The Tankathon Thread (since that's apparently what this is now)
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
I don't understand how people don't see Poku's insane talent/potential it's absolutely absurd talent wise he's the best potential ever out of Serbia (not saying he will ever come close to Jokic in reality). If you look at him physically just the way he's moving from rookie year to now the improvement is insane he's much sharper in his movements and the combination of ball handling/passing for a 7 footer is off the charts. He's got a lot of improvement to make (poor FG%, turnovers) but I would have picked him instead of Haliburton knowning Hali would be way better for the first 3-4 seasons.
The Pacers somehow lost to the Pistons despite Tyrese putting up 19/17 and the Pistons pretty much resting their entire rotation (Cade, Grant, CoJo, Bagley, Diallo were all out), which officially locks them in below us in lotto seeding (they're now also only two games back of the Pistons, who I am 100% sure will do everything in their power to lose their remaining three games of the year).
Portland only has two less wins than us and four games remaining but they're playing playoff teams aside from their next game against OkC, who are currently tied with the Pistons with 23 wins and will probably be doing everything in their power to not win another game this season as well.
Portland only has two less wins than us and four games remaining but they're playing playoff teams aside from their next game against OkC, who are currently tied with the Pistons with 23 wins and will probably be doing everything in their power to not win another game this season as well.
Key events heading into the draft:
2 - Kings losses or Laker wins to lock in the 7th seed
Shaedon Sharpe draft status announcement
draft lottery
chances are high we end up 7th at this point. We need a F type player badly. Our most likely spot is 8th with the following players going 1-7
Smith
Holmgren
Banchero
Ivy
Murray
Griffin
Mathurin
if Sharpe declares that extends the 6’ 6” plus wing depth to 8.
2 - Kings losses or Laker wins to lock in the 7th seed
Shaedon Sharpe draft status announcement
draft lottery
chances are high we end up 7th at this point. We need a F type player badly. Our most likely spot is 8th with the following players going 1-7
Smith
Holmgren
Banchero
Ivy
Murray
Griffin
Mathurin
if Sharpe declares that extends the 6’ 6” plus wing depth to 8.
Duren is starting to get mocked higher and higher though so there could be a chance a team in the top 6 winds up taking him to be their defensive anchor (OKC never drafts for need but if Presti thinks Duren's got star potential over a Murray or Griffin or Mathurin, I could see him pulling the trigger like he did when he "reached" on Giddy) and another wing/forward slips down into the 7-8-9 range.
Man I'd really hate to be in this spot. Really hoping we get one of Murray, Griffin, or Mathurin at the very least.
Assuming Sharpe doesn't declare, I'd likely have to look at...
At this point, I don't believe Davis has a 6'10" wingspan. I think he'll be closer to 6'8" (just based off watching him and having a sense for how long other players are on the court with him) but we'll see what the actual measurements say.
Agbaji actually participated in last year's combine and measured 6'4.5" w/o shoes, 6'10" wingspan, 8'7.5" standing reach, and 214 lbs. That's definitely on the smaller side from a SF perspective but his standing reach and weight are pretty solid. It will be interesting if he's grown in any of these measurements since last year. He doesn't really look 6'4-6'5" out there when I watch him. He looks 6'6"-6'7" but could be my biased eyes.
I'm hoping Eason at least has a 7'0" wingspan and a 8'10" standing reach. If he does, I'd consider him with this pick. That type of size, length, athleticism, defense, shooting potential, FT rate, etc. would be hard to pass up. In general, I'd really hate to add another guard to Fox, Mitchell, DiVincenzo, T. Davis, & Holiday, and I'm not convinced that Davis or Agbaji are able to play SF full time.
Assuming Sharpe doesn't declare, I'd likely have to look at...
- Johnny Davis
- Ochai Agbaji
- Tari Eason
At this point, I don't believe Davis has a 6'10" wingspan. I think he'll be closer to 6'8" (just based off watching him and having a sense for how long other players are on the court with him) but we'll see what the actual measurements say.
Agbaji actually participated in last year's combine and measured 6'4.5" w/o shoes, 6'10" wingspan, 8'7.5" standing reach, and 214 lbs. That's definitely on the smaller side from a SF perspective but his standing reach and weight are pretty solid. It will be interesting if he's grown in any of these measurements since last year. He doesn't really look 6'4-6'5" out there when I watch him. He looks 6'6"-6'7" but could be my biased eyes.
I'm hoping Eason at least has a 7'0" wingspan and a 8'10" standing reach. If he does, I'd consider him with this pick. That type of size, length, athleticism, defense, shooting potential, FT rate, etc. would be hard to pass up. In general, I'd really hate to add another guard to Fox, Mitchell, DiVincenzo, T. Davis, & Holiday, and I'm not convinced that Davis or Agbaji are able to play SF full time.
Or do we package Mitchell & #4 (Ivey) to trade up for Holmgren/Smith? Would likely need to be Detroit holding the pick as all the other teams have a young guard already on the roster. Whereas, Detroit could have a young core of Mitchell-Ivey-Cunningham-Bey.
PG - Fox
SG - DiVincenzo / Davis
SF - Barnes / Holiday / Harkless
PF - Holmgren / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Holmes / Len
PG - Fox
SG - DiVincenzo / Davis
SF - Barnes / Holiday / Harkless
PF - Holmgren / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Holmes / Len
I think that is fairly far fetched but I would do it in a heartbeat.
Not a fan of Ivey. He has the same problem as Fox/Hali/Davion. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective and I'm not convinced he's in that first tier regardless. The same way I'm not convinced Griffin is in the second tier. I'd take Griffin starting at 13 or so.
I think the Kings need to compound assets. This would be giving two assets up for one. Not saying it wouldn't work if the pick hit but the Kings are lacking talent all over the roster.
Its why I don't think Hali for Sabonis or Fox for some other good player will move the needle. I'd like to see them add to what they have and start building the way Memphis did.
If they traded back and could add lets say Eason and Duren instead of picking whoever is available at 7 or 8, would you do it?
Not a fan of Ivey. He has the same problem as Fox/Hali/Davion. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective and I'm not convinced he's in that first tier regardless. The same way I'm not convinced Griffin is in the second tier. I'd take Griffin starting at 13 or so.
I think the Kings need to compound assets. This would be giving two assets up for one. Not saying it wouldn't work if the pick hit but the Kings are lacking talent all over the roster.
Its why I don't think Hali for Sabonis or Fox for some other good player will move the needle. I'd like to see them add to what they have and start building the way Memphis did.
If they traded back and could add lets say Eason and Duren instead of picking whoever is available at 7 or 8, would you do it?
No. 13-14 becomes this giant jumbled mess where you could make an argument for like 15-20 guys. For me, there's some clearly defined tiers (assuming no Sharpe):
Tier 1:
Chet
Jabari
Paolo
Tier 2:
Ivey
Tier 3:
Davis
Murray
Mathurin
Griffin
Tier 4:
Eason
Duren
Sochan
Agbaji
TyTy
After that? It's all question marks. Dyson, Williams, Kessler, Brown, Branham, Liddell, Moore, Beauchamp, Jovic, Pat Baldwin, etc. Maybe if you could promise 2 prospects in that tier 4? But even then, I'd think I'd want the tier 3 wing or Davis.
Tier 1:
Chet
Jabari
Paolo
Tier 2:
Ivey
Tier 3:
Davis
Murray
Mathurin
Griffin
Tier 4:
Eason
Duren
Sochan
Agbaji
TyTy
After that? It's all question marks. Dyson, Williams, Kessler, Brown, Branham, Liddell, Moore, Beauchamp, Jovic, Pat Baldwin, etc. Maybe if you could promise 2 prospects in that tier 4? But even then, I'd think I'd want the tier 3 wing or Davis.
If those top 7 are gone, I likely would consider doing that trade for Eason (not Duren). If somehow we could end up with two of...
...I'd be pretty satisfied.
I think the only team where this could work though is San Antonio where we'd trade #7 for #9 & #20. I'd be shocked if Eason or Agbaji last until #20 and I'm skeptical Brown and Liddell would be there as well so not sure I'd pull the trigger. It would have to be something like...
SAC Gets: #9 & mid 1st
SAC Gives: #7 & #36
SAS Gets: #7 & #36
SAS Gives: #9, #20, & #26
Team X Gets: #20 & #26
Team X Gives: mid 1st
- Tari Eason
- Ochai Agbaji
- Kendall Brown
- EJ Liddell
- Wendell Moore
...I'd be pretty satisfied.
I think the only team where this could work though is San Antonio where we'd trade #7 for #9 & #20. I'd be shocked if Eason or Agbaji last until #20 and I'm skeptical Brown and Liddell would be there as well so not sure I'd pull the trigger. It would have to be something like...
SAC Gets: #9 & mid 1st
SAC Gives: #7 & #36
SAS Gets: #7 & #36
SAS Gives: #9, #20, & #26
Team X Gets: #20 & #26
Team X Gives: mid 1st
Agbaji is rising up my board a ton. 6'5 with a 6'10 wingspan and NBA body; I think he'll be able to check NBA 3's without much of an issue. Doesn't have much (or any really) on-ball creation, but that's not really a huge issue on a team with Fox/Sabonis/Mitchell/DDV. The elite shooting, great off-ball movement, big time athleticism, projects as a + defender at the next level; and while he's a senior he's a "young senior" being 21 all this season.
He reminds me a lot of what people thought Ben McLemore should have been. Use his athleticism in transition and on defense extremely well and a lights-out elite shooter. Makes his money off-ball and as a C&S guy. Understands he's not an on-ball guy and doesn't try to be.
He reminds me a lot of what people thought Ben McLemore should have been. Use his athleticism in transition and on defense extremely well and a lights-out elite shooter. Makes his money off-ball and as a C&S guy. Understands he's not an on-ball guy and doesn't try to be.
I agree with your assessments of Ivey and Griffen. Ivey has the second best handle of the "top" players, but it's not elite. His defense is horrible. Dude fell on his ass against Saint Pete's and got lost so many times on defense, I just stopped watching him not that end. And he's not an elite, elite athlete either. The upside is there, but there's a deep downside as well.
As for Griffen, I saw him close to 10 times this year and he never popped. He's not an elite athlete either and while he does have a shot that should translate, it's not like it's elite either.
As for Griffen, I saw him close to 10 times this year and he never popped. He's not an elite athlete either and while he does have a shot that should translate, it's not like it's elite either.
Disagree on the shot, but I think what teams will have to decide is how much of this year is him getting his legs back after his injuries, or is this just the baseline athleticism for him now. Part of his appeal to me is if any of his insane high school bounce is still there at all. With the shot/NBA body, that'd be an exciting base of a player.
You listed 13 players there so you'd get the pick of 1 of them and 1 of the question mark guys.
If it was TyTy + a question mark then I would keep the pick but there's a lot of interesting players in this draft that could help.
The top guys have higher ceilings but you only get one shot and you if you whiff, then you wasted a lot of time. Dropping down you have lower ceilings but you have two shots at hitting and if you can hit on both of them, you've really upped your depth. Then again, you could also pick Justin Jackson and Giles and kick yourself for not selecting Donovan.
There are a lot of shooting concerns in this draft. Can Agbaji really shoot? He's been fairly inefficient until his senior year. His past FT percentages are concerning. Can Davis shoot or is he an inefficient volume chucker? Murray shot poorly last year, was good this year but his FT% is still so-so.
To me, Smith and Griffin are the only two guys I think are nearly guaranteed shooters.
Next tier would be Mathurin and Murray.
After that there's a lot of question marks. Look up Sindarius Thornwell and his numbers look mighty close to Agbaji's. I'm not sold on players that seem to figure it out their senior year.
I just feel like if I have to pick a player with questionable shooting, then I might as well trade down and get 2 players with questionable shooting (or that help in some other area of need) and hope at least one of them turns out.
If it was TyTy + a question mark then I would keep the pick but there's a lot of interesting players in this draft that could help.
The top guys have higher ceilings but you only get one shot and you if you whiff, then you wasted a lot of time. Dropping down you have lower ceilings but you have two shots at hitting and if you can hit on both of them, you've really upped your depth. Then again, you could also pick Justin Jackson and Giles and kick yourself for not selecting Donovan.
There are a lot of shooting concerns in this draft. Can Agbaji really shoot? He's been fairly inefficient until his senior year. His past FT percentages are concerning. Can Davis shoot or is he an inefficient volume chucker? Murray shot poorly last year, was good this year but his FT% is still so-so.
To me, Smith and Griffin are the only two guys I think are nearly guaranteed shooters.
Next tier would be Mathurin and Murray.
After that there's a lot of question marks. Look up Sindarius Thornwell and his numbers look mighty close to Agbaji's. I'm not sold on players that seem to figure it out their senior year.
I just feel like if I have to pick a player with questionable shooting, then I might as well trade down and get 2 players with questionable shooting (or that help in some other area of need) and hope at least one of them turns out.
If we don’t land 1/2 I’m pretty damn sure we gonna end up trading the pick for an already established player. Any of the guys outside of 1/2 won’t get into the playoffs next season. The 1/2 may not either but the improvement of the team overall will more likely be significant as they are both good fits next to Sabonis.
The injury may be a legit or a convenient excuse. There are plenty of beast looking high school athletes, who went to college and looked completely ordinary. Shabazz Muhammad was a do everything, win everything AAU baller. UCLA was expecting a beast athlete, but dude had average, at best, athleticism. I'm going with my eyes and what I see is an average athlete.
I think his shot has a solid chance of being elite but many of us thought Nesmith's would be as well and that hasn't panned out.
I don't see the athlete in Griffin either. He looks really stiff to me for a guy with his profile. I'm not a fan of his ability to get to the paint or finish in the paint. Looks like a standard catch and shoot guy who can possibly hold his own on defense against SGs and smaller SFs. I just don't see him being a game changer. He seems like he has a good BBIQ and he knows where to be and when to make the pass but he doesn't have the tools to really get the defense out of sorts to be able to use that IQ. He would fit great with an established team like GS or PHO.
If you're drafting him as a C&S guy, you'll probably get what you're thinking you'll get but he would need to develop skills he's never shown regularly to be anything more than that and I think the Kings need more than that to step forward.
I don't see the athlete in Griffin either. He looks really stiff to me for a guy with his profile. I'm not a fan of his ability to get to the paint or finish in the paint. Looks like a standard catch and shoot guy who can possibly hold his own on defense against SGs and smaller SFs. I just don't see him being a game changer. He seems like he has a good BBIQ and he knows where to be and when to make the pass but he doesn't have the tools to really get the defense out of sorts to be able to use that IQ. He would fit great with an established team like GS or PHO.
If you're drafting him as a C&S guy, you'll probably get what you're thinking you'll get but he would need to develop skills he's never shown regularly to be anything more than that and I think the Kings need more than that to step forward.
The Griffin defense was hit or miss, but there's certainly potential there for him to be a + defender. Has the right body archetype to be a valuable 3/4 flex defender. And in terms of fitting in with stars, I'd argue no one did a better job than Griffin in terms of playing his role within the team context and still being ridiculously effective despite playing with the most star-studded team in college basketball. He really wouldn't have to adjust his Duke play at all, coming in next to Fox/Sabonis/Mitchell. He's still so young too, not even turning 19 until August.
I've fallen on Griffin as the season has gone on, but he's still in my top 8.
I've fallen on Griffin as the season has gone on, but he's still in my top 8.
if you watch AJG’s high school highlights he was more way athletic and explosive. I would say 2 years of injuries made him a little timid to go full throttle and decided to make his year at Duke a rehab season of sorts. Also the kid was on a team full of early 1st round picks and his role at Duke was imo most likely not what he’s full capable of. The guy has an NBA body already, with a nice 3 pt shot, high ball IQ and is still a teenager. Lastly his role in Sac would be the same as Duke. Play off ball c&s 3. Definitely wouldn’t mind taking this kid
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The only concern I have with Murray is fit. Do the Kings have the shots for him in the offense as a PF? If not, then he'll play minutes based on his defense and he's probably going to struggle on switches early due to his lack of foot speed. If he goes to a team needing points he could have a shot at ROY production wise.