Trading Bibby/Miller for expirings/draft picks

gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#1
#1
So how does everybody feel about just completely dismantling this team and going into rebuilding mode? (As opposed to "make a few quick fixes to try to sneak into a first round playoff exit" mode). We already have a lot of money coming off the books after this season, so why not get a few more expirings for more money to work with? And then we have a really good draft coming up, so more picks will be a plus. Especially if we get them from some atlantic division team or other team with a good chance at getting a high pick (other then us).

I say its time to rebuild around Artest and Martin. What we got isnt really working, Bibby isnt playing like himself and I'm sure he'll come around, but didnt he say he wants to opt out? He's overpaid as it is..

And this isnt really my reaction to our teams horrible play of late, IMHO a massive overhaul should have started with the Webber trade...But oh well, I'm not the GM...Petrie is. And if he wants to do a slapdash rebuild on the fly, more power to him.

Well, here's my wacky rebuilding scenerio:

Trade Bibby, Miller, KT, SAR, for as many expirings and draft picks as possible....Dont worry about who we get in return as long as they wont be around after this season. Winning isnt a priority. KT might be kind of hard to move considering his contract...But I'm sure Petrie can figure it out :D

Let Price be starting PG and call up Justin Williams from D-league to be our starting PF/C. This will serve the dual purpose of allowing the youngsters to develop while at the same time allowing the Kings to lose even more then they are now, giving us a higher draft pick. (This is in bold for all you people getting ready to jump on me for suggesting we call up a D-Leaguer and make him a starter).

Draft Oden....Haha...Probably not, but I'm sure if we lose enough or get picks from teams that lose enough we'll end up with some quality talent given the draft this year.

Use all the money from expirings to pick up good veteren players to fill all the holes on the team (Starting PG,PF,C).

And there you have it: A young team built around a core of Martin, Artest, and hopefully a high quality defensive big and high quality PG aquired through free agency.


I know its a doofy rebuilding scenerio, but frankly its better then what Petrie has been doing these past few seasons. And if there was a season to start rebuilding its this one. I'd rather have a bad team that turns into a great team again then a mediocre team that remains mediocre.
 
nbrans

nbrans

All-Star
#2
#2
Not sure if you're following the rumors (granted, they're just rumors, we'll see what the eventual result is) but I haven't seen a printed report anywhere that a team has offered a 2007 draft pick for Allen Iverson. If they're not offering picks for Iverson, a hall of famer and the league's second leading scorer, what makes you think they're going to offer picks for Bibby and Miller?

There really aren't very many expiring contracts out there, and the Kings actually have some of them. About the only trade for an expiring that I could realistically see is SAR for PJ Brown approximately two seconds before the deadline, when/if Chicago has given up all hope of getting Kevin Garnett. Other than that, I'd like to see some suggestions.

And even if you get expiring contracts, what are you going to do with them? It's a very, very weak year for free agency. I don't see how $10 million more is really going to make a difference in the offseason. If Bibby opts out (looking like a big "if"), the Kings already have the right amount of room -- about $12-15 million, enough to possibly make offers for Mo and Darko for about what they're worth. Any more than that and you're just blowing your money.

Once teams get wind of a blowing-things-up plan the value of Kings players sink like a stone and you're lucky to end up with a team's garbage contracts.

We all just need to be patient. Address trades as they come, try to be opportunistic, keep building through the draft and free agency, and, yeah, continue to suck this year. I really fail to see how a fire sale is going to help anything.
 
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Packt

Packt

Starter
#6
#6
Weak FA class and not knowing where the pick would fall is a bad combination. You have to get someone good back, or else you just traded two of your top guys for what could end up being a late teen pick and cap space when there are no difference makers in the market.
 
HndsmCelt

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#7
#7
Sure looks good... could even have been pulled off in Augest, but at this stage I doubt the takers are out there with enough expiring contracts or the willingness to let go of a firstround pick who's value is currently unknown.
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#8
#8
HndsmCelt said:
Sure looks good... could even have been pulled off in Augest, but at this stage I doubt the takers are out there with enough expiring contracts or the willingness to let go of a firstround pick who's value is currently unknown.
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between 1 and 14 for sure
 
nbrans

nbrans

All-Star
#9
#9
HndsmCelt said:
Sure looks good... could even have been pulled off in Augest, but at this stage I doubt the takers are out there with enough expiring contracts or the willingness to let go of a firstround pick who's value is currently unknown.
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Not sure I agree. Miller's stock was not exactly very high after his late season performance and his apocalyptic showing against the Spurs.

Bibby -- maybe? But he's pretty much an expiring on his own.
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#11
#11
Actually Artest should be moved sooner rather than later. He isn't patient enough. Anyone who knows anything about Artest will tell you that his attitude really heads south when losing streaks pile up. Don't look now, but we are racking up the losses. He isn't patient enough to be a building block. Now is the time to move him before he becomes a problem. I would think that Isiah Thomas and the Knicks would part with Channing Frye and filler for Artest. I think we are at the tipping point of going to a youth movement.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#12
#12
JB_kings said:
Actually Artest should be moved sooner rather than later. He isn't patient enough. Anyone who knows anything about Artest will tell you that his attitude really heads south when losing streaks pile up. Don't look now, but we are racking up the losses. He isn't patient enough to be a building block. Now is the time to move him before he becomes a problem. I would think that Isiah Thomas and the Knicks would part with Channing Frye and filler for Artest. I think we are at the tipping point of going to a youth movement.
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Oh hell no.
 
A

artest93fan

G-League
#13
#13
how about these trades?


Miller & reef to chicago for 1st round pick
bulls do this to get front court depth

and then

Mike to the bucks for mo williams and their 1st round
bucks do this to gain a pg that they need
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#14
#14
I'd be ok with this, but like nbrans pointed out teams aren't jumping to give away first round picks this year, especially this early in the season. I think its possible that we can get a few picks but we'd probably have to assume bad contracts to do it.

I think the Sixers problem is they want a pick, a young talent or proven veteran and expiring contracts to fill out the deal. They may get one or two but certainly not all three at this point.
 
T

Troy

Starter
#15
#15
I think that with Miller and Bibby gone, if they go...Artest will know he is the man, the frachise guy that the team is being built around, KMart as well. I hope he will have the patience. How about Bibby/Miller/expirings for KG? I know this has been brought up many times and that's not the only offer, but Artest with another defensive monster, especially a big one in a 4/5 should make us into that Defensive team we are so striving to be and only fooling ourselves into being now with our current roster of Bibby and Miller. They are part of the old regime that was run out of town with the firing of RA and the Princeton system. Brad being our only 7 footer is happy shooting 18 foot jumpers instead of going inside and grabbing rebounds and being a shot blocker we so desperataly need. He can do what he can and is not athletic so I think this is more than we can ask from him.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
#16
I'm for the general plan, if it can be executed. And if either one of thse guys was giving us basically anything right now, there would always be teams in the hunt looking to load up. In the East in particular where a Bard or Bibby type talent could easily vault you straight in the playoffs, or up into the Top 4 if you already are a playoff team.

Mentioned before, Bibby could have them thinking title in a place like Cleveland, or division title in a place like Boston. As for Brad, NJ's looking for a big, Washington's sytem is built for him etc. SAR would seem to have value to a place like Chicago. The key to deals like these is that you have to give other teams what they want -- and in all of the above you have to be delivering a put them over the top type piece to a team with playoff aspirations. Do that, and those type teams might well let go of kids, expirings, picks (but the picks will be, if everything goes as planned, late round ratehr than lottery).
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#17
#17
How is 08's free agency looking?

If we get contracts that expire after this season or the next as well as have a bunch of youngsters on cheap contracts we could really get some good players in '08 if they are available.

I guess you could say the King's slow rebuilding process began with the Webber for "flexible peices" trade...So its not like another couple seasons with a mediocre to bad team is out of the question before the Kings get good again....In fact its highly likely barring another Peja for Artest type of trade.
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#18
#18
BMiller52 said:
Oh hell no.
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Hey, it's already starting. In comments from last night's game he slapped Bibby in the face by saying he now needs to learn how to guard two players because Bibby isn't guarding his man. And then he knocks Muss' defensive schemes. I personally think he's right about Bibby and Muss, but he's saying it to the media when he shouldn't. I give him about another 3 losses and he's going to be saying a lot more. You don't get a chance to build around this guy - he won't let you. Unless this team goes out and wins 2 of the next 3, he'll be making more comments. I like Ron, but he's the piece to add to a good team - he's not the piece to build around.
 
BawLa

BawLa

Starter
#19
#19
nbrans said:
Not sure if you're following the rumors (granted, they're just rumors, we'll see what the eventual result is) but I haven't seen a printed report anywhere that a team has offered a 2007 draft pick for Allen Iverson. If they're not offering picks for Iverson, a hall of famer and the league's second leading scorer, what makes you think they're going to offer picks for Bibby and Miller?

There really aren't very many expiring contracts out there, and the Kings actually have some of them. About the only trade for an expiring that I could realistically see is SAR for PJ Brown approximately two seconds before the deadline, when/if Chicago has given up all hope of getting Kevin Garnett. Other than that, I'd like to see some suggestions.

And even if you get expiring contracts, what are you going to do with them? It's a very, very weak year for free agency. I don't see how $10 million more is really going to make a difference in the offseason. If Bibby opts out (looking like a big "if"), the Kings already have the right amount of room -- about $12-15 million, enough to possibly make offers for Mo and Darko for about what they're worth. Any more than that and you're just blowing your money.

Once teams get wind of a blowing-things-up plan the value of Kings players sink like a stone and you're lucky to end up with a team's garbage contracts.

We all just need to be patient. Address trades as they come, try to be opportunistic, keep building through the draft and free agency, and, yeah, continue to suck this year. I really fail to see how a fire sale is going to help anything.
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Totally agree.

If you look at the draft situation as of today, we are tied for the 9th-14th pick. For the sake of conversation, say we are able to land a top 10 pick. Well, as of today's rankings according to ESPN, 6 of the top 10 prospects are power forwards. Oden is the only center, and I think it is safe to say that we are not "Oden worthy". Anyway, that means that there is a good chance we can land a PF worth building around. Furthermore, we have some pieces already in place that would work with a good prospective PF.

Martin and Artest are the obvious starters of a successful team. You just need a roleplaying PG and PF and I think you can keep Miller. The PF seems easy as long as you get that high pick. Brandan Wright, Darrell Arthur, Al Horford and Josh McRoberts are all within range if we can get to the top 10. The PG needs to be a Nash type, someone who will rack up assists, can get to the stripe, and can knock down the occasional 3. I know it is a huge if, but Chauncy Billups would be a huge acquisition. I guess the biggest question with that is could he co-exist with Ron Artest. Maybe we just throw all of our expiring money at him and use the MLE on a backup center. Chauncy is attainable IMO...because of his age we could offer him a longer, more secure contract.

The opposite way to go would be to nab McDyess through free agency and draft a PG. GP would probably feel more comfortable with that. ;)

Here's my question: if we can raise the value of some of our current players, is there a chance we can trade up in the draft? Say for example from 10 to 6 or 7 and we throw in SAR. Someone at 6 or 7 could use extra veteran talent and take a seemingly small hit on the draft. Considering how deep the draft is supposed to be this year it seems phesable to me.


Billups/Price/Douby
Martin/Salmons/Cisco
Artest/Salmons/Cisco
Top10pick/KT
Miller/MLE

or

Draft/Price/Douby
Martin/Salmons/Cisco
Artest/Salmons/Cisco
McDyess/KT
Miller/MLE


 
T

Troy

Starter
#20
#20
GP definately likes to draft guards, especially combo ones. Look at the last few years when we really need a big. A big takes longer to develop and many times doesn't pan out in the end. So I rather get a young big who has at least a year or 2 of NBA experience and shows potential, but we are the Kings here so anyone who is big and can stick their arms up and look menacing would be an improvement! :p
 
H

HighFlyingMonkey

Starter
#21
#21
I think we can keep Miller if we are in a position to draft someone like Brandan Wright. Long, Athletic PF who blocks shots, rebounds, and has a developing post-up game. Though his effort is suspect, he has been compared to KG.

Trade Bibby/Expiring to Seattle for Earl Watson/1st Rounder and I think we have a solid footing in the Draft.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#22
#22
If we deal for expirings and start building through the draft Artest will want out. He isn't old but he is entering his prime. He won't wait 5-6 years for this team to develop. And if we give away what we have we'll have very few tangible trade assets.

Time to start building around Artest and Martin, but I don't know if this is the way.
 
BawLa

BawLa

Starter
#23
#23
SacTownKid said:
If we deal for expirings and start building through the draft Artest will want out. He isn't old but he is entering his prime. He won't wait 5-6 years for this team to develop. And if we give away what we have we'll have very few tangible trade assets.

Time to start building around Artest and Martin, but I don't know if this is the way.
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That is certainly a possibility. Convincing him to endure a rebuild is not going to be easy. I think we may have to let him be commander until we can lock him up in his next contract. Let him jack up shots, let him try to do it all, just so that he will want to stay. And begin the rebuild.
 
K

KINGSFAN-FROM-L.A.

G-League
#28
#28
WOW!!!!!!!!!! ok here you go.. sorry for using profanity against your mother or something cause thats really rude... oh i forgot i used caps lock and i actually didnt use profanity against your mother
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#29
#29
KINGSFAN-FROM-L.A. said:
I THINK YOU MISSED MY POINT ABOUT THE ARENA:rolleyes:
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No we didn't. But there is NOTHING more demoralizign for a fanbase, or worse for the arena, than wallowing in depressing, boring mediocrity. many many people here are scared of rebuilding. but rebuilding brings hope, youth, excitement, and a renewal of wacky delusions of grandeur. Every rook is a future all star etc.
 
SacKings384

SacKings384

Starter
#30
#30
KINGSFAN-FROM-L.A. said:
WOW!!!!!!!!!! ok here you go.. sorry for using profanity against your mother or something cause thats really rude... oh i forgot i used caps lock and i actually didnt use profanity against your mother
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Huh? What does profanity against his/her mother have to do with anything? Back to the point. Brick is right. Rebuilding brings hope, it brings speculation, it brings progress, and it brings excitement. I am a firm believer that you either need to be a championship caliber team, on the verge of being a championship team, or rebuilding. There is no use in being in the middle ground. Barely making the playoffs is of no use. Making the playoffs last season imo was great because it seemed like it was going to be a sign of things to come. Now barely making the playoffs would be rather pointless. The problem with rebuilding? You have a very good chance of absolutely destruction for a long time, such as Portland who have been unable to get out of the massive hole they've dug. I have relative faith in Petrie that he wouldn't dig a whole too big to get out of.
 
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