Kings @ Clippers Game Thread

[jalfa]

OK guys, I'm working on a theory about how that ever since Ron Artest got traded here everything has gone wrong. I hate to pick on the guy, but I think last year was our year to kill off our wounded team to finally start over then Ron comes in and gets us a worthless 8th seed while it gives the Maloofs just enough false hope to continue the patchwork and keep this mediocre dying animal alive. Now he's killing our shot at a high pick this draft too. Why couldn't we just blow up the clown at the deadline?

Now look at the Grizzlies. They made the playoffs last year, even got the fifth seed. However, realizing that their team would not be able to win anything in the West, Jerry West made a smart decision. By trading one of the most integral parts of the team and thus acquiring a young guy with tons of potential, he very effectively started their rebuilding process. Pau Gasol's injury was of course not part of his plans, but it was a very convenient incentive for simply throwing away the season. Looking at the Grizzlies now, they have a very, very bright future ahead of them, what with Rudy Gay and Hakim Warrick developing, Pau being Pau and most likely having the first pick in this year's draft waiting for them.

And this (or something very similar) is exactly what we should've done.

 

[John Galt]

...the issue is not that the guys played hard, it's that so many of the top-of-the-rotation guys played so many minutes in a game where the absolute last thing the Kings should want to do is win; we've been ostensibly eliminated from the playoffs for over a month and "officially" eliminated for over a week... we shouldn't be trying to win ANY games any more this season.

I fully expect Kevin Martin and Ron Artest and John Salmons and Mike Bibby and Brad Miller and Shareef Abdur-Rahim to play their best, when they're in the game. I also fully expect that, if Musselman wasn't being a prick and trying to "save" a job which he's already lost, that he would play everybody in the top 6 of the rotation twenty-five minutes or fewer the rest of the way out, AT LEAST from the point that we were mathematically eliminated, if not sooner.

ok I agree with all this. I don't like taking it out on the ballplayers though - that's where I'm coming from.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

My question is...how does a team actually TANK?

You don't "tank." You let the kids sink or swim. I said it before, and I'll continue to repeat it: NOBODY in the top-six of the Kings rotation should have played more than twenty-five minutes. There sure as hell shouldn't have been anybody in the top six playing thirty minutes (Salmons) or forty minutes (Artest).

 

[1kingzfan]

Well I guess that depends on whether or not you think that players like Roy Hibbert or Al Horford will "matter" at the NBA level... and this win effectively took us out of the running for either one of those guys.

Who knows?

Horford is likely to to go right after Oden and Durant by what I've read. We were never in the running for #3.

One draft site has Hibbert going at #8 where we are still in the running.

Actually, after seeing Hibbert in the NCAA tourney, I think he has some question marks. Oden is far superior IMHO. Hibbert is big and tough, though.

I don't see how this win today "took us out of the running for either one of these guys"...there was always tomorrow and Wednesday to lose or win and change things up again, at least with a shot at Hibbert.

 

[BRad1055]

Seriously if we get the 7th pick or the 8th,9th,10th pick whatever that player will not help us much and truthfully even if we did get lucky and get a top 2 pick and get Oden or Durant we would not be a "elite team" anyway next year so why are we bickering over a few spots in the standings? Seriously this team will get better through trades and free agency and letting Petrie do his magic. Knowing the Kings and there history of having the number 1 pick (Pervis Ellison in 1989) yes that was like the weakest draft ever, but still we would get that first pick and probably draft like Noah from Florida who IMo will be the next Pervis Ellison.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Who knows?

Horford is likely to to go right after Oden and Durant by what I've read. We were never in the running for #3.

One draft site has Hibbert going at #8 where we are still in the running.

Actually, after seeing Hibbert in the NCAA tourney, I think he has some question marks. Oden is far superior IMHO. Hibbert is big and tough, though.

I don't see how this win today "took us out of the running for either one of these guys"...there was always tomorrow and Wednesday to lose or win and change things up again, at least with a shot at Hibbert.

As he is to a lot of prospects.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't see how this win today "took us out of the running for either one of these guys"...there was always tomorrow and Wednesday to lose or win and change things up again, at least with a shot at Hibbert.

When we finish with forty-nine losses instead of fifty, and discover that one loss was the difference between #6 and #11, then you'll have your answer.

 

[6th]

You don't "tank." You let the kids sink or swim. I said it before, and I'll continue to repeat it: NOBODY in the top-six of the Kings rotation should have played more than twenty-five minutes. There sure as hell shouldn't have been anybody in the top six playing thirty minutes (Salmons) or forty minutes (Artest).

And that is entirely on Musselman. Artest even argued with Muss on the sidelines, insisting he go back in. If our "coach" (and I use that term loosely) had any control over this team, he would have told Artest to sit down and shut up. He then would have played someone else. As Mr. Slim said, "you let the kids sink or swim."

 

[1kingzfan]

You don't "tank." You let the kids sink or swim. I said it before, and I'll continue to repeat it: NOBODY in the top-six of the Kings rotation should have played more than twenty-five minutes.

So you are saying we should have played 4-on-5 today (with only 10 players available) and taking out Ron and John and Kevin and Brad and Mike and SAR, well you know....

 

[1kingzfan]

When we finish with forty-nine losses instead of fifty, and discover that one loss was the difference between #6 and #11, then you'll have your answer.

It doesn't matter. What would you have had any player or coach do specifically today to change that?

 

[ezekielbear]

I fully expect Kevin Martin and Ron Artest and John Salmons and Mike Bibby and Brad Miller and Shareef Abdur-Rahim to play their best, when they're in the game. I also fully expect that, if Musselman wasn't being a prick and trying to "save" a job which he's already lost, that he would play everybody in the top 6 of the rotation twenty-five minutes or fewer the rest of the way out, AT LEAST from the point that we were mathematically eliminated, if not sooner.

**** the "finale," Douby, Price, Garcia, Williams and Potapenko should have, barring injury or disqualification, played the ENTIRE fourth quarter. and if THAT five beats the Clippers, then you just shrug your shoulders.

He pretty much did do that though...sans Artest.

Martin, Miller, Bibby, Reef, etc were all in the mid to low 20's.

Without Corliss, Kenny, or Price...he was pretty limited. Only guy that could have played that didn't was Vitaly.

It's somewhat of just a "what can you do" type situation.

Somebody has to get some time when you're limited like that.

 

[6th]

He pretty much did do that though...sans Artest.

Martin, Miller, Bibby, Reef, etc were all in the mid to low 20's.

Without Corliss, Kenny, or Price...he was pretty limited. Only guy that could have played that didn't was Vitaly.

It's somewhat of just a "what can you do" type situation.

You play Vitaly.

 

[kennadog]

He pretty much did do that though...sans Artest.

Martin, Miller, Bibby, Reef, etc were all in the mid to low 20's.

Without Corliss, Kenny, or Price...he was pretty limited. Only guy that could have played that didn't was Vitaly.

It's somewhat of just a "what can you do" type situation.

Somebody has to get some time when you're limited like that.

Bingo! Why not let Vitaly get out there and play some, since it doesn't matter if we lose any more?

 

[ezekielbear]

You play Vitaly.

Well, Muss is TRYING to save his job...lol

 

[rhythmless]

the question about whether this was his job next year was over a long time ago. i think hes doing this out of spite, so the kings dont get as good a draft pick as they could.

kind of schemey, isnt it?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Knowing the Kings and there history of having the number 1 pick (Pervis Ellison in 1989) yes that was like the weakest draft ever, but still we would get that first pick and probably draft like Noah from Florida who IMo will be the next Pervis Ellison.

Now that's just being anti-draft for the sake of being anti-draft. Besides which, Noah can't be the next Pervis Ellison, because there's absolutely no chance that anybody's going to take him with the #1 pick, even if Oden doesn't declare.

At the worst, he'll be the next Lorenzen Wright. And hell, even Wright had four pretty good years...

 

[ezekielbear]

I'd say he's trying to win the final 3 games if possible to end on a positive note and attempt to woo the Kings front office over to keep his job, more then trying to win out of spite.

 

[1kingzfan]

Well, Muss is TRYING to save his job...lol

Disagree.

It was a 4/5 tank job attempt by playing Artest instead of Vitaly with the 4 other scrubbies.

Muss was very clever...nobody even noticed that he did not bring back his starters as the lead dwindled and dwindled and dwindled...

 

[Jerryaki]

Seriously this team will get better through trades and free agency and letting Petrie do his magic.

have you been watching the same team the past few offseasons? MERLIN couldn't fix this team. a high draft pick was the first step in the recovery process, and we managed to still f*** that up royally these past few weeks.

for all of the arguments that I've seen from people who say "what does a few spots matter in the draft," it's STILL A DAMN BARGAINING CHIP. a #6 pick can be traded far more readily than a #10 pick, to a team that may actually contend next season.

you think roy hibbert is a question mark? fine, trade him to a team that doesn't and lift one of their "known" players.

"how do you expect them to tank," "the draft is not a guarantee," "we can fix ourselves through trade."

it's all the same passive, apathetic miasma of this franchise. sorry. </rant>

 

[ezekielbear]

Disagree.

It was a 4/5 tank job attempt by playing Artest instead of Vitaly with the 4 other scrubbies.

Muss was very clever...nobody even noticed that he did not bring back his starters as the lead dwindled and dwindled and dwindled...

Kaman only played 20 min.

Seems like Muss was trying to match up more with Artest in the game over Vitaly.

Tallest guy on the court was Tim Thomas.

Seems more of an attempt to match up with their small lineup

 

[Vlade4GM]

have you been watching the same team the past few offseasons? MERLIN couldn't fix this team. a high draft pick was the first step in the recovery process, and we managed to still f*** that up royally these past few weeks.

for all of the arguments that I've seen from people who say "what does a few spots matter in the draft," it's STILL A DAMN BARGAINING CHIP. a #6 pick can be traded far more readily than a #10 pick, to a team who may actually contend next season.

you think roy hibbert is a question mark? fine, trade him to a team who doesn't and lift one of their "known" players.

"how do you expect them to tank," "the draft is not a guarantee," "we can fix ourselves through trade."

it's all the same passive, apathetic miasma of this franchise. sorry. </rant>

That was awesome. Rock on bro!!

 

[1kingzfan]

Kaman only played 20 min.

Seems like Muss was trying to match up more with Artest in the game over Vitaly.

Tallest guy on the court was Tim Thomas.

Seems more of an attempt to match up with their small lineup

I still vote for the "covert" tank job by Muss.

When I realized inside of 2 minutes that he wasn't going to substitute, I really thought we would lose the game.

The starting guys sitting on the bench at the end were 19-35 in the game from the field.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It doesn't matter. What would you have had any player or coach do specifically today to change that?

:: sighs ::

**** the "finale," Douby, Price, Garcia, Williams and Potapenko should have, barring injury or disqualification, played the ENTIRE fourth quarter. and if THAT five beats the Clippers, then you just shrug your shoulders.

He pretty much did do that though...sans Artest.

Martin, Miller, Bibby, Reef, etc were all in the mid to low 20's.

Without Corliss, Kenny, or Price...he was pretty limited. Only guy that could have played that didn't was Vitaly.

It's somewhat of just a "what can you do" type situation.

You play Vitaly.

I'm not sure whether you're not listening, or you're not understanding. At any rate, do you have a cite that Price was not available? And, let's suppose he wasn't, Potapenko was. Not only that, but Abdur-Rahim only played nineteen minutes: do you expect me to believe that fifteen of Artest's forty and five of Salmons' thirty couldn't have been split between Abdur-Rahim and Potapenko?

Like I said before, you play the kids down the stretch, not part of the stretch, but the whole stretch. And if you win with the kids on the floor for the WHOLE stretch, then you just shrug your shoulders. But, with respect to anybody who claims that Artest didn't play "much" down the stretch, I shall continue to disagree. Artest, as I've mentioned about a dozen times already, played forty minutes: it is mathematically impossible that he didn't play at least four minutes of the fourth quarter. I contend that he shouldn't have played ANY of the fourth quarter, and neither should have any other starter.

 

[Kingster]

I was hoping we would lose and am disappointed that we won because of the draft implications.

But what I don't get about some of the furious "tankers" is this:

What do you want somebody to do differently?

I guess you haven't been reading this board. All the Kings org had to do was play Douby, Garcia, Price, and Williams 35+ minutes a game since about 8-9 games ago and the rest would have taken care of itself. Easy, simple. Not complicated. Perfectly clear and guaranteed to get those guys big minutes under game conditions, including down the stretch. It would also have guaranteed that the Kings lose big, which in the NBA is second best to winning big. The Kings can't even lose right. Thank you, Kings. I have endured a horrendous season of mediocrity, of ineptitude, of ridiculously terrible chemistry, only to be rewarded by a lousy draft pick.

 

[ezekielbear]

I'm not sure whether you're not listening, or you're not understanding. At any rate, do you have a cite that Price was not available? And, let's suppose he wasn't, Potapenko was. Not only that, but Abdur-Rahim only played nineteen minutes: do you expect me to believe that fifteen of Artest's forty and five of Salmons' thirty couldn't have been split between Abdur-Rahim and Potapenko?

Like I said before, you play the kids down the stretch, not part of the stretch, but the whole stretch. And if you win with the kids on the floor for the WHOLE stretch, then you just shrug your shoulders. But, with respect to anybody who claims that Artest didn't play "much" down the stretch, I shall continue to disagree. Artest, as I've mentioned about a dozen times already, played forty minutes: it is mathematically impossible that he didn't play at least four minutes of the fourth quarter. I contend that he shouldn't have played ANY of the fourth quarter, and neither should have any other starter.

I'm listening just fine, and I'm understanding even better, thank you. A cite to Ronnie? No. Was I informed that he wasn't going to play most likely? Yes.

It's pointless. You're hell bent on Texas about the situation and that's just your view, which you're more then entitled to.

 

[piksi]

Sixers won in Detroit

 

[1kingzfan]

Sixers won in Detroit

I guess they don't know how to tank either...

 

[BMiller52]

Knicks are going to lose to Toronto. We drop to 10th I think. Man this just SUCKS. This day could not get any worse for us.

 

[chelle]

I did not et to hear the first half. I did read all of this tread, but i failed to read exactly why Price, Vitaly, Corliss, and Kenny did not play. Are they injured, or was it a Muss decision? And why in the name of all that is good, did Ron play 40 minutes? Was that his decision or Muss's. I CANNOT WAIT for these final 2 games to be over.

 

[John Galt]

I guess you haven't been reading this board. All the Kings org had to do was play Douby, Garcia, Price, and Williams 35+ minutes a game since about 8-9 games ago and the rest would have taken care of itself. Easy, simple. Not complicated. .

but I HAVE been reading the board and there have been many comments disparaging the players for failing to lose, or wose, or lin, or whatever...

If it boiled down to only frustration with the front office for not employing the overall "tank strategy" you describe, then there wouldn't be the repeated play by play handwringing and name calling that there has been.

Curse Maloofs, Petrie and Muss all you want. Just don't ask athletes to play poorly or get mad at them for failing to perform poorly.