lot to do with it as well. Combine those factors along with 20+ "free" games. I wont say I "saw" a change, but i did see a different rotation on the ball as of late....im 1000% sure he's working on it.
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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#58
#58
Ah, okay. So this is just your assessment. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Why? Because Kev hasn't changed his shot since junior high. Even Pete Carril finally admitted it was his natural shot and, just like Reggie Miller, it worked for him. He's not gonna change it.
 
F

FakeInjury

Bench
#59
#59
VF21 said:
Ah, okay. So this is just your assessment. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Why? Because Kev hasn't changed his shot since junior high. Even Pete Carril finally admitted it was his natural shot and, just like Reggie Miller, it worked for him. He's not gonna change it.
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Would you allow me to ask when the confirmation of Pete Carril admitting defeat was published? I would like to venture a guess if i may, 2005 am i wrong?
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#60
#60
Whatever, dude. If you want to believe Martin is going to attempt to change the shot, feel free to do so. But don't be too disappointed when it doesn't happen.
 
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