[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

[pdxKingsFan]

I mean, if we wanna get gaudy, Sabonis is 12th on the all-time triple-doubles list and he's only 27 years old.

Just to add to this, last time I checked (a monthish ago) exactly half of his his triple doubles came since he joined the Kings. Since he's had like 4 in the last two weeks it's safe to say that gap is going to get much wider by the end of the year. He will pass Fat Lever's 43 by the All Star Break and is 20 behind Bird before he cracks the top 10. (assuming basketball reference already updated tonight's)

He'll wind up top 7 almost certainly if he keeps his current pace over the duration of his contract with a solid chance at the top 5. Quite a few active players are up there though.

Back to Padrino's point and that last point - 5 of the current top 10 are active players. But Big O is #2 at 181 (Magic is #3). The old stats just don't match the new. Because those are two GOAT level players who have fallen out of favor in modern stat times.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

This. In the history of the NBA, point guards like Hali who racks up the assists and dominates the APG every year (Chris Paul/Trae Young/John Stockton/Steve Nash/Luka/Harden/Westbrook/TH) has NEVER won the championship.

Until TH wins the chip, I think having an all around good and well balanced team with good defense wins championships and not having one guy dominate the ball the whole game and average 12 assists per game.

I don’t buy this. How about Magic Johnson? Jokic? LeBron when he averaged 9-10 assists? I don’t buy into the premise that you can’t have your star player be a pass first general. You just need the supporting cast who can score consistently when they get the ball wide open. The Pacers are banking on top free agents wanting to play with him, so we’ll see what happens if they’re able to attract top talent.

By the way, look up Hali’s usage and compare it with Fox. He’s not as ball dominant as you would think, he just happens to make a high % of good decisions when he has the ball. And his scoring also happens to be really good also; he doesn’t have this internal counter that tells him 14 shot attempts is 1 too many like Nash and CP3 had

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don’t buy this. How about Magic Johnson? Jokic? LeBron when he averaged 9-10 assists? I don’t buy into the premise that you can’t have your star player be a pass first general. You just need the supporting cast who can score consistently when they get the ball wide open. The Pacers are banking on top free agents wanting to play with him, so we’ll see what happens if they’re able to attract top talent.

By the way, look up Hali’s usage and compare it with Fox. He’s not as ball dominant as you would think, he just happens to make a high % of good decisions when he has the ball. And his scoring also happens to be really good also; he doesn’t have this internal counter that tells him 14 shot attempts is 1 too many like Nash and CP3 had

The Pacers are only averaging like two more assists per game than the Kings, I don't think it's as simple as Hali has better vision/decision making when Fox and Domas combine for essentially the same assists nightly as Hali does. It's a philosophical/strategy thing.

If the Pacers think they are going to be flooded with free agents beating down their door I wish them luck. This list isn't exactly confidence inspiring:
https://clutchpoints.com/pacers-8-best-free-agent-signings-franchise-history-ranked

 

[Tizzy Flip]

The Pacers are only averaging like two more assists per game than the Kings, I don't think it's as simple as Hali has better vision/decision making when Fox and Domas combine for essentially the same assists nightly as Hali does. It's a philosophical/strategy thing.

If the Pacers think they are going to be flooded with free agents beating down their door I wish them luck. This list isn't exactly confidence inspiring:
https://clutchpoints.com/pacers-8-best-free-agent-signings-franchise-history-ranked

To be clear, I wasn’t comparing Hali to Fox/Sabonis. Both teams are unselfish as a whole and it reflects in the stats, just 2 very different ways to get there with the talent on hand. They’re heavy PNR, we’re heavy DHO. Just contesting that you can’t have a pass-first leader take you to the promised land.

If I’m Indy, I try and make a move for someone like Lauri or KAT. Add some complementary pieces like Jarrett Allen and Stephen Adams (if he ever gets healthy).

 

[Showtime]

Brotherman, we're in the year 2024, not 2021. Things have changed in the last few years.

Bagley over Luka is our Sam Bowie over MJ moment. No matter how much the media WANT this to be the case, trading Hali, who absolutely is one of the best players in the league, to unlock our own 29-6-5 guard on elite efficiency AND getting a 20-13-8 center as compensation is not it. I think a big part of the reason Sabonis doesn't get his respect from the media is because they SO badly wanted to dunk on us for dealing Hali, but he's making it impossible.

Sure, we traded a guy who's developed into one of the best players in the NBA. We received one of the best players in the NBA in return. And we unlocked our guy to also become one of the best players in the NBA. Anyone still trying to say we lost this trade is just being delusional.

I get the addition by subtraction argument, but my point wasn't about making a deal with Indy specifically for Sabonis.

Sabonis isn't going to get better then he is right now, and he's in the discussion for fourth best big man in the league. Fox is a great guard, but he's in the discussion for top 5 guard in the show. Neither of them are top 10 players in the game. Doncic is a top 5 player in the entire league, and TH is top 10. TH is in the middle of his 4th season and at this point better then Fox who only broke out as elite last season, his 6th. My point is not that we don't have talent, but we could have had all-league talent a step above what we have now. People seem to confuse this viewpoint with not appreciating the team's talent currently. I get it, but there's a difference between an All-Star player and All-NBA 1st team MVP caliber player, and the team could have had two of them and currently has zero of them.

 

[Remi]

and the team could have had two of them and currently has zero of them.

Shortbrained ....

 

[Tetsujin]

I get the addition by subtraction argument, but my point wasn't about making a deal with Indy specifically for Sabonis.

Sabonis isn't going to get better then he is right now, and he's in the discussion for fourth best big man in the league. Fox is a great guard, but he's in the discussion for top 5 guard in the show. Neither of them are top 10 players in the game. Doncic is a top 5 player in the entire league, and TH is top 10. TH is in the middle of his 4th season and at this point better then Fox who only broke out as elite last season, his 6th. My point is not that we don't have talent, but we could have had all-league talent a step above what we have now. People seem to confuse this viewpoint with not appreciating the team's talent currently. I get it, but there's a difference between an All-Star player and All-NBA 1st team MVP caliber player, and the team could have had two of them and currently has zero of them.

Tyrese isn’t even better than Fox as is.

 

[Caccia]

After 34 games, the Kings have four players shooting over 40% from three: Monk (41.6% on 6.5 attempts), Barnes (41.1% on 4.4 attempts), and Lyles (41% on 4.1 attempts). This is excellent. De'Aaron Fox is not too far behind, at 38.9%, but he averages 8.5 attempts per game. Perhaps shoot fewer threes? Barnes and Lyles have been on fire the past ten games; Monk had the three poor games recently when his foot was sore, but often has carried the team. Those three guys need to shoot more overall.

The problem is that in the league overall, Sacramento is only 11th in 3-point FG%, tied with Boston. That means the team has to do a better job of finding the hot hand. It would help if Keegan Murray hit the long ball more consistently, in line with his perfect 4-4 last night against Toronto.

 

[Warhawk]

Doncic is a top 5 player in the entire league, and TH is top 10. TH is in the middle of his 4th season and at this point better then Fox who only broke out as elite last season, his 6th.

I would disagree that Hali is a top 10 player in the league.

He's fantastic. Offensively he's turned into an amazing player. I loved him while he was here and didn't want to see him go, but it wasn't working. Something had to give, and there were not great offers to take on Fox's salary at the time. You have to give to get.

I've seen lists with him in the top 20 and still have a hard time with that as I think that often these lists completely ignore the defensive side of the game. We'll just leave it at that.

For overall game impact, personally I like Sabonis better on the Kings. He rebounds, sets hard screens, runs the offense, is a double-double / triple-double threat, and has helped completely revitalize the team. He takes a beating down low and keeps trucking along. He's not flashy but is the "lunchpail and hard hat player" this team needed.

 

[See_Hanks]

Last year at this time we were 19-15 after 34 games. This year we are 21-13. If we keep up this win % (61.8%) we will win 50 games. 50.6 wins lol.. So either 51-31 or 50-32.

 

[See_Hanks]

Tyrese isn’t even better than Fox as is.

ehhhh.. I think TH is at least equal to Fox at this point in his career. I have a feeling that when it's all said and done, TH will have had the better career, but not by much.

 

[dude12]

I would disagree that Hali is a top 10 player in the league.

He's fantastic. Offensively he's turned into an amazing player. I loved him while he was here and didn't want to see him go, but it wasn't working. Something had to give, and there were not great offers to take on Fox's salary at the time. You have to give to get.

I've seen lists with him in the top 20 and still have a hard time with that as I think that often these lists completely ignore the defensive side of the game. We'll just leave it at that.

For overall game impact, personally I like Sabonis better on the Kings. He rebounds, sets hard screens, runs the offense, is a double-double / triple-double threat, and has helped completely revitalize the team. He takes a beating down low and keeps trucking along. He's not flashy but is the "lunchpail and hard hat player" this team needed.

There are many many impact PG’s in the league, it’s a crowded field. We just happen to have one of the few impact centers in the league to go a long with our impact PG. It shouldn’t be that hard to figure out for fans. Unless one is delusional to think TH is the best PG out there.

 

[dude12]

ehhhh.. I think TH is at least equal to Fox at this point in his career. I have a feeling that when it's all said and done, TH will have had the better career, but not by much.

Not if he doesn’t learn to play defense or are we going to keep ignoring that?

 

[SacTownKid]

Last year at this time we were 19-15 after 34 games. This year we are 21-13. If we keep up this win % (61.8%) we will win 50 games. 50.6 wins lol.. So either 51-31 or 50-32.

Which right now is good for no home court advantage. After years teams at the back end decided to dip out of the playoff race which is going to pump the upper half, problem is the teams at the top got stronger. The scary team is still the Suns. They haven't had a full core yet and and are still +.500. This might be another year where whoever scores at the deadline wins.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

After 34 games, the Kings have four players shooting over 40% from three: Monk (41.6% on 6.5 attempts), Barnes (41.1% on 4.4 attempts), and Lyles (41% on 4.1 attempts). This is excellent. De'Aaron Fox is not too far behind, at 38.9%, but he averages 8.5 attempts per game. Perhaps shoot fewer threes? Barnes and Lyles have been on fire the past ten games; Monk had the three poor games recently when his foot was sore, but often has carried the team. Those three guys need to shoot more overall.

The problem is that in the league overall, Sacramento is only 11th in 3-point FG%, tied with Boston. That means the team has to do a better job of finding the hot hand. It would help if Keegan Murray hit the long ball more consistently, in line with his perfect 4-4 last night against Toronto.

I think the Kings are better as a team, when Fox doesn't shoot as many 3's. I've noticed several plays where he had an open lane to the paint and turned it down for a 3. Kinda lets the opponent off the hook. I want to see him keep the pressure on the defense with his interior game

 

[The_Jamal]

I think the Kings are better as a team, when Fox doesn't shoot as many 3's. I've noticed several plays where he had an open lane to the paint and turned it down for a 3. Kinda lets the opponent off the hook. I want to see him keep the pressure on the defense with his interior game

Gotta wonder if he's trying to conserve energy a bit this season. Or just pick his spots a little better for attacking the rim, instead of all the time.

But 38% on 8 attempts is incredibly good offense. If that falters a bit, we can reevaluate, but as of now, that's a high % shot and offense for us. Just an added bonus Fox isn't expended as much energy

 

[Spike]

love Tyreke, but drafting him instead of Steph was a mistake for the franchise

I love Demarcus, but drafting him instead of....
...
...
Paul George was a mistake for the franchise.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Gotta wonder if he's trying to conserve energy a bit this season. Or just pick his spots a little better for attacking the rim, instead of all the time.

But 38% on 8 attempts is incredibly good offense. If that falters a bit, we can reevaluate, but as of now, that's a high % shot and offense for us. Just an added bonus Fox isn't expended as much energy

I hope that's the case. I don't want to see him become a "live by the 3, or die by the 3" player going into the playoffs. The interior game is much more reliable for a playoff run

 

[Remi]

I get the addition by subtraction argument, but my point wasn't about making a deal with Indy specifically for Sabonis.

Sabonis isn't going to get better then he is right now, and he's in the discussion for fourth best big man in the league. Fox is a great guard, but he's in the discussion for top 5 guard in the show. Neither of them are top 10 players in the game. Doncic is a top 5 player in the entire league, and TH is top 10.

WTF do you smoke, that decided that TH is top10?? Biggest crap in my opinion.

 

[Tetsujin]

I love Demarcus, but drafting him instead of....
...
...
Paul George was a mistake for the franchise.

I feel like up until De’Aaron, DeMarcus was like the one example of the Kings having good draft luck and absolutely not whiffing on a pick for once. Sure, there’s the attitude thing or whatever but the guys drafted both before and after him all sorta wound up being terrible picks aside from John Wall who was the unanimous number one pick in every single mock draft for like three years leading up to the draft. Like the only other lotto picks drafted after Boogie who even lasted in the league and were good are Gordon Hayward, now a giant albatross contract/walking injury risk, and Paul George (dude who had an almost unprecedented development curve and who came into the league right at the perfect time as a jumbo wing).

 

[Kingz19]

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news...arded-free-throws-in-loss-to-sacramento-kings

“The NBA says Immanuel Quickley should have been awarded free throws in the final seconds of the Toronto Raptors loss to the Sacramento Kings”


Interesting, just looked like a dumb shot to me

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

I feel like up until De’Aaron, DeMarcus was like the one example of the Kings having good draft luck and absolutely not whiffing on a pick for once. Sure, there’s the attitude thing or whatever but the guys drafted both before and after him all sorta wound up being terrible picks aside from John Wall who was the unanimous number one pick in every single mock draft for like three years leading up to the draft. Like the only other lotto picks drafted after Boogie who even lasted in the league and were good are Gordon Hayward, now a giant albatross contract/walking injury risk, and Paul George (dude who had an almost unprecedented development curve and who came into the league right at the perfect time as a jumbo wing).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/draft.html

That's a good observation. Cousins was the only good lottery pick the Kings made between Fox... and Jason Williams!

 

[dude12]

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news...arded-free-throws-in-loss-to-sacramento-kings

“The NBA says Immanuel Quickley should have been awarded free throws in the final seconds of the Toronto Raptors loss to the Sacramento Kings”


Interesting, just looked like a dumb shot to me

lol…..the free throw disparity was so lopsided but of course the NBA wants to give Toront9 even more FT’s in that game.

 

[Caccia]

We fans have been writing a lot about rotations lately, especially changes we would like to see, or at least tried.

But after the last, embarrassing loss to the Pelicans, I come to the conclusion that I have no clue as to what Mike Brown is trying to do, other than to plug the starting shooting guard position with anyone not named Malik Monk.

Is there a method to this madness?

 

[ick300]

I am really starting to believe that Coach has pretty good idea what is best for the team and is not playing it at all ...
I think that stating from 09-02 we are going to have very different look and we haven't seen it yet ...
So i will call it rather strategy then madness (though it looks more like madness )

 

[Capt. Factorial]

We fans have been writing a lot about rotations lately, especially changes we would like to see, or at least tried.

But after the last, embarrassing loss to the Pelicans, I come to the conclusion that I have no clue as to what Mike Brown is trying to do, other than to plug the starting shooting guard position with anyone not named Malik Monk.

Is there a method to this madness?

Yes, there is a method to the madness, and it has been explained many times. For rotational purposes, Malik Monk comes off the bench. Mike Brown believes, not without reason, that a team's best players/scorers should have their minutes distributed. He does not tend to do hockey "line shifts", but subs players piecemeal. You may have noticed that with very few exceptions, he will stagger his rotations to ensure that either Fox or Domas (if not both) is on the floor at any one time. Since there is only one ball, the strategy of having your best five players all on the floor together, and then pulling them all off of the floor and putting in your #6-#10 players is a poor strategy. The second lineup will not perform very well. The first lineup will underutilize the best players because, as I said, there is only one ball. Monk coming off of the bench is a part of Brown's rotational strategy to maximize the usage of his best players. You should hopefully note that on the season, Monk has received the most minutes per game of any shooting guard on the team, and he is the shooting guard who is on the floor in crunch time of close games. These facts indicate that Brown sees Monk as his #1 SG. But a bunch of people are apparently still stuck on "who starts" as if that's the only thing that matters.

Finishing close games > total minutes > starting. Brown's insistence on using Duarte (for admittedly tiny minutes) while Huerter has dropped out of the starting role is perfectly consistent with Brown maintaining his rotations and not wasting Malik Monk's scoring ability by forcing him to be on the floor for even more minutes with the other best scorers on the team. By asking for Monk to start, you're asking for the team to neuter him (or Keegan) like Harrison Barnes has been neutered. A bunch of guys around here complain about that. Yet here you are demanding the same thing be done to Monk. I don't get it.

 

[Caccia]

Yes, there is a method to the madness, and it has been explained many times. For rotational purposes, Malik Monk comes off the bench. Mike Brown believes, not without reason, that a team's best players/scorers should have their minutes distributed. He does not tend to do hockey "line shifts", but subs players piecemeal. You may have noticed that with very few exceptions, he will stagger his rotations to ensure that either Fox or Domas (if not both) is on the floor at any one time. Since there is only one ball, the strategy of having your best five players all on the floor together, and then pulling them all off of the floor and putting in your #6-#10 players is a poor strategy. The second lineup will not perform very well. The first lineup will underutilize the best players because, as I said, there is only one ball. Monk coming off of the bench is a part of Brown's rotational strategy to maximize the usage of his best players. You should hopefully note that on the season, Monk has received the most minutes per game of any shooting guard on the team, and he is the shooting guard who is on the floor in crunch time of close games. These facts indicate that Brown sees Monk as his #1 SG. But a bunch of people are apparently still stuck on "who starts" as if that's the only thing that matters.

Finishing close games > total minutes > starting. Brown's insistence on using Duarte (for admittedly tiny minutes) while Huerter has dropped out of the starting role is perfectly consistent with Brown maintaining his rotations and not wasting Malik Monk's scoring ability by forcing him to be on the floor for even more minutes with the other best scorers on the team. By asking for Monk to start, you're asking for the team to neuter him (or Keegan) like Harrison Barnes has been neutered. A bunch of guys around here complain about that. Yet here you are demanding the same thing be done to Monk. I don't get it.

Okay, explain this to me: Keon Ellis played over 10 minutes in nine straight games, and played very well. Next five games, 4 DNPCDs. JaVale McGee, whose minutes are all over the map, has not played over twelve minutes in a game since November 20. Chris Duarte played less than 10 minutes in nine of eleven games, then all of a sudden starts playing over 24. Alex Len was injured for the entire first quarter of the season, come back, performs very well, then all of a sudden is relegated to the bench.

Who is playing with whom? The staggering of player substitutions, apart from Sabonis-Fox-Sabonis-Fox, has lost all shape and in some recent games, all effectiveness.

No, I do not believe these patterns have been "explained many times." Last year, Coach Brown was very set in his substitution patterns, to the point of rigidity. In my opinion, it cost his team game 7 in the playoffs. This year, what gives?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Yes, there is a method to the madness, and it has been explained many times. For rotational purposes, Malik Monk comes off the bench. Mike Brown believes, not without reason, that a team's best players/scorers should have their minutes distributed. He does not tend to do hockey "line shifts", but subs players piecemeal. You may have noticed that with very few exceptions, he will stagger his rotations to ensure that either Fox or Domas (if not both) is on the floor at any one time. Since there is only one ball, the strategy of having your best five players all on the floor together, and then pulling them all off of the floor and putting in your #6-#10 players is a poor strategy. The second lineup will not perform very well. The first lineup will underutilize the best players because, as I said, there is only one ball. Monk coming off of the bench is a part of Brown's rotational strategy to maximize the usage of his best players. You should hopefully note that on the season, Monk has received the most minutes per game of any shooting guard on the team, and he is the shooting guard who is on the floor in crunch time of close games. These facts indicate that Brown sees Monk as his #1 SG. But a bunch of people are apparently still stuck on "who starts" as if that's the only thing that matters.

Finishing close games > total minutes > starting. Brown's insistence on using Duarte (for admittedly tiny minutes) while Huerter has dropped out of the starting role is perfectly consistent with Brown maintaining his rotations and not wasting Malik Monk's scoring ability by forcing him to be on the floor for even more minutes with the other best scorers on the team. By asking for Monk to start, you're asking for the team to neuter him (or Keegan) like Harrison Barnes has been neutered. A bunch of guys around here complain about that. Yet here you are demanding the same thing be done to Monk. I don't get it.

The push back on that is, if the starting lineup would be hampered with Monk starting, then why isn't the closing lineup? They can still do the staggering with him there, in a different way.

Barnes hasn't been part of the closing lineup, it makes sense to move him to the 2nd unit where he'll get more shots

 

[dude12]

Okay, explain this to me: Keon Ellis played over 10 minutes in nine straight games, and played very well. Next five games, 4 DNPCDs. JaVale McGee, whose minutes are all over the map, has not played over twelve minutes in a game since November 20. Chris Duarte played less than 10 minutes in nine of eleven games, then all of a sudden starts playing over 24. Alex Len was injured for the entire first quarter of the season, come back, performs very well, then all of a sudden is relegated to the bench.

Who is playing with whom? The staggering of player substitutions, apart from Sabonis-Fox-Sabonis-Fox, has lost all shape and in some recent games, all effectiveness.

No, I do not believe these patterns have been "explained many times." Last year, Coach Brown was very set in his substitution patterns, to the point of rigidity. In my opinion, it cost his team game 7 in the playoffs. This year, what gives?

I think he’s searching for the best group of guys to play come stretch run and playoffs. And he’s a coach that believes in giving players more than a game opportunity….more like 5-8 or so.
Keon, Davion, McGee, Len, Sasha, Huerter, Kessler all have warts to their games.
I just think he’s looking at big picture down the road.

 

[GWD]

I think he’s searching for the best group of guys to play come stretch run and playoffs. And he’s a coach that believes in giving players more than a game opportunity….more like 5-8 or so.
Keon, Davion, McGee, Len, Sasha, Huerter, Kessler all have warts to their games.
I just think he’s looking at big picture down the road.

First, there has to be a "down the road" to picture.