Barnes is more of a 4th/5th option on a good team but he isn't a player that hurts you. He will find a role on any well-coached team. I hope we're able to keep him at a lower salary when his current contract expires, probably as a super sub rather than a starter. I wouldn't be opposed to trading him either if an opportunity comes up but I don't think he has huge trade value. My preferred scenario is to upgrade the wing spots around Barnes rather than to move him to another team.
[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)
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Yeah, they don't need high usage guys. They need an athletic 3 and 4 that are able and willing to be physical and do the dirty work necessary to win: rebounding, getting loose balls, defending, including blocking shots and taking charges. All that "dirty" stuff is where the Kings are still lacking. They need a couple of guys who can do that and hit an open 3 pointer. The stat I'd like to see for this team is the 50-50 ball success rate. The eyeball test tells me that this team is horrible in that category and it also tells me that Barnes is very near the bottom in that area.
The Maloofs ruined the team I can't stand what Vivek did early but I feel Monte is steering us in the right direction. It's the two morons that got Karl in place though that wrecked the best coach we had since Rick though so not sure what he is going on about. The general lack of quality leadership got him one last NBA pay day after he lost it.
Im not sure what kind of super star teams you guys are talking about, but Barnes is pretty great as a 3rd option next to 2 stars (hopefully that's Fox/Sabonis). Super efficient, gives you elite spacing, has the ability to get to the FT line. Yeah he disappears sometimes, but that's why he's your 3rd guy; not the go-to or 2nd.
Let's math it out for a second:
17.3 PPG
63.2% TS
19.2% USG
10.7% TOV
10.6% AST
.530 FTr (massive for a non-elite option tbh.)
Let's go down the line where he "wouldn't" be a 3rd scoring option:
Suns-Booker the clear 1, but the rest of the team is pretty incredibly balanced. Cp3 and Ayton are good, but I think Barnes has actually been better than scoring than both the last 2 years. So anywhere from 2-4 on the best team in the league:
Warriors-Steph obviously, but once again gets pretty muddy
-Klay has not been good since coming back
-Barnes just straight been better than Wiggins too with his efficiency.
So once again, anywhere from 2-4 makes sense, especially if Klay doesn't return to form.
Grizzlies: Ja Morant obviously, but once AGAIN gets pretty muddy
Bane, JJJ are both pretty great compliments but I wouldn't call either just leaps and bounds ahead of Barnes. Numbers wouldn't either as Barnes is pretty far ahead of both. So 2-4 once again.
Jazz: Mitchell obviously, and yet again, we get muddy:
Bojan, Conley, Clarkson, Gobert. Once again, I don't know how you say he's behind all those guys this year with his numbers. Anywhere from 2-5 makes sense.
Mavericks: Luka obviously,
Here's where Barnes clearly would be the #2. Funny how that worked out, they'd love to get Barnes back.
Nuggets: Jokic obviously,
With Murray/MPJ out, Barnes would clearly slot in the #2 ahead of Gordon/Barton. You'd take healthy Murray and MPJ vs Barnes is pretty coin-flippy. So fully healthy, 3/4 option?
Twolves: KAT obviously,
Edwards/DAR aren't nearly as efficient, but have shown to handle a bigger USG role. Probably the first spot where he'd slot in as a 4th option next to stars.
Clippers: Not healthy, I think Barnes would be pretty close to their best offensive scorer. Maybe Reggie Jackson I guess over him? Norm Powell? I guess some preference, but can't say either Reggie or Norm are drastically ahead of Barnes. Obviously, he's behind healthy Kawhi/PG
Lakers: Slots clearly 3rd behind AD/Bron. Would be perfect compliment to them and the Lakers would kill to move Russ for him.
Pelicans: Slots behind Ingram and CJ. Do we include Zion? If not pretty coin-flippy between him and Jval. So 3rd/4th option.
2 very interesting things really stand out:
1. Barnes is really freaking good and we shouldn't underappreciate how elite he's been the last 2 years scoring/spacing
2. You need a lot of good offensive players to compete as well as a stand-out top 10 offensive player. Makes me want to go get a Malik Monk type in the off-season even more for better offensive depth.
Let's math it out for a second:
17.3 PPG
63.2% TS
19.2% USG
10.7% TOV
10.6% AST
.530 FTr (massive for a non-elite option tbh.)
Let's go down the line where he "wouldn't" be a 3rd scoring option:
Suns-Booker the clear 1, but the rest of the team is pretty incredibly balanced. Cp3 and Ayton are good, but I think Barnes has actually been better than scoring than both the last 2 years. So anywhere from 2-4 on the best team in the league:
Warriors-Steph obviously, but once again gets pretty muddy
-Klay has not been good since coming back
-Barnes just straight been better than Wiggins too with his efficiency.
So once again, anywhere from 2-4 makes sense, especially if Klay doesn't return to form.
Grizzlies: Ja Morant obviously, but once AGAIN gets pretty muddy
Bane, JJJ are both pretty great compliments but I wouldn't call either just leaps and bounds ahead of Barnes. Numbers wouldn't either as Barnes is pretty far ahead of both. So 2-4 once again.
Jazz: Mitchell obviously, and yet again, we get muddy:
Bojan, Conley, Clarkson, Gobert. Once again, I don't know how you say he's behind all those guys this year with his numbers. Anywhere from 2-5 makes sense.
Mavericks: Luka obviously,
Here's where Barnes clearly would be the #2. Funny how that worked out, they'd love to get Barnes back.
Nuggets: Jokic obviously,
With Murray/MPJ out, Barnes would clearly slot in the #2 ahead of Gordon/Barton. You'd take healthy Murray and MPJ vs Barnes is pretty coin-flippy. So fully healthy, 3/4 option?
Twolves: KAT obviously,
Edwards/DAR aren't nearly as efficient, but have shown to handle a bigger USG role. Probably the first spot where he'd slot in as a 4th option next to stars.
Clippers: Not healthy, I think Barnes would be pretty close to their best offensive scorer. Maybe Reggie Jackson I guess over him? Norm Powell? I guess some preference, but can't say either Reggie or Norm are drastically ahead of Barnes. Obviously, he's behind healthy Kawhi/PG
Lakers: Slots clearly 3rd behind AD/Bron. Would be perfect compliment to them and the Lakers would kill to move Russ for him.
Pelicans: Slots behind Ingram and CJ. Do we include Zion? If not pretty coin-flippy between him and Jval. So 3rd/4th option.
2 very interesting things really stand out:
1. Barnes is really freaking good and we shouldn't underappreciate how elite he's been the last 2 years scoring/spacing
2. You need a lot of good offensive players to compete as well as a stand-out top 10 offensive player. Makes me want to go get a Malik Monk type in the off-season even more for better offensive depth.
The Kings need better shooting, but the issue isn’t better offense. Outside of DDV, the rebounding percentage of their guards and wings are abysmal. Extrapolate that to other hustle, two way related play and there’s one of your answers for why does this team lose so much.
And, who’s this top ten scorer that you’re referring to? The Kings haven’t had an elite scorer since Mitch.
And, who’s this top ten scorer that you’re referring to? The Kings haven’t had an elite scorer since Mitch.
Where did I say the Kings have a top 10 scorer? I said my observation from looking at all the playoff teams is you need that top 10-15 guy in addition to some really good supporting offensive talent in order to compete. My whole post was about Barnes being a really effective 3rd option and he'd maintain that role on pretty much every team in the West. I haven't looked at the East, but I assume it'll be pretty similar. Not everything is about Fox.
I beg you to actually read what I say lol. It's getting old.
I beg you to actually read what I say lol. It's getting old.
Yeah it's interesting. Fox is definitely a few rungs lower as a 1 (potentially not if he keeps smoking the way he has the last 10 games), but Sabonis as a #2 is certainly a few tiers higher. So if we just throw out arbitrary numbers where say Fox/Sabonis are the 24th/25th best offensive players, is that enough to make up the ground that someone in the top 5 (Jokic/Luka/KD/Steph/Giannis) have?
I think that's the gamble McNair made anyway. Almost trying to create elite #1 production in the aggregate with Fox/Sabonis.
I think that's the gamble McNair made anyway. Almost trying to create elite #1 production in the aggregate with Fox/Sabonis.
Sabonis (#8 in NBA) and Barnes (#10 in NBA) are the only players from the Kings that have TS% > 60 with good usage. Barnes is a bit inconsistent but he is pretty efficient. Unless we are moving up significantly in the talent level, there's no benefit in trading Barnes especially when he plays such a key position on the floor.
I wasn't trashing him. The point of my post is that we should try to keep him because he's a valuable rotation player, whether he's still starting here in 2 years or not. I've been watching Barnes play since High School -- he was even the guy I wanted us to draft back in 2012 with the 5th pick. But I'm also just trying to be realistic about what we have in this core group. Barnes has always been talented enough to be a #2 guy if he brought it every night but he's in his 11th season and he's never averaged 20ppg even when he was a focal point of the offense in Dallas. After his current contract ends he'll be in his 30s when age-related decline starts to become a possibility.
You can't just look at his efficiency and say he needs to shoot more than Fox because he routinely passes up shots even when he's open. It's just part of his makeup. If we can acquire at least another 2 starting caliber wings over the next couple of years Barnes would be a perfect veteran to help guide younger players along and he can also pick up the slack when someone else is slumping without needing to carry a big chunk of the offense every night. I think that's an ideal role for him.
Some of the people on this forum have a really extreme view about starters vs. bench players. A super sub is still going to get near starter minutes, especially if they can play multiple positions like Barnes can. Andre Igoudala was a 4th or 5th option in GS when he won his Finals MVP award. Then he moved to the bench. He was still an essential part of those championship runs whenever he was on the floor. The difference between a 3rd option scorer and a 4th option scorer in my mind isn't ability/talent it's just consistency. And part of the reason our team has been so bad for so long is that we keep clearing the decks for rookies who don't really pan out and then filling the back end of the rotation with marginal NBA talent. Unless we're planning on going full Tom Thibodeau and running the starters into the ground season after season, the backup positions will be getting regular minutes -- and those are minutes we need to win.
You can't just look at his efficiency and say he needs to shoot more than Fox because he routinely passes up shots even when he's open. It's just part of his makeup. If we can acquire at least another 2 starting caliber wings over the next couple of years Barnes would be a perfect veteran to help guide younger players along and he can also pick up the slack when someone else is slumping without needing to carry a big chunk of the offense every night. I think that's an ideal role for him.
Some of the people on this forum have a really extreme view about starters vs. bench players. A super sub is still going to get near starter minutes, especially if they can play multiple positions like Barnes can. Andre Igoudala was a 4th or 5th option in GS when he won his Finals MVP award. Then he moved to the bench. He was still an essential part of those championship runs whenever he was on the floor. The difference between a 3rd option scorer and a 4th option scorer in my mind isn't ability/talent it's just consistency. And part of the reason our team has been so bad for so long is that we keep clearing the decks for rookies who don't really pan out and then filling the back end of the rotation with marginal NBA talent. Unless we're planning on going full Tom Thibodeau and running the starters into the ground season after season, the backup positions will be getting regular minutes -- and those are minutes we need to win.
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At 20mill per season for a 4th/5th option that's not elite at anything other than scoring (he's not elite at scoring but can score ok), that's hurting your team 100%. Guys in that role unless they're Draymond Green should he making Holmes money. Jeff Green on minimum > Barnes on 20mil. My problem with Fox/Barnes/Buddy (when he was here) was not they could not play but were simply not worth the money they were given making it way harder than it should be to create a decent functioning team
Sure. Which is why I said that I hope we can re-sign him for slightly less than he's making now. I'm hoping for something around $16-18 million per for 4 years. The salary cap does go up every year though so even a $20 million salary 5 years from now won't be unreasonable for your best bench player-- it'll probably be the equivalent of $14 million relative to the current cap.
Realistic odds LeBron James coming to Sacramento Kings 2024?
https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2022/03/09/kings-good-odds-to-land-lebron-in-2024/
https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2022/03/09/kings-good-odds-to-land-lebron-in-2024/
De'Aaron Fox stats 2021 (of this season): 20.2 pts 5.1 ast 3.1 trb 44.5% fg 25.2% 3pt 73.7% ft (34.0 mpg)
Fox 2022: 26.0 pts 5.8 ast 4.1 trb 51% fg 31.4% 3pt 74.3% ft (36.5 mpg)
Fox since Feb 2022: 27.9 pts 6.2 ast 4.3 trb 51.8% fg 35.7% 3pt 72.4% ft (38.2 mpg)
And those 2022 numbers will go up since basketball reference doesn't have tonight's numbers in his gamelog yet. 2 seasons in a row with end-of-season Fox putting up all-star numbers
Fox 2022: 26.0 pts 5.8 ast 4.1 trb 51% fg 31.4% 3pt 74.3% ft (36.5 mpg)
Fox since Feb 2022: 27.9 pts 6.2 ast 4.3 trb 51.8% fg 35.7% 3pt 72.4% ft (38.2 mpg)
And those 2022 numbers will go up since basketball reference doesn't have tonight's numbers in his gamelog yet. 2 seasons in a row with end-of-season Fox putting up all-star numbers
