One Good thing out of the Signing of Salmons...

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#61
#61
VF21 said:
Be careful?

Sorry, Bricklayer. I don't agree with your extreme negativity about John Salmons. I don't think he's the great acquisition in the history of the Kings but I think he deserves a chance and I think he might prove to be productive. I don't think people who are trying to see the bright side are necessarily "Salmons jockers" and I don't think you can just disregard the fact that, for whatever reason, both Petrie and our new coach see something in him worth pursuing.
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Be careful about trying the potshot approach regarding Kevin. I certianly am not going to roll over for it.

As for Salmons, if your argument is that you haven't seen him but somebody told you he was good (notably the person with a vested interest in him working out) and my argument is I've seen him and he's not that good, I'll take mine thanks.

Salmons is a versatile minor little player who would do fine as a 10th man to fill in where needed, at about $2mil a year.
 
loopymitch

loopymitch

All-Star
#62
#62
I was in philly when AI was out and Salmons did pretty well. OK he's not KG we know that but we need a back-up PG and I can think of worse choices. Come on Hart??? I think he's going to be fine here. There's a lot of players that were stifled playing with AI and then did fine elsewhere.
Don't get out the guns,sticks, bats whatever yet. Give him a chance, you just might be pleasantly surprised.
 
V

Vitamin K

Prospect
#63
#63
Bricklayer said:
Nope, never looked at a single other contract in the NBA. Do they actually have them?


You are welcome to your opinion about Muss, based no doubt upon the incredible success he has had in the league to date.


What you seem to lack is any feel fro scope or consequences. When you sign a John Salmons to a $5mil ayear deal for forever, thta has costs. You pin yourself financially by dumpig large sums of money into marginally productive players that could be replaced far more cheaply. You don't just get a high-priced Salmons, you can't afford soembody with more talent.

A year from now, after John has averaged his normal 5pts 2reb 2ast for his $5mil, this place will be all abuzz about how can we get free of this contract.
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Brick,

What does Salmons have to do in your mind(what's left it, I think the heat is getting to you) to earn his contract. He will get minutes here as a back-up point, two-guard, and small forward. I think Muss will use him over Hart and Douby and a rotation of Bibby, Martin, Artest, Garcia, and Salmons won't be bad, I won't be susprised if he averages close to 10 points a game and close to 5 assists, while playing good defense and providing Bibby a chance to rest. Just my two cents, but at least I giving him a chance.
 
HndsmCelt

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#66
#66
Even if Salmons DOES up his numbers to justify HIS salery if the rebounding defency we are now in is not adressed we are only rearaging deck chairs on the Titanic.
 
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V

Vitamin K

Prospect
#67
#67
HndsmCelt said:
Even id Salmons DOES up his numbers to justify HIS salery if the rebounding defency we are now in is not adressed we are only reaaraging deck chairs on the Titanic.
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That is true. I hope Petrie does address the rebounding and defense, but from his moves of the past is does not look promising.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#68
#68
Vitamin K said:
I'd be happy with that!!!
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Yes indeedy -- unfotunately he's never averaged anything close to that in his entire career, and would have to be averaging 32-35min for there to even be an outside shot of that happening (at whcih point BTW you;re not getting much production out of those minutes).

Think he's going to average 32-35min? Neither do I.

He may average 20min. If Cisco doesn't step up or Kevin falls out of favor.

And in that kind of time he's been pretty predictable --maybe 6 2 and 2.

Actually I should not say he's been predictable, because he's anything but. His game varies wildly up and down -- he had a handul of impressive games last year. Also a handful or more of really ugly ones. He probably earned those Suns+Toronto offers with his game Jan 31 against the Suns (when I think Colangelo was still with them) when he turned in his best performance of the season: 19pts 10rebs 4ast 2stl on 7-17. Of course Colangelo/Phoenix weren't around a couple of nights later as he tunred in a 35min turd against the Cavs wiht 3pts 2rebs 4ast on 1-5shooting.

(oddly he was totally ineffective against us in two meetings -- 9pts 5rebs 1ast in 46 combined min)
 
V

Vitamin K

Prospect
#70
#70
Bricklayer said:
Yes indeedy -- unfotunately he's never averaged anything close to that in his entire career, and would have to be averaging 32-35min for there to even be an outside shot of that happening (at whcih point BTW you;re not getting much production out of those minutes).

Think he's going to average 32-35min? Neither do I.

He may average 20min. If Cisco doesn't step up or Kevin falls out of favor.

And in that kind of time he's been pretty predictable --maybe 6 2 and 2.

Actually I should not say he's been predictable, because he's anything but. His game varies wildly up and down -- he had a handul of impressive games last year. Also a handful or more of really ugly ones. He probably earned those Suns+Toronto offers with his game Jan 31 against the Suns (when I think Colangelo was still with them) when he turned in his best performance of the season: 19pts 10rebs 4ast 2stl on 7-17. Of course Colangelo/Phoenix weren't around a couple of nights later as he tunred in a 35min turd against the Cavs wiht 3pts 2rebs 4ast on 1-5shooting.

(oddly he was totally ineffective against us in two meetings -- 9pts 5rebs 1ast in 46 combined min)
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Well I guess we will just have to wait til next year. I think getting out of the shadow of A.I. will do wonders for his game. I think he would have thrived in Adelman's offense (How many different coaches did he have in Philly???) we will see how he does with Muss, I guess we will see how the whole team does with Muss. I hope Geoff isn't done and we finally get that defensive big we all have been wanting. Nice talking with you Brick! This board is fun!!!!!;)
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#71
#71
QueensFan said:
Big difference. The issue now is not that Salmons sucks, it's that he IS NOT WHAT WE NEED, so WHY DID WE OVERPAY FOR HIM? You overpay for a guy when he really fills a vital need - if we overpaid for a mediocre center, fine. But ANOTHER swingman? Why use the ENTIRE MLE on a mediocre swingman WHO WE DON'T NEED. This is the problem.
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Actually wrong on both accounts.

1) We didn't spend the entire MLE on Salmons and
2) We very much needed experiences swingman if Bonzi was to leave.

All this talk that we don't need another swingman is a bit of a fantasy. I sure as hell wouldn't be too comfortable with Douby or Garcia as a starter next year if god forid, one of Artest or Martin suffered a long term injury.

Salmons gives us a player that can genuinely play 3 positions and will bring us a bit of clam influence when Cisco and Douby go all out of control on us.

Would I rather we addressed our frontcourt needs? Bloody oath! But its not like we didn't need a swingman to replace Bonzi. If we weren't in need of another swingman we wouldn't have looked to re-sign Bonzi.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#72
#72
Salmons isn't that bad. I had him on my fantasy team a coupe years back, and when AI went out I was in heaven. This guy can play pretty well when given the chance.

*Off the bench he gives us defense, and athleticism.
*About a 2-1 assist/to ratio which isn't great, but not horrible.
*Not a long distance shooter, but will probally take 82 this year, and hit about 25-30 of them.
*He drives to the basket more than he shoots the jumpshot, and when at the line is an OK FT shooter. About 75-80% which is about average.
*A big point guard, and has the athletic ability to guard the smaller point guards and keep up with them.

He is not here to start people. He is not the saviour of the franchise. He is a bench PG/spot starter if needed. He is a HUGE upgrade over Hart so I am not sure why everyone is so pissed. He has at least proved he can play defense, and spot start. Everyone is crucifying Petrie over a backup PG signing lol.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#73
#73
Gary said:
He is not here to start people. He is not the saviour of the franchise. He is a bench PG/spot starter if needed. He is a HUGE upgrade over Hart so I am not sure why everyone is so pissed. He has at least proved he can play defense, and spot start. Everyone is crucifying Petrie over a backup PG signing lol.
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A $25mil backup PG signing foreclosing many of our avenues of actual improvement this offseason.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#75
#75
its the price tag that has everyone upset.... if he were making 2mil a season most of us would be giddy to get salmons.... but 25mil for 5 seasons? thats soccer riot territory right there....
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#79
#79
Bricklayer said:
A $25mil backup PG signing foreclosing many of our avenues of actual improvement this offseason.
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Who else was out there to sign that filled a need? (besides Bonzi)

I think he will be fine here, and give the team what we want. But I agree that 25mil was too much to pay for a guy like Salmons. For a guy like that (if it were 5 years I would think about 18mil at the most)
 
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Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#82
#82
slugking50 said:
Ive been under the impression the last few weeks that Bonzi was looking for atleast a 5 year 12-15 a year deal. :eek:

That rediculous enough?! Is to me.
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Sure its ridiculous enough, but I get the feeling you don't have any source for that kind of number beyond your gut, and its certainly so ridiculous that there is not a GM in the NBA who would even encourage the agent's delusions of grandeur by talking to him about something at that level.
 
dukeswh

dukeswh

Bench
#83
#83
I don't understand why there's so much hate going Salmons' way. He hasn't even played a single game in a Kings uni yet. Sure, the contract is ridiculous, but he is not to be blamed for that. And it is surely not his fault that Bonzi is going to walk away, is it? So why don't we just all wait and see what happens before we start bagging on the guy, ok? Peace.
 
E

e'tinas

Guest
#84
#84
Bricklayer said:
Indeed, KT's career numbers are 10.7pts 7.4rebs. Salmons 5.1pts 2.1reb. comapratively KT is an All-Star.
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Brick, if you are going to compare career numbers......................wouldn't it only be fair to look at per48's for the fact that Salmons avg's 18 mins a game and KT avg's 30 mins a game?
 
G_M

G_M

Starter
#85
#85
Bricklayer said:
Sure its ridiculous enough, but I get the feeling you don't have any source for that kind of number beyond your gut, and its certainly so ridiculous that there is not a GM in the NBA who would even encourage the agent's delusions of grandeur by talking to him about something at that level.
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Doesn't the fact there apparently have been no serious discussions with other teams give credence to the notion that his agent is asking for an unreasonable amount?
 
BigWaxer

BigWaxer

Starter
#86
#86
Okay here is the problem I see with the entire picture. We are paying 25 mil for a player that sucks. He has been in the league long enough to at least have one semi-decent year and he hasn't. What can he do well? Don't tell me pass the ball and be our #2 PG when he has 2.5 assists in 25min last year with 2 guys that do nothing but shoot the first time they touch the ball.

Handle? Thats the only thing I have heard he does okay. Great he is going to handle a ball for 25mil. He can't shoot, he cannot defend, has no outside shot to spread the D. Just wondering? Is he all the sudden gonna find his home here.

Brick touched on it earlier but didn't expand more. Darius went for $21 mill for 5 years. He was waiting for us and what happened? This is not about Darius read on...

We are also thinking RA days. With RA I may have left the door of hope open, he always seemed to make players better. With Muss I have my doubts, not knocking Muss but he hasn't proven anything to me yet. BTW I think he is a good coach I liken him to Gruden in the NFL.. So I am not knocking him.

My problem is... there was better talent for the money. Why did Petrie even go down this road? Petrie said the talks with Bonzi stopped off over 10 days ago... Okay doing the math we could of had Darius and a choice of a few other players, obviously not a ton of players this year but he could of had someone better for sure ??? Was he holding out for Salmon HAHA?
 
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sactown100

sactown100

G-League
#87
#87
was Salmons not on the 76'ers this whole time... umm ok well then like i said there never going to win anything and its too bad they got Webber now cause he is impossible to trade so looks like there going to have to ship out A.I. because of that... Salmons never had a chance ... if your on the 76'er your basketball life as you know it is over... wow they suck dont blame Salmons for being on a terrible team with 2 of the top 3 most selfesh players(kobe is the first)
 
Mr. S£im Citrus

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#88
#88
sactown100, your previous post has been deleted: posting the exact same comments in two separate threads is overkill; three is borderline spam.

Knock it off.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#90
#90
I think the point people aren't willing to accept is that he was brought in, according to reports, primarily to act as Bibby's back-up. He's going to be running the point so Bibby can get some much-needed rest, not becoming an instant starter.

Last year we watched as Bibby slowly but surely ran out of gas because the only real back-up he had was ... Jason Hart. Now, we have a legitimate back-up who did well in that role last year behind AI, and he can also perform at some level at the 2 and 3.

It's also been reported that Musselman wanted him. That seems to indicate to me that Muss and Petrie just might see something in Salmons none of us have noticed. I still say I'm going to wait and see what happens before I proclaim this to be a bad move on the part of the Kings.
 
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