What to do with Bagley?
- Thread starter Capt. Factorial
- Start date
I don't want to go through this "process" again. We'll continue to waste draft picks until we get a good coach and system in place.
During Geoff/Rick's time, virtually every draft pick was a success. Starting 1995, these were our first round picks
95: Corliss Williamson
96: Peja
97: Tariq Abdul Wahad (Played only two seasons with us)
98: Jason Williams
99: No pick
00: Hedo
01: Gerald Wallace
02: Dan Dickau (Traded to Atlanta)
03: No pick
04: Kevin Martin
05: Cisco
06: Quincy Douby
Jason Williams was the highest at 7. There were 3 other lottery picks (Corliss, Peja, Wahad), while all others were late first rounders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_Kings_draft_history
Needless to say, we did exceedingly well with these picks, scoring with virtually every pick. There can be quibbles about picks (Jason at 7 was not the right pick in retrospect given the careers Dirk and Paul Pierce had, but he was still not a bust, and really helped the team during one phase).
Now compare the performance of the picks since Rick left the organization. We have been consistently picking in the lottery, and some of the initial picks were made by Geoff, who is credited (rightly) for the earlier success. It is important to note though, that we have had virtually no success with our high draft picks since Rick left. Even Cisco and Quincy saw little time with him. Perhaps their career would have been better had they played under him.
Every GM/organization will have hits/misses with picks. That's okay. However, it would be rare to see such exemplary success immediately followed by such extreme level of ineptitude. I think our only few successes have been DMC, IT, and Whiteside. None of the other players we drafted since Rick left have had success with us or any other organization. The book is still open on guys like Fox, Hali, and Davion of course. Fox has had moments, but has still to justify his high draft position and salary.
And it's not just the picks. The vets we hired at that time turned in impressive performance. Remember Jim Jackson? IIRC, he wasn't even playing in the league when we called him due to a spate of injuries, and he turned in an amazing performance. Guys like Bobby, Doug, Brad, all played some of their best ball with us. Contrast that with now, where we are constantly wondering why guys are underperforming with us. I think that except Holmes (and perhaps Shump for his leadership), we have not had players who came in and gave inspired performances.
So, tanking for high draft picks is not much of a solution, IMHO. Even if we draft well, we need to develop those picks into good players which will not happen till we get a solid coach and system in place. Is Gentry the right choice, or Bobby/Becky/some other names being mentioned, or someone who will emerge later. Hopefully Monte knows. However, such extreme incompetence shows a dysfunctional organization, the blame for which lies with Vivek more than anyone. Ultimately, he has to right the ship. Easier said than done though.
During Geoff/Rick's time, virtually every draft pick was a success. Starting 1995, these were our first round picks
95: Corliss Williamson
96: Peja
97: Tariq Abdul Wahad (Played only two seasons with us)
98: Jason Williams
99: No pick
00: Hedo
01: Gerald Wallace
02: Dan Dickau (Traded to Atlanta)
03: No pick
04: Kevin Martin
05: Cisco
06: Quincy Douby
Jason Williams was the highest at 7. There were 3 other lottery picks (Corliss, Peja, Wahad), while all others were late first rounders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_Kings_draft_history
Needless to say, we did exceedingly well with these picks, scoring with virtually every pick. There can be quibbles about picks (Jason at 7 was not the right pick in retrospect given the careers Dirk and Paul Pierce had, but he was still not a bust, and really helped the team during one phase).
Now compare the performance of the picks since Rick left the organization. We have been consistently picking in the lottery, and some of the initial picks were made by Geoff, who is credited (rightly) for the earlier success. It is important to note though, that we have had virtually no success with our high draft picks since Rick left. Even Cisco and Quincy saw little time with him. Perhaps their career would have been better had they played under him.
Every GM/organization will have hits/misses with picks. That's okay. However, it would be rare to see such exemplary success immediately followed by such extreme level of ineptitude. I think our only few successes have been DMC, IT, and Whiteside. None of the other players we drafted since Rick left have had success with us or any other organization. The book is still open on guys like Fox, Hali, and Davion of course. Fox has had moments, but has still to justify his high draft position and salary.
And it's not just the picks. The vets we hired at that time turned in impressive performance. Remember Jim Jackson? IIRC, he wasn't even playing in the league when we called him due to a spate of injuries, and he turned in an amazing performance. Guys like Bobby, Doug, Brad, all played some of their best ball with us. Contrast that with now, where we are constantly wondering why guys are underperforming with us. I think that except Holmes (and perhaps Shump for his leadership), we have not had players who came in and gave inspired performances.
So, tanking for high draft picks is not much of a solution, IMHO. Even if we draft well, we need to develop those picks into good players which will not happen till we get a solid coach and system in place. Is Gentry the right choice, or Bobby/Becky/some other names being mentioned, or someone who will emerge later. Hopefully Monte knows. However, such extreme incompetence shows a dysfunctional organization, the blame for which lies with Vivek more than anyone. Ultimately, he has to right the ship. Easier said than done though.
yep the time to do this trade was after summer league when you had a clear idea what you had in Mitchell. But as typical with Monte he waits too long and the opportunity is gone. Dude is bad as Vlade but horrible in a different dimension. Too bad they couldn’t work together. As a single entity, they would be a competent GM.
the league is different and a lot of Jeff’s success was being ahead on Europeans entering the league. Two of his best picks were foreign born players. That doesn’t exist anymore. You aren’t getting Peja, Giannis, or Jokic late in the draft. Luka went high for a reason. Giddey failed to fall to us for a reason. Teams are adjusting.
Even if we once drafted well, the odds are still very clear with the fact that its so much more likely to draft top level talent top 3 compared to 7-10. Its a big statistical difference so if the objective is to get top level talent via draft, then you just have to accept those statistical facts and consider them while forming your strategy moving forward.
Agreed. I think his talent/draft acquisition has been phenomenal. One of Vlade's big downfalls was he never invested in 2nd round/UDFA guys that could potentially spike and become rotation players down the line. McNair has made that a priority where we now have a pretty decent farm system (King, Metu, Woodard, Ramsey, Queta) of guys who could be something someday. And obviously, I think he's nailed the first round picks getting 2 starters (at a minimum) in Hali/Mitchell with some upside for more.
Moving forward is where he'll make his cheese. He doesn't have Walton not being his coach as a fall-back anymore and it's clear the Vlade core is pretty broken with nearly 2+ seasons of Fox/Buddy/Barnes/Holmes just not clicking for whatever reason and failing to win games. So we'll see if he thinks this core was just being held back by the coach and he ties all his eggs to them, or if we shift into a firesale and expediate a quick rebuild. All 4 of them should get you some solid assets with everyone rebuilding their value pretty solidly over the past year.
Moving forward is where he'll make his cheese. He doesn't have Walton not being his coach as a fall-back anymore and it's clear the Vlade core is pretty broken with nearly 2+ seasons of Fox/Buddy/Barnes/Holmes just not clicking for whatever reason and failing to win games. So we'll see if he thinks this core was just being held back by the coach and he ties all his eggs to them, or if we shift into a firesale and expediate a quick rebuild. All 4 of them should get you some solid assets with everyone rebuilding their value pretty solidly over the past year.
It has been pointed out that teams like the Blazers and Warriors have consistently picked behind us during the drought, one is a realistic option and the other is a dream scenario. Blazers also blew their best pick and completely tore down and rebuilt with only a few down years.
That said, without going full process, this should be a selling year and we should focus on talent evaluation not Ws.
Should have been last year, but we are where we are. Although I think that the benefit of this year is that Buddy's value should be up and Fox should be on the table.
That said, without going full process, this should be a selling year and we should focus on talent evaluation not Ws.
Should have been last year, but we are where we are. Although I think that the benefit of this year is that Buddy's value should be up and Fox should be on the table.
It wasn't about our accountant. Did you read the "reports"?
It's that other teams are interested in trading for Bagley if his QO can be kept down to the lower figure, ie if he has low minutes and has gone half the season without starting, his deadline value goes way up.
I think it's all made up BS, but at least understand what is being argued. It's not about saving bucks. It's about how to get the most out of him in trade return.
It's that other teams are interested in trading for Bagley if his QO can be kept down to the lower figure, ie if he has low minutes and has gone half the season without starting, his deadline value goes way up.
I think it's all made up BS, but at least understand what is being argued. It's not about saving bucks. It's about how to get the most out of him in trade return.
Too soon to make a call either way on Monte as far as I’m concerned, but aside from solid drafting he certainly hasn’t wowed me.
Then you have the Vivek problem. Who knows how much he still influences decisions, both directly via meddling, and indirectly via his infatuation with having too many cooks in the FOs kitchen (Dumars).
Just the fact that McNair can draft makes me open to a tank though. You couldn’t even bet on that in the Vlade days, since he was bottom of the barrel in terms of talent scouting (and everything really).
Then you have the Vivek problem. Who knows how much he still influences decisions, both directly via meddling, and indirectly via his infatuation with having too many cooks in the FOs kitchen (Dumars).
Just the fact that McNair can draft makes me open to a tank though. You couldn’t even bet on that in the Vlade days, since he was bottom of the barrel in terms of talent scouting (and everything really).