Does anyone here honestly think we should of let Adelman stick around another season to see how he works with our team? I don't want to be judgemental but Muss has a really erratic coaching style and lets face it... if we weren't Kings fans we would never watch this version of the Kings play cuz it's just really ugly basketball.
Mistake to fire Adelman?
- Thread starter Beezy
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I think we need to give Muss a full year to even begin to pass judgement on him. At this time we should have the team that he wants and he'll have had time to put his stamp on this team. At this point he is working with leftovers of RAs team. At the very least a total 180 degree turnaround takes time going from a strictly offensive team that could score at just about every opportunity at it's peak a few years ago to defensive team that stops the opponents dead in it's tracks rather than the Suns and you score, we score back and forth. We are trying to control the tempo more and play to our strengths. While you can train defense to an extent, you need the right players to carry it out to a effective degree. With Artest we have a great start and the rest of the team has picked it up and played some great D, as least in certain stretches, we have to work on doing this longer and then being able to score ourselves. Our shots will begin to fall, but until they do, we aren't winning many games especially without Bibby and Miller's shots falling.
Obviously it was.
Now that said its still too early to 100% write off Muss as an adequate repacement, and we've had about 4 or 5 different versions of this same theme cropping up in the last couple of days. Let's just suffice it to say that it wasn't the 700 win coach holding back our team from its obvious championship destiny. Now for Muss's sake you just have to hope the owners aren't back smoking the good weed with Mo once again, and thinking that we should be 17-0 if it weren't for that damn coach.
Now that said its still too early to 100% write off Muss as an adequate repacement, and we've had about 4 or 5 different versions of this same theme cropping up in the last couple of days. Let's just suffice it to say that it wasn't the 700 win coach holding back our team from its obvious championship destiny. Now for Muss's sake you just have to hope the owners aren't back smoking the good weed with Mo once again, and thinking that we should be 17-0 if it weren't for that damn coach.
I think it was the right move at the wrong time.
Prior to Artest's arrival Adelman was done. We wouldn't even be having this discussion. Then Artest shows up, things get going the team gets hot, we make the playoffs and lose respectably. People's expectations got up again.
This has created numerous problems for the new coach - he's got the dueling expectations of transforming the play on the court and winning right away. Yet the moves made this offseason seemed to indicate the front office was content to let the coach implement the new system first, then find complimentary players to fit in. It sure didn't look like they were doing anything to make us more competitive, that's why there was so much whining about not getting big men around here.
So enter Muss, he puts together a defensive scheme which results in some ugly low scoring games, but our offense isn't firing right. I'm sure he got pressured into going back to the old offense because fans were griping. Let's face it, winning low scoring games isn't pretty but losing them is even worse. Throw in a few untimely injuries and a rough break in the schedule and things look a lot worse than they are. Things will get better eventually.
Prior to Artest's arrival Adelman was done. We wouldn't even be having this discussion. Then Artest shows up, things get going the team gets hot, we make the playoffs and lose respectably. People's expectations got up again.
This has created numerous problems for the new coach - he's got the dueling expectations of transforming the play on the court and winning right away. Yet the moves made this offseason seemed to indicate the front office was content to let the coach implement the new system first, then find complimentary players to fit in. It sure didn't look like they were doing anything to make us more competitive, that's why there was so much whining about not getting big men around here.
So enter Muss, he puts together a defensive scheme which results in some ugly low scoring games, but our offense isn't firing right. I'm sure he got pressured into going back to the old offense because fans were griping. Let's face it, winning low scoring games isn't pretty but losing them is even worse. Throw in a few untimely injuries and a rough break in the schedule and things look a lot worse than they are. Things will get better eventually.
Actually Muss's defensive scheme is good at holding down old ladies' bridge clubs, not actual NBA teams. The real ones shred it. We are defensive fakers right now. We run around, overplay everything, gamble for steals, double team...but can't stop a one flippered manatee one on one or in the interior. Hence teams with organized offenses that make the extra pasa see right through the light show and carve us up because we are constantly out of position and overmatched.
But there is a question, and hence a hope, if Muss would need to use the same gambling doubling scheme if he had real personnel on the interior. If we had a big defensive frontline rather than midgets, maybe we don't have to double, maybe we can discourage penetration, maybe we can protect the rim if the guy going for the steal comes up short.
In any case, Muss's defense isn't anymore effective than the one Rick used. Statistically it is in fact worse. It just looks better. But I'm holding out hope that if Saint Geoff can be persuaded to put down the "Midget Ball for Dummies" book he's been reading, and goes out and gets us something, ANYTHING, inside, that maybe we'll become more legit.
I don't like rushing to judgement on anything, but at this point I am looking at it as a mistake until proven otherwise. Starting off the season with a very high rate of steals from lottery teams was nice, but I haven't seen much since to make me feel confident that this will end well.
Shame on Adelman for not being more communicative, talking to one's boss(es) is an important part of any job. And shame on Muss for being an 83-98 coach.
Shame on Adelman for not being more communicative, talking to one's boss(es) is an important part of any job. And shame on Muss for being an 83-98 coach.
I really felt that the "connection" between RA and Artest should have been given one more season, especially considering that there were not any spectacular coaches on the market.
Muss should be given plenty more time before we decide whether he was a mistake or not.
Past is past, now is now, deal with it.
Muss should be given plenty more time before we decide whether he was a mistake or not.
Past is past, now is now, deal with it.
Nah I don't really see it. Not willing to judge Muss based on an 8-9 team that isn't healthy and even if healthy I wouldnt expect them to be _much_ more than a .500 team. Bibby Artest and Miller have all been pretty lousy/injured.
I liked Adelman and didn't really want him to go, and of course the jury is still out on whether Muss is a) any good and b) can motivate the players even if he is. I can't pine for Adelman though because I'm 99.5% sure that if he was still here we'd be calling for his head instead. Like we did for like the last 5 years, did I dream that or something?
Seems like people are reminiscing about our old 'pretty' offense like it left with Rick Adelman. That ship sailed when the Maloofs got Artest last year and promised him he could drive the bus. He's a point forward, you know, I remember hearing that last year. If Rick was still here Ron would still have the keys, no? Or wait, Artest hasn't been playing. Yeah, maybe Rick Adelman COULD develop Kevin Martin into a star and also keep the offense clicking without his other three best players. And have a better record even though the Kings realistically aren't up there with the best in the west. He WAS pretty great, wasn't he. We should call him.
I liked Adelman and didn't really want him to go, and of course the jury is still out on whether Muss is a) any good and b) can motivate the players even if he is. I can't pine for Adelman though because I'm 99.5% sure that if he was still here we'd be calling for his head instead. Like we did for like the last 5 years, did I dream that or something?
Seems like people are reminiscing about our old 'pretty' offense like it left with Rick Adelman. That ship sailed when the Maloofs got Artest last year and promised him he could drive the bus. He's a point forward, you know, I remember hearing that last year. If Rick was still here Ron would still have the keys, no? Or wait, Artest hasn't been playing. Yeah, maybe Rick Adelman COULD develop Kevin Martin into a star and also keep the offense clicking without his other three best players. And have a better record even though the Kings realistically aren't up there with the best in the west. He WAS pretty great, wasn't he. We should call him.
We'd be in the same boat with Adleman. Some of the games we've lost we might of won, but some of the games we've won we would have lost with him(like the Bulls game in Chicago). Same boat, different cruise line.
Muss wants to be a defensive squad, but we need a big man in the middle for that. We all know that, most every personnel move thread is about getting a shotblocker.
Adleman would want to run the same offensive squad, but we don't have the firepower and Artest doesn't work right within that offense. Nevermind the fact Martin was always restrained by that offense and has blossomed now that he's out of it.
Muss wants to be a defensive squad, but we need a big man in the middle for that. We all know that, most every personnel move thread is about getting a shotblocker.
Adleman would want to run the same offensive squad, but we don't have the firepower and Artest doesn't work right within that offense. Nevermind the fact Martin was always restrained by that offense and has blossomed now that he's out of it.
Thats the main problem, and I recall bringing this up in the offseason when Muss stated how he wanted to play defense; gambling, pressure, hustle, etc. That style of defense only works when you don't leave the backdoor open. And without protecting the rim my worst fears are coming true. EVERY team is exploiting it, and it is worse before because we are further compensating, either on the perimeter or inside, than we did last year.
I thought firing Rick was a bad decision at the time, and I haven't seen anything to change my mind.
At the same time, I had high hopes for Musselman, but lately I've been worried. I'm starting to feel like he made all these great action plans in his gamebooks without really evaluating the talent he had to pull them off.
Don't get me wrong, Musselman hasn't had a fair shot yet. There's been a lot of injuries, and it's hard to get your act together when your roster is constantly changing. But, let's get real, Adelman dealt with lots of injuries too, not to mention major trades midseason, and he still brought us to the playoffs every year.
I'm just going to wait and see. Before Adelman was "not resigned" I felt confident that we'd be okay. Not a championship quality team, but I thought we'd slide into the playoffs. Now, it's not looking good, but it's early in the season. Let's just see where it goes.
At the same time, I had high hopes for Musselman, but lately I've been worried. I'm starting to feel like he made all these great action plans in his gamebooks without really evaluating the talent he had to pull them off.
Don't get me wrong, Musselman hasn't had a fair shot yet. There's been a lot of injuries, and it's hard to get your act together when your roster is constantly changing. But, let's get real, Adelman dealt with lots of injuries too, not to mention major trades midseason, and he still brought us to the playoffs every year.
I'm just going to wait and see. Before Adelman was "not resigned" I felt confident that we'd be okay. Not a championship quality team, but I thought we'd slide into the playoffs. Now, it's not looking good, but it's early in the season. Let's just see where it goes.
Could any coach do better with our squad right now?
I don't think so, not significantly.
BTW, "ring" is a bad critieria for determining talent. For every guy with a ring that really deserves it there are 2 or 3 guys who just happened to be at the right place at the right time. If the last 5 guys on the bench for the Heat last year were the first 5, no ring for the heat.
I don't think so, not significantly.
BTW, "ring" is a bad critieria for determining talent. For every guy with a ring that really deserves it there are 2 or 3 guys who just happened to be at the right place at the right time. If the last 5 guys on the bench for the Heat last year were the first 5, no ring for the heat.
I was behind getting rid of Adelman and support it today.
The problem wasn't losing Adelman ... it was replacing him with Muss.
I'd have been far more interested in the Monarch's coach. At least he'd play traditional basketball instead of this nonsense ... and would probably not let his players walk on him like they do to Muss.
Adelman was a figurehead to Artest when he was here at the end.
Now Muss is filling the same role, except he's now allowing Bibby to do the same.
Neither coach had a backbone, in my opinion.
Adelman won a lot, but he wasn't going to win his style of basketball with these players. We got hot at the end of last season - that wasn't a miracle by Adelman.
The problem wasn't losing Adelman ... it was replacing him with Muss.
I'd have been far more interested in the Monarch's coach. At least he'd play traditional basketball instead of this nonsense ... and would probably not let his players walk on him like they do to Muss.
Adelman was a figurehead to Artest when he was here at the end.
Now Muss is filling the same role, except he's now allowing Bibby to do the same.
Neither coach had a backbone, in my opinion.
Adelman won a lot, but he wasn't going to win his style of basketball with these players. We got hot at the end of last season - that wasn't a miracle by Adelman.
You guys are all missing the big issue: Adelman didn't like hanging out with the Maloofs or talking to the media. But, we know Muss likes to party right? The lesson here is that if you are ever in a position to make a hire, choose the guy who talks a good game rather than the guy with a solid resume. Talk matters more than results.
Of course, Muss could still turn this thing around, and the talent has been mismatched for about 3 years now, so we'll see. I think this offseason could be awesome considering a likely trip to the lottery and some wicked cap room.
Of course, Muss could still turn this thing around, and the talent has been mismatched for about 3 years now, so we'll see. I think this offseason could be awesome considering a likely trip to the lottery and some wicked cap room.