This team 'Confuses' me everytime

[TheJoker]

There performance all season long thus far has been "Red light" and "Green light" just when things get better they turn into "Red Light" which defines a team who stops working hard.

we had a chance to get a high pick now we're trying to fight for a playoff why? i don't even know. if we miss out on the playoffs and just get a 13-14th pick am really gonna get pissed off. this Organization needs to realize what there direction is and quite obviously they have no beeping clue what the direction is.
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[slugking50]

There performance all season long thus far has been "Red light" and "Green light" just when things get better they turn into "Red Light" which defines a team who stops working hard.

we had a chance to get a high pick now we're trying to fight for a playoff why? i don't even know. if we miss out on the playoffs and just get a 13-14th pick am really gonna get pissed off. this Organization needs to realize what there direction is and quite obviously they have no beeping clue what the direction is.
​

Thats what I remember the 90's Kings were like. We always had that late run to JUST miss the playoffs. Too good to be hideous and not good enough to make the playoffs.... Like now.

 

[Rockmeister]

we had a chance to get a high pick now we're trying to fight for a playoff why? i don't even know. if we miss out on the playoffs and just get a 13-14th pick am really gonna get pissed off. this Organization needs to realize what there direction is and quite obviously they have no beeping clue what the direction is.​

Do you think the Kings players think "hey, if we keep losing, we can get a good draft pick"? The answer to that question is NO. They don't think like that because some of the players may not be here next year.
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[tyrant]

i know exactly how you feel. this team won 4 straight games. then lose 4 straight. i do feel some relief. knowing we wont have the same front line next season . dammit

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It's not up to the players.

 

[Bricklayer]

Do you think the Kings players think "hey, if we keep losing, we can get a good draft pick"? The answer to that question is NO. They don't think like that because some of the players may not be here next year.
[/left]

Some? If there are more than 4 or 5 returnees Petrie will need to be strung up out front of Arco and flogged. This should be a complete blow it up and rebuild year. Anything else is a sign of true idiocy. Petrie had the sack to dot hat once upon a time a long long time ago, but has looked so very very old ladyesque in his nibbling and wandering of late. He needs to relocate his inner dice roller, and stat.

Whic of course creates a problem, because the players' interest in their own future careers no longer dovetails nicely with the franchise's interest in its own future. What's good for them is not good for us, and since many/most will likely not be here, they likely do not care (nor should they).

 

[sidney]

It's not up to the players.

yes, it's always up to the players playing.

it's up to the management to decide who's on the team. Too late for them to make any decisions now.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

yes, it's always up to the players playing.

No, it's never up to the players; it's up to the guy that controls the players' playing time... ie, the coach.

 

[LPKingsFan]

The easier thing, of course, would be to trade the veterans for youth and let the youngin's play hard and develop, while not winning as much initially. Of course, that would have made too much sense...

 

[sidney]

No, it's never up to the players; it's up to the guy that controls the players' playing time... ie, the coach.

in our case, the coach is trying to save his job/career, so he is in the same position as the players - doing what is best for themselves regardless of what's best for the future of the franchise.

 

[rhythmless]

Thats what I remember the 90's Kings were like. We always had that late run to JUST miss the playoffs. Too good to be hideous and not good enough to make the playoffs.... Like now.

however, those kings just didnt have the talent. back then, they had a perrenial all star, and middling starters at best. edney, gamble, ollie, op, tisdale (hey, didnt he get into domestic charges too?), hurley (man, what could have been if not for the accident), ltrain. the talent level now is so much better.

i

 

[VF21]

however, those kings just didnt have the talent. back then, they had a perrenial all star, and middling starters at best. edney, gamble, ollie, op, tisdale (hey, didnt he get into domestic charges too?), hurley (man, what could have been if not for the accident), ltrain. the talent level now is so much better.

i

I agree with this, too. The teams in the 90s were just mediocre teams going nowhere fast.

Our team right now is in transition. I can accept that. It's painful but necessary. I'm not gonna bag on Petrie over trying to keep us afloat as he had to totally rebuild a team.

I love this team - warts, wrinkles, problems and all. They are who they are and I'm going to keep rooting for them in the hopes that next year's version will be better. I'm not saying that attitude is for everyone but it works for me. They're my team. I'm their fan. Thus has it been from the beginning and thus it ever shall be...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

in our case, the coach is trying to save his job/career, so he is in the same position as the players - doing what is best for themselves regardless of what's best for the future of the franchise.

And, just like the coach tells the players what to do, the GM tells the coach what to do; the inmates don't run the asylum.

 

[vfettke]

wait... i thought it would be a good thing to fight for a playoff spot to play against the Mavs or Suns.

 

[Troy]

wait... i thought it would be a good thing to fight for a playoff spot to play against the Mavs or Suns.

With the Spurs we actually have a chance, Artest or not it seems. Matchups can be very wacky. Against the Mavs or Suns, we'd have a short series and probably be home for the rest of the summer after the 4th game.

 

[sidney]

And, just like the coach tells the players what to do, the GM tells the coach what to do; the inmates don't run the asylum.

I suppose that is where we disagree.

GP to Muss - "Eric, I know this season is largely considered a failure and that you may not get another chance as a NBA head coach, but can you lose some games on purpose so that our franchise is better off after we fire you?"

Muss to Bibby/Artest - "I just received word that we are to lose games to improve the team after you are traded, so I am going to play you 25 minutes a game to keep up appearances unless you play very poorly"

Of course those would not be the words used, but that is likely how it would be received and why it would not work. This is NOT the military where everybody blindly follows orders and disregards self interest. NBA is more like a partnership where players, GM, coach, and owners each have their own sources of power and control.

I agree it would have been better to tank, but that was up to GP and the Maloofs at the deadline. The window reopens in the summer. Nothing much can be done now...although they are doing a pretty good job of losing anyway.

 

[Bricklayer]

Every year teams angling for rebuilds cut their vets' minutes + take a look at the kids (while "incidentally" piling ont he losses). And the vets always grumble, but there is nothing they can do about it. The tougher sell is with the coach. But I can think of two separate tacks to overcome that: Tack #1 -- do this Muss and we guarantee that you'll be around next year; Tack #2 -- don't do this Muss and we guarantee that you won't.

The bigger issue isn't that other teams don't do it, or that we CAN'T do it, but that this team was a mistake, the product of a deluded front office who badly misjudged multiple basketball matters. They truly thought this team was going to contend or some such B.S. And so all of the natural and easy things that teams who know who and what they are do -- including chopping the minutes of the vets and looking toward the future -- are still being sporadically fought by our schizophrenic messed up franchise. If they knew and understood the team would lose, it would be oje thing, and taking steps might be possible. But still in alternate states of denial and embarrassment, they can't bring themselves to do the right thing. Its too big a swing from their delusions of grandeur down to the reality of waving the white flag.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Do you think the Kings players think "hey, if we keep losing, we can get a good draft pick"? The answer to that question is NO. They don't think like that because some of the players may not be here next year.
[/left]

Hence why any smart management would have traded away some of the "tallent" for expiring contracts. Or if managment wanted a winning team they should have gone after MORE tallent. There ain't nothing in the middle of the road except a yellow line and dead armadillos.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I suppose that is where we disagree.

GP to Muss - "Eric, I know this season is largely considered a failure and that you may not get another chance as a NBA head coach, but can you lose some games on purpose so that our franchise is better off after we fire you?"

Muss to Bibby/Artest - "I just received word that we are to lose games to improve the team after you are traded, so I am going to play you 25 minutes a game to keep up appearances unless you play very poorly"

Of course those would not be the words used, but that is likely how it would be received and why it would not work. This is NOT the military where everybody blindly follows orders and disregards self interest. NBA is more like a partnership where players, GM, coach, and owners each have their own sources of power and control.

I wasn't aware that civilians were allowed to tell their bosses what directions they will and will not follow without consequences.

The very idea that you seem to think that the players have enough juice to tell ownership that they're not going to allow themselves to be taken out of a game is absurd. The owners have ALL the control. Superstars get benched all the time, and we don't even have one of those. If the players won't do what the coach tells him to do, then the answer is simple: you fabricate an injury and put him on the IR, and then he's not even allowed to suit up, and is not given the option to defy the coach. Or you just plain suspend him for conduct detrimental. Hell, it wasn't even a year ago that Rick Carlisle told Artest that he wasn't going to play, and then didn't play him for, like, twenty games, until he was traded. He wasn't suspended by the league, he just wasn't allowed to play. And Philadelphia did the same thing with Iverson. If the player won't do what you tell him to do, then you bench him, and if he won't come out when you tell him to come out, then you take him off the active roster. Do you expect me to believe that either Artest or Bibby have more stature or influence than Allen F. Iverson did with the 76ers? If the coach doesn't do what the GM tells him to do, he should be fired immediately.

If the men who sign the checks wanted it done, it would get done. Period. The problem is that they don't want to do it, and the team has suffered as a result.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Some? If there are more than 4 or 5 returnees Petrie will need to be strung up out front of Arco and flogged. This should be a complete blow it up and rebuild year. Anything else is a sign of true idiocy. Petrie had the sack to dot hat once upon a time a long long time ago, but has looked so very very old ladyesque in his nibbling and wandering of late. He needs to relocate his inner dice roller, and stat.

Whic of course creates a problem, because the players' interest in their own future careers no longer dovetails nicely with the franchise's interest in its own future. What's good for them is not good for us, and since many/most will likely not be here, they likely do not care (nor should they).

the word "some" means at least one and maybe all so he used the word properly.

 

[gunks]

Every year teams angling for rebuilds cut their vets' minutes + take a look at the kids (while "incidentally" piling ont he losses). And the vets always grumble, but there is nothing they can do about it. The tougher sell is with the coach. But I can think of two separate tacks to overcome that: Tack #1 -- do this Muss and we guarantee that you'll be around next year; Tack #2 -- don't do this Muss and we guarantee that you won't.

The bigger issue isn't that other teams don't do it, or that we CAN'T do it, but that this team was a mistake, the product of a deluded front office who badly misjudged multiple basketball matters. They truly thought this team was going to contend or some such B.S. And so all of the natural and easy things that teams who know who and what they are do -- including chopping the minutes of the vets and looking toward the future -- are still being sporadically fought by our schizophrenic messed up franchise. If they knew and understood the team would lose, it would be oje thing, and taking steps might be possible. But still in alternate states of denial and embarrassment, they can't bring themselves to do the right thing. Its too big a swing from their delusions of grandeur down to the reality of waving the white flag.

We're too close to that 8th spot still....For some reason getting destroyed by the Mavs in the first round is still a goal for this season.

 

[Rockmeister]

For some reason getting destroyed by the Mavs in the first round is still a goal for this season.

Speak for yourself.

 

[gunks]

Actually I was speaking for Petrie and the Maloofs.

I on the otherhand started a rebuild thread months before it was even fashionable to do so!

 

[fnordius]

Tack #1 -- do this Muss and we guarantee that you'll be around next year; Tack #2 -- don't do this Muss and we guarantee that you won't.

I think there's a Tack #3 possible...

GP: "Muss, I've been talking to the Maloofs, and they wanted you to know that they're not worrying about making the playoffs anymore. They're already in the black for the season, so the extra money is no big deal. They're looking towards next season now, and said that how many of the remaining games you win or lose won't be held against you. For the next month, their only metric is going to be how well you develop the team for next year. So, from here on out, the one and only priority is learning how to play better in the future."

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

No, it's never up to the players; it's up to the guy that controls the players' playing time... ie, the coach.

too bad we dont have a coach that commands those basic respects from HIS players.

 

[sidney]

I wasn't aware that civilians were allowed to tell their bosses what directions they will and will not follow without consequences.

The very idea that you seem to think that the players have enough juice to tell ownership that they're not going to allow themselves to be taken out of a game is absurd. The owners have ALL the control. Superstars get benched all the time, and we don't even have one of those. If the players won't do what the coach tells him to do, then the answer is simple: you fabricate an injury and put him on the IR, and then he's not even allowed to suit up, and is not given the option to defy the coach. Or you just plain suspend him for conduct detrimental. Hell, it wasn't even a year ago that Rick Carlisle told Artest that he wasn't going to play, and then didn't play him for, like, twenty games, until he was traded. He wasn't suspended by the league, he just wasn't allowed to play. And Philadelphia did the same thing with Iverson. If the player won't do what you tell him to do, then you bench him, and if he won't come out when you tell him to come out, then you take him off the active roster. Do you expect me to believe that either Artest or Bibby have more stature or influence than Allen F. Iverson did with the 76ers? If the coach doesn't do what the GM tells him to do, he should be fired immediately.

If the men who sign the checks wanted it done, it would get done. Period. The problem is that they don't want to do it, and the team has suffered as a result.

The Iverson and Artest situations happened because they asked off the team. Totally different.

You can't sit Bibby and Artest for the rest of the season without some pretty big consequences. You can trim their minutes a little and hope it has an effect (is that what you are saying?), but sit them to lose and you'll get an even more frustrated fan base. And fake an injury for those guys? No way do they stay quiet about it. I think the league could get involved even because it throws off the competitive balance of the league. Gives the team a bad rep amoung players. I could go on. You can do it...I just think it's a really bad idea.

You are right that civilians can't tell there bosses what they will and will not do, with one exception - when the employee has a guaranteed employment contract. I've seen it in the business world a fair amount. If you're payday is secure, the balance of power changes...a lot.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

The Iverson and Artest situations happened because they asked off the team. Totally different.

And you're assuming that that was the only reason, or even the main reason, which presumes facts not entered into evidence. Donnie Walsh said when Artest asked for a trade that they were going to try to accommodate him; he did NOT say that he was going to sit him because he asked to be traded.

You can't sit Bibby and Artest for the rest of the season without some pretty big consequences. You can trim their minutes a little and hope it has an effect (is that what you are saying?), but sit them to lose and you'll get an even more frustrated fan base. And fake an injury for those guys? No way do they stay quiet about it. I think the league could get involved even because it throws off the competitive balance of the league. Gives the team a bad rep amoung players. I could go on. You can do it...I just think it's a really bad idea.

Consequences to whom? An even more frustrated fan base? Who cares? You watch the games, too, I presume: people are staying away in droves; the "sellout streak" is a fraud. Nothing is more frustrating and damaging to a fan base than a team that gets stuck in mediocrity and stays there. At least a team that's bad has hope of striking gold in the draft; teams that are terminally mediocre don't even have that. Bad rep among players? Oh noes! Now we won't get those premier free agents that have been queuing up to play for us!

You are right that civilians can't tell there bosses what they will and will not do, with one exception - when the employee has a guaranteed employment contract. I've seen it in the business world a fair amount. If you're payday is secure, the balance of power changes...a lot.

Hell no it does not; guaranteed money absolutely does not equate to guaranteed playing time. The only organization with the authority to do anything about a team that benches it's talent is the player's union and, as long as the owner's still pay the player, the union can't do jack. The Maloofs don't have to justify to Stern whether they play a guy and why. The owner can tell the player, "You're going to have your minutes cut to fifteen a game so we can see what Ronnie Price has to offer. And, if you don't like it, you can go home and sit out your contract." And, as long as the player still gets paid, he pretty much has to sit on it and rotate.

 

[BudWright]

Confused team? How can that be? The starters rarely play longer than 8 minutes and the subs start coming in no matter how the starters are playing. The 10, yes 10, player rotation each play about 20-34 minutes a game, but the lineup is ever changing. The team really never gets to know a lineup, know the team member's game, etc. Then there is a player who checks himself in and out of the game, has never played "team" ball and knows he can save every game. His teammates never know what he is going to do, nor does the coach. How can they be confused?
Wait: it isn't the confused team, it is the coach.
No, wait: it is the G.M. He doesn't know what he is doing and hasn't for a while.
No, forget that: we need to play the youth even though we want the whole team blown up.
Wrong??? the players are only doing what's best for themselves regardless of the fact that they have played "hard" but for a few games, just like any other team. They are not a strong team--accept it for what it is.
Wait: The 90's teams were mediocre--but the fans stayed with them--what's that all about? How come???
No--you're all wrong, it the Maloofs. They don't want to win even though they say over and over they do. I am sure when they told you they didn't want to win, they didn't expect it to be on a website.

And what the hell does the word "some" mean?

If you think the team is confused.........
A new thread: "This thread confuses me".........Annie

 

[VF21]

Confused team? How can that be? The starters rarely play longer than 8 minutes and the subs start coming in no matter how the starters are playing. The 10, yes 10, player rotation each play about 20-34 minutes a game, but the lineup is ever changing. The team really never gets to know a lineup, know the team member's game, etc. Then there is a player who checks himself in and out of the game, has never played "team" ball and knows he can save every game. His teammates never know what he is going to do, nor does the coach. How can they be confused?
Wait: it isn't the confused team, it is the coach.
No, wait: it is the G.M. He doesn't know what he is doing and hasn't for a while.
No, forget that: we need to play the youth even though we want the whole team blown up.
Wrong??? the players are only doing what's best for themselves regardless of the fact that they have played "hard" but for a few games, just like any other team. They are not a strong team--accept it for what it is.
Wait: The 90's teams were mediocre--but the fans stayed with them--what's that all about? How come???
No--you're all wrong, it the Maloofs. They don't want to win even though they say over and over they do. I am sure when they told you they didn't want to win, they didn't expect it to be on a website.

And what the hell does the word "some" mean?

If you think the team is confused.........
A new thread: "This thread confuses me".........Annie

Great post, Annie!

You know what worries me? It made sense...

 

[vytzka]

Our team right now is in transition. I can accept that. It's painful but necessary. I'm not gonna bag on Petrie over trying to keep us afloat as he had to totally rebuild a team.

I love this team - warts, wrinkles, problems and all. They are who they are and I'm going to keep rooting for them in the hopes that next year's version will be better. I'm not saying that attitude is for everyone but it works for me. They're my team. I'm their fan. Thus has it been from the beginning and thus it ever shall be...

AMEN to that. Such posts remind me why you're my heroine, VF

GO KINGS, through good and bad times!