This team 'Confuses' me everytime

#31
however, those kings just didnt have the talent. back then, they had a perrenial all star, and middling starters at best. edney, gamble, ollie, op, tisdale (hey, didnt he get into domestic charges too?), hurley (man, what could have been if not for the accident), ltrain. the talent level now is so much better.
It was Duane Causewell who hit his wife while he was living in the Los Lagos. I think Officer Polynice did as well.

Well in their current condition, They seem pretty similiar to me. I wasn't a "knowledgeable fan" back then but I recall Tizzy being a pretty good scorer and a awful defender(Brad anybody?;-) ).

Mike, Artest, and Brad all are on the downside of their careers and have lost atleast a step.
 
#32
sorry to continue to be off topic...

i was pretty young, pre-teen, but i watched every game i could, and followed what i could with no cable, and no one besides richmond was ever really on an all star level bubble. olden polynice was nothing special, whereas brad could claim top 5 center before this year. martin is almost matching richmond's scoring, and doing it at a better percentage. bibby with one hand could produce more than waht hurley gave us. and ron artest is the premier perimeter defender in the league when he wants to be.

michael smith off the bench was nice, but that free throw shooting... i remember him banking them in because he was so bad (hey, maybe something for justin to think about huh?)

this transitional version of the kings, even though older (i think), is far and away better than anything we had during the richmond years
 
#33
And you're assuming that that was the only reason, or even the main reason, which presumes facts not entered into evidence. Donnie Walsh said when Artest asked for a trade that they were going to try to accommodate him; he did NOT say that he was going to sit him because he asked to be traded.

Consequences to whom? An even more frustrated fan base? Who cares? You watch the games, too, I presume: people are staying away in droves; the "sellout streak" is a fraud. Nothing is more frustrating and damaging to a fan base than a team that gets stuck in mediocrity and stays there. At least a team that's bad has hope of striking gold in the draft; teams that are terminally mediocre don't even have that. Bad rep among players? Oh noes! Now we won't get those premier free agents that have been queuing up to play for us!

Hell no it does not; guaranteed money absolutely does not equate to guaranteed playing time. The only organization with the authority to do anything about a team that benches it's talent is the player's union and, as long as the owner's still pay the player, the union can't do jack. The Maloofs don't have to justify to Stern whether they play a guy and why. The owner can tell the player, "You're going to have your minutes cut to fifteen a game so we can see what Ronnie Price has to offer. And, if you don't like it, you can go home and sit out your contract." And, as long as the player still gets paid, he pretty much has to sit on it and rotate.
The Artest issue was caused by statements he made to the press.

I think anyone would agree that the Kings couldn't forfeit the rest of the season even if that was best for the franchise in the future. Just depends on how close you want to get to that. Fake injuries to star players, sitting not just reducing minutes your best players. That is too far. If they had traded vets for youth and potential at the deadline - then the players lose more while trying their hardest. That is the right way to do it. It shows respect to the fan base who have committed to paying for tickets and watching games as well as the NBA. You don't think that matters? ok.

Never said that guaranteed money means guaranteed playing time - I said that it changes the balance of power. Players start being blatantly disrespectful to the coach and owners in the press because they are not being respected, telling everyone who will listen that the organization throwing the season and making them sit with fake injuries. Even if it is better for the franchise 3 years down the line, that is a PR disaster. Especially when the Maloofs are trying to convince the city to help them out with an arena.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#34
Every year teams angling for rebuilds cut their vets' minutes + take a look at the kids (while "incidentally" piling ont he losses). And the vets always grumble, but there is nothing they can do about it. The tougher sell is with the coach. But I can think of two separate tacks to overcome that: Tack #1 -- do this Muss and we guarantee that you'll be around next year; Tack #2 -- don't do this Muss and we guarantee that you won't.

The bigger issue isn't that other teams don't do it, or that we CAN'T do it, but that this team was a mistake, the product of a deluded front office who badly misjudged multiple basketball matters. They truly thought this team was going to contend or some such B.S. And so all of the natural and easy things that teams who know who and what they are do -- including chopping the minutes of the vets and looking toward the future -- are still being sporadically fought by our schizophrenic messed up franchise. If they knew and understood the team would lose, it would be oje thing, and taking steps might be possible. But still in alternate states of denial and embarrassment, they can't bring themselves to do the right thing. Its too big a swing from their delusions of grandeur down to the reality of waving the white flag.
Another term for your description above is cognitive dissonance. Ever since Petrie's "core" idea of Peja, Miller and Bibby we've been dealing with the after-shocks of cognitive dissonance. The front office's view of their team and it's place in the NBA world was so different from reality that they couldn't bear to part with it, even though many could see that it was a mirage. To acknowledge how awefully wrong they were would be too painful, to much of a shock, at least in a short time frame. They've needed to lengthen the cognitive readjustment period to maintain whatever pride or self esteem they had left. As of the last trade deadline, they still haven't fully adjusted. And because they haven't adjusted, they are passive, waiting for reality to fully set in.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#35
Then you sit them for conduct detrimental. Problem solved. "We're moving the team in a different direction, and Mike Bibby isn't part of that movement" is all they have to say.
 
#36
Then you sit them for conduct detrimental. Problem solved. "We're moving the team in a different direction, and Mike Bibby isn't part of that movement" is all they have to say.
wouldn't want you to be my boss :p

Seriously though, they have every right to do what you are saying, but it'll be intersting to see how the Maloofs deal with the team this summer. We've seen them when the team is moving forward and winning - now we will see what their style is after facing their first real failure of a season.
 
#37
Do you think the Kings players think "hey, if we keep losing, we can get a good draft pick"? The answer to that question is NO. They don't think like that because some of the players may not be here next year.


They can't think whats in the future rather then whats happening right now. the only way we get better is getting a high pick not by showing desire just to miss out in the playoffs.
 
#38
2 things

1. We shouldnt be hoping the team is going to lose on purpose for a high draft pick, its not often that a new player defines the team the first year, Isay focus on the present before the future.

2. The facts are that the 14th draft pick this year is supposed to be better than the 4th last year, so I think were good, Good good picks this year, one of the best they say.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#39
2 things

1. We shouldnt be hoping the team is going to lose on purpose for a high draft pick, its not often that a new player defines the team the first year, Isay focus on the present before the future.
Um...I could mention that this is incredibly shortsighted, but as you basically seem to be freely admitting to as much, even advocating it, I don't suppose that's much of an insult.
2. The facts are that the 14th draft pick this year is supposed to be better than the 4th last year, so I think were good, Good good picks this year, one of the best they say.
Oh, ok, let's say the 14th pick actually was better than the 4th last year. Know what? The 4th pick might be better than the 1st pick last year. And the 1st pick...might just be a HOFer. Its ALWAYS better to be picking higher.

Losing in the NBA is just like winning. You want to "win" the race to the bottom just as much as winning the race to the top. No half measures, no medicority. That's where you choke and die. Winning the lottery would be a huge step to one day maybe winning the title. Both are "wins". The true losers in the NBA are the teams that win neither race, the ones who lose out on being good, AND lose out on being bad. The teams in the #11 to #20 range. Hopeless, hapless, and boring unless you are a very young team just passing through on t he way to bigger and better things.
 
#40
2 things

1. We shouldnt be hoping the team is going to lose on purpose for a high draft pick, its not often that a new player defines the team the first year, Isay focus on the present before the future.

2. The facts are that the 14th draft pick this year is supposed to be better than the 4th last year, so I think were good, Good good picks this year, one of the best they say.
I don't expect the players to lose on purpose. Besides, we are obviously bad enough to lose without trying to.

First year impact isn't what you're going for, necessarily. Would you have been unhappy with say Dwight Howard, Dwayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett if it took them a couple of years to develop into a defining player?:confused:
 
#41
no no, im saying that its not very often for a player like that to come in, not every player is a Dwayne wade or koby bryant. and yes, I am not an expert on the draft, we can do without the attempted insults thank you, that was just my personal opinion and if its short sighted I apoligize. I just heard that the draft was supposed to be very good this year.
 
#42
sorry to continue to be off topic...

i was pretty young, pre-teen, but i watched every game i could, and followed what i could with no cable, and no one besides richmond was ever really on an all star level bubble. olden polynice was nothing special, whereas brad could claim top 5 center before this year. martin is almost matching richmond's scoring, and doing it at a better percentage. bibby with one hand could produce more than waht hurley gave us. and ron artest is the premier perimeter defender in the league when he wants to be.

michael smith off the bench was nice, but that free throw shooting... i remember him banking them in because he was so bad (hey, maybe something for justin to think about huh?)

this transitional version of the kings, even though older (i think), is far and away better than anything we had during the richmond years
hmm...

My part of Sac didn't get cable untill 96 so I didn't get cable till then. Hurley wasn't very good shooter. He still had that line drive shot which never went in. I was never confident that he was going to be too sprecial before the accident.

THe Animal was so bad at Free Throw shooting us fans gave him standing ovations everytime he made a one..... For those who weren't fans back then, That wasnt an exaggeration.
 
#43
Ok, so the current Kings transition team is better than the 90's transition team. Not to step on anyone's toes but: so what? There's no pattern of logical progression here. The Petrie of back then is different from the current Petrie. Players are different, circumstances are different. We'll see what happens.
 
#44
Um...I could mention that this is incredibly shortsighted, but as you basically seem to be freely admitting to as much, even advocating it, I don't suppose that's much of an insult.


Oh, ok, let's say the 14th pick actually was better than the 4th last year. Know what? The 4th pick might be better than the 1st pick last year. And the 1st pick...might just be a HOFer. Its ALWAYS better to be picking higher.

Losing in the NBA is just like winning. You want to "win" the race to the bottom just as much as winning the race to the top. No half measures, no medicority. That's where you choke and die. Winning the lottery would be a huge step to one day maybe winning the title. Both are "wins". The true losers in the NBA are the teams that win neither race, the ones who lose out on being good, AND lose out on being bad. The teams in the #11 to #20 range. Hopeless, hapless, and boring unless you are a very young team just passing through on t he way to bigger and better things.
Why can't you be the kings GM?