NBA Lottery Thread
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Im still not sold on trading Fox - but if Ben Simmons is on the table you gotta think about it. The latest Lowe podcast is awesome - Haliburton is on and is amazing. One of the hosts mentioned that both Giannis and Simmons work really well as small ball centers in today’s NBA. I think it’s easier to build a team around Simmons than Fox - but I also think if the Kings can find good compliments to Fox and Hali, the sky is the limit.
Per 36 is a useless metric for guys that don't receive significant playing time. Either way I would never do that trade you proposed. Sumner may wind up being a solid piece, or even more, but right now he is completely unproven and unworthy of being a focal point of a trade involving a top 10 pick in a deep draft class. It would blow my mind if our front office, made up of supposedly intelligent and basketball savvy experts, even considered a trade like that.
Thanks for the heads up. Will check out the podcast.
In terms of who’s easiest to build around, I’d say Hali, Simmons, than Fox. Hali’s IQ, size, and game speed allows him to pretty much play with anyone. Simmons is a unicorn. Fox really only knows one speed. Need dudes who can run with him. Really need him to watch CP3 film. For all his gifts, he has a ways to go in the makes his teammates better department.
In terms of who’s easiest to build around, I’d say Hali, Simmons, than Fox. Hali’s IQ, size, and game speed allows him to pretty much play with anyone. Simmons is a unicorn. Fox really only knows one speed. Need dudes who can run with him. Really need him to watch CP3 film. For all his gifts, he has a ways to go in the makes his teammates better department.
You got me. Everyone else here who can read and comprehend what I posted was actually wrong. And the only who was wrong from the beginning and now arguing what I’m “implying” even though I posted twice what I meant, is actually right. 
maybe if I use numbers. The pacers want to trade $5 to the sixers for $10. Sixers decline. You say pacers can offer to trade that $5 because they have two $1. I’m saying pacers can offer $5 cuz they’re getting $10 in return and no one cares about 2 measly dollar bills cuz they have nothing to do with the trade. FYI $=pg.
maybe if I use numbers. The pacers want to trade $5 to the sixers for $10. Sixers decline. You say pacers can offer to trade that $5 because they have two $1. I’m saying pacers can offer $5 cuz they’re getting $10 in return and no one cares about 2 measly dollar bills cuz they have nothing to do with the trade. FYI $=pg.
You got me. Everyone else here who can read and comprehend what I posted was actually wrong. And the only who was wrong from the beginning and now arguing what I’m “implying” even though I posted twice what I meant, is actually right.
maybe if I use numbers. The pacers want to trade $5 to the sixers for $10. Sixers decline. You say pacers can offer to trade that $5 because they have two $1. I’m saying pacers can offer $5 cuz they’re getting $10 in return and no one cares about 2 measly dollar bills cuz they have nothing to do with the trade. FYI $=pg.
maybe if I use numbers. The pacers want to trade $5 to the sixers for $10. Sixers decline. You say pacers can offer to trade that $5 because they have two $1. I’m saying pacers can offer $5 cuz they’re getting $10 in return and no one cares about 2 measly dollar bills cuz they have nothing to do with the trade. FYI $=pg.
You got me. Everyone else here who can read and comprehend what I posted was actually wrong. And the only who was wrong from the beginning and now arguing what I’m “implying” even though I posted twice what I meant, is actually right.
maybe if I use numbers. The pacers want to trade $5 to the sixers for $10. Sixers decline. You say pacers can offer to trade that $5 because they have two $1. I’m saying pacers can offer $5 cuz they’re getting $10 in return and no one cares about 2 measly dollar bills cuz they have nothing to do with the trade. FYI $=pg.
maybe if I use numbers. The pacers want to trade $5 to the sixers for $10. Sixers decline. You say pacers can offer to trade that $5 because they have two $1. I’m saying pacers can offer $5 cuz they’re getting $10 in return and no one cares about 2 measly dollar bills cuz they have nothing to do with the trade. FYI $=pg.
When I look at our team & roster, this is what comes to mind....
If Vivek is really not wanting to trade our win now vets and allow this team to pick up a future top 5 pick in hopes of acquiring that extra star power, then we really need to be swinging for the fences with these continuous late lottery picks we keep getting. If we don't, I easily see this team as a treadmill team until we eventually decide to tear it down again (and by that time, you'll likely need to move on from Fox and Haliburton).
I'm assuming Cunningham, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga, and Barnes will be gone by the time we pick. If either Moses Moody or Ziaire Williams are available when we pick, and we pass on them, I'd be pretty disappointed.
Not only could both players play SF next to Fox & Haliburton long term, but both have that star power potential in my opinion. They both have the potential to score, pass, handle, shoot, & defend while having good length, athleticism, & fluidity. Wings who have the potential to do all of those things can be special players
I have a hunch Moody will be gone before we pick which means Ziaire Williams would be my pick. I'm not surprised people are not as high on him as me. He didn't shoot the three well or score efficiently last year, but he also was displaced more than other players due to the Covid restrictions/policies Standard had to go through, had a death in the family during the season, and was battling injuries. He did show flashes of his potential throughout the year and measured well both physically and athletically at the combine by being 6'8.25" without shoes, 8'10.5" standing reach and a 6'10.25" wingspan. His lane agility, 3/4 sprint, standing vertical, & max vertical were all in the 90th percentile among SFs drafted in the past 22 seasons. His shuttle run was in the 70th percentile. He also still may be growing. He was listed at 6'7" as a senior in high school, 6'8" as a freshman in college, and then measured 6'9.75" in shoes.
His weight/strength is definitely a concern, but I also think his body is comparable to Ingram who has found success in the NBA. I'm not overly concerned about his weight/strength (especially in today's NBA) and think he'll improve there as he matures and gets older.
Lastly, Haliburton has taken Williams under his wing and has been mentoring him recently. They have a great relationship and the fact that Williams is connecting with Haliburton makes me think he's got good judgement and is dedicated to the game. I also think you'd probably have a great locker room and chemistry between Fox, Haliburton, & Williams not to mention it may put Williams in that mindset of wanting to play for Sacramento like Fox & Haliburton have openly stated.
I'm not denying that Williams is a bit of a risk at #9 but if Vivek is dead-set on trying to win with the current core/vets, I'd love to see the gamble on Williams to hopefully find that diamond in the rough star.
- We don't have enough star power for this team to eventually become a top team in the West
- We don't have enough assets to trade for that star power
- We likely won't have any top 5 picks in our future while keeping guys like Hield, Barnes, Holmes, etc. around to give us a very good shot at drafting that star power
- We likely will not be able to sign that star power in free agency (this is Sacramento after all)
If Vivek is really not wanting to trade our win now vets and allow this team to pick up a future top 5 pick in hopes of acquiring that extra star power, then we really need to be swinging for the fences with these continuous late lottery picks we keep getting. If we don't, I easily see this team as a treadmill team until we eventually decide to tear it down again (and by that time, you'll likely need to move on from Fox and Haliburton).
I'm assuming Cunningham, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga, and Barnes will be gone by the time we pick. If either Moses Moody or Ziaire Williams are available when we pick, and we pass on them, I'd be pretty disappointed.
Not only could both players play SF next to Fox & Haliburton long term, but both have that star power potential in my opinion. They both have the potential to score, pass, handle, shoot, & defend while having good length, athleticism, & fluidity. Wings who have the potential to do all of those things can be special players
I have a hunch Moody will be gone before we pick which means Ziaire Williams would be my pick. I'm not surprised people are not as high on him as me. He didn't shoot the three well or score efficiently last year, but he also was displaced more than other players due to the Covid restrictions/policies Standard had to go through, had a death in the family during the season, and was battling injuries. He did show flashes of his potential throughout the year and measured well both physically and athletically at the combine by being 6'8.25" without shoes, 8'10.5" standing reach and a 6'10.25" wingspan. His lane agility, 3/4 sprint, standing vertical, & max vertical were all in the 90th percentile among SFs drafted in the past 22 seasons. His shuttle run was in the 70th percentile. He also still may be growing. He was listed at 6'7" as a senior in high school, 6'8" as a freshman in college, and then measured 6'9.75" in shoes.
His weight/strength is definitely a concern, but I also think his body is comparable to Ingram who has found success in the NBA. I'm not overly concerned about his weight/strength (especially in today's NBA) and think he'll improve there as he matures and gets older.
Lastly, Haliburton has taken Williams under his wing and has been mentoring him recently. They have a great relationship and the fact that Williams is connecting with Haliburton makes me think he's got good judgement and is dedicated to the game. I also think you'd probably have a great locker room and chemistry between Fox, Haliburton, & Williams not to mention it may put Williams in that mindset of wanting to play for Sacramento like Fox & Haliburton have openly stated.
I'm not denying that Williams is a bit of a risk at #9 but if Vivek is dead-set on trying to win with the current core/vets, I'd love to see the gamble on Williams to hopefully find that diamond in the rough star.
Same here. If Holmes gets 20 million a year, then great for him. If I were the Kings, I wouldn't go over the $10 million a year we can offer right now.
Holmes is a nice piece, but for $20 million a year for a big, he needs to be able to shoot the 3 and/or be an elite rim protector., which Richaun is not.
Holmes is a nice piece, but for $20 million a year for a big, he needs to be able to shoot the 3 and/or be an elite rim protector., which Richaun is not.
You’re missing distribute and drive as well. His passes are mostly handoffs. Can count on one hand the times he passed to a cutting teammate or the times he powered to the hole by dribbling from his favorite push shot area.
As for his rim protection, some folks on here think he’s a much better rim protector than Whiteside was. So that’s a tough hill to climb for some. If he’s your starting 5, the team needs elite perimeter defenders to compensate for his turnstile defense in the paint.
People see the hustle and the production and fall in love with him. I get it, I like him too. But there’s a reason why the Kings played all time horrible defense last year and there’s a reason they didn’t make the playoffs with Holmes’ career best production. You can’t expect to be a playoff team when you got a backup starting at the 5 spot (and the 2 spot).
As for his rim protection, some folks on here think he’s a much better rim protector than Whiteside was. So that’s a tough hill to climb for some. If he’s your starting 5, the team needs elite perimeter defenders to compensate for his turnstile defense in the paint.
People see the hustle and the production and fall in love with him. I get it, I like him too. But there’s a reason why the Kings played all time horrible defense last year and there’s a reason they didn’t make the playoffs with Holmes’ career best production. You can’t expect to be a playoff team when you got a backup starting at the 5 spot (and the 2 spot).
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I don't think his defense is as bad as you're describing but I agree that it's going to be tough to go forward with Holmes as the starting 5.
Looking at the LEBRON metric, Whiteside was our best defender with Holmes 2nd and Delon Wright 3rd. To me, that agrees with what my eye saw. A lot of times these metrics are better to big men than they are to guards so Wright might actually technically be the best defender on the team.
When talking about players that played significant minutes, Haliburton is last on the team on defense with Buddy 2nd to last and Fox 3rd to last. There is also a fairly significant distance from the player ahead of Fox to Fox himself. It just goes to show how poor the defense from our guards was.
Without a step up in Hali's defense and/or elite offensive play like you see from Dame or Trae, the Kings probably don't have a chance with the current crop of guards. So if you swapped Holmes for say Capela, they'd be better but probably not playoffs better because the perimeter defense would still be a revolving door that Capela couldn't handle on his own.
Buddy needs to be traded. His contract may deter it so they might have to wait a year but he should be able to bring back something of value, whether it's role players or a mid first rounder. But the Kings aren't winning with him playing minutes. Not as long as Fox is around. In the future, the same decision may have to be made about Fox and Hali depending on how their games go. They just simply can't keep moving forward with terrible perimeter defense and non elite offensive play from the guards.
Looking at the LEBRON metric, Whiteside was our best defender with Holmes 2nd and Delon Wright 3rd. To me, that agrees with what my eye saw. A lot of times these metrics are better to big men than they are to guards so Wright might actually technically be the best defender on the team.
When talking about players that played significant minutes, Haliburton is last on the team on defense with Buddy 2nd to last and Fox 3rd to last. There is also a fairly significant distance from the player ahead of Fox to Fox himself. It just goes to show how poor the defense from our guards was.
Without a step up in Hali's defense and/or elite offensive play like you see from Dame or Trae, the Kings probably don't have a chance with the current crop of guards. So if you swapped Holmes for say Capela, they'd be better but probably not playoffs better because the perimeter defense would still be a revolving door that Capela couldn't handle on his own.
Buddy needs to be traded. His contract may deter it so they might have to wait a year but he should be able to bring back something of value, whether it's role players or a mid first rounder. But the Kings aren't winning with him playing minutes. Not as long as Fox is around. In the future, the same decision may have to be made about Fox and Hali depending on how their games go. They just simply can't keep moving forward with terrible perimeter defense and non elite offensive play from the guards.
Good post. I agree with everything.
I don’t think Holmes is a horrible defender. He’s the best switching big man on the Kings, which isn’t saying much in itself. The problem is, if the Kings comtinue to play the same defense with the same personnel, Holmes lack of length will continue to be an issue for the Kings. It’ll be a layup line, because the guards are poor defenders and don’t have the length to help or deter their man once they’re driving. Holmes, having moved out of his spot on switches or if he’s helping, just doesn’t have the length to recover and bother driving opponents.
And even if the Kings played a defense where they funneled players to him, there would certainly be much better options to play that role. Like Whiteside or Capela or Noel or…
Ultimately, if the Kings retain Holmes and start him, they would need to trade Buddy, get a few jumbo wings, and hope Fox and Hali take a big step forward. That’s a lot of moving parts for a player, who is best suited as a scoring, bench big. He has value and I like him, but certainlu not more than $10m per yr.
I don’t think Holmes is a horrible defender. He’s the best switching big man on the Kings, which isn’t saying much in itself. The problem is, if the Kings comtinue to play the same defense with the same personnel, Holmes lack of length will continue to be an issue for the Kings. It’ll be a layup line, because the guards are poor defenders and don’t have the length to help or deter their man once they’re driving. Holmes, having moved out of his spot on switches or if he’s helping, just doesn’t have the length to recover and bother driving opponents.
And even if the Kings played a defense where they funneled players to him, there would certainly be much better options to play that role. Like Whiteside or Capela or Noel or…
Ultimately, if the Kings retain Holmes and start him, they would need to trade Buddy, get a few jumbo wings, and hope Fox and Hali take a big step forward. That’s a lot of moving parts for a player, who is best suited as a scoring, bench big. He has value and I like him, but certainlu not more than $10m per yr.
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