Kevin Martin will be an All-Star this year...
- Thread starter Merdiesel
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Doubt it this year -- so much competition out west, Kobe, Ray, Nash, Paul, JRich, Bibby, Parker, Baron, TMac etc. Then Brand, KG, Dirk, Duncan, Ron, Lewis, AK47, Marion, Melo etc. at the forwards. Yao and Camby up front. Just tough. Best shot would be with significant injuries (and not to him obviously).
If he keeps the average up in the 20pt range, an M.I.P. award could come though, and that would be a good platform for an eventual All-Star bid. Much will depend on our own fate. If we slide off into oblivion, then Kevin could easily end up like JRich or Maggette struggling to make it in off a bad team. On the other hand if we ever made back to elite status, he could slide in like Peja did as clearly part of the winning component.
If he keeps the average up in the 20pt range, an M.I.P. award could come though, and that would be a good platform for an eventual All-Star bid. Much will depend on our own fate. If we slide off into oblivion, then Kevin could easily end up like JRich or Maggette struggling to make it in off a bad team. On the other hand if we ever made back to elite status, he could slide in like Peja did as clearly part of the winning component.
I guess it could happen, the guard pool in the West is just so deep. Even if he's playing better than them, look at the guys he has to get in over that have much bigger names:
Ray Allen
Raja Bell
Kobe Bryant
Manu Ginobili
Josh Howard
Corey Maggette
Tracy McGrady
Mike Miller
Jason Richardson
Leandro Barbosa
Mike Bibby
Sam Cassell
Baron Davis
Devin Harris
Mike James
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Tony Parker
Jason Terry
Obviously not all of them can make the all-star team. But...
Kobe, T-Mac, Ray Allen, Nash, and Chris Paul seem to be mortal locks. That's five guards right there. I don't think they'd have 6 guards (although if T-Mac is listed as a SF it'd help Kevin out a lot).
haha, you obviously haven't been following all-star game selections very long.
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There are just too many superstar guards in the west, unfortunately.
If the ASG roster was decided purely based on performance, then there might be a chance (though five games in is WAY to early to make that prediction), but Kevin just doesn't sell as many jerseys as the Kobes and T-Macs he's contending with.
Same reason Mike hasn't yet made the roster, and quite possibly still won't.
If the ASG roster was decided purely based on performance, then there might be a chance (though five games in is WAY to early to make that prediction), but Kevin just doesn't sell as many jerseys as the Kobes and T-Macs he's contending with.
Same reason Mike hasn't yet made the roster, and quite possibly still won't.
If he continues to play like this throughout the season, and that's a big IF, then as I said in another thread, he deserves to be an all-star. 23.5 points in only 14 shots a game is absolutely incredible. Of course, I don't think he would get the all-star nod even if he continues to play like this--Kobe, Nash, Ray Allen, Tony Parker, Chris Paul will all most likely get their all-star nods as long as they stay healthy and play decently, and it's almost impossible for a relative unknown like Martin to get a spot even if he outperforms more well-known players like a Baron Davis and a, well, Mike Bibby. Bibby's been barely edged out of an all-star spot a few times now--if the Kings end up with a good record, the Kings will probably have an all-star spot going to either Bibby (if he can shake off his nagging injury and play well), Artest (if he can shoot better), or even Brad Miller (if he plays well and no other C besides Yao like Kaman or even Bynum stands out).
Basically its very hard to make the All-Star team unless you are an "and" player. As in KG AND the Minnesota Timberwolves; Ray Allen AND the Seattle Supersonics. Guys who are clearly the straw that stirs their respective teams. The other way is to be a 2nd or 3rd fiddle on a really good team and sneak in the way Peja did a few times, or Rashard Lewis from a few years back. But that's dependant on your team getting more than one guy in, and with you as the second. And its pretty much only for a 50 win and up type team. You can score 22-23 and still not make the All Star game fairly easily -- jsut ask a Maggette or JRich. Normally you need to either be "the man" or be a big winner to get that extra push.
i really like your enthusiasm and confidence in martin, but all star? look at the list of guards in the west... theres no way hes gettin it this year. you cant say that martin will be VOTED (remember, while kmart is an all star to us, hes a virtual unknown eveyrwhere else) over most of those players. look at their names. look at their nicknames. theyre known as brands. you say kmart, and every1 outside of sac thinks kenyon.
kmarts doin great, but getting to be selected as an all star usually comes with a couple snubs, and a couple on the bubble votes. not this year.
kmarts doin great, but getting to be selected as an all star usually comes with a couple snubs, and a couple on the bubble votes. not this year.
that statement drives me nuts. makes me wanna break something. mike's been snubbed too many times. deserves as much as the next guy. F#$&!
kev's gonna be something special in this league, i'm certain. big believer. maybe not this year, but eventually, very strong possibility. i got high hopes for him.
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Maybe if we can get him the ball a little more he can just take over and become an "and" type of player. I mean Ron is our "and" player but he is not an offensive all-star.
Unfortunately, right now, in terms of an all star bid, Kevin is just that kid from Western Carolina with the akward looking jumper. But I too feel that the emergence of KMoney is inevitable.
The problem with Kevin is that he is not as good at setting other guys up or creating his own shot, which you see with most all-stars. He is getting there though. He is starting to get better at recognizing when to pass and when to shoot.
It's kinda wierd but his statline is starting to look a lot like Peja's did.
Unfortunately, right now, in terms of an all star bid, Kevin is just that kid from Western Carolina with the akward looking jumper. But I too feel that the emergence of KMoney is inevitable.
The problem with Kevin is that he is not as good at setting other guys up or creating his own shot, which you see with most all-stars. He is getting there though. He is starting to get better at recognizing when to pass and when to shoot.
It's kinda wierd but his statline is starting to look a lot like Peja's did.
the only way Martin becomes an All-Star THIS year is if he continues what he is doing over the course of the season and is our leading scorer(at 23+) and keeps his %'s up AND the Kings are the surprise team in the West and are in 1st, 2nd or 3rd place overall by the end of the selection process. If that happens, then he would be our MVP and a good candidate for the All-Star team. Coaches reward the players on the good teams...and even then, IF all those things happened, it'd still be a stretch for him to be selected over Bibby and/or Artest.
Bingo on all counts. And I've been saying this for a while.
He is not, at this point a guy you just throw the ball to and something good happens. He's a guy you set up. Correction, he is NORMALLY a guy you set up, but he has a few nifty moves (the floaters off the drive) and spurts where he looks like something more. And its that latter trend which could one day make him more than a Peja type finisher. And make hiim an All-Star on his own merits regardless of the team's fortunes. We'll see. There has been distinct improvement every year for Kevin, but everybody tops off sooner or later, and Kevin is headed into that age range where there will come a point where he is what he is. If its just a finisher, he'll alwasy be on the bubble. If its a creater as well as a finisher, well there's your All-Star.
I really don't think the Peja comparison is apt at all. Peja was an outside shooter. Whatever one on one moves he had was to set up his outside shot. That's it. In order to get up to 20 ppg Peja needs people to feed him and set him up.
Kevin, at this stage in his career, is already as good as Peja (better I'd say) at creating opportunities for himself -- not by setting up his outside shot but by getting into the lane and to the free throw line. He sometimes struggles when he gets the ball late in the shot clock and he works better within the offense, but his ability to drive in the lane is unlike anything Peja could do. Plus he plays above the rim.
I think in order to take it to the next, next level Kevin needs a go-to move that he can pull out late in the shot clock or whenever the team needs a shot. Bibby has his pull-up jumper, Ron has his step-back shot... something like that. Right now Kevin struggles with a go-to move because he has a slow release and his handle isn't great. This is the one thing that is holding Kevin back from genuine stardom. Until he can create a high percentage shot on his own he will be a second-fiddle player like Peja.
But I don't see a reason why Kevin can't develop that go-to move -- he has the athleticism and the tools, it's just a matter of finding one unstoppable move and practicing it until he can consistently get a high-percentage shot.
And I don't think we're approaching Kevin's peak or his "topping off" point. He's only 23!!
Kevin, at this stage in his career, is already as good as Peja (better I'd say) at creating opportunities for himself -- not by setting up his outside shot but by getting into the lane and to the free throw line. He sometimes struggles when he gets the ball late in the shot clock and he works better within the offense, but his ability to drive in the lane is unlike anything Peja could do. Plus he plays above the rim.
I think in order to take it to the next, next level Kevin needs a go-to move that he can pull out late in the shot clock or whenever the team needs a shot. Bibby has his pull-up jumper, Ron has his step-back shot... something like that. Right now Kevin struggles with a go-to move because he has a slow release and his handle isn't great. This is the one thing that is holding Kevin back from genuine stardom. Until he can create a high percentage shot on his own he will be a second-fiddle player like Peja.
But I don't see a reason why Kevin can't develop that go-to move -- he has the athleticism and the tools, it's just a matter of finding one unstoppable move and practicing it until he can consistently get a high-percentage shot.
And I don't think we're approaching Kevin's peak or his "topping off" point. He's only 23!!
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The comparison I made to Peja was strictly in terms of his statline. 20+ points, half a dozen boards, 8-14 free throws made on a good percentage, a few assists, and maybe a steal.
But there is some resemblence to Peja in terms of the spot shooting from 3pt land, the great free throw shooting and the rebounds. Sure Peja didn't float in the lane like Kevin but Peja always found a way to get to the line where he was so money. Kevin is obviously more athletic but he isn't really good at creating his own shot yet, at least in the beginning of games. He needs someone to lite the fuse for him before he can explode so to speak. I think as he gets better at setting other people up he will eventually find that go-to move you speak of where he can either use the move or pass depending upon the way his defender fronts him.
The All-Star game is just a popularity contest. True the better player you are and the better team you are on the more popular you are.
There is always a chance, the coaches decision could fall his way since he is running toward MIP, but with all the other competition in the West I'd say it's not likely.
There is always a chance, the coaches decision could fall his way since he is running toward MIP, but with all the other competition in the West I'd say it's not likely.
Actually he didn't -- int eh first half of the game in fact Rip managed to largely deny him. He did not get free until the 3rd quarter, and it wasn't unitl he really started flowing that we actually saw him begin to take Rip (amongst others) -- initially even in the third it was his normal move to an open spot game.
As for the Peja comparisons -- I think there is a certain shallowness to the "but Peja was an outside shooter!" analysis. Well yes. Duh and all that. Not the point. Peja was, and is, a mistake scorer. A secondary player who scores well when properly setup. Who moves without the ball and so gets open threes, layups, whatnot when his teammates create for him. Taht has largely been Kevin's game as well. And Kevin is VERY good at it. Excellent finisher. But it is very MUCH a similar style scoring approach to Peja. If Kevin scores, it is normally after having the ball in his hands for 2-3 seconds max. If a player such as Rip pays close attention to Kevin, as he did inthe first half, Kevin gets quiet because those open opportunities aren't there. Now its very true that Kevin appears to have much more potential to develop the ability to score even against attentive defense -- indeed when he's ona roll he starts atatcking and has several moves good enoguh to get it done. But as it stands today, Kevin has a hell of a lot in common with Peja's approach to scoring, includign the efficiency.
As for Kevin being 23 -- yes. And still improviing. But most players are largely done with large improivements by the time they are 25. Indeed in yesteryear most players wouold enter the league out of college at 22 and largely be done improving. And damn if I haven't had this entire exact same discusssion on here about Peja from yesteryear. Almost every point. The similarity in the phenomenons really is frightening, although if Kevin can stay on the upward curve a little longer the eventual resolution may not be.
As for the Peja comparisons -- I think there is a certain shallowness to the "but Peja was an outside shooter!" analysis. Well yes. Duh and all that. Not the point. Peja was, and is, a mistake scorer. A secondary player who scores well when properly setup. Who moves without the ball and so gets open threes, layups, whatnot when his teammates create for him. Taht has largely been Kevin's game as well. And Kevin is VERY good at it. Excellent finisher. But it is very MUCH a similar style scoring approach to Peja. If Kevin scores, it is normally after having the ball in his hands for 2-3 seconds max. If a player such as Rip pays close attention to Kevin, as he did inthe first half, Kevin gets quiet because those open opportunities aren't there. Now its very true that Kevin appears to have much more potential to develop the ability to score even against attentive defense -- indeed when he's ona roll he starts atatcking and has several moves good enoguh to get it done. But as it stands today, Kevin has a hell of a lot in common with Peja's approach to scoring, includign the efficiency.
As for Kevin being 23 -- yes. And still improviing. But most players are largely done with large improivements by the time they are 25. Indeed in yesteryear most players wouold enter the league out of college at 22 and largely be done improving. And damn if I haven't had this entire exact same discusssion on here about Peja from yesteryear. Almost every point. The similarity in the phenomenons really is frightening, although if Kevin can stay on the upward curve a little longer the eventual resolution may not be.
