Voisin: It's a test of King-sized wills

[VF21]

Ailene Voisin: It's a test of King-size wills
By Ailene Voisin - avoisin@sacbee.com
Last Updated 12:09 am PST Friday, November 16, 2007
Story appeared in SPORTS section, Page C1

So Broadway goes dark on us, does it? Not a problem in sleepy little Sacramento. The New York Knicks, who make their annual visit tonight to Arco Arena, should feel right at home.

The lights are on. The curtain's up.

Reggie Theus promised drama, and with little prompting, is delivering his lines. He has imposed a curfew and banned cell phones, and is on pace to bench players more often and more abruptly than any Kings coach in recent memory. Eric Musselman is an overly indulgent Boy Scout leader by comparison.

Theus defers to no one, offers barely a nod to conventional wisdom, and is seemingly oblivious to the notion that NBA coaching is an inherently risky business. His philosophy about his current employment goes something like this: His players embrace their roles and follow his directions, remain competitive while en route to the playoffs or the lottery, or he will adjust his tie, pack up his car, and take his show on the road.

It's his way or the highway back to Hollywood.

The rest of the story...

 

[Bricklayer]

What we seem to have here is a coach determined to play chicken, and running the considerable risk of getting himself (and us) squished in the process. Self-righteous hubris is normally not the path to success for rookie coaches. If Reggie's huffing and puffing is to be believed, he is committed to a zero sum game. Either he "wins", everyone else caves, and they do it "his way" and bend over to take whatever abuse he chooses to lavish. Or he loses, and that's going to be a real mess that's going to in all liklihood necessitate firing him for setting us back.

And the part that annoys me about all this is its completely unnecessary. All Reggie had/has to do is play it cool. Teach principles, bring some order and enthusiasm, develop the kids and a little comraderie, and he would survive this year and get a chance at another. Even if we sucked, I truly believe that's all it would have taken for him in Yr 1 to get his Yr 2 with hopefully a better team. After the Muss thing, the last thing we want to do is fire another coach, end up having to hire our 4th in 4 years, and be paying two guys who failed (Muss, Reg) as well as the next coach. But now coming in here as a rookie coach with more years of coaching on TV (3) than coaching in college (2) and going all Rambo about it is a complete waste. It threatens a debacle if you fail, and almost forces our hand when all we need you to do is keep order and soothe things over until we can turn things around.

I'm not going to write a coach off after only 8 games. But if his attitude is that he already knows everything he needs to know, that this is just the way its going to be, that he's got it all figured out...well, he's writing himself off without anybody else's help. Because he doesn't have it all figured out, and I have no idea where he got the idea that he did, or he is even supposed to at this point in his career.

 

[chelle]

Brick, I rarely find myself agreeing totally with you, but in this, you are I are completly on the same page. I can take the losing. I expected it this season. What I did not expect this early in the season is all this mess. No matter how I try to sugar coat it or find the good - I can't see any of this as ok. The scary part is that this is just November. If actions are not taken to clean this up soon, it will spiral out of control.

 

[piksi]

When this explodes (and it will), someone will be picking up pieces for years to come

 

[Wuster]

All Reggie had/has to do is play it cool. Teach principles, bring some order and enthusiasm, develop the kids and a little comraderie, and he would survive this year and get a chance at another. Even if we sucked, I truly believe that's all it would have taken for him in Yr 1 to get his Yr 2 with hopefully a better team. After the Muss thing, the last thing we want to do is fire another coach, end up having to hire our 4th in 4 years, and be paying two guys who failed (Muss, Reg) as well as the next coach. But now coming in here as a rookie coach with more years of coaching on TV (3) than coaching in college (2) and going all Rambo about it is a complete waste. It threatens a debacle if you fail, and almost forces our hand when all we need you to do is keep order and soothe things over until we can turn things around.

Nice take, Bricklayer. Reggie's approach might be appropriate and highly effective with a college team, but not the recipe for success for a rookie coach in the NBA world. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. Going about it like Rambo with the outcome of a debacle seems inevitable; the beginnings are happening. He's going to have to adjust.

 

[mazzystar]

I expected to see lots of loosing this year. But, I took solace in the fact that hey, the kids would develop and it would be fun. WRONG! It's still early but I do not like how things have been going. I thought Muss was bad, and annoyed the heck out of me for yanking kevin, now Theus! This is going to be a long long season, and it doesn't seem like it's going to be enjoyable at all.

 

[Mozart]

What was said, anybody?

• Kenny Thomas and Theus exchanged words in the home opener and in full view of the home crowd.

Did anybody catch those words?


And nice commentaries, everyone, on the coach/players situation. It's more risky than I had originally thought. I hope that it all mellows out.

 

[nbrans]

Allow me to play armchair psychologist.

Theus is puffing out his chest and talking (and acting) a big confident game right now, but I really don't think he's coaching from a position of confidence. It's almost like he has absorbed all of those knocks on him over the years as a player -- that he was a soft defender, that he was not serious, that he wasn't a winner, that he was just a pretty boy -- and has decided that he is going to come out and prove the world wrong as a coach.

So here we have a former player who is coaching defense, is being way too serious, ok, well, he's still not winning, and trying to show everyone that he's the toughest coach on the block. It's almost like he's denying himself.

And this isn't a great formula. He's giving up everything he's really good at -- being charistmatic, being a good guy, making losing look good -- in the service of pursuing some pie in the sky notion of what it means to be a good, tough coach. So it's not really a confident Theus we're getting -- it's almost like we're getting the nightmarish sum of all of Theus' anxieties as a former player and person.

This is exactly what this team DOESN'T need. This team needs Theus the good, charismatic, lackadaisacal guy that you want to like. Who gives a eff about defense at this point? Just open up the offense, let the guys have a good time and lose lose lose. There are no expectations except the ones Theus is creating in his own head.

Deep down Theus is a supremely confident and stubborn guy, and I'm sure he will not back down from his game of chicken. Of course, when both sides "win" a game of chicken it involves a horrific head-on car crash. We're just about there.

 

[Kingster]

I admire the heck out of Theus. He's dealing with a bunch of children and he's not going to back down when they throw tantrums and go waaaa, waaa, waaa. He's willing to take it to the limit: either he does it his way, or he's willing to leave. He's not going to compromise his integrity because of the immaturity of this team.

Now what I'd like to see is the Maloofs and Petrie stepping up - manning up - and have a meeting with all players present. Their message? It's Theus's way or the highway! Theus runs the show, not you. And you better start acting like professionals rather than spoiled children or else you're gone. And that includes EVERYBODY. Then Theus's power would be absolute and the spoiled children act would come to an end.

 

[piksi]

Then Theus's power would be absolute and the spoiled children act would come to an end.

that is pretty naive thinking. In the times of guaranteed contracts - players have more "room" to act. How are they going to het rid of players when no one else wants them

 

[kennadog]

I admire the heck out of Theus. He's dealing with a bunch of children and he's not going to back down when they throw tantrums and go waaaa, waaa, waaa. He's willing to take it to the limit: either he does it his way, or he's willing to leave. He's not going to compromise his integrity because of the immaturity of this team.

Now what I'd like to see is the Maloofs and Petrie stepping up - manning up - and have a meeting with all players present. Their message? It's Theus's way or the highway! Theus runs the show, not you. And you better start acting like professionals rather than spoiled children or else you're gone. And that includes EVERYBODY. Then Theus's power would be absolute and the spoiled children act would come to an end.

So what do we do when the full revolt is on and Theus needs to bench everyone? Forfeit games? As to getting rid of everyone, good luck with that. Meanwhile you have a gigantic mess.

 

[Kingster]

What we seem to have here is a coach determined to play chicken, and running the considerable risk of getting himself (and us) squished in the process. Self-righteous hubris is normally not the path to success for rookie coaches. If Reggie's huffing and puffing is to be believed, he is committed to a zero sum game. Either he "wins", everyone else caves, and they do it "his way" and bend over to take whatever abuse he chooses to lavish. Or he loses, and that's going to be a real mess that's going to in all liklihood necessitate firing him for setting us back.

And the part that annoys me about all this is its completely unnecessary. All Reggie had/has to do is play it cool. Teach principles, bring some order and enthusiasm, develop the kids and a little comraderie, and he would survive this year and get a chance at another. Even if we sucked, I truly believe that's all it would have taken for him in Yr 1 to get his Yr 2 with hopefully a better team. After the Muss thing, the last thing we want to do is fire another coach, end up having to hire our 4th in 4 years, and be paying two guys who failed (Muss, Reg) as well as the next coach. But now coming in here as a rookie coach with more years of coaching on TV (3) than coaching in college (2) and going all Rambo about it is a complete waste. It threatens a debacle if you fail, and almost forces our hand when all we need you to do is keep order and soothe things over until we can turn things around.

I'm not going to write a coach off after only 8 games. But if his attitude is that he already knows everything he needs to know, that this is just the way its going to be, that he's got it all figured out...well, he's writing himself off without anybody else's help. Because he doesn't have it all figured out, and I have no idea where he got the idea that he did, or he is even supposed to at this point in his career.

I have no concern whatsoever of getting "squished". Are you in fear of Theus "squishing" you? If so, please explain. "Huffing and puffing"? I don't see it. Where is it? As for "hubris", one man's hubris is another man's grit. If hubris is not backing down from what he wants to happen on the floor, so be it. Then I admire the heck out of him for that hubris. Forget about "being cool". That's for a man who wants to be liked, not a man that wants to teach. Theus does want to teach "principles", but what you don't understand is that in order to teach "principles" you have to enforce discipline and define roles and boundaries. And THAT is the rub: These young "men" are rebelling against the roles, boundaries, and discipline that is absolutely necessary to teach principles. Principles are not just abstract concepts that are to be meditated upon. For principles to mean anything, they must be demonstrated in CONDUCT. And by attacking Theus, you are undermining his teaching of principles, the very thing that you advocate him teaching.

 

[nbrans]

And by attacking Theus, you are undermining his teaching of principles, the very thing that you advocate him teaching.

lol, no offense, but this is hilarious.

If you attack Theus, the terrorists have already won.

 

[sidney]

Don't mind Theus taking this route. He knows this will not be a winning season so would call this season a success if he creates a) an environment of discipline and a strong work ethic and b) a place where playing time is earned and not given due to past success/ego. This method is much more friendly to young players than declining vets. If there is any time to establish this, it is now. Everyone knows they won't win this year.

 

[piksi]

Don't mind Theus taking this route. He knows this will not be a winning season so would call this season a success if he creates a) an environment of discipline and a strong work ethic and b) a place where playing time is earned and not given due to past success/ego. This method is much more friendly to young players than declining vets. If there is any time to establish this, it is now. Everyone knows they won't win this year.

Theus = Muss "lite"

Theus = optimus Muss

neither one is good enough

 

[nbrans]

Don't mind Theus taking this route. He knows this will not be a winning season so would call this season a success if he creates a) an environment of discipline and a strong work ethic and b) a place where playing time is earned and not given due to past success/ego. This method is much more friendly to young players than declining vets. If there is any time to establish this, it is now. Everyone knows they won't win this year.

I just don't understand why people thinks this works! It plays so much better wtih fans who think players are spoiled brats in need of discipline rather than those who think they are some of the most talented and hardworking people in the world. They should be respected, not treated like children.

How are things going for Scott Skiles? How about Mike Fratello? Doug Collins? Eric Musselman? Bob Hill?

 

[sidney]

Theus = Muss "lite"

Theus = optimus Muss

neither one is good enough

Muss caved and changed strategies a few times. Be tough, failed. Emphasize defense first, failed. Become buddies with the players, failed. Never got around to trying to develop young players. Never stuck to a strategy. He was a mess. We'll see if Reggie cracks under pressure and starts asking if players feel like coming out of the game, but until then he has stated clearly what he is doing and is carrying it out so far.

 

[sidney]

I just don't understand why people thinks this works! It plays so much better wtih fans who think players are spoiled brats in need of discipline rather than those who think they are some of the most talented and hardworking people in the world. They should be respected, not treated like children.

How are things going for Scott Skiles? How about Mike Fratello? Doug Collins? Eric Musselman? Bob Hill?

Good. Let's start negotiating and adjusting to the feelings of Kenny Thomas, Shareef, and Mikki Moore. They are some of the most talented people in the world. We should make sure they are happy.

 

[nbrans]

Good. Let's start negotiating and adjusting to the feelings of Kenny Thomas, Shareef, and Mikki Moore. They are some of the most talented people in the world. We should make sure they are happy.

They are some of the most talented people in the world!! Look, it's easy to lose sight of this fact because they play against even more talented players, but do you know how many people are better power forwards than them in the entire world? About 30. 30 out of 6 billion. They are world class.

And talent alone doesn't get you to the NBA. You have to have talent and work ridiculously hard to get there.

I just don't think it's a good strategy in the long run to treat players like children. There are a couple of coaches who make it work, but they are who they are. Sloan was born a hardass and he'll die a hardass.

Reggie is playing a part. He's a phony right now. And it's not going to work for him. The writing is already on the wall. He shouldn't be afraid to be likeble and even lackadaisacal. Keep people accountable but don't come in trying to smash everyone into submission.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

Theus does want to teach "principles", but what you don't understand is that in order to teach "principles" you have to enforce discipline and define roles and boundaries. And THAT is the rub: These young "men" are rebelling against the roles, boundaries, and discipline that is absolutely necessary to teach principles. Principles are not just abstract concepts that are to be meditated upon. For principles to mean anything, they must be demonstrated in CONDUCT.

I would agree that Theus's role would be teach principles - if he was coaching in college.

But he isn't in college. he's coaching professionals. Some are young, but the majority of the team is 27 and older - Salmons (27), Artest (27), Miller (31), SAR (31), Bibby (29), Moore (32), Thomas (30). He's coaching a lot of grown men. And we, as a society, expect grown men to already have principles.

It's not the young men who have been giving Theus problems, its the grown men Theus isn't getting along with well. Its the grown men (SAR, Salmons)that Theus is working with as a team to get things figured out and going right. It's the grown men that are the reality in the NBA that already have their principles identified that Theus needs to work with.

I'm not writing Theus off, and think that this is being overblown right now. but when I read a post a little up, about an easygoing Theus preaching fluid uptempo offense and playing young guys and promoting a fun atmosphere instead of a "my way/try harder" atmosphere, I really wish we had a coach who was more representative of the player he used to be.

 

[sidney]

They are some of the most talented people in the world!! Look, it's easy to lose sight of this fact because they play against even more talented players, but do you know how many people are better power forwards than them in the entire world? About 30. 30 out of 6 billion. They are world class.

And talent alone doesn't get you to the NBA. You have to have talent and work ridiculously hard to get there.

I just don't think it's a good strategy in the long run to treat players like children. There are a couple of coaches who make it work, but they are who they are. Sloan was born a hardass and he'll die a hardass.

Reggie is playing a part. He's a phony right now. And it's not going to work for him. The writing is already on the wall. He shouldn't be afraid to be likeble and even lackadaisacal. Keep people accountable but don't come in trying to smash everyone into submission.

Starting Artest over Salmons and still giving him 25+ minutes is treating him like a child? And he's supposed to put up with him storming out of the locker room?

McCants put up a carreer high against Martin, Martin still played 36 minutes, and is upset because he is "benched"?

Mikki Moore...MIKKI MOORE...is glaring at that coach for pulling him after an abolutely pathetic start to the season?

Shareef - he pulls after one minute - and apologizes privately and publicy because it was disrespectful. Vows to not do it again

None - Not one - of those reactions by Reggie is out of line or treating them like children. The players walked over Muss last year and small a rookie coach the same way a jr high class smells the weakness of a substitute teacher. Reggie has to know if he lets the players walk over him for those instances above he is really going to lose the team

 

[Jerichoholic]

Lack of Team Chemistry

With everything that has been going on lately, my question to you all is...what do you expect Theus to do? Look, I don't agree with taking out Martin for making a mistake but why does Martin have to show up his coach by rolling his eyes at him when he gives advice, that shows a lot of class and respect...I guarantee Popovich would bench Duncan, Manu, and Parker for doing that.

What about Salmons...Artest is the starting SF on this team and has been. Salmons has known this full well since Artest got here. This isn't unexpected, Artest is not a PF, he can play there sometimes but that is not his position. And apparently Salmons has been complaining even before that probably trying to campaign for that spot. Players must accept their roles like Manu does for San Antonio and Jason Terry does for Dallas. All-star players that are happy to come off the bench to make their teams better.

We already know about KT's attitude problem and him exchanging words with Theus to begin the season is no surprise. Now apparently Shareef is angry about his role not bothering to look at himself and realize that he is not getting the job done.

This is the problem, nobody looks in the mirror, nobody on this team accepts responsibility...it's always someone else's fault. Theus may be hard on guys but I respect that he practices what he preaches. If you produce you play, if you don't you sit...simple as that. This is a team full of players who don't mesh on the court, they don't seem to be great friends off the court, they have huge egos, they play for themselves and not the team, and most importantly there is no leader. A lot of guys want to be "The Man" but nobody wants to be the leader because being a leader means to sacrifice for the greater good of the team.

 

[fnordius]

I've always looked to history to see how different leadership strategies have worked out. I admit to being partial to Alexander the Great's, who always ate the same food as his troops, would not ride a horse unless there were enough horses for everyone, etc. Emperor of the known world, yes, but also just one of the guys.

Instead, we're getting "My name is ReggieTheus, king of kings: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" I don't like this one so well. It often seems to end with someone strung up, or with a suicide in a bunker.

Most of our rookies seem to be learning quickly. I hope that Reggie will, too.

 

[fnordius]

Fnordius, (can you explain your name? Just curious.)

Lest I hijack this thread any further, I'll just say that it goes back to the early days of the Internet, and is etymologically derived from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnord

 

[jcassio]

Reggie is playing a part. He's a phony right now. And it's not going to work for him.

I think you've raised some good points with your psycho-analysis of Reggie. However, how many times do we see someone who becomes the kind of parent that you might never have expected - based on their behavior from childhood to the birth of their first child? And I'm not even suggesting that when we become parents, we become our parents. It's not that simple. I'm suggesting that life is a maturation process, and that one of the biggest growth stages we go through is when we become parents.
NBA players are children. No, they shouldn't be humiliated in public. But a good coach has to be part parent. So I'm suggesting that maybe Reggie's not as much of a 'phony' as you think.

p.s. If ever there were a good reason for a new thread, wouldn't this discussion of truncated news reports be it? Done - VF21

 

[The Hammer]

Starting Artest over Salmons and still giving him 25+ minutes is treating him like a child? And he's supposed to put up with him storming out of the locker room?

McCants put up a carreer high against Martin, Martin still played 36 minutes, and is upset because he is "benched"?

Mikki Moore...MIKKI MOORE...is glaring at that coach for pulling him after an abolutely pathetic start to the season?

Shareef - he pulls after one minute - and apologizes privately and publicy because it was disrespectful. Vows to not do it again

None - Not one - of those reactions by Reggie is out of line or treating them like children. The players walked over Muss last year and small a rookie coach the same way a jr high class smells the weakness of a substitute teacher. Reggie has to know if he lets the players walk over him for those instances above he is really going to lose the team

Totally agree. What else is he gonna do? The guys in a tough situation. We all say we don't like the losing, but you know that's got to be getting to the players nerves. And I don't think Theus us puffing his chest. And lackadaisical? Name one successful coach who promoted a "lackadaisical" atomosphere.

You gotta think about it from a players point of view as well. Salmons became a 20 pt/game scorer. In his mind he's thinking if he could start consistently, he could get a 10-15 mil. year contract for that. These guys are playing for big money! He's trying to show something in this league, and since there's no real team cohesiveness, no apparant direction, the problem with his and perhaps other players thinking is "Why buy into the team thing?" One can see how it's tough for players and coaches to work together in this league when there is so much money at stake for the players. One of the things that helps you is if you are on a contending team, if you win it all, that can help your legacy/future after playing etc.

I think Theus is just following through on what he said he was going to do which, even all the players said they wanted. Remember stuff like, "All I'm asking for is accountability." That's what the players were saying. And Reggie KNEW there would be rubs, and "grenades" and all this. He knew this was coming. I don't think he's flustered, and I think that when the players see that he won't get flustered, they'll learn to trust him, trust his word. And yes, he did apologize for a mistake, (the Reef thing), so he's not just being proud.

I honestly think this is a phase you have to go through. I don't at all think this is necessarily a precursor to a blow up. It's easy to say that he's bringing his college coaching style to the pros. But people, remember he played for 13 years in the pros so I would venture to guess he knows the difference. Yeah it may be a different game now, and he might have to make adjustments, but I don't see him sacraficing his integrity. You can make adjustments without sacraficing your integrity and at this point I trust that Theus would know how to do that, if necessary. Or, in the case of the Reef thing, admit a mistake. Muss never really was flexible like that.

So I don't see blind rigidity/pride, but I do see sticking to his word, and that, I think is the difference between ultimately earning the trust (which again I think is a necessary stage for this team), and just pissing people off. I have a feeling Muss didn't keep is word and such. That's probably why he ultimately lost the players. Remember everyone "not knowing where they stand" with Muss? I'd be willing to bet people know where they stand with Theus, and that, I think is the difference.

 

[kennadog]

NBA players are children.

No, they are not. I hardly know any adult person that likes being treated like a child. Personally, I deeply detest it and if someone treats me that way, you can guarantee I'm not going to want to listen to what they have to say and likely won't. I wouldn't be able to listen through the seething red fog of anger.

I would like to know who here would want to work for a boss who treats them like a child? Would that sort of treatment elicit your best work? If so, why does that work for you?

 

[fnordius]

Popovich is one of the most accomplished coaches in the NBA, living or dead. His players all have rings to prove it. Reggie is the least accomplished coach in the NBA. That makes a difference. And Tomjanovich or Adelman would do the exact opposite of Popovich, and win big while doing so, so it's not as if the Popovich/Sloan approach had any sort of monopoly on success.

I do hope that some leadership will emerge on the team. But if it does, do you think that Reggie will feel that it cramps his style?

 

[Kingster]

They are some of the most talented people in the world!! Look, it's easy to lose sight of this fact because they play against even more talented players, but do you know how many people are better power forwards than them in the entire world? About 30. 30 out of 6 billion. They are world class.

And talent alone doesn't get you to the NBA. You have to have talent and work ridiculously hard to get there.

I just don't think it's a good strategy in the long run to treat players like children. There are a couple of coaches who make it work, but they are who they are. Sloan was born a hardass and he'll die a hardass.

Reggie is playing a part. He's a phony right now. And it's not going to work for him. The writing is already on the wall. He shouldn't be afraid to be likeble and even lackadaisacal. Keep people accountable but don't come in trying to smash everyone into submission.

Some of them are certainly reacting as if they are being "smashed", poor babies, though I certainly don't see "submission". The rolled eyes by Martin, the silent tantrum of Salmons, the shenanagins of Miki and Thomas. Does that seem like adult behavior to you? Not in my world. Maybe they need to call the cops on Theus for all that domestic violence he's foisting on them. You know, when you're Miki-Thomas-SAR, it's really tough to admit that you just plain suck, and to accept some responsibility for it. And if you're Salmons is tough to accept that you're not as good as Artest. And if you're Martin, to accept the fact that your defense sucks and being the bigtime scorer alone is not good enough. But washing that film of denial is part of growing up, something these players definitely need to do.

 

[y2kings]

Starting Artest over Salmons and still giving him 25+ minutes is treating him like a child? And he's supposed to put up with him storming out of the locker room?

McCants put up a carreer high against Martin, Martin still played 36 minutes, and is upset because he is "benched"?

Mikki Moore...MIKKI MOORE...is glaring at that coach for pulling him after an abolutely pathetic start to the season?

Shareef - he pulls after one minute - and apologizes privately and publicy because it was disrespectful. Vows to not do it again

None - Not one - of those reactions by Reggie is out of line or treating them like children. The players walked over Muss last year and small a rookie coach the same way a jr high class smells the weakness of a substitute teacher. Reggie has to know if he lets the players walk over him for those instances above he is really going to lose the team

Totally agree with you. In Reggie we should trust. These guys need to be treated like children because a lot of them cry/complain/b*tch about soo much they shouldn't as professional athletes. Give it a few months, once players know it's like to play for a real coach who actually uses discipline, things will be in order