Muss Arrested
- Thread starter BigWaxer
- Start date
Or unless, you know, you don't actually drive home that night? Your first sentence here is one of the single-most misinformed statements I've read on this site in a long time, and that's saying something... Sometimes people that plan on drinking make plans to get home that don't involve them actually driving. And sometimes people that drink at a family get-together actually spend the night at said relative's house.
People take taxis. People have designated drivers. And yes, some people actually spend the night and sleep it off... Responsibility might sound a little abnormal to you, and it's obviously an abnormality to the people that drive drunk, but that doesn't mean that it's abnormal to everybody else.
People take taxis. People have designated drivers. And yes, some people actually spend the night and sleep it off... Responsibility might sound a little abnormal to you, and it's obviously an abnormality to the people that drive drunk, but that doesn't mean that it's abnormal to everybody else.
Well at least according to Badjocks.com Muss would not even make it into the top 30 Rankings Blowing a .11
Accourding to Official Blood Alcohol Content (BAC)Rankings
The lowest ranked athlete related BAC was .22
Was dissapointed to see my Hero Jim McMahon had a .261 During the drunk driving sobriety test, reportedly told officers, 'I'm too drunk. You got me.'"
Aslo notable was Jeff Garcia with a .237 Drunk driving arrest occurred when he was leaving the campus of San Jose State University and forced to give field sobriety test in a Jack-in-the-Box parking lot
http://www.badjocks.com/bacleaders.htm
Didnt see any NBA coaches (One NFL Coach, One Football Coll Coach, one Basketball Coll coach) but keep in mind these are the top 30 or so.
Not to minimize what Muss did, but feel this thread needs a little distraction
Also separately found Raiders coach Jon Gruden blew a .10
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998/10/22/SP89175.DTL
Accourding to Official Blood Alcohol Content (BAC)Rankings
The lowest ranked athlete related BAC was .22
Was dissapointed to see my Hero Jim McMahon had a .261 During the drunk driving sobriety test, reportedly told officers, 'I'm too drunk. You got me.'"
Aslo notable was Jeff Garcia with a .237 Drunk driving arrest occurred when he was leaving the campus of San Jose State University and forced to give field sobriety test in a Jack-in-the-Box parking lot
http://www.badjocks.com/bacleaders.htm
Didnt see any NBA coaches (One NFL Coach, One Football Coll Coach, one Basketball Coll coach) but keep in mind these are the top 30 or so.
Not to minimize what Muss did, but feel this thread needs a little distraction
Also separately found Raiders coach Jon Gruden blew a .10
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998/10/22/SP89175.DTL
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I don't know if I'd call it bad timing but it's certainly bad something.
There's an old proverb or saying that goes:
"Man plans; God laughs."
If you're not religious, feel free to substitute the following:
"Man plans; the fates laugh."
It was not what the Kings, the Maloofs, the fans or Eric Musselman would have wanted at any time. But, at this point, I don't think the arena talks are going to be negatively impacted any more than they already are.
There's an old proverb or saying that goes:
"Man plans; God laughs."
If you're not religious, feel free to substitute the following:
"Man plans; the fates laugh."
It was not what the Kings, the Maloofs, the fans or Eric Musselman would have wanted at any time. But, at this point, I don't think the arena talks are going to be negatively impacted any more than they already are.
That's a ridiculous statement. His mistake has nothing to do with *keeping ron under control*. He's been a very good coach from what I have heard and seen.
He's a person, just like anyone else. Most of us here have had a couple of drinks then drove home. If you have NEVER, EVER, in your WHOOOOLE life done that, realize that you are in the extreme minority.
He's afforded the right to go out and have a few social drinks. Remember it's not a mistake if you don't get caught. He did, so it's a mistake. If he hadn't been caught none of us would have been the wiser.
He's a person, just like anyone else. Most of us here have had a couple of drinks then drove home. If you have NEVER, EVER, in your WHOOOOLE life done that, realize that you are in the extreme minority.
He's afforded the right to go out and have a few social drinks. Remember it's not a mistake if you don't get caught. He did, so it's a mistake. If he hadn't been caught none of us would have been the wiser.
As bad as this is, I don't think we need to jump right off assumption cliff into conclusion gorge...
Muss made a mistake. He's going to pay for it. If anything, I think Ron Artest will understand that more than a lot of people might. And this whole thing about keeping Ron under control? I personally think it's about time to let go of that particular stick.
Ron Artest has done NOTHING since his arrival in Sacramento to deserve it. In fact, he's been the ultimate professional ... and as much as I feared his coming, I'm awfully glad he's here.
Muss made a mistake. He's going to pay for it. If anything, I think Ron Artest will understand that more than a lot of people might. And this whole thing about keeping Ron under control? I personally think it's about time to let go of that particular stick.
Ron Artest has done NOTHING since his arrival in Sacramento to deserve it. In fact, he's been the ultimate professional ... and as much as I feared his coming, I'm awfully glad he's here.
It's called negligence joejoe, whether it's criminal or not is subjective.
There are far worse actions that would elicit far worse responses. It's a terrible mistake for a public figure.
It's also puts your position of absolute authority in question. It's hard to tell players to do this or that before a game when they know you make mistakes that hit tabloids.
There are far worse actions that would elicit far worse responses. It's a terrible mistake for a public figure.
It's also puts your position of absolute authority in question. It's hard to tell players to do this or that before a game when they know you make mistakes that hit tabloids.
Technically yes. I agree. By the letter of the law. But, I'm telling you I have a friend that is an officer. I have blown .1 with him there, and he could not tell ANY physical signs of me being intoxicated. And, I drove home. *It was at a party, he wasn't on duty*.
Everyone handles their liquor differently. So, while my PC answer would be yes it's still a mistake. My practical application answer would tell you that Literally thousands of people in this county of ALL ages are doing it on a weekly basis. Even if it's just one night a week.
In the words of Geroge Carlin, "Cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!!!".
Everyone handles their liquor differently. So, while my PC answer would be yes it's still a mistake. My practical application answer would tell you that Literally thousands of people in this county of ALL ages are doing it on a weekly basis. Even if it's just one night a week.
In the words of Geroge Carlin, "Cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!!!".
My 2 cents...for what it's worth...
Koren Robinson was just suspended for the season by the Packers after a DUI arrest. He does, however have at least one prior substance abuse offense.
DUI is a serious issue as stated earlier numerous times. .08% B.A.C. for the average person is 2 ounces of hard liquor in an hour. You may substitute a 12oz beer or 6 oz glass of wine for each ounce of liquor. The "average: person also metabolizes alcohol at a rate of .02% B.A.C. per hour.
DUI does NOT MEAN DRUNK driving. It mean UNDER THE INFLUENCE driving. Not BLACKOUT DRUNK, or BLOTTO, or any similar description. It is very subtle. My own policy is if I drink more than one, I don't drive.
I seriously doubt Musselman was anything less than a pefect gentleman with the CHP officer who arrested him. Regardless, in this day and age, a cop would be fired if the press got hold of a story that he let a DUI go. (Do you really think they wouldn't hear about it?) There is no slack for DUI, no matter who you are. Even cops get arrested by other cops for DUI, and I know of some who were fired for it.
The pressing issue for me is, "What's best for Mr. Musselman?"
Does he really have a problem? Does he need to check into rehab? Is it really just a one time stupid mistake? Imagine what he's wondering....Will the Maloof's fire him? Suspend him? Is his coaching career over? Will his ex wife try to use the arrest to her advantage regarding support or child visitation?
You can be mad as hell at your friends over a DUI arrest. Primarily because they didn't call you out of bed for a ride home! If he's my friend, I'm going out of my way to be available for him, for anything! My guess is that Muss is more embarrassed than most of us can imagine. He's probably already contacted every player to apologize for embarrasing the team.
Assuming Muss has no priors and is convicted, he will be fined, placed on 3 years probation, to include a mandatory treatment program, and at least 16 hours of community service. Whether or not he is convicted, he (pending a hearing, if he chooses to have one) will have his license to drive suspended for four months.
I fully expect the KINGS will suspend Muss for a game, as they would anyone else. I also expect them to put on a big "Anti-DUI" program with Muss saying all the right things. He'll apologize, handle the criminal charges and move on. The suspension will be the worst punishment for Muss!
I also expect the players to rally around Muss and support him through this. I also expect Ron Artest to be his biggest supporter. This kind of adversity could actually help bring the team closer. There's the games, the season, and then there's the real world and people's lives. Just for a moment, let's show concern for Eric Musselman, not for the coach of the Kings.
Koren Robinson was just suspended for the season by the Packers after a DUI arrest. He does, however have at least one prior substance abuse offense.
DUI is a serious issue as stated earlier numerous times. .08% B.A.C. for the average person is 2 ounces of hard liquor in an hour. You may substitute a 12oz beer or 6 oz glass of wine for each ounce of liquor. The "average: person also metabolizes alcohol at a rate of .02% B.A.C. per hour.
DUI does NOT MEAN DRUNK driving. It mean UNDER THE INFLUENCE driving. Not BLACKOUT DRUNK, or BLOTTO, or any similar description. It is very subtle. My own policy is if I drink more than one, I don't drive.
I seriously doubt Musselman was anything less than a pefect gentleman with the CHP officer who arrested him. Regardless, in this day and age, a cop would be fired if the press got hold of a story that he let a DUI go. (Do you really think they wouldn't hear about it?) There is no slack for DUI, no matter who you are. Even cops get arrested by other cops for DUI, and I know of some who were fired for it.
The pressing issue for me is, "What's best for Mr. Musselman?"
Does he really have a problem? Does he need to check into rehab? Is it really just a one time stupid mistake? Imagine what he's wondering....Will the Maloof's fire him? Suspend him? Is his coaching career over? Will his ex wife try to use the arrest to her advantage regarding support or child visitation?
You can be mad as hell at your friends over a DUI arrest. Primarily because they didn't call you out of bed for a ride home! If he's my friend, I'm going out of my way to be available for him, for anything! My guess is that Muss is more embarrassed than most of us can imagine. He's probably already contacted every player to apologize for embarrasing the team.
Assuming Muss has no priors and is convicted, he will be fined, placed on 3 years probation, to include a mandatory treatment program, and at least 16 hours of community service. Whether or not he is convicted, he (pending a hearing, if he chooses to have one) will have his license to drive suspended for four months.
I fully expect the KINGS will suspend Muss for a game, as they would anyone else. I also expect them to put on a big "Anti-DUI" program with Muss saying all the right things. He'll apologize, handle the criminal charges and move on. The suspension will be the worst punishment for Muss!
I also expect the players to rally around Muss and support him through this. I also expect Ron Artest to be his biggest supporter. This kind of adversity could actually help bring the team closer. There's the games, the season, and then there's the real world and people's lives. Just for a moment, let's show concern for Eric Musselman, not for the coach of the Kings.
Yes, you do come across as a huge *******.
You don't have to care about human life or hold it sacrosanct to understand that this would be a huge issue. I don't sit around on my toilet and ponder the hundreds of thousands of lives lost to starvation or whatever ... but one does have to see the civilization-type issues that would be at stake if we could just randomly run people over.
Even if you don't care about the loss of human life, you're on this board and you care about the Kings. It would be humiliating to the organization if that were to have happened.
You don't have to care about human life or hold it sacrosanct to understand that this would be a huge issue. I don't sit around on my toilet and ponder the hundreds of thousands of lives lost to starvation or whatever ... but one does have to see the civilization-type issues that would be at stake if we could just randomly run people over.
Even if you don't care about the loss of human life, you're on this board and you care about the Kings. It would be humiliating to the organization if that were to have happened.
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Sorry, Doc, but if you want to believe that as long as you don't get caught, it's not a crime, that's on you. Do you feel the same about stealing?
And if you have a cop friend who knowingly allows you or anyone else to get behind a wheel and operate a car with a blood alochol level of .1, then I'm awfully glad I don't live where you drive. And I hope he'll be able to face himself in the mirror if one of you eventually either gets into an accident or gets arrested...or worse, takes out an innocent family, all because you have a cop friend who KNEW you were legally impaired but couldn't detect any physical signs of you being intoxicated (whatever that means) and allowed you to walk out the door and drive blithely home.
George Carlin isn't a philosopher. He's a comedian. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Drunk driving KILLS. And each of those deaths is totally preventable if people would just quit thinking they're too cool to admit their abilities are impaired. This isn't some macho thing. It's about life and death.
And if you have a cop friend who knowingly allows you or anyone else to get behind a wheel and operate a car with a blood alochol level of .1, then I'm awfully glad I don't live where you drive. And I hope he'll be able to face himself in the mirror if one of you eventually either gets into an accident or gets arrested...or worse, takes out an innocent family, all because you have a cop friend who KNEW you were legally impaired but couldn't detect any physical signs of you being intoxicated (whatever that means) and allowed you to walk out the door and drive blithely home.
George Carlin isn't a philosopher. He's a comedian. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Drunk driving KILLS. And each of those deaths is totally preventable if people would just quit thinking they're too cool to admit their abilities are impaired. This isn't some macho thing. It's about life and death.
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It's not my job to translate you. You're the one who said that "everyone here who has ever enjoyed a glass of wine or two at a nice dinner out, or a get together at a relative's house has driven drunk." Those were your exact words; if that's not what you meant, then you should have actually said what you meant. If you want to cop an attitude because I actually had the nerve to take your words at face value, be my guest, but don't delude yourself into thinking that it somehow validates a statement that was factually inaccurate to begin with.
And kindly stop confusing responsibility with self-righteousness. It doesn't take a boatload of self control or a pious lifestyle to not drink and drive. All it takes is enough common sense to fill a thimble, so quit trying to act like the people that have self control here are being "holier than thou."
And kindly stop confusing responsibility with self-righteousness. It doesn't take a boatload of self control or a pious lifestyle to not drink and drive. All it takes is enough common sense to fill a thimble, so quit trying to act like the people that have self control here are being "holier than thou."
Keep in mind that one is still impaired while in the tank. And yes, most jail suicides are first offense DUI's.
By saying the suspension will be the worst punishment for Muss, I mean that being forbidden to be at a game with his team will be the biggest embarassment, and be the most tortuous. Many people cope with life's problems by diving into their work. When work is taken away, even temporarily, it causes incredible stress, especially in workaholic types like Muss!
By saying the suspension will be the worst punishment for Muss, I mean that being forbidden to be at a game with his team will be the biggest embarassment, and be the most tortuous. Many people cope with life's problems by diving into their work. When work is taken away, even temporarily, it causes incredible stress, especially in workaholic types like Muss!
I hope this doesn't cause an attack. I'm sincerely unsure of the answers. But....
Out of curiosity, when they found .8 to be the unacceptable level of intoxication for driving was this the number that proved one could not drive at 100% or let's call it an A level? For example on a training course would drivers flunk at this level? Or would they simply show signs of being impaired? That is to say does .8 mean your vulnerable to poor driving, or incapable of operating it perfectly. For instance which would be worse making several cell calls or driving at .8?
I'm curious also if the numbers over 1.0 are severely more dangerous? That is do more accidents occur with drunk drivers falling in a certain range. Or more precisely what is the average Level for drunk drivers who cause fatalities?
Frankly, I ask out of fear since I've driven with two drinks and as a thin guy potentially might have flirted with the legal number (though predominantly responsible) in the last 24 years (22-46) As far as 16-22 I can only claim luck. Pure luck. I'm thankful I didn't harm anyone. I'm glad Muss didn't either. Perhaps his blunder will serve a good purpose in reminding his peers to take advantage of the wealth and hire drivers. It worked on me, and I will re-alert myself to showing more caution.
IMO his "outing" will be punishment enough and he doesn't seem like the type of guy who won't be humbled by his mistake. It will be a good mistake for him and he will benefit.
Out of curiosity, when they found .8 to be the unacceptable level of intoxication for driving was this the number that proved one could not drive at 100% or let's call it an A level? For example on a training course would drivers flunk at this level? Or would they simply show signs of being impaired? That is to say does .8 mean your vulnerable to poor driving, or incapable of operating it perfectly. For instance which would be worse making several cell calls or driving at .8?
I'm curious also if the numbers over 1.0 are severely more dangerous? That is do more accidents occur with drunk drivers falling in a certain range. Or more precisely what is the average Level for drunk drivers who cause fatalities?
Frankly, I ask out of fear since I've driven with two drinks and as a thin guy potentially might have flirted with the legal number (though predominantly responsible) in the last 24 years (22-46) As far as 16-22 I can only claim luck. Pure luck. I'm thankful I didn't harm anyone. I'm glad Muss didn't either. Perhaps his blunder will serve a good purpose in reminding his peers to take advantage of the wealth and hire drivers. It worked on me, and I will re-alert myself to showing more caution.
IMO his "outing" will be punishment enough and he doesn't seem like the type of guy who won't be humbled by his mistake. It will be a good mistake for him and he will benefit.
This was a bad move plain and simple. Will it affect the team or himself? Depends on how he handles it. He can pull th Hugh Grant move, come out in public, admit it, admit what he did was stupid, apologize, be regretful, and move on. Drunk driving is a thing most people have done once in their life, and they can sympathize with a guy that just admitted he was dumb and just wasn't thinking. Luckily there was no harm, key word luckily. Most people will be able to look past it. However, if he kind of shrugs it off, and shrinks into a shell it could look very bad on him. Come out, admit it was wrong and stupid and leave it at that. He will gain alot of respect back for it.
Everyone makes mistakes, live long enough and you'll make some big ones.
But it isn't the mistake it's how you make it right that shows what you're made of.
If I were Muss the first thing I would do is offer to resign. Coaching the Kings (like driving) is a privilege, not a right. At this point in the season I doubt the Maloofs would want that, but it shows that he knows he screwed up.
I think we're also going to be seeing Muss on some anti-drunk driving PSAs soon enough.
Muss can come back from this but he's going to need to put the effort in.
Who knows he might end up influencing some drinkers not to get in their cars and save some lives.
But it isn't the mistake it's how you make it right that shows what you're made of.
If I were Muss the first thing I would do is offer to resign. Coaching the Kings (like driving) is a privilege, not a right. At this point in the season I doubt the Maloofs would want that, but it shows that he knows he screwed up.
I think we're also going to be seeing Muss on some anti-drunk driving PSAs soon enough.
Muss can come back from this but he's going to need to put the effort in.
Who knows he might end up influencing some drinkers not to get in their cars and save some lives.
Just a little reminder:
We've had over 200 posts in here. It's a good discussion IMHO and I'm really glad to see people posting cogent comments.
What we don't need and aren't going to have are the one-line throwaway insults. If you're thinking about posting one, don't bother. It won't stay.
Thanks to everyone. This is a topic that should be discussed not only here but with friends and family. It's the perfect opportunity. And it just might prevent someone from making the same mistake.
/VF21 personal message
We've had over 200 posts in here. It's a good discussion IMHO and I'm really glad to see people posting cogent comments.
What we don't need and aren't going to have are the one-line throwaway insults. If you're thinking about posting one, don't bother. It won't stay.
Thanks to everyone. This is a topic that should be discussed not only here but with friends and family. It's the perfect opportunity. And it just might prevent someone from making the same mistake.
/VF21 personal message
It is kinda surprising that this would surface for the first time at age 41 if it were part of any kind of pattern.
One thing that I really am not sure about, is how do you feel at .08? I know, anytime you feel anything from the alcohol it is not a good idea to drive. But could a certain amount of drinking put you over the legal limit, and you still not "feel it"?
I'm a lightweight and one drink on an empty stomach causes a noticable difference... might I be over the limit at that point? (note: I am not driving at that point)
It's always best to err on the side of caution, especially for a public figure like Muss. But assuming he was actually at .08, and not higher, maybe at the time he didn't consider himself impaired at all, and maybe it came as a surprise to him that he failed the test.
Of course some of the details may make that seem unlikely... I'll have to reserve judgement. But let's have no more talk of firing... that would be truly knee-jerk.
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One thing that I really am not sure about, is how do you feel at .08? I know, anytime you feel anything from the alcohol it is not a good idea to drive. But could a certain amount of drinking put you over the legal limit, and you still not "feel it"?
I'm a lightweight and one drink on an empty stomach causes a noticable difference... might I be over the limit at that point? (note: I am not driving at that point)
It's always best to err on the side of caution, especially for a public figure like Muss. But assuming he was actually at .08, and not higher, maybe at the time he didn't consider himself impaired at all, and maybe it came as a surprise to him that he failed the test.
Of course some of the details may make that seem unlikely... I'll have to reserve judgement. But let's have no more talk of firing... that would be truly knee-jerk.
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