I'm calling it... we suck
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You have your right to be critical. We all have our view points and that's just fine. All I'm saying is maybe he is a problem, maybe he's not.
Maybe, well not maybe, I'm pretty sure Adelman had different philosophies. Maybe those philosophies fit with this group as a whole better.
Maybe you take the few nuggets we have in this mix, pair them over time with players that fit with Musselman's philosophies and bam, you now have a great team. Because, the players compliment the coaching style/philosophies and vice versa.
So, how about this. I will concede that with this group as a whole Musselman isn't the right coach. But, you know the group that we had under Adelman's philosophies never could get over the hump and win a championship either at their peak.
But, dont discount Musselman as never being able to be an effective coach. You give him the right style of players, and I bet you that he would be.
Maybe, well not maybe, I'm pretty sure Adelman had different philosophies. Maybe those philosophies fit with this group as a whole better.
Maybe you take the few nuggets we have in this mix, pair them over time with players that fit with Musselman's philosophies and bam, you now have a great team. Because, the players compliment the coaching style/philosophies and vice versa.
So, how about this. I will concede that with this group as a whole Musselman isn't the right coach. But, you know the group that we had under Adelman's philosophies never could get over the hump and win a championship either at their peak.
But, dont discount Musselman as never being able to be an effective coach. You give him the right style of players, and I bet you that he would be.
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Absolutely. And that will take the type of players we always wanted, and never quite got. Consistant players. Consistant day in and day out. Tough players. Players that are capable mentally AND physically of playing good defense. Players that will bang and rebound. Players with grit and ego's that aren't inflated to big to fit in an arena. AND, a coach with a Killer instinct with Rick Adelman never had.
We've never had all those things together in Arco at one time. If we had, we would have had a Championship banner hanging in the rafters already.
We've never had all those things together in Arco at one time. If we had, we would have had a Championship banner hanging in the rafters already.
Based upon what exactly? His nice hair?
He's done exactly diddly and squat in his entire NBA career. Indeed probably wouldn't have had an NBA career if Daddy wasn't a completely overrated losing NBA coach himself.
There is always the chance he could win more than he lost if you gave him great enough talent, but that's hardly the goal anyway, and frankly there is nothing that can be pointed at to support that assertion other than blind hope. Muss lost with Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison and Jason Richardson. Now he is losing with nearly the exact same team our last coach led to a 26-14 record. He has done nothing to inspire belief or support other than be the guy who wowed our braniac owners with his powerpoint presentation.
I absolutely 100% KNEW that if you gave our last coach the talent, that he COULD take us to the NBA Finals. He had proven it. No amount of whining, complaining, naysaying or whatever oculd take away the flat out "scoreboard" black and white of it. For all intents and purposes had played in the NBA Finals 3 times (the third being 2002 -- the East champion was obviously a feeble joke). I could not prove he would WIN a title -- but could prove he could get you right to the brink, where one missed FT, one injury, one or two bad calls, and you are there. I can, and nobody can, prove anything remotely like that about this current coach. You have to squint to see him even making the playoffs.
He's done exactly diddly and squat in his entire NBA career. Indeed probably wouldn't have had an NBA career if Daddy wasn't a completely overrated losing NBA coach himself.
There is always the chance he could win more than he lost if you gave him great enough talent, but that's hardly the goal anyway, and frankly there is nothing that can be pointed at to support that assertion other than blind hope. Muss lost with Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison and Jason Richardson. Now he is losing with nearly the exact same team our last coach led to a 26-14 record. He has done nothing to inspire belief or support other than be the guy who wowed our braniac owners with his powerpoint presentation.
I absolutely 100% KNEW that if you gave our last coach the talent, that he COULD take us to the NBA Finals. He had proven it. No amount of whining, complaining, naysaying or whatever oculd take away the flat out "scoreboard" black and white of it. For all intents and purposes had played in the NBA Finals 3 times (the third being 2002 -- the East champion was obviously a feeble joke). I could not prove he would WIN a title -- but could prove he could get you right to the brink, where one missed FT, one injury, one or two bad calls, and you are there. I can, and nobody can, prove anything remotely like that about this current coach. You have to squint to see him even making the playoffs.
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He improved a horrible team and organiztion to get 17 more wins after the first season of being there. It isn't a championship, but it was a start. And hey wouldn't you know it he had young, athletic, no ego, hungry players.
You have as little fact to back up your belief that he is a bad coach as I do that he could be a good coach with the right players.
You want to talk about loser coaches?? Rick Adelman. He had 2 FANTASTIC teams, and never could get over the hump. He will be remembered for 2 things if he never coaches again. How many games he won, and that in all those games with those 2 great teams he never won a championship. One of the best losers there ever was.
You have as little fact to back up your belief that he is a bad coach as I do that he could be a good coach with the right players.
You want to talk about loser coaches?? Rick Adelman. He had 2 FANTASTIC teams, and never could get over the hump. He will be remembered for 2 things if he never coaches again. How many games he won, and that in all those games with those 2 great teams he never won a championship. One of the best losers there ever was.
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we may suck, but i still love em 
i think muss is one of the biggest problems. this team has all stars, a former DPOY and an emerging star in kevin martin. there is no reason fror us to be in the tank like we are. i know we are a bad rebounding/ defensive team, but this bad? come on. there isn't any kind of offensive cohesion. there are no set plays. there seem to be no adjustments of any kind. the substition patterns are MINDBOGGLING. THAT is coaches fault
the sooner he gets canned the better. i wasn't a huge rick fan, but i find myself wishing he was the coach as each day passes. he's probably laughing it up right now while he enjoys life outside the NBA.
eric mussleman sucks. no way he lasts the duration of his contract. can him, draft a good big man, and lets right the ship.
go kings, even if they suck
i think muss is one of the biggest problems. this team has all stars, a former DPOY and an emerging star in kevin martin. there is no reason fror us to be in the tank like we are. i know we are a bad rebounding/ defensive team, but this bad? come on. there isn't any kind of offensive cohesion. there are no set plays. there seem to be no adjustments of any kind. the substition patterns are MINDBOGGLING. THAT is coaches fault
the sooner he gets canned the better. i wasn't a huge rick fan, but i find myself wishing he was the coach as each day passes. he's probably laughing it up right now while he enjoys life outside the NBA.
eric mussleman sucks. no way he lasts the duration of his contract. can him, draft a good big man, and lets right the ship.
go kings, even if they suck
Long time reader here and hate to chime in when the team is in such a trough. First off, I really like the brutal honesty that alot of fans have come to face: this team DOES suck.
The problem is shared between the mix of players and coaching staff. Our PF's are completely inneffective and do not fit in with whatever this team is trying to be. Miller is becoming increasingly sloth-like. Artest is question mark. Our bench continues to stink. Musselman brought in an entirely different play scheme and a new coaching staff, most of whom don't have much repetoire. Additionally, Muss's much researched-and-powerpointed offensive scheme failed miserably early on, and the defensive plan he brought here has proven no more effective than Adelman's/Turner's.
Muss has failed at what he came here to do, in my mind, but I wasn't expecting much from a stopgap coach picked from a very slim 2006 coaching market. The 2006 FA market was also very weak, and the draft was average...but this year things are a little stronger. Great draft, more promising FA market.
It's really time to unload our big contracts - even Bibby and Miller - so we have more room to sign superstars in the future. It's also time to start trading away for draft picks - a seemingly un-Petrie move, but a necessary one. We are currently in the Josh McRoberts sweepstakes, I say go for it and top it off with a Marcus Williams draft as well.
And with a bunch of promising underdogs, us fans will have alot more to cheer for in the coming years.
The problem is shared between the mix of players and coaching staff. Our PF's are completely inneffective and do not fit in with whatever this team is trying to be. Miller is becoming increasingly sloth-like. Artest is question mark. Our bench continues to stink. Musselman brought in an entirely different play scheme and a new coaching staff, most of whom don't have much repetoire. Additionally, Muss's much researched-and-powerpointed offensive scheme failed miserably early on, and the defensive plan he brought here has proven no more effective than Adelman's/Turner's.
Muss has failed at what he came here to do, in my mind, but I wasn't expecting much from a stopgap coach picked from a very slim 2006 coaching market. The 2006 FA market was also very weak, and the draft was average...but this year things are a little stronger. Great draft, more promising FA market.
It's really time to unload our big contracts - even Bibby and Miller - so we have more room to sign superstars in the future. It's also time to start trading away for draft picks - a seemingly un-Petrie move, but a necessary one. We are currently in the Josh McRoberts sweepstakes, I say go for it and top it off with a Marcus Williams draft as well.
And with a bunch of promising underdogs, us fans will have alot more to cheer for in the coming years.
He is a coach doing a lousy job. I have no need to prove that he is a bad coach. He is a losing coach. The only reason you don't fire a losing coach is if he in fact has proven he is a good coach and the losing is merely an aberration. The burden is on him, or his fan ( (s) if there is more than one left) to prove that he can do something other than lose. Which is tough. Because he never has.
Luckily, or unluckily, he is unlikely to be fired midseason, so he has at least a few more months to save himself. Otherwise, might be it for the old NBA head coaching career.
It is hardly Rick's fault that starry eyed fans with limited ability to analyze the strength of basketball teams got dazzled by his fun to watch teams without a basic comprehension that the opposing teams were NBA dynasties populated by all time great players.
Luckily, or unluckily, he is unlikely to be fired midseason, so he has at least a few more months to save himself. Otherwise, might be it for the old NBA head coaching career.
It is hardly Rick's fault that starry eyed fans with limited ability to analyze the strength of basketball teams got dazzled by his fun to watch teams without a basic comprehension that the opposing teams were NBA dynasties populated by all time great players.
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we may suck, but i still love em
i think muss is one of the biggest problems. this team has all stars, a former DPOY and an emerging star in kevin martin. there is no reason fror us to be in the tank like we are. i know we are a bad rebounding/ defensive team, but this bad? come on. there isn't any kind of offensive cohesion. there are no set plays. there seem to be no adjustments of any kind. the substition patterns are MINDBOGGLING. THAT is coaches fault
the sooner he gets canned the better. i wasn't a huge rick fan, but i find myself wishing he was the coach as each day passes. he's probably laughing it up right now while he enjoys life outside the NBA.
eric mussleman sucks. no way he lasts the duration of his contract. can him, draft a good big man, and lets right the ship.
go kings, even if they suck
i think muss is one of the biggest problems. this team has all stars, a former DPOY and an emerging star in kevin martin. there is no reason fror us to be in the tank like we are. i know we are a bad rebounding/ defensive team, but this bad? come on. there isn't any kind of offensive cohesion. there are no set plays. there seem to be no adjustments of any kind. the substition patterns are MINDBOGGLING. THAT is coaches fault
the sooner he gets canned the better. i wasn't a huge rick fan, but i find myself wishing he was the coach as each day passes. he's probably laughing it up right now while he enjoys life outside the NBA.
eric mussleman sucks. no way he lasts the duration of his contract. can him, draft a good big man, and lets right the ship.
go kings, even if they suck
This team has no all stars. Bibby never made it there because of the quality of point guards in the West, and Brad was an all star in another life. Ron plays like an all star when he chooses to.
First and foremost, welcome to Kingsfans.com We're glad to have you...
GREAT first post, BTW. What I read in your comments is that you, too, care about this team. I think we're at the tough love stage - we care enough to know when it's time to make the deep cuts and let them start to heal...
And you bring up a good point. It's a lot of fun being the team on the way up. Some of my best memories as a Kings fan are from the days when we were the only ones who had faith in our team because the rest of the league hadn't seen yet what we had seen.
There's a reason the British used to say, "The king is dead. Long live the King!"
Right now, we're watching a team on life support. I say we pull the plug and let them go. Bring in the new group and watch as they crawl, and then hesitantly at first but with growing confidence walk and then run...
It can be a good time to be a Kings fan.
GREAT first post, BTW. What I read in your comments is that you, too, care about this team. I think we're at the tough love stage - we care enough to know when it's time to make the deep cuts and let them start to heal...
And you bring up a good point. It's a lot of fun being the team on the way up. Some of my best memories as a Kings fan are from the days when we were the only ones who had faith in our team because the rest of the league hadn't seen yet what we had seen.
There's a reason the British used to say, "The king is dead. Long live the King!"
Right now, we're watching a team on life support. I say we pull the plug and let them go. Bring in the new group and watch as they crawl, and then hesitantly at first but with growing confidence walk and then run...
It can be a good time to be a Kings fan.
Musselman is losing with a team that can't play tough defensive basketball and still have offense. They collectively as a group don't have the physical capability. So, the losing is not all on him, the players can't do what he's asking them to. The same way the couldnt' defend and rebound when Adelman told them to, except for one year, when all the players were much younger.
Who care's if they are a dynasty. A great coach with a great team finds a way to win. As much as I hate to admit it:
Phil Jackson= Killer Instinct
Rick Adelman= No Killer Instinct
You can say he had better players, but there are David vs. Goliath stories all over sports over the course of history. The Kings competed with the best, and in the end could not get.
IF the Kings had gotten past the Lakers the year they went to 7 games in the WCF finals they would have swept the New Jersey Nets as the Lakers did.
Football is a game of inches.
Basketball is a game of seconds.
Who care's if they are a dynasty. A great coach with a great team finds a way to win. As much as I hate to admit it:
Phil Jackson= Killer Instinct
Rick Adelman= No Killer Instinct
You can say he had better players, but there are David vs. Goliath stories all over sports over the course of history. The Kings competed with the best, and in the end could not get.
IF the Kings had gotten past the Lakers the year they went to 7 games in the WCF finals they would have swept the New Jersey Nets as the Lakers did.
Football is a game of inches.
Basketball is a game of seconds.
yeah, but i'd rather be excited about a young lottery players potential than players that will sulk ccuz they aren't starting, getting enough shot or just not giving a full effort when they're on the court. i'd be happy if the kings got rid of some of the others so some of our young guys can get some war time experience instead of watching on the bench. we are only delaying their progress by delaying the rebuilding process.
Yeah.... we suck.... I kinda noticed that too....
You just have to take yourself out of it mentally. Just lower your expectation. Honestly you gotta be insane to expect anything great with the roster we got.
You think the team sucks 'cause it was great once. It will be great again sooner or later. It has to, it's just how thing goes. You don't think one is good if one wasn't bad before. As long as the Maloofs/Geoff have the will to make the team great, sooner or later, it'll happen. And it's evidently so from seeing how great we were couple years ago.
Rome wasn't built in a day, people.
You just have to take yourself out of it mentally. Just lower your expectation. Honestly you gotta be insane to expect anything great with the roster we got.
You think the team sucks 'cause it was great once. It will be great again sooner or later. It has to, it's just how thing goes. You don't think one is good if one wasn't bad before. As long as the Maloofs/Geoff have the will to make the team great, sooner or later, it'll happen. And it's evidently so from seeing how great we were couple years ago.
Rome wasn't built in a day, people.
Any argument based on the idea of pointing out Adelman's flaws in order to make Musselman appear better by comparison is a losing proposition. Adelman may not, in fact, have proven himself to be as good a coach as Phil Jackson, but that doesn't change the fact that Musselman can't lace Adelman's shoes when it comes to coaching.
You are giving Musselman more benefit of the doubt than he has earned. This isn't his first NBA head coaching job... 89-108; that's his story. Until he proves that he can win ANY thing at an NBA level with ANY players, he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Rick Adelman... Hell, he doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Doc Rivers.
You are giving Musselman more benefit of the doubt than he has earned. This isn't his first NBA head coaching job... 89-108; that's his story. Until he proves that he can win ANY thing at an NBA level with ANY players, he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Rick Adelman... Hell, he doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Doc Rivers.
Amen VF, I agree with this completley. However, I'm among those not willing to give up on Muss yet (refering to earlier post). This team has been banged up and has bad chemistry issues. Now some of this can be attributed to Musselman and if these problems continue with a revamped team he will be culpable. However, right now we are playing with an unmotivated and selfish team. While this is partially the responsibility of the coach, a manager in any business can only have a relatively minor effect (roughly 10% according to HBR studies) on a person's motivation and desire barring a special circumstance. He's clearly is a very knowledgeable coach although he still needs to prove he can translate that knowledge into wins like he did with the Warriors. His biggest challenge will be co-existing with the players, which has been a weakness of his. Still, the success he had with the Warriors was largely predicated on his having competent defensive big men. Right now he is struggling to adapt to a very flawed and mediocre team with a number of players acting in their own self-interest (very similar to the Clippers team several years ago that was supposed to be a contender but missed the playoffs). In essence this is a classic chicken or the egg argument. A lot of great coaches have struggled in their first seasons with bad teams. As a UCLA fan, I can tell you that Howland's first season with our team drew similar scrutiny. As I outlined in another post, I think that Petrie is operating with a plan as we have not tied up long-term contracts or traded away any young players/picks to grasp at the 8th seed. I think that both Petrie and Muss deserve some support as they attempt to reprove themselves in revamping this team.
What a load of utter nonsense.
"A great coach with a great team finds a way to win". Yeah. Right. Oh, unless of course he's faced with a greater team, and might I mention healthier team? Phil Jackson has 9 NBA championships. 9 of 9. In every single one of those 9 championships he had the better team, the best player. He was favored to win every championship series, including our WCF matchup BTW, and there was a reason for it. Never once has he coached a team to a title without a Top 10 all time talent on it. So what, now Rick shows up with teams without those kinds of players and because Rick is a great coach with a great team then Phil, another great coach with a greater team, is supposed to lose? How can he? He's a great coach with a great team afterall!
Try telling Jerry Sloan he lacks a killer instinct. Just call your dentist ahead of time.And this whole nonsense argument only gets more nonsensical after we start trying to attach it to a Muss discussion. Muss is making a lot of Adleman bashers look stupid right now, and I know that has to be painful. But persisting in even trying to draw a parallel between a neophyte nobody and a 700 win coach in the face of mounting disaster makes it only worse.
P.S. As an asidse Joker, I actualy tentatively supported the Muss hiring. Thought we should have hired Elie, but thought Muss was a decent fall back plan and infinitely superior to Whiz.
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I didn't really have any expectations for the Kings this season. I don't mind losing as long as it leads to a better tomorrow. I just don't want to see us go back to the old days of stinking it up every year where we're lucky to win 25 games per season.
I still believe in Petrie and he will do something to fix what is going on. Just need to be patient.
And, as Cartman would say, "More people will come if you bring punch and pie."
I still believe in Petrie and he will do something to fix what is going on. Just need to be patient.
And, as Cartman would say, "More people will come if you bring punch and pie."
I would like to see a starting lineup of the kids. At least they would be exciting and be getting some experience. These old guys just don't have what it takes and the more they show their inability to play competitivley in todays league, the less value they are going to have as far as trades are concerned. They get older and slower by the minute. I get up early and watch every game on TV, and I can count on one hand how many games I have been able to watch in their entirety without falling asleep. They are boring. Thanks Geoff.
I had hoped Musselman would be part of the answer but I agree, he seems to be part of the problem. As someone already said, he is nothing more than an interim coach. I still don't, and never will, understand, why you get rid of a coach of Rick Adelmans stature and history of success for a guy that has never had any real success in the NBA. All he has done is ride the coattails of his fathers reputation. He seems to have schmoozed the Malloofs into thinking he would be the salvation of the franchise. I hire lots of people and I know the type. Great in interviews. Talks a great game but when it comes down to crunch time, they just can't get it done. He seems to be so far in over his head that it is sad. The look on his face on the sidelines says it all time and time again.