Tokyo Olympics: The Thread (OPEN SPOILERS, YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!!!)
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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USAB Women's head coach Dawn Staley announces that she will be stepping down as NT head coach, during the post-game press conference. States that she will be recommending Minnesota Lynx head coach Cheryl Reeve to be her successor.
Staley quitting after one Olympics was somewhat surprising, but is also a move that seems to be popular in women's basketball circles, as her coaching during the Olympics was... not well received.
Staley quitting after one Olympics was somewhat surprising, but is also a move that seems to be popular in women's basketball circles, as her coaching during the Olympics was... not well received.
Her rotations, moreso than anything else: the single-biggest advantage that USAB has over the rest of the world is depth, but you wouldn't know it by how Staley coached. She went with what was basically an eight-player rotation, for most of the Olympics. Bird and Taurasi were getting cooked on defense, for the entire tournament, and yet Staley kept her two best perimeter defenders (Ariel Atkins and Napheesa Collier) nailed to the bench. If they'd had to play Australia at full strength, they probably would have lost.
Lots of media talking heads condemning NBC coverage of Tokyo Olympics. I choose not to be too critical. Just the fact 2020 games held at all something of a miracle after canceled last summer. I thought Mike Tirico did admirable job as TV host replacing something of a legend Bob Costas. The multiple TV channels and streaming platforms somewhat disjointed, hard to follow at times but summer games so gigantic not sure much better could have been in the offing - especially held on other side of the world. Winter games smaller and easier to streamline, at least hopefully the case in Beijing only six months from start. Paris 2024 might be the first Olympics to have all the live events only pay-per-view or so that is the talk. Like they don't make enough billions from commercial ads and endorsements to carry the freight in spades! Merci Tokyo! Bonjour Paris!
My biggest issue was that Peacock and the rest of NBC Sports live in separate spaces and so there was no one true single hub. Once I got the NBC Sports channel (which I thought had been decommissioned) reinstalled I was able to see most events. The only other real tough part was figuring out what time live events were to watch and they definitely could have published and made those schedules much easier. Sometimes it would say a time but not start for an hour. Othertimes you'd tune in at the published time and the event was 3/4 finished. But at least it was easy to re-watch even if it wasn't live and you knew the result, takes the fun out but still doable.
Kelsey Plum got off to a lackluster start to her WNBA career, then she took a jump, in her third season. Then she got injured, and missed last season, and now she's working her way back. As far as whether she chose to be play 3x3, or was she not good enough for 5x5, I think that you're starting from a false premise: it's not either/or. Unlike with 5x5, there's an actual ranking system for 3x3, and you have to be ranked, in order to be eligible for a team, so you definitely have to choose to play 3x3. But that doesn't preclude her from playing 5x5, in the future.
The other thing that needs to be acknowledged is that the women's senior team is kind of an insular community. You spoke, during the Olympics, about how much you wished that the men's team had more continuity, but an argument could be made that the women's team overcorrects, in the other direction (at least, IMO), to the point of keeping players around too long. We've already lost the best point guard in the world to Hungary (Courtney Vandersloot, in case you didn't know), a country that isn't even ranked, in part because she got sick of waiting on Sue Bird to be ready to "pass the torch" on the senior team. Becky Hammon got herself a Russian passport, and played for their national team, for the same reason.
Point being, just because a player isn't on the 5x5 team. doesn't mean that they're not good enough: the team that just won the gold medal didn't have the twelve-best American-born players on it, and that wasn't because they had players turning them down, either. Have you heard anything about the Ogwumike controversy?
The other thing that needs to be acknowledged is that the women's senior team is kind of an insular community. You spoke, during the Olympics, about how much you wished that the men's team had more continuity, but an argument could be made that the women's team overcorrects, in the other direction (at least, IMO), to the point of keeping players around too long. We've already lost the best point guard in the world to Hungary (Courtney Vandersloot, in case you didn't know), a country that isn't even ranked, in part because she got sick of waiting on Sue Bird to be ready to "pass the torch" on the senior team. Becky Hammon got herself a Russian passport, and played for their national team, for the same reason.
Point being, just because a player isn't on the 5x5 team. doesn't mean that they're not good enough: the team that just won the gold medal didn't have the twelve-best American-born players on it, and that wasn't because they had players turning them down, either. Have you heard anything about the Ogwumike controversy?
Thanks Slim, I just don't follow the WNBA much and was genuinely curious about where 3x3 falls. It seems like a bit of a novelty to me still, and the fact that FIBA seemed to take steps to keep the US Men's team out of the tournament. And yes, I'm aware about the continuity of the women's team, although I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that they legitimately compete for their spots every cycle.
For the men's team while I did mention I was more concerned about a bigger vision than just throwing together all star teams that didn't expressly mean I wanted players being Team USA for life, in fact I was calling for emerging stars to get more run with a handful of senior leaders. I guess it's clear that the all star model may still have some life though.
I was totally unaware that the women's team had players going dual national roles just to play on a national team. Is it financially motivated, or are they just that eager to compete on a world stage? I've not followed Ogwumike's saga - in general I don't love the way that dual nationalities sometimes get used in the Olympics but with FIBA trying to grow the game outside the USA I don't understand why if IOC rules would have allowed her to switch she was denied?
For the men's team while I did mention I was more concerned about a bigger vision than just throwing together all star teams that didn't expressly mean I wanted players being Team USA for life, in fact I was calling for emerging stars to get more run with a handful of senior leaders. I guess it's clear that the all star model may still have some life though.
I was totally unaware that the women's team had players going dual national roles just to play on a national team. Is it financially motivated, or are they just that eager to compete on a world stage? I've not followed Ogwumike's saga - in general I don't love the way that dual nationalities sometimes get used in the Olympics but with FIBA trying to grow the game outside the USA I don't understand why if IOC rules would have allowed her to switch she was denied?
That wasn't it, at all. Like I said, eligibility for Olympic 3x3 is determined by a ranking system. The ranking system is heavily weighted towards how many international 3x3 games you've played. USAB got into 3x3 super-late, and didn't have enough players high enough in the ranking system to qualify a men's team. Women's 3x3 was about as late as the men but, because there are fewer countries fielding women's sports, the "line" was shorter.
This is exactly how they've been doing it on the women's side and, like I said, this can backfire, when you've got young talent waiting in the wings, but the veterans don't want to give up their spot. Like, no disrespect to Argentina or Luis Scola, but it's one thing to play for your NT in the Olympics five times, because your country hasn't developed a player good enough to replace you, it's quite another when there's young talent chomping at the bit to get in, but you're just not willing to step aside.
Bit of both: Vandersloot left the USAB pipeline, because she was tired of waiting on Bird to step down. She went to Hungary, specifically, because they showed her The Bag™.
Ironically, Nneka Ogwumike has done things exactly the way that you have indicated that you want them to do it: she made a commitment to USAB, starting with playing for the U17 team. Since then, she's gone to every practice, every training session, she's participated in international competitions for USAB... every time they've called, she's answered. She even signed a contract in 2019, passing up on a chance to make money by playing for other countries, in order to commit to playing for USAB, as one of their core designated players. And then, when it came time to select the Olympic team, USAB said, "Nah." Nneka and her sisters are first-generation Americans: both their parents were born in Nigeria and, AFAIK, she possesses dual citizenship, so when she was denied an opportunity to play for Team USA at the Olympics (for the third straight time), she requested to be released from USAB, and allowed to compete for Nigeria. USAB said, "fine," which is an indication that they never seriously considered her for the senior team, but FIBA overruled them, saying that Nneka had played too many games for USAB to be allowed to switch.
Nneka is a six-time All-Star, four times All-WNBA, five times All-Defense, and was named MVP of the WNBA in 2016. She is literally the only former MVP of the league that has never played in a game at the Olympics. She's filed an appeal of FIBA's ruling with the Court of Arbitration in Sports but, best-case scenario is that she will be allowed to compete for Nigeria in Paris. Nneka Ogwumike will be 35 in 2024.
This is exactly how they've been doing it on the women's side and, like I said, this can backfire, when you've got young talent waiting in the wings, but the veterans don't want to give up their spot. Like, no disrespect to Argentina or Luis Scola, but it's one thing to play for your NT in the Olympics five times, because your country hasn't developed a player good enough to replace you, it's quite another when there's young talent chomping at the bit to get in, but you're just not willing to step aside.
Bit of both: Vandersloot left the USAB pipeline, because she was tired of waiting on Bird to step down. She went to Hungary, specifically, because they showed her The Bag™.
Ironically, Nneka Ogwumike has done things exactly the way that you have indicated that you want them to do it: she made a commitment to USAB, starting with playing for the U17 team. Since then, she's gone to every practice, every training session, she's participated in international competitions for USAB... every time they've called, she's answered. She even signed a contract in 2019, passing up on a chance to make money by playing for other countries, in order to commit to playing for USAB, as one of their core designated players. And then, when it came time to select the Olympic team, USAB said, "Nah." Nneka and her sisters are first-generation Americans: both their parents were born in Nigeria and, AFAIK, she possesses dual citizenship, so when she was denied an opportunity to play for Team USA at the Olympics (for the third straight time), she requested to be released from USAB, and allowed to compete for Nigeria. USAB said, "fine," which is an indication that they never seriously considered her for the senior team, but FIBA overruled them, saying that Nneka had played too many games for USAB to be allowed to switch.
Nneka is a six-time All-Star, four times All-WNBA, five times All-Defense, and was named MVP of the WNBA in 2016. She is literally the only former MVP of the league that has never played in a game at the Olympics. She's filed an appeal of FIBA's ruling with the Court of Arbitration in Sports but, best-case scenario is that she will be allowed to compete for Nigeria in Paris. Nneka Ogwumike will be 35 in 2024.
Is it wrong that their 2019 win should have qualified them, or that the rules were fudged so only a set # of nations with 5 man teams could qualify despite world ranking though? I don't care, like I said it's kind of a novelty to me and the sportcourt colored like a playground reinforces that a bit. I did enjoy watching the women's team play though.
After two days, China has taken the lead in both Gold Medal and overall medal count. USA is tied for seventh in Gold Medals, tied for ninth overall.
They got on the board in the pool, with Gia Pergolini winning the women's 100m backstroke, with a new Paralympic World Record, as well as Anastasia Pagonis, who also set a Paralympic World Record, in winning the women's 400m freestyle.
They got on the board in the pool, with Gia Pergolini winning the women's 100m backstroke, with a new Paralympic World Record, as well as Anastasia Pagonis, who also set a Paralympic World Record, in winning the women's 400m freestyle.
China continues to put more distance between themselves and the field, through three days of competition, at the Paralympics. USA has moved up into tie for fifth in Gold Medals, tied for eighth overall.
- Nick Mayhugh won the men's 100m (Class T37: Cerebral Palsy), setting a Paralympic World Record.
- Roxanne Trunnell (riding Dolton) wins USA's first Paralympic Equestrian Gold Medal since 1996, in Dressage (Grade 1). Roxanne had aspirations of competing in the Olympics as an able-bodied equestrian, but developed cerebellar ataxia, after a virus-induced stroke, in 2009.
- Robert Griswold won the men's 100m backstroke (Class S8: Cerebral Palsy), setting a Paralympic World Record.
- Mallory Weggmann won the women's 200m individual Medley (Class SM7: Lower Body Impairment). Weggmann was rendered paraplegic following complications from a medical procedure. She has since regained partial mobility in her lower extremities.
It's about time to call the fight: China has about lapped the field, both in Gold Medals, and overall medal count. They have more than thirty medals more than second place Great Britain. They have more Gold Medals than USA has total medals. For perspective, USA is in fourth place for Gold Medals, with 11, and is currently in sole possession of seventh for overall medals, with 22.
- Susannah Scaroni wins the women's 5000m (Class T54: Paraplegia), setting a Paralympics record. Susannah has been a paraplegic since age 5, due to injuries sustained in an auto accident.
- Jessica Long wins her second medal, and first Gold at the Tokyo Paralympics, winning the women's 200m individual medley (Class SM8: Limb Deficiency). Long was born with fibular hemimelia, and had to have her legs amputated below the knees, when she was only eighteen months old.
- She was born in Russia, and adopted by an American family, after she was abandoned at an orphanage in Siberia. If you watched any of the 2020 Olympics on NBC, you probably saw an abbreviated adaptation of her story, in a Toyota ad.
- Ian Seidenfeld wins Gold in men's table tennis (Class 6: Standing, other impairments). Ian was born with pseudoachondroplasia, and is of short stature.
- Allysa Seely wins the women's triathlon (Class PTS2: Lower Body Impairment). Allysa had her left leg amputated below the knee, when she was 25, due to complications from a series of ailments.
- Brad Snyder (with guide Greg Billington) wins the men's triathlon (Class PTV1: Visual impairment). Snyder is a former Navy EOD officer, who lost his sight in Afghanistan in 2011, after stepping on an IED. Lieutenant Snyder previously competed at the 2012 and 2016 Paralympics, winning Gold Medals, as a swimmer.
China continues to dominate the field, through five days of competition: They have more Gold Medals than second and third place, combined. And, in terms of overall medals, there is a bigger discrepancy between China and second-place Great Britain than there is between second place and eleventh-place Spain. USA, which picked up four more Gold Medals on Day 5, is considered to be in third place, by virtue of a silver medal tiebreaker over ROC, even though ROC has more total medals.
- Roderick Townsend wins the men's High Jump (Class T47: Upper Body impairment), setting a Paralympic World Record in the process. Roderick was born breach, and had to have his collarbone broken and right shoulder dislocated during birth, in order to keep from being strangled to death on his umbilical cord. This caused permanent nerve damage that got progressively worse, to the point of rendering Roderick unable to compete against able-bodied athletes.
- Daniel Romanchuk wins the men's 400m (Class T54: Lower Body impairment). Daniel was born with spidal bifida.
- McKenzie Coan wins the women's 400m freestyle (Class S7: Spinal impairment). McKenzie was born with osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease)
- Kendall Gretsch wins the women's triathlon (Class PTWC2: Wheelchair users - Least impaired). Kendall was born with spina bifida. She has previously won Gold Medals in biathlon at the 2018 Winter Paralympics; this is her first Summer Paralympics.
As China's lead grows, USA has fallen back into fourth place, with nineteen Gold Medals, and sole possession of fifth overall.
- Roxanne Trunnell (riding Dolton) wins her second medal at the Tokyo Paralympics, this time Gold in Individual Dressage (Grade I).
- Mallory Weggemann wins her second Gold Medal at the Tokyo Paralympics, this one in the women's 100m backstroke (Class S7), with a Paralympic record.
- Hanna Aspden wins the women's 100m backstroke (Class S9: Severe Lower Body impairment). Hannah was born with congenital hip disarticulation, as has no left leg.