Martin Rated 20th Best Shooting Guard

#1
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/9686698


Wow! I did not realize he was so highly regarded.

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By Tony Mejia
CBS SportsLine.com Staff Writer

During his summer stint as a member of the U.S. national team, Dwyane Wade found himself subjected to plenty of good-natured teasing. He'd hear taunts about his rising popularity, his recent championship and even his Gatorade commercial.

You've seen it. The one with the big heads on children's bodies.

"I'm gonna be K.G."

"I'm D-Wade."

A lot of kids want to be D-Wade these days. The Miami guard has become a very big fish, and the other fish don't let him forget about it. It has nothing to do with keeping him humble -- Wade has a firm grip on that -- but rather a sign of admiration and respect. It's what the old guard used to do to Michael Jordan. LeBron James might be the "King," but D-Wade is the "Ring." This is his moment.

There also was a time when Kobe Bryant could do no wrong. He owns as many championship rings as Wade has played seasons, but has endured a lifetime's worth of drama since he claimed his last one.

Those are the resumes of the two contenders for the final No. 1 spot in these positional rankings we've been bringing you all month. Kobe and D-Wade, forever linked in history as Shaquille O'Neal tag-team partners, can now also be the subject of a great water cooler debate. They're the best shooting guards to come along since Jordan, but forced to choose, who's better?

Right now, despite Wade's summer surge, it's still Bryant.

Hope these message boards are ready to be bombarded.

While Wade's dynamic style captured a title, he's still not as complete as Bryant, whose Lakers barely managed to make the playoffs. Although Wade's jumper is getting deadlier by the day, he still lacks consistency. Once he gets the perimeter stroke down, there really will be no way to guard him.

Bryant is already there, as he should be, given his tenure in the league. It's hard to believe, but Bryant will start his 11th season when things tip off in late October. The ride has been a wild one, drawing him as many detractors as fans, but no one can deny he's gifted.

If you want someone to take the final shot of a game, nine times out of 10, Bryant will be your choice. Wade has notched his share of vital game winners throughout his short career, relying on imperial one-on-one skills to get to where he wants to go, but he's not the master yet. Bryant has put in his dues, and although Wade is clearly on the fast track, the veteran still holds a slight edge.

Debate this all year if you must. It's definitely worthy, and probably the reason the league schedule-makers are banking on another Heat-Lakers matchup to draw in the Christmas Day crowd. The O'Neal-Bryant feud is done, but that doesn't mean Kobe and Wade can't be rivals.

1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers: He'll sport jersey No. 24 this season, a move he says signals the start of the second half of his career. Act II is undoubtedly his own now. He's a grown man, and the Lakers are his to build back up. The franchise's fate is in his control, and Lakers fans are right to be optimistic. Last season will be remembered for the 81-point night against Toronto, but the greatest development came during the playoffs, when Bryant bought into the team concept and proved his greatness by making the game easier for his mates. That shows you that he and Phil Jackson may finally be on the same page.

2. Dwyane Wade, Miami: It's scary to think that he still has significant upside, isn't it? It feels like Wade has taken over the world over the past 18 months or so, and the hype machine surrounding him is really only getting started. Signed through 2009, he'll have a great shot to pad that ring total with Shaq in tow and championship experience already in his back pocket.

3. Ray Allen, Seattle: Lost in the disappointment of last year's Sonics season was how good Allen was. It came down to the final game, but he broke the record for 3-point makes, knocking down 269 at a 41-percent clip. Allen also averaged a career-best 25.1 points per game, keeping Seattle from being worse than it already was. He is the Clyde Drexler of his day, seemingly always in a contemporary's shadow despite being consistently great himself.

4. Richard Hamilton, Detroit: I'll buy into the theory that if he was on another squad where he had to shoulder more responsibility, Rip's rep would be larger than it is. Of course, he wouldn't have a ring to show for it, and that's really what matters. Hamilton is brilliant moving without the ball and coming off screens, and he's a standout defender.

5. Vince Carter, New Jersey: There's no doubt he's back. He stayed healthy in his first full season with the Nets and played with great energy throughout, averaging 24.2 points and 4.3 assists and tying his career best with 5.8 rebounds per game. He's still among the best in the league at taking over a game.

6. Michael Redd, Milwaukee: Redd gave Detroit fits in the playoffs, shooting 52 percent and averaging more than 27 per game. That legitimized him as a star. Had the Ohio native opted to return home to play for Cleveland, the Cavs might be a championship front-runner this season. Instead, he's being paid handsomely to take the Bucks to new heights. So far, he's off to a good start.

7. Joe Johnson, Atlanta: Given the division his acquisition caused in the Hawks front office, he couldn't afford to be a bust. Fortunately, he wasn't. Johnson needed time to adjust, but by season's end he was at ease with the go-to role and regularly putting up big nights. His versatility is his greatest asset, and his best days are ahead of him. Regardless of how good Boris Diaw has turned out to be for Phoenix, you can't argue with picking up Johnson now. He's worth every penny.

8. Manu Ginobili, San Antonio: Momentum from a magical year in which he won Olympic gold and an NBA title was tempered by injuries last season. He played at the FIBA World Championships this summer, so it's not like he took the entire offseason to rest, but all reports indicate he's healthier than he's been in some time. Ginobili's game is unique and dynamic, flopping aside.

9. Jason Richardson, Golden State: He hasn't gotten an All-Star sniff despite being a dominant scorer the last three seasons, averaging a career-best 23.2 last year. He hasn't been able to carry the Warriors to the playoffs and still struggles with his shot selection, no doubt in part to the unending frustration he has seen in the Bay Area.

10. Larry Hughes, Cleveland: Injuries derailed his start in Cleveland and have been a perennial obstacle of late. The experiment with LeBron hasn't really gotten off the ground yet, but it does sound promising, given the opportunity to get on the same page. Hughes is one of the NBA's top thieves and has the right attitude to be the perfect second option.

11. Gerald Wallace, Charlotte: In case you failed to notice, Wallace was among the league's breakout performers last year. He showed off an improved offensive game and was his usual self on the defensive end, making a difference with his athleticism and penchant for steals. With Adam Morrison on board, Wallace will switch from small forward to shooting guard but will still draw the tougher assignments on the wing.

12. Shane Battier, Houston: Jeff Van Gundy is going to let Battier run wild against opposing offensive threats, and that's going to make him one of the most valuable offseason acquisitions in the league. Battier bonded with Bruce Bowen at U.S. national team tryouts and seems poised to pick up the stopper torch. Battier isn't too shabby on the other end of the floor either.

13. Ben Gordon, Chicago: He's streaky and undersized, but can he destroy you when he gets it going. Having a defined role and increased experience should help him get off to a better start than he did while undergoing a sophomore slump, which lasted until he broke out around March.

14. Raja Bell, Phoenix: Kobe's best friend is carving out quite the niche for himself in the Valley of the Sun, transforming himself from productive sub to a valuable cog on a title contender. He has seized his opportunity by coming through in the clutch repeatedly.

15. Wally Szczerbiak, Boston: He seemed to fit in well after coming over from Minnesota, not that it translated into team success. He and Paul Pierce could form a productive wing combo, defensive proficiency notwithstanding. But Szczerbiak has to continue the positive momentum enjoyed last season following a few down years.

16. Cuttino Mobley, L.A. Clippers: Although he scored a bunch of points with Sacramento, he never really felt at home after being separated from buddy Steve Francis and Orlando in one of the worst moves made this decade (for Doug Christie). He looked like his old self with the L.A. Clippers last year, despite his scoring dipping to its lowest point since 1999. Mobley just made a difference, and does so wherever he plays.

17. Bonzi Wells, unaffiliated: That's a neat word -- unaffiliated. In this case, it doesn't mean no one wants him, but it does mean there's a lot of negotiating to be done. Wherever he goes, let's hope Wells can avoid off-court trouble and become a productive asset worthy of the contract he feels he deserves next season.

18. Jerry Stackhouse, Dallas: He's my early favorite for the Sixth Man Award, provided he keeps coming off the bench. Stack looked rejuvenated in the playoffs, taking big shots and relishing key minutes. If the Mavs make it back to the Finals, he'll be a big reason why.

19. Andre Iguodala, Philadelphia: He has a world of ability, but it hasn't appeared in more than flashes through his first two seasons. He has been a serviceable wing, but should be dominating games with his athleticism, particularly defensively. He needs to step it up.

20. Kevin Martin, Sacramento: Martin will be in the running for Most Improved Player, because he's about to blow up for the Kings. Freed from the shadow of Peja Stojakovic, he has an opportunity to become a huge scoring threat. Someone's come a long way from Zanesville, Ohio, and Western Carolina.

Also considered: Stephen Jackson, Indiana; Desmond Mason, New Orleans/Oklahoma City; Morris Peterson, Toronto; Eddie Jones, Memphis; DeShawn Stevenson, Washington; Brandon Roy, Portland; Michael Finley, San Antonio; Fred Jones, Toronto; Flip Murray, Detroit; J.R. Smith, Denver.
 
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SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#4
Nice to see Kevin getting some recognition. Here's to Kevin being in top 10 next year!

And why the hell is Battier on that list?
 
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#5
How was a shooting guard supposedly freed from the shadow of Peja, a small forward? I believe he was freed from the shadow of #17 on the list.
 
#6
How was a shooting guard supposedly freed from the shadow of Peja, a small forward? I believe he was freed from the shadow of #17 on the list.
Agreed, but i dont think Martin was ever in Bonzi's shadow as Martin made quite a significant improvement last season. Martin made a name for himself last season. I really hope Martin does explode for us.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#7
I think the jist was that Peja would take a lot of shots which would indeed hinder Martins game. I am surprised it wasn't discussed more, but I did notice that Peja had a negative impact on Kevins game. When Peja was out was when Kevin looked way more comfortable on the court.
 
#8
I think the jist was that Peja would take a lot of shots which would indeed hinder Martins game. I am surprised it wasn't discussed more, but I did notice that Peja had a negative impact on Kevins game. When Peja was out was when Kevin looked way more comfortable on the court.
I don't have the luxury of seeing that on the court as much fans in sac do or anywhere else for that matter.:(
 
#9
I think the jist was that Peja would take a lot of shots which would indeed hinder Martins game. I am surprised it wasn't discussed more, but I did notice that Peja had a negative impact on Kevins game. When Peja was out was when Kevin looked way more comfortable on the court.
He looked more comfortable when Bonzi was out, too. ;)
 
#12
There are a few SFs in there who belong on the SF list, not this one(like Battier, Gerald Wallace, Szczerbiak). Also I'd take Kevin over Stackhouse, Iguodala, and Mobley.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#15
I like Meija as a rule, but that list is kinda wacky. And its not really Kevin either -- that's maybe a stretch at this point for a preseason ranking (and I think Stephen Jackson and Eddie Jones might have more than a quibble), but Meija sounds like a true believer, and if he's right, then Kevin could well deserve Top 20 status by year's end. But some of the other rankings are just...odd. Rip is better than Vince? Then you have at #14...Raja Bell? Stackhouse is a declining sub now. Cat has his worst year in forever, and is still there. Just..odd.
 
#16
on nba.com kevin's ranking is even higher...he's ranked number 18 on the best shooting guard list behind bonzi wells. he's definetly getting the recognition and people are starting to really like this kid.
 
#17
I like Meija as a rule, but that list is kinda wacky. And its not really Kevin either -- that's maybe a stretch at this point for a preseason ranking (and I think Stephen Jackson and Eddie Jones might have more than a quibble), but Meija sounds like a true believer, and if he's right, then Kevin could well deserve Top 20 status by year's end. But some of the other rankings are just...odd. Rip is better than Vince? Then you have at #14...Raja Bell? Stackhouse is a declining sub now. Cat has his worst year in forever, and is still there. Just..odd.

I think he's just trying to be controversial and create discussion with Rip over Vince and Ginobili over J Rich. The Mobley rating could just be that he's thinking about the Mobley that was good, not the Mobley that signed a fat contract and then scored something like 14 PPG.
 
#18
on nba.com kevin's ranking is even higher...he's ranked number 18 on the best shooting guard list behind bonzi wells. he's definetly getting the recognition and people are starting to really like this kid.
he's ranked 18 at th etwo guard spot but for fantasy basketball, and the info says something like hes 18 IF he gets most of the minutes at the 2, and doesnt have to battle much with salmons for minutes

(i'm not a kmart hater, i have his jersey...im just pointing out the facts)
 
#19
I think he's just trying to be controversial and create discussion with Rip over Vince and Ginobili over J Rich. The Mobley rating could just be that he's thinking about the Mobley that was good, not the Mobley that signed a fat contract and then scored something like 14 PPG.

He also got less minutes with ross and maggette, and im pretty sure they even played cassel and livingston together, with either ross or maggette at times...so thats probably why his producstion took a slight hit.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#23
Just for kicks, taking those same names (which I think his method is always jsut rating guys where they are expected to play in the upcoming year -- + note that Bonzi signing changes Battier), I would have been more satisfied with something like this:

1) Kobe
2) Wade
3) Vince
4) Allen
5) Redd
6) Richardson
7) Manu
8) Rip
9) Johnson
10) Hughes
11) Wallace
12) Bonzi
13) Wally
14) Gordon
15) Mobley
16) Battier
17) Igoudala
18) Jackson
19) Stackhouse
20) Peterson

Others considered: Eddie Jones, Raja Bell, Desmond Mason, Kevin Martin, Brandon Roy
 
#24
Just for kicks, taking those same names (which I think his method is always jsut rating guys where they are expected to play in the upcoming year -- + note that Bonzi signing changes Battier), I would have been more satisfied with something like this:

1) Kobe
2) Wade
3) Vince
4) Allen
5) Redd
6) Richardson
7) Manu
8) Rip
9) Johnson
10) Hughes
11) Wallace
12) Bonzi
13) Wally
14) Gordon
15) Mobley
16) Battier
17) Igoudala
18) Jackson
19) Stackhouse
20) Peterson

Others considered: Eddie Jones, Raja Bell, Desmond Mason, Kevin Martin, Brandon Roy
I'd take Martin over Iguodala and Stackhouse, also shouldn't Battier and Wallace be on a SF list somewhere?
 
#25
12. Shane Battier, Houston: Jeff Van Gundy is going to let Battier run wild against opposing offensive threats, and that's going to make him one of the most valuable offseason acquisitions in the league. Battier bonded with Bruce Bowen at U.S. national team tryouts and seems poised to pick up the stopper torch. Battier isn't too shabby on the other end of the floor either.

Thanks, I needed a laugh. If Battier is a SG, than I'm Shaq.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#26
I'd take Martin over Iguodala and Stackhouse, also shouldn't Battier and Wallace be on a SF list somewhere?
A) not over Iggy, not yet. But of course Iggy has quite a bit to prove this season too.

B) Meija's methodology is always to rate guys by where they are going to play this year, rather than "actual" positions. Hence Morrison's arrival makes Gerald an OG, and I guess he was assuming pre-Bonzi that TMac was the SF and Battier the OG (which he can play). Although actually I think that was going to be reversed, and of course has all changed post Bonzi-signing.
 
#27
A) not over Iggy, not yet. But of course Iggy has quite a bit to prove this season too.

B) Meija's methodology is always to rate guys by where they are going to play this year, rather than "actual" positions. Hence Morrison's arrival makes Gerald an OG, and I guess he was assuming pre-Bonzi that TMac was the SF and Battier the OG (which he can play). Although actually I think that was going to be reversed, and of course has all changed post Bonzi-signing.
Oh.

I'd take him over Iggy because Iguodala was drafted higher but Kevin scored nearly as much in 10 less minutes per game and Iguodala got to consistently start. I guess I just don't think as much of Iggy as other people do.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#28
not sure what they are going by but Martin will easily put up more ppg than Mobley, Hughes, Peterson, Stackhouse, Battier, and Iggy, and getting about the same amount as Bonzi, Gordon, Manu, Rip, and Wally and could beat Joe Johnson if Joe wasn't the only proven scorer on the that team.
 
#29
Stein was kind enough to rank us 21 out 30 teams on ESPN. The Lakers (brace yourselves) are 12 and the Warriors are right behind them at 13 (this is where i couldnt stop laughing). The Hornets are in the top 10 while Chicago is 6. Chicago i can understand (they still have to play a game though so im not conbinced) but the rest is a mystery to me...
 
#30
he's ranked 18 at th etwo guard spot but for fantasy basketball, and the info says something like hes 18 IF he gets most of the minutes at the 2, and doesnt have to battle much with salmons for minutes

(i'm not a kmart hater, i have his jersey...im just pointing out the facts)


If Kevin Martin has to battle with John Salmons for minutes then he is nowhere near the top 20 SGs.


He shouldn't have anything to worry about though.