It's why, I've always felt that his value as an elite or non-elite player would come down to whether he could defend the 5. Otherwise, you bank on the high floor, the work ethic, and settle for the good shooting, non-play making 4/3 that you drafted a few ticks higher than where he should've been drafted.
Keegan Murray
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
I'd have to disagree with you. What we're seeing asked of Keegan is also the same thing that the Blazers have asked of Shaedon Sharpe, as well as AJ Griffin. Both whom are on better teams than the Kings, but are playing substantially better.
I was pretty critical of the Keegan draft pick and wanted Johnny Davis who can't even get time on an NBA floor, but a lot of Keegan's pre-draft concerns are bringing itself to the surface. If his shots aren't falling, is he contributing elsewhere? The answer to the question has been a consensus "no" at this point that everyone can agree on.
If he's 19 and struggling, then we can give him more leeway.. but he's 22 and older than almost everyone else. We're not asking him to do much and he still looks lost out there.
When the offense continues to go cold, he needs to be the one who can at least make his shots. In our back to back loses, he's a total 1-13 from the floor... for a total of 7pts in 2 games. That's some Justin Jackson numbers. He needs to play 100% better.
I was pretty critical of the Keegan draft pick and wanted Johnny Davis who can't even get time on an NBA floor, but a lot of Keegan's pre-draft concerns are bringing itself to the surface. If his shots aren't falling, is he contributing elsewhere? The answer to the question has been a consensus "no" at this point that everyone can agree on.
If he's 19 and struggling, then we can give him more leeway.. but he's 22 and older than almost everyone else. We're not asking him to do much and he still looks lost out there.
When the offense continues to go cold, he needs to be the one who can at least make his shots. In our back to back loses, he's a total 1-13 from the floor... for a total of 7pts in 2 games. That's some Justin Jackson numbers. He needs to play 100% better.
Towards the end of pre-season, I mentioned that I thought opposing teams would stick their guards on Murray when the Kings are on offense. That's what's been happening, because they recognize that he's one dimensional, crowd him with quickness. No need to put size on him. Until he starts abusing that, it's not going to change. And it's not just driving and creating/scoring, its driving off of either hand. Look at the film on Murray and the only time he goes directly to the rim on drives is when he's going right and while on the move. If he's on his left hand, 95% of the time, he'll pull up, stop his dribble, and pivot back for a pass to a teammate.
As for the off the court stuff, that excuse is well past expiration. A game or two? Sure. But you were drafted by the middle manager, because of your high floor maturity. Time to lever those attributes.
As for the off the court stuff, that excuse is well past expiration. A game or two? Sure. But you were drafted by the middle manager, because of your high floor maturity. Time to lever those attributes.
Really bums me out to see folks turning on Keegs. At this point I'm concerned mostly about his grandma's status and also if his back is well yet. If it isn't and it's killing his shot, rest the dude. Maybe getting home after Boston and a few nights in his own bed and some rest will help get there. Back injuries are killers, of the career variety. Hopefully I'm barking up the wrong tree and it's mental, either way, he already showed that he can hit shots so I don't think we are looking at a guy coming into the league and forgetting how to play, it's just he hit some of life's roadblocks.
Agree. At the moment he is a rookie who is being asked to be the 4th/ 5th option on offence and for whatever reason as a point of attack/ perimeter guy on defence. Both are new roles. And then throw in Covid, back health, family health, travel, rookie learning curve etc. I don't think anyone needs to be worried about his skillset. We know he can shoot off movement - and therefore will be more than a stretch four like Belly/ Lyles. We have seen glimpses of his post scoring ability that will be there when his role starts to grow. And glimpses of his potential as a help defender. He doesn't look great off the dribble - but that's not the only way to create offence or add value to a team - even for a number four pick. If you want to be concerned maybe, you could ask questions about his assertiveness at this level. But the only way to get an answer to that question is to wait.
Keegan is not asked to guard the opponent's best players on a nightly basis.. But look at their shooting %. They are way ahead of Keegan.
Keegan - 29.1mins: 10.4pts 3.9rebs 1.0asts 0.8stls 1.5tos on 39.9/31.9/83.8 shooting splits
AJ Griffin - 17.4mins: 8.8pts 2.0rebs 0.8asts 0.9stls 0.7tos on 51.5/42/100 shooting splits
Sharpe - 20.6mins: 8.4pts 2.4rebs 0.4asts 0.2tls 0.8tos on 49.6/41.3/64.7 shooting splits
Something to take account with these numbers is that Griffin and Sharpe are playing the SG/SF slots while Keegan is at SF/PF.
Adding another thing, I'm only comparing him to these rookies because they're the young guns who have similar roles on their team as Keegan. They aren't being asked to do much because both of their teams are also looking to make playoff runs. No one is even bringing up Paolo, Mathruin, or Ivey... all 3 of whom are leading the ROY races.
Keegan - 29.1mins: 10.4pts 3.9rebs 1.0asts 0.8stls 1.5tos on 39.9/31.9/83.8 shooting splits
AJ Griffin - 17.4mins: 8.8pts 2.0rebs 0.8asts 0.9stls 0.7tos on 51.5/42/100 shooting splits
Sharpe - 20.6mins: 8.4pts 2.4rebs 0.4asts 0.2tls 0.8tos on 49.6/41.3/64.7 shooting splits
Something to take account with these numbers is that Griffin and Sharpe are playing the SG/SF slots while Keegan is at SF/PF.
Adding another thing, I'm only comparing him to these rookies because they're the young guns who have similar roles on their team as Keegan. They aren't being asked to do much because both of their teams are also looking to make playoff runs. No one is even bringing up Paolo, Mathruin, or Ivey... all 3 of whom are leading the ROY races.
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Keegan has guarded Steph Curry, Paul George, Donovan Mitchell and more. So yes he has been asked to guard some of the top players on the teams. Those numbers today are better than his but they weren’t 5 or 6 games ago. And they certainly aren’t way better. Paulo, Math and Ivey? Yes, but not those other guys.
Anyways, if Keegan gets back to shooting the splits he is capable of we can move on to another topic.
Anyways, if Keegan gets back to shooting the splits he is capable of we can move on to another topic.
It's almost like we said Keegan is in an entirely situation than every other rookie in the top. He's not the #1 option who gets to play through mistakes and get his 15+ shots a game like Paolo and Ivey. Brown said it; if he's not playing well, they have guys they can turn to now to help get wins.
The negative nancies are just noise, as usual. The movement shooting Keegan showed this summer and early in the year is utterly special. He's taken by far tougher defensive perimeter assignments than I would have given him, but that also shows a tremendous amount of trust from Brown, who knows 10000000000000000000000x more about NBA defense than all of us combined.
If anything, I think the Kings long-term are by far the best spot for him to develop and hit his ceiling as a player.
The negative nancies are just noise, as usual. The movement shooting Keegan showed this summer and early in the year is utterly special. He's taken by far tougher defensive perimeter assignments than I would have given him, but that also shows a tremendous amount of trust from Brown, who knows 10000000000000000000000x more about NBA defense than all of us combined.
If anything, I think the Kings long-term are by far the best spot for him to develop and hit his ceiling as a player.
Yeah because it’s unreasonable to expect our 22-year-old rookie, 4th overall pick to play better than 3pts a game and going 2-21 from the field in his last 3 games.
I’ll drop the topic because it’s not going to go anywhere until he starts playing good again. Contrary to popular belief, I’m rooting for him to get through this slump. Hopefully it starts tonight against the Suns
I’ll drop the topic because it’s not going to go anywhere until he starts playing good again. Contrary to popular belief, I’m rooting for him to get through this slump. Hopefully it starts tonight against the Suns
Murray will be just fine, and while I was a fan of Johnny Davis, Murray is a better player. Yes, he's struggling and it's for a lot of different reasons, Probably reasons you could care less about, but they are important. Murray at the start of the season came off the bench, and was at worse the number 2 option on offense, and at times he was number one. When he got put in the starting lineup, he was by default, the number 4 option mostly because Barnes was struggling.
However, with Barnes returning to form, Keegan is the number 5 option, and he's struggling because he knows that he'll only get at max, around 7 or 8 attempts on most nights. When you're a rookie and you know your shots are limited, you know need to make them count, and sometimes that gets in you head and you start pressing, and missing. When asked about his play of late and the struggle, He said that he was trying to figure out when he should shoot, and how to put himself in the best position to get a shot. All the while trying to absorb an offense that's new to him, the speed of the game.
In other words he's trying to figure out how to fit in and contribute. This is perfectly normal for a rookie. Go back and find early stats on players like Kobe or Dirk and you'll find out that they didn't start by putting up all star stats. Quite the contrary! In Dirk's case, they're were fans just like you that wanted to run him out of town. What a mistake that would have been. We also know that Keegan has some off court things that are still affecting him. Players are human beings, not robots.
However, with Barnes returning to form, Keegan is the number 5 option, and he's struggling because he knows that he'll only get at max, around 7 or 8 attempts on most nights. When you're a rookie and you know your shots are limited, you know need to make them count, and sometimes that gets in you head and you start pressing, and missing. When asked about his play of late and the struggle, He said that he was trying to figure out when he should shoot, and how to put himself in the best position to get a shot. All the while trying to absorb an offense that's new to him, the speed of the game.
In other words he's trying to figure out how to fit in and contribute. This is perfectly normal for a rookie. Go back and find early stats on players like Kobe or Dirk and you'll find out that they didn't start by putting up all star stats. Quite the contrary! In Dirk's case, they're were fans just like you that wanted to run him out of town. What a mistake that would have been. We also know that Keegan has some off court things that are still affecting him. Players are human beings, not robots.
FWIW, I don't see a lot of folks piling on Keegan. Far as that goes, a saving grace is that most of us are very happy with what we've seen from the Kings, the last couple games notwithstanding. The combo of a struggling team and a struggling #4 overall pick - well, that'd probably get rough. Just as there was much more criticism of HB, and much more apocalyptic criticism (including from you), when his struggles coincided with the 0-4 start.
I doubt KM has a significant back issue. There'd be zero reason to play him under those circumstances. I think the simplest explanation is probably best: he's in a big shooting slump - and he'll get past it. The true weaknesses in his game - like his handles - were well known. The only unhappy surprise for me so far: his rebounding. 16 games played and 4 or fewer boards in 12 of them.
Shooting slump aside, I think the kid's still very much finding his way. And I don't doubt that he will.
I doubt KM has a significant back issue. There'd be zero reason to play him under those circumstances. I think the simplest explanation is probably best: he's in a big shooting slump - and he'll get past it. The true weaknesses in his game - like his handles - were well known. The only unhappy surprise for me so far: his rebounding. 16 games played and 4 or fewer boards in 12 of them.
Shooting slump aside, I think the kid's still very much finding his way. And I don't doubt that he will.
I was listening to C-Dave after the draft and he was telling a story about the pre-draft rally I thought was interesting. He went into it thinking everyone wanted Ivey based off social media. He said to the crowd “who wants Ivey?” A decent amount clapped and cheered. “Who wants Keegan Murray?” Crowd went nuts. The moral of the story is social media often doesn’t represent consensus on anything ranging from politics to sports.